let's demystify, shall we?

[Andrew Gubb]

I believe anyone can change, but maybe the question is better put, do they want to?

By the way, I'm not implying anyone here is a negative soul. Only I mixed up the concepts of negative souls and darkworkers.

[Andrew Gubb]

Hi guys.

So I had my holiday which definitely helped clear my mind a bit. I'm taking on work with a more grounded energy now, looking to move up a level in authenticity and real service rather than just airy theorising. (My work, for anyone who doesn't know, is my blog, and actually in part it's what I contribute on these forums, since I trust I can develop some connections through the people I serve with my ideas here).

What do I feel about all this now?

Definitely a bit remorseful about getting into all this drama. Not TOO remorseful, because at least in this case I won't beat myself up about being imperfect, but yeah a bit. Sorry for being incordial, Illustro Cado.

Seems to me as I was thinking about it that there are two kinds of darkworkers around. One is the darkworker who uses fear energy to get what fear tells him is necessary (total control of everything, immortality). The other is the one who focuses on self-love as defined by Asmoday. Maybe number 1 thinks he loves himself, but he's nuts because he doesn't know what he is to be able to love himself, and he doesn't know what love is either.

Trouble with Steve's writings I think is that he blended these two ideas when they have only a slight association with each other which is more to do with our culture than anything else I think.

Well, this is what I seem to be getting now.

When I went postal on poor Cado it definitely looked like I was unloading something unconscious using him as a projection. I don't know why I had to and why darkworkers were the object of this. Did I have some issue with darkworkers, something which as a term has for most of my life been pretty far outside my normal consciousness?

I guess our society is lightworker-biased. The idea is that service to others is better than service to self. It's judged and demonised in fact. As in, "Don't be selfish!!" - a common emotional manipulation tactic. Be labeled selfish, be bad, do what the other tells you to make up for it.

Did I have a fear of being selfish or something? Perhaps I did.............

Anyway I don't like how selfish and selfless has been painted in our world. I am happy because I am being my true self. Being my true self includes external service or expression and self-directed love and nurturing. I want to be happy, so I want to be myself. Or rather, unhappiness shows me I have gone off course - I want to be myself because that's my nature, pure and simple. That's kind of how I see it.

I've been reading Asmoday's site recently and it doesn't produce the fear or revulsion it did before now. It seems kind of intelligent, if possibly a bit mental-masturbation-style? I know I'm one to talk. Maybe it only seems that way because I still don't get why anyone would focus on self-love above love for others. It seems to me the ultimate self love is to go and express love freely until you're lost in it. The universe, our playground, is outwards, after all.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm getting sleepy. I think these concepts are all a bit dumb unless you can do something with them - which if they've served people to do so, then I say fine. As for me, all I know is that I'd kill myself right now if you told me I wouldn't be expressing love in my life. Then again I have a whole load of self-focused motivations too - being healthy and utterly joyful and happy and FREE. In the end I want to be ME, the deepest truest self I can be, and express that, do from being, and whether it's focused on the self or the outer world depends entirely on what is truest for me in that moment. Happiness comes from living what you are deep down. Greater happiness comes from living a deeper, truer truth. And you don't get there by looking for happiness, you get there because unhappiness has reminded you to be yourself again. And you just do that because that's how God made you.

Kinda some stream-of-consciousness I was inspired to write up. Going to bed now.

Love ya

Andrew

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

As for what I feel in your aura and what I have felt in Asmoday's aura -- well, I'm not saying my intuition is infallible. But I have felt that, I'm sorry. As I said, I've always assumed that dark is dark. Maybe I am missing a piece, we'll have to see - I keep my mind open.

Well my, my...LOL. As proud as I am to be synonymous with Darkworking at this point...I gotta ask...how did my Aura get dragged into all this?

And, at no time did I give you permission to feel up my Aura. I have to say, I feel quite violated. While not constituing Aura rape, it definitely suggests Aura-harassment. I demand a meeting with HR, and possibly a promotion, or at the least, a lucrative severance package.

LOL, just kidding, Andrew.

But, seriously, I do remember you showing up and giving me the psychic once-over. More importantly, I remember *when* it happened. A long time ago, you flirted briefly with Darkworking, and blogged on the topic. And, you were posting around here, claiming a seat as a Darkworking guru. Ironically, you and I got into it quite heavily over many issues, one of which being if a Darkworker would teach for non-exploitative reasons. I don't know if you did it purposely or not, but I think it was probably curiosity-driven.

We were in the middle of this...healthy debate, when you showed up and glared at me. It happened with Erin once too, but I think it was accidental, there was a hint of what I call dream-energy in her presence. I must say, her energy is very, very, very familiar to me, and, quite harmonically distinct. Very much so like...hmmm...like a field of strawberries, with a strong current of grounded matron energy.

In either case I had the same reaction both times. I felt it was rude. I "beared teeth" and pushed.

I also feel its not fair to judge me on that. It would be similarly unfair to think I'm a paranoid jerk if someone were to kick in my door, uninvinted and unannounced, and I were to toss them out on their behind...

But, I get it. Well, its better to say I've gotten used to it around here.

LOL, sigh.

Cado is, new, dedicated, and on fire. I admit, I don't know, nor care to know, the details of your conversations. Its true, he can be a little zealous, invasive, and pushy, if one wants to frame it in a negative way. But, its because ultimately, he wants the same thing you want. And, with all that fire, he will get it. He's also been, unfortunately, a pawn to the desires of others most of his life, and frankly, I'm proud to see him reaching out to himself. Its been an awesome journey, so far, for him and me. You have to understand, the two paths are two roads that lead, ultimately, to the same place. If you can't see the merging and blending taking place in Steve...you're blind at this point. Likewise, I am experiencing levels of unity and compassion that I thought were impossible on the Descent...

Surely, Lightworkers, you can see that you will inherently project your judgements of Darkworkers onto their auras, and the interactions you have with them, can't you?

I have tried, during my entire time on this forum, to have an open, honest, truthful, productive Dialouge with Lightworkers. To begin to bridge that gap.

I'm beginning to think it will never happen. I pause to wonder if that's the reality I will choose...

Its sad, though. Because, we are both part of the natural order. Try having earth without both Sun and Moon -- it just doesn't work.

And, we've got big problems in front of us, as a Nation, a society, a species, a planet.

The simple truth is, its going to take all of us, working together, to solve them.

[blossom]

I'm kinda proud of cado too, Asmoday. He looks great in a dress too

[Asmoday]

Originally Posted by blossom

I'm kinda proud of cado too, Asmoday. He looks great in a dress too

OMG!!! Wasn't that just pure, distilled, AWESOME?!?!?!

I suggested some comfort zone exercises, he did those like, "Too Easy, Drill Segeant", then, on his own, goes all NEXT LEVEL like that.

I laughed so hard, partially from funny, and partially from gleeful pride, that I briefly felt my colon invert.

He's a model Apprentice, he really is. If he sticks, and steps outside his brain and into his skin, he'll take the Throne....LOL, possibly before me. :-)

::tear:: I heart you, Cado. No homo. (LOLOLOLOL!!!!)

(BTW -- I have no issues with homosexuality, just to be clear, its an inside joke).

[blossom]

Yes, he surprised me with that one too...and I couldn't stop laughing either, (though my colon was not in danger of inverting)

In Australia we call people like him, Legends!

Originally Posted by Asmoday

OMG!!! Wasn't that just pure, distilled, AWESOME?!?!?!

I suggested some comfort zone exercises, he did those like, "Too Easy, Drill Segeant", then, on his own, goes all NEXT LEVEL like that.

I laughed so hard, partially from funny, and partially from gleeful pride, that I briefly felt my colon invert.

He's a model Apprentice, he really is. If he sticks, and steps outside his brain and into his skin, he'll take the Throne....LOL, possibly before me. :-)

::tear:: I heart you, Cado. No homo. (LOLOLOLOL!!!!)

(BTW -- I have no issues with homosexuality, just to be clear, its an inside joke).

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

::tear:: I heart you, Cado. No homo. (LOLOLOLOL!!!!)

Haha, no homo, man. We should probably chest bump before our testosterone gets too low.

Cado is, new, dedicated, and on fire. I admit, I don't know, nor care to know, the details of your conversations. Its true, he can be a little zealous, invasive, and pushy, if one wants to frame it in a negative way. But, its because ultimately, he wants the same thing you want. And, with all that fire, he will get it.

Since one of my natural tendencies is to wear my heart on my sleeve I'm gonna take this opportunity to indulge myself. All those negatives he listed off are indeed the inverse of what I consider my positive traits. When I am at my best I am an inspirer, when I am at my worst I am a tyrant. Now, nobody here has seen the latter-I've gotten much better about that through the years because I've been really aggressive about it-but I never tore the problem up by its root because I had an ass backwards approach to personal development. I was a guy headbutting a boulder while his inner voice screamed, "It's not moving! SLAM INTO IT HARDER!"

As I am so fond of saying, no one polarizes inside a vacuum. I am no exception. I want to step beyond my bs but I can't do it without interacting with a variety of people and giving them the opportunity to call me on my ****. Now, I don't necessarily know what my **** is at any given time. The issue I mentioned above is one thing that I was aware of but it's also something that I knew I wouldn't overcome unless I put myself in situations where I might get pushy. At it's core it was a lack of faith in myself and I've found the best way to deal with that is to throw myself into the fire and prove that, in spite of my doubts, I can do exactly as I mean to do or, if I falter, I will live through it and recover. (One of the most valuable lessons failure can teach is that the fallout is almost never as bad as you imagine it to be. IE, you have nothing to lose.)

So those were the internals at work on my end. When you consider what was going on in the people I was talking to and in the forum at large it's no surprise it culminated in this. I'm glad it didn't get blown out of proportion (I want to thank rei especially for approaching this with a level head) and I think if a bridge is to be established between the two sides this is a first step. Though it's clear to me that I won't understand lightworking as thoroughly as I'd like to we don't have to fully grasp each other's modality in order to establish a healthy rapport or, hell, to work together.

The divide doesn't have to stay there. It's up to each and every one of you to make the choice. All I know is one way or another I'm gonna tackle the problems we face. Why? Because I %^&$ing live here, dammit. Nobody rapes the earth on my watch.

-Cado

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

But, seriously, I do remember you showing up and giving me the psychic once-over. More importantly, I remember *when* it happened. A long time ago, you flirted briefly with Darkworking, and blogged on the topic. And, you were posting around here, claiming a seat as a Darkworking guru. Ironically, you and I got into it quite heavily over many issues, one of which being if a Darkworker would teach for non-exploitative reasons. I don't know if you did it purposely or not, but I think it was probably curiosity-driven.

We were in the middle of this...healthy debate, when you showed up and glared at me. It happened with Erin once too, but I think it was accidental, there was a hint of what I call dream-energy in her presence.

Hmmm...

To be honest I can't remember that episode very well. Did I want to be a darkworker guru? Hm, now that I think about it? I was a bit nuts back then. I won't disown my work but that's how I was. My negative tendency is def to think I know best.

In either case I had the same reaction both times. I felt it was rude. I "beared teeth" and pushed.

Well I admit I have /have had "boundary issues" with my psychic perception. Just don't control it very well I guess - not so aware of what I'm really doing with my energetic tendrils. It rebounds on me actually because I end up picking up people's "stuff" by doing that. Not smart. So, uh, sorry. Maybe this happened the last time I tried to read you too, which was quite a lot more recently.

Whatever I was getting back then I don't really feel with you now, anyway. You have a strange energy for me but not a seriously discordant one anymore. I hope I'm not going too deep this time?

If you can't see the merging and blending taking place in Steve...you're blind at this point. Likewise, I am experiencing levels of unity and compassion that I thought were impossible on the Descent...

Duh. Now when is Steve going to move on from women and dominate MY arse?

Surely, Lightworkers, you can see that you will inherently project your judgements of Darkworkers onto their auras, and the interactions you have with them, can't you?

Yeah, point taken...

The simple truth is, its going to take all of us, working together, to solve them.

[Andrew Gubb]

As I am so fond of saying, no one polarizes inside a vacuum. I am no exception. I want to step beyond my bs but I can't do it without interacting with a variety of people and giving them the opportunity to call me on my ****. Now, I don't necessarily know what my **** is at any given time. The issue I mentioned above is one thing that I was aware of but it's also something that I knew I wouldn't overcome unless I put myself in situations where I might get pushy. At it's core it was a lack of faith in myself and I've found the best way to deal with that is to throw myself into the fire and prove that, in spite of my doubts, I can do exactly as I mean to do or, if I falter, I will live through it and recover. (One of the most valuable lessons failure can teach is that the fallout is almost never as bad as you imagine it to be. IE, you have nothing to lose.)

Kudos on doing this, Illustro. I remember you read "On Becoming an Alchemist" too? Alchemy is one of my preferred styles of self-development too

Love

Andrew

[Plato]

This thread could not be more mystifying.

[rei]

Asmoday,

thanks for contributing here. i can see how understanding has increased recently.

i am a lightworker who willingly converses with darkworkers, who would like to raise awareness of the similarities (or at least acknowledge them instead of viewing this dynamic as an adversarial one or one that provokes fear/discomfort/unsettling vibes/etc.) and contribute to a sense of respect all around.

so, if you're still interested in talking with lightworkers, i'm down. but if you're more interested in speaking to someone you can convince about the acceptability of your path, i may not be a good candidate as i have never judged the type of darkworking discussed here.

as far as i know - Cado can confirm or deny as applicable - i don't project my darkness onto darkworkers. or, maybe i do, but i am comfortable with my darkness so it doesn't have the same charge that often comes up in that situation.

i work with death as part of my lightworking role, maybe that has something to do with it. death is in the realm of the shadows.

anyway, glad you spoke here. and glad Andrew accepted responsibility for reading you without your permission.

(however, about that... maybe Andrew's process is different, but for me, i don't sense anything that isn't being transmitted outward. so whatever i pick up from others, i don't get it by invading their energetic privacy. i get it because they are sending it outward. i can still understand how some folks would find this invasive, though. and not every energy-conscious individual would describe it this way.)

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Seems to me as I was thinking about it that there are two kinds of darkworkers around. One is the darkworker who uses fear energy to get what fear tells him is necessary (total control of everything, immortality). The other is the one who focuses on self-love as defined by Asmoday. Maybe number 1 thinks he loves himself, but he's nuts because he doesn't know what he is to be able to love himself, and he doesn't know what love is either.

It's like I told a friend of mine: **** narcissists. Those posers wouldn't know how to love themselves if Hugh Hefner gave 'em a how-to guide.

On a random note: should I be concerned that I suddenly like Lady Gaga?

Oh the crazy things PD will do to ya.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by rei

as far as i know - Cado can confirm or deny as applicable - i don't project my darkness onto darkworkers. or, maybe i do, but i am comfortable with my darkness so it doesn't have the same charge that often comes up in that situation.

Ah yeah, one last thing of note-she's right, I don't get the sense that she projects onto darkworkers. If she did this would have gotten a lot more interesting.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Ah yeah, one last thing of note-she's right, I don't get the sense that she projects onto darkworkers. If she did this would have gotten a lot more interesting.

dangit, Cado!!!

you are way too considerate, diplomatic, and ethical! blarg! it drives me craaaaaazy!!!

too friggin' respectful too!

[Cado]

Originally Posted by rei

dangit, Cado!!!

you are way too considerate, diplomatic, and ethical! blarg! it drives me craaaaaazy!!!

too friggin' respectful too!

It does drive you crazy, doesn't it?

Tell you what, here's my number. You go ahead and give me a call.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

It does drive you crazy, doesn't it?

Tell you what, here's my number. You go ahead and give me a call.

lol - talk about no homo

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Duh. Now when is Steve going to move on from women and dominate MY arse?

Here comes the Cado train, baby! WOO WOO!

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Here comes the Cado train, baby! WOO WOO!

I have a lady but if I ever need a new lady I'll give you a call

[Andrew Gubb]

Oh, not to derail this jubilation but had a serious thought for the discussion

My lady was saying to me before that she thought maybe I had this reaction to Cado because of where I am right now in life:

I'm wanting very much to give, give, give but currently I need to focus on recieving for the moment. I don't have the sort of stability I would like (quite uncomfortable in the current situation I'm in) and so I really need to work on a financial base to free me up. And even THEN it's so that I can go and find myself through interactions with other high-level people and doing some serious spiritual development. Though I have a message to give now, I feel that my destiny or calling is to find a deeper place from which to express myself. Can feel quite strongly the general way in which the currents of life are pulling me. Actually my psychic counsellor & friend Chris Landry told me this: "The next three to five years are all about you."

So all this is inward-focusing stuff which I'm doing for the sake of being able to give of myself to the world. Or I'm doing it just because I feel drawn by the currents of life and I don't question it much more than that, I know God knows what I want and he's taking me there, though I know I'm happy when I'm giving and this frustrates me.

So I guess this whole issue was about that issue with myself, that I had to accept inflow for me. An' maybe I judged it or something.

Blah.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by rei

(however, about that... maybe Andrew's process is different, but for me, i don't sense anything that isn't being transmitted outward.

Yeah, but for some reason I have the unconscious tendency to look too deep into people. (Some people have things they don't want to transmit, well I think all of us choose not to get "naked" energetically with any old stranger and let them know everything). Actually I don't feel like I learn much about them, it's quite unconscious so often I just end up picking up their emotions and hidden energetic gunk and messing my own aura up.

I don't know where that tendency in me is from. It can be quite intimidating.

I have a feeling it may have something to do with fear of my own power, as when I'm resting in my own body and not overprojecting myself I feel my energy as being very large and that isn't something I feel quite comfortable with, having a self image or an experience that doesn't fit with that.

Something like that I think. TBH I'm still working through this.

Love to you sis'

Andrew

[rei]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Yeah, but for some reason I have the unconscious tendency to look too deep into people. (Some people have things they don't want to transmit, well I think all of us choose not to get "naked" energetically with any old stranger and let them know everything). Actually I don't feel like I learn much about them, it's quite unconscious so often I just end up picking up their emotions and hidden energetic gunk and messing my own aura up.

I don't know where that tendency in me is from. It can be quite intimidating.

I have a feeling it may have something to do with fear of my own power, as when I'm resting in my own body and not overprojecting myself I feel my energy as being very large and that isn't something I feel quite comfortable with, having a self image or an experience that doesn't fit with that.

Something like that I think. TBH I'm still working through this.

Love to you sis'

Andrew

oh, i understand this. i've had plenty of folks communicate, in one way or another, that i picked up on something they didn't want ANYBODY knowing about. even though they were transmitting it.

i have not ever liked the look on someone's face when that happens, so i have made a habit of being very gentle if i respond to anything i sense, and i generally don't discuss what i feel from someone unless they specifically invite me to in some direct verbal way.

another reason i don't discuss it is because i got tired of someone getting defensive about it, or denying it. only one person in my life who regularly said, 'nope, you're wrong.' out of all the people who did validate, i came to be confident in this ability, but i still don't like it when someone gets all defensive about it (even if i do totally understand). and there are still times where i only think i sense something, where i'm projecting. it can take some time to sort it out, but a good rule of thumb i have found is if there is any urgency to respond about the energy, it is a good idea to not respond and to explore on my own why i feel that urgency.

i may respond to what i feel from them, but i don't discuss it directly. it can feel very invasive, and i've been on the receiving end of someone communicating about a feeling i was trying to hide, so i understand how uncomfortable that can be.

honestly, Andrew, i wonder if you do this because you enjoy proving that you can? something like that... it's a thought, maybe not accurate, but something to think about?

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by rei

honestly, Andrew, i wonder if you do this because you enjoy proving that you can? something like that... it's a thought, maybe not accurate, but something to think about?

I have no idea why I do it, and as I said, I don't really pick up that much information at least, not consciously. I don't know their secrets or anything. In general I know what a person is inside, but I don't pick up details and I don't care to.

I don't know what I'm doing, except that I have a way of looking at people that is very "piercing" and I don't know why. And a psychic friend of mine told me she saw me going too deep into people. Maybe I'm not? It could have been indeed her projection. All I know is yeah, I tend to go too deep... jump into people with my awareness and get mixed up with their stuff... like I can't stay rooted in my own body. Something like that.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

I have no idea why I do it, and as I said, I don't really pick up that much information at least, not consciously. I don't know their secrets or anything. In general I know what a person is inside, but I don't pick up details and I don't care to.

I think you already gave a why. It sounds like you're unconsciously going out of your way to dampen your energy because you're afraid of your own power. Think about the payoff: you get to stay where you are while still feeling like you're ahead of the curve. That's probably not something you'd consider a "payoff" but the thing to keep in mind is that every behavior is self-maximizing in some way otherwise you'd feel no compulsion toward it. Plus, if you're still feeling angry and vulnerable on some level it could be a defense mechanism. It's likely you began doing it because you wanted to put yourself on an even playing field with those who had victimized you.

Does that sound about right?

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

I think you already gave a why. It sounds like you're unconsciously going out of your way to dampen your energy because you're afraid of your own power. Think about the payoff: you get to stay where you are while still feeling like you're ahead of the curve. That's probably not something you'd consider a "payoff" but the thing to keep in mind is that every behavior is self-maximizing in some way otherwise you'd feel no compulsion toward it. Plus, if you're still feeling angry and vulnerable on some level it could be a defense mechanism. It's likely you began doing it because you wanted to put yourself on an even playing field with those who had victimized you.

Does that sound about right?

Definitely something like that. I'll be on the lookout for any more messages from my subconscious about this issue now we've been digging it up.

Recently I was sorting through my intentions to get financially free - after that recent blog post of Steve's where he outlines the process of accepting the consequences of what you choose to create - and I realised one of the consequences I hadn't been ready to accept yet was that I wouldn't be able to feel like a victim if I were financially free and out of the "System" as I call it.

I still feel that resistence there now. Reckon it might take quite a bit more focused effort to budge it. Maybe some more primal scream therapy is called for...

...in panties.


***

Thinking about the money issue again, yeah I definitely get that maybe I've been self-sabotaging with my product ideas because of anger.

In the end, fear of my own power. Fear that I am strong enough to be no-one's victim. Strong enough to create all my life circumstances. Fear of responsibility and being more huge, incredible and amazing than I can possibly imagine. Fear of making massive change for the better in the world like I feel in my bones I was born to do. Fear of being everything I wanted to be but which everyone told me I couldn't be because they didn't want to be outshined.

And I guess what I need is not to outshine anyone but let others shine more in my presence. Not resist those who resist me but simply play a different game; the win-win game instead of the win-lose struggle.

Wow.... feels......... big.

[Cado]

Hey Andrew, you might remember that I suggested collaging a while back. If you haven't done it I still think you'd see some pretty big benefits from it. That's one of those things I think anybody on any path can benefit from because there will always be a time when they have to do some heavy duty introspection.