Do lightworkers ever tire of giving?

[Tren]

Polarity is a new idea to me. I am learning.

Oddly, I find that I am repelled by the idea of darkworking because from what I read, it is completely and utterly self absorbed. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Though, I don't find myself drawn to lightworking as I know what it is to contantly give of yourself. I also know my eventual reaction to that which is drained and dangerously close to resentful. You cannot keep withdrawning without making a deposit at some point.

I enjoy giving to others. I feel good about being able to help people. But I also enjoy what I get from that. Do lightworkers feel gratification for playing a role or is that ego saying yeah *I* did that.

After some thought provoking conversation with rei (thank you friend) I wonder if the burdened feelings that have come up now and then for me can simply be cleansed.

A situation comes to mind. I felt broken. a friend messaged asking how my day had been. I broke. I recall saying that I wasn't strong enough to carry everyone and all of their stuff anymore. Something about that has stayed with me.

Is it possible for a lightworker to break from too much giving?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Tren

Is it possible for a lightworker to break from too much giving?

If you're giving so much to others that you're drained, you're not polarizing, and you are not being a lightworker.

Lightworking is not about sacrificing the health of the self for the health of the whole. One must effectively care for the self in order to be an effective contributor to the health of the whole.

If you're not protecting and preserving your own avatar, you're detracting from the health of the whole organism, and that's not lightworking. (Not usually, anyway. There are instances when self-sacrifice might be lightworking -- but they're pretty few and far between, not the normal modus operandi.)

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Tren

Oddly, I find that I am repelled by the idea of darkworking because from what I read, it is completely and utterly self absorbed. Please correct me if I am wrong.

No one polarizes inside a vacuum. Darkworkers are just as capable of giving to charity and doing good deeds as anyone else, they just admit that there is a selfish aspect to it and indeed that it's their primary motivation.

The Asmoday Experiment explains things in much greater detail. The latest article should give you a good idea of what it's really about.

[rei]

you are welcome, dear friend

i agree with Angela's response. lightworking is not about putting others' needs above your own. rather than talk about service-to-others (which does indeed give that impression), i prefer to talk in terms of service-to-all. it is about meeting your own needs as well as those of others, and not putting the one above the other to the point where the needs of the secondary focus aren't being met. at least, that is how i understand lightworking. self-care is not the same as being self-centered. it's being as generous with the self as you are with others. it's about knowing that, if you use the self as an instrument to assist the collective, the instrument needs regular tuning and maintenance as well - and knowing you deserve to make that effort. because you're worth as much love/satisfaction/contentment as anyone you help.

[blossom]

From how you describe it here, it makes me think that the only difference between lightworkers and darkworkers is that darkworkers ADMIT that they are helping someone because it makes them feel good. Lightworkers feel good when they help others but they say that it is for the other persons benefit...though really it's a bit of both! Does that mean that darkworkers are just more honest than lightworkers in this way?

I know I sound cynical, but I can't help thinking that everyone does what they do for their own benefit in some way, even if it is helping others at the same time. It's called win/win. I like rei's description of lightworkers. Caring for yourself first is the only way you can have enough to give to others. People who give everything to others and never care for themselves aren't doing anyone any good really, and they are saying that other peoples needs are more important than their own, which isn't true. Neither is it true that your own needs are more important than other peoples. That's unrealistic, selfish thinking.

Truly selfless acts are pretty rare, aren't they? I can think of some scenarios now that I know of, but not many.

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

No one polarizes inside a vacuum. Darkworkers are just as capable of giving to charity and doing good deeds as anyone else, they just admit that there is a selfish aspect to it and indeed that it's their primary motivation.

The Asmoday Experiment explains things in much greater detail. The latest article should give you a good idea of what it's really about.

[Tren]

Compeltely agree. I say that you need to take care of you first as you cannot give something you don't have. Guess I wasn't taking care of myself the way I thought I was.

Why is it so hard for me to admit that I may be leaning toward darkwork? I cannot really continue to make judgement calls until I experience.

It about reality for each person yes? If one sees themselves a certain way that is exactly who they are/become regardless of dark/light.

The Asmoday Experiment explains things in much greater detail. The latest article should give you a good idea of what it's really about.

This site was very informative and as a bonus made me laugh a lot. It also made me cringe a couple of times. Some of the superfun things darkworkers get to do (by default?) seem less than appealing.

@Angela, I have never polarized. I thought I should gather information first but it seems to me that I have all of the info. Its just about making a choice and following thru.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by blossom

snip

Keep in mind it was a brief summary. Light and dark are very similar when you get to brass tacks. They differ mainly in their alignment and their methods. In practice they do a lot of the same things and in some cases pursue the same ends. Oneness, for instance, is something I thought a darkworker had to completely abandon to polarize successfully, but I've delved a little deeper and I've found there are LHPers whose end is cosmic oneness. Personally I hold the same stance I always have-we're all made of the same basic stuff and we're all divine but it doesn't mean we're one-though it is a stance based on what can be considered a misunderstanding of oneness. It's so vague a concept that it can mean many, many things. If it serves my ends, indeed if it is to become my end, something will have to trigger that internal shift. It won't come by thinking on it and I'm done trying to force paradigm shifts through thought. (Rather crystallized thought energy.)

Getting back on topic, I've recently come to understand how little I can know about the other side of the coin as I align myself with this one, but on a purely academic basis I don't think there's anything to stop a lightworker from seeing a selfish motive behind every selfless action. They're still not going to see it the same way a darkworker does. It's a question of emphasis. Win/win scenarios aren't unique to either path, in fact that's what you'll aim for if you've achieved a healthy polarization. Win/lose is for victims. Indeed, even when a darkworker is wrathful there aren't any losers if the other party learns from it.

Aside from that, there's little I can say here that I haven't said elsewhere. I think you're at the point where your intellect can't take you any further and the only way to go deeper is to polarize one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Tren

This site was very informative and as a bonus made me laugh a lot. It also made me cringe a couple of times. Some of the superfun things darkworkers get to do (by default?) seem less than appealing.

I can't tell you whether it's intrinsic to the path unless I know specifically what you're talking about. I will say that it's not for everyone but I'd add that both sides have their difficulties and in the end it comes down to nature and choice.

By nature I'm not implying anyone is born a lightworker or a darkworker, rather we all have our inclinations and it's common to feel a pull in one direction or the other. Even so, you can choose either one, you've just got to make sure you're not working against yourself.

EDIT:

Why is it so hard for me to admit that I may be leaning toward darkwork? I cannot really continue to make judgement calls until I experience.

Darkness has a nasty stigma leveled against it. What's really funny is that society decries selfishness yet a lot of people are selfish and shortsighted to a fault. What they fail to recognize is that it's their shortsightedness which is the problem, but none of that really matters if they can get high off of self-righteousness.

That's gonna sound pretty cynical to a lot of people. It might even sound cynical to you. Me, I'm not looking down on humanity as a whole, not in the sense that I'd prejudge somebody without having listened or spoken to them. I'm acknowledging something I observed a long time ago and, instead of fighting that realization, I'm leveraging it in service of my desires. Denial is when you paint a rosy picture when that's not how you feel. Cynicism is when you resign yourself to living a crappy life in a crappy world. Leverage is based on accurate observations of reality which then yield rewards. Remember, in this case 'accurate' means 'gets results.'

This is one thing where I think I can say, with a fair amount of accuracy, where light and dark differ. Lightworkers will always try to reach out to the best in someone even when they have to fight. If threatened with violence a lightworker will defend themselves, even kill if they have to, but they won't let themselves lose sight of the ideal nature underlying the other person's veneer. Though the rosy picture they paint may seem delusional to outsiders, it isn't as they really see things that way. They're focused on what's under the surface and not how people are acting out.

A darkworker, on the other hand, will not reach out to an aggressor unless they feel so inclined. Everybody makes their choices. By pulling a knife on me my opponent has forsaken his right to live and so I will use any means necessary to end the attack. I'm not focused on his underlying nature, only on my own divinity and survival. This doesn't mean I wouldn't reach out after the danger has passed but I don't have to. In fact, I've already provided an object lesson. I daresay if he wouldn't stop and reflect upon his actions and what led him there that night there's little I could say or do to snap him out of it.

Real life rarely features such extreme situations so let's put that in practical terms. Do I think someone is worth my time? If yes I test the waters, if no I walk away and don't give it another thought. I've no duty to help anyone but I often will because I'm a pretty swell guy.

I don't know exactly how a lightworker would approach it but I know their time is limited so they ultimately have to pick and choose who they help as well. Some people sleep more soundly than the dead; you won't get much done if you zero in on them. My thoughts on the matter are they won't rouse from their slumber unless you put a stick of dynamite in their bed and I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy doing exactly that.

The only way to know what'll work for you is to give it a shot.

[rei]

i would like to add, i think Steve and others' conception of lightwork/darkwork is DIFFERENT in a few important ways from the new agey concepts.

i don't equate this version of darkwork with doing "evil" or stealing light - which is the generic, watered-down version of the new agey idea. it's about where you draw power, from serving self primarily or serving others/self primarily. it is not "dark" in the sense of "bad/wrong/evil."

now, Illustro Cado (still so curious to know what that name means) may object to my understanding here. but i don't think this notion of light/dark has the same metaphysical, adversarial, epic-battle charge as the way those words are thrown around in spiritual/New Age circles.

in other words, Tren, i don't **at all* think you would be bad/wrong/evil/etc. if you choose to be a darkworker. in case that relates to your hesitation, in my understanding it is not about evil. it's about love of yourself/your power over the power of love.

but i also don't think it's possible to be focused on the one without the other coming to you as well. so, i don't think a darkworker can build power without building love (though that love may be focused on the individual self). and i don't think a lightworker can build love without building power (though that power might be channeled into ways that will seem to benefit the collective self+others).

HTH

@Illustro Cado: i think it's funny that you paint such a picture of lightworkers, as if we're all spineless victims who will say to someone who violates our boundaries, "thank you, can i have some more?" i think that is a bit simplified. i've known lightworkers who are like that, yes. but i think that is less about lightworking and more about internal issues that lead to poor assertiveness.

there's also lightworkers who will have no problem with asserting themselves when their boundaries are crossed... who may come from an attitude of, 'don't mistake kindness for weakness.' it's true that we see the good in people, or do our best to, but i don't think it necessarily means we become punching bags. also, there have been a small number of times in my life where i didn't see much light in the core of a person. i left space to be wrong, but i saw what i saw. in those situations, i took action. don't know if i could describe it as reaching out. then again, this relates to my value for matching the surface with the underlying persona. these were mostly false prophet types.

but i will admit i may have misunderstood you.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by rei

@Illustro Cado: i think it's funny that you paint such a picture of lightworkers, as if we're all spineless victims who will say to someone who violates our boundaries, "thank you, can i have some more?" i think that is a bit simplified. i've known lightworkers who are like that, yes. but i think that is less about lightworking and more about internal issues that lead to poor assertiveness.

there's also lightworkers who will have no problem with asserting themselves when their boundaries are crossed... who may come from an attitude of, 'don't mistake kindness for weakness.' it's true that we see the good in people, or do our best to, but i don't think it necessarily means we become punching bags.

Huh? Where did I paint lightworkers as spineless? As I recall I specifically said they'd defend themselves when necessary, they wouldn't let other people be a drain on their time... Honestly I'm at a loss for where you got this.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Huh? Where did I paint lightworkers as spineless? As I recall I specifically said they'd defend themselves when necessary, they wouldn't let other people be a drain on their time... Honestly I'm at a loss for where you got this.

like i said in my edit, i may have misunderstood.

it sounded to me like saying a lightworker will focus on seeing the good and on reaching out is also very likely to result in that person being a willing victim. as if that person will have infinite patience with someone who doesn't respect their boundaries at all. and then, if it escalates to physical violence, the lightworker will defend him/herself, but up to that point the lightworker thinks, 'if only i continue seeing the good and ideal in this person, it becomes okay if this person violates my boundaries.'

like i said, i've known lightworkers who operate that way, but not all of them do. and maybe i misunderstood your point.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by rei

like i said, i've known lightworkers who operate that way, but not all of them do. and maybe i misunderstood your point.

The lightworkers who operate like that are bloody insane. Many times they're not even lightworkers, they're doormats playing at being lightworkers. I know lightworkers often have problems regarding personal power but damn.

I'm one of those LHPers who thinks the RHP is just as valid and that we'd actually benefit from cooperating if enough of us would get our heads out of our collective asses so if I say something which really translates to, "lightworkers are a bunch of *******" you can rest assured it was unintentional and that I'll correct it if it's pointed out.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Tren

Polarity is a new idea to me. I am learning.

Oddly, I find that I am repelled by the idea of darkworking because from what I read, it is completely and utterly self absorbed. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, they are. That is indeed the point. If you don't feel like worshipping yourself like a God don't be a darkworker.

Though, I don't find myself drawn to lightworking as I know what it is to contantly give of yourself. I also know my eventual reaction to that which is drained and dangerously close to resentful. You cannot keep withdrawning without making a deposit at some point.

I enjoy giving to others. I feel good about being able to help people. But I also enjoy what I get from that. Do lightworkers feel gratification for playing a role or is that ego saying yeah *I* did that.

After some thought provoking conversation with rei (thank you friend) I wonder if the burdened feelings that have come up now and then for me can simply be cleansed.

A situation comes to mind. I felt broken. a friend messaged asking how my day had been. I broke. I recall saying that I wasn't strong enough to carry everyone and all of their stuff anymore. Something about that has stayed with me.

Is it possible for a lightworker to break from too much giving?

I think it's not about too much giving - it's about giving in an imbalanced way. We're MADE to radiate energy out of us, that's kind of what humans are for, unless they're infected with dark energy. I don't think you can run out of energy exactly.

I do think you need to be able to accept energy back - even require people to respect your energy and take it seriously (ex. you sell a healing service that changes lives - but you want to help people more and put a silly price on it - no-one respects you because it seems you don't respect yourself, and no-one WANTS it).

You also don't want to carry people on your back. You can't attach yourself to the outcome, you're about sending light out but when it's out there you can no longer control it, have the best wishes but don't try and live other people's lives for them. Jesus could have healed every single person in the world with a snap of his fingers but he waited until people ASKED for it - he wasn't going to step into people's personal space without an invitation.

By the way, I have the sense that darkworkers like to make people believe that the dark isn't dark. Don't listen to much too the words when they try and tempt you, OK? Listen to what their heart is saying. A lightworker's heart communicates joy, simplicity and love - a darkworker's feels just like heaviness and pain to me.

Steve mentioned in a post that when a person decides to fully polarise, the other side sends a servant to try and tempt you away from your path - it's a test to see how sure you are. I've experienced this myself. So just listen to your heart and the heart of anyone who talks to you, and you can't go wrong.

Frodo: "I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer, but feel fouler"

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

By the way, I have the sense that darkworkers like to make people believe that the dark isn't dark. Don't listen to much too the words when they try and tempt you, OK? Listen to what their heart is saying. A lightworker's heart communicates joy, simplicity and love - a darkworker's feels just like heaviness and pain to me.

Depends on how you define dark. I'd never say dark isn't dark, I would say dark is not what many think it is.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

The lightworkers who operate like that are bloody insane. Many times they're not even lightworkers, they're doormats playing at being lightworkers. I know lightworkers often have problems regarding personal power but damn.

I'm one of those LHPers who thinks the RHP is just as valid and that we'd actually benefit from cooperating if enough of us would get our heads out of our collective asses so if I say something which really translates to, "lightworkers are a bunch of *******" you can rest assured it was unintentional and that I'll correct it if it's pointed out.

LHP and RHP?

i have always noticed how much respect you offer for those who are on the opposite end of the spectrum, so i did think it was a little odd that you seemed to be implying lightworkers are spineless. just checked to be sure it was clear that i didn't believe you USUALLY paint that picture - i could have probably been clearer in saying so, and i correct it now. i know you aren't usually working from such a perspective. hopefully on my second post to you, you could see where i was coming from in thinking you were framing it that way.

oh, and i agree - wouldn't call it "insane", but i do think some folks with personal power issues put on the lightworker hat as an excuse to avoid owning their power better. i don't wish to judge them for it, but i've also seen it happen. shoot, i've even scared myself with the level of power i have, and wasn't sure i could be ethical/responsible with it. but the few times i got crap for being considerate, i wasn't a repeat customer. just because you want to see the world become your ideal, that does not mean you must accept mistreatment. you can stand up for yourself and still be a lightworker, and since some folks WILL mistake kindness for weakness, i recommend assertiveness as a necessary counterpart to lightworking - in my experience, sooner or later, lightworkers will need to assert themselves. this can be done with great love. 'specially if you consider that you deserve all the lovely things you wish to share with others.

[rei]

Andrew, it sounds like you and i don't share the opinion that Steve's and Illustro's notion of darkworking is different from the new agey notion. is that correct?

i don't really believe Source cares which one you choose, in terms of this type of darkworking. i bet that statement may have surprised you eh? you think i'm confused, misguided, or pretending to be a lightworker? (just asking, not assuming so.)

there is a difference between choosing to focus on power/love of self and choosing to intentionally harm others. but if Source loves unconditionally, then we are loved whether we polarize or not, and loved no matter which side we choose. (granted, there MAY be other side effects of polarizing, but i don't think they involve punishment. do you disagree?)

[Cado]

Originally Posted by rei

LHP and RHP?

Left hand path and right hand path.

i have always noticed how much respect you offer for those who are on the opposite end of the spectrum, so i did think it was a little odd that you seemed to be implying lightworkers are spineless. just checked to be sure it was clear that i didn't believe you USUALLY paint that picture - i could have probably been clearer in saying so, and i correct it now.

Fair enough. No hard feelings.

oh, and i agree - wouldn't call it "insane", but i do think some folks with personal power issues put on the lightworker hat as an excuse to avoid owning their power better. i don't wish to judge them for it, but i've also seen it happen.

Alas, it is all too common, just as it's much too common to see darkworkers become animalistic or psychopathic. There are very real pitfalls on either road. It's not easy no matter who you are.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Left hand path and right hand path.



Fair enough. No hard feelings.



Alas, it is all too common, just as it's much too common to see darkworkers become animalistic or psychopathic. There are very real pitfalls on either road. It's not easy no matter who you are.

ah, we're such a great example of the two sides playing well together

and thanks for explaining the abbreviations. as a STA southpaw, i find them a little ironic...

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by rei

Andrew, it sounds like you and i don't share the opinion that Steve's and Illustro's notion of darkworking is different from the new agey notion. is that correct?

i don't really believe Source cares which one you choose, in terms of this type of darkworking. i bet that statement may have surprised you eh? you think i'm confused, misguided, or pretending to be a lightworker? (just asking, not assuming so.)

there is a difference between choosing to focus on power/love of self and choosing to intentionally harm others. but if Source loves unconditionally, then we are loved whether we polarize or not, and loved no matter which side we choose. (granted, there MAY be other side effects of polarizing, but i don't think they involve punishment. do you disagree?)

Rei I'm not like a fundamentalist christian and I don't buy any "standard" views of light vs. dark. This is a viewpoint I have been evolving based on experience and intuition more than anything... and mashing together perspectives using experience and intuition as the catalyst to make a coherent map out of them.

Source loves everybody, because everybody is Source. Only some people choose to forget they are Source. It is THEY who suffer and THEY who have chosen pain. Source also feels the pain that they feel, though I'm sure it has comfort in the knowledge that no-one denies God forever, just like someone who tries to deny gravity is eventually going to have to wise up.

I feel a pain when dealing with Ilustro and I felt a lot better when I decided to stop talking with him. I don't mean this in the sense that I hate him, I accept him and love him - but I don't feel like validating his words or his actions, or his way of being. I don't believe darkworking is a path that will advance us towards the highest good of all. I believe it has its place, but it has the same place as any other form of suffering and confusion - a part of the beautiful tapestry of life that is there to serve as the counterpoint to our desires to live as we truly are.

Cado & Steve's notion of darkworking is NOT just about focusing on power over love. That in itself is a philosophy, and you probably get that philosophies are only as good as what you do with them. Darkworking and lightworking are both their respective philosophies + energy. The energy is either fear or love - inflow or outflow - defense/attack or peace - belief in separate God-self or belief in interconnected oneness. Note that these are all words (the philosophy component) but they are aiming to point at an energy component. No words can BE energy but they can attempt to direct you to feeling that energy for yourself.

I find myself at odds with Cado nowadays because I think he's trying to whitewash darkworking - plainly, because he wants to bring more darkworkers into the world. Darkworking is fine in a way - in that no-one can tell you what you should or shouldn't do - and in that way I defend the idea that darkworking is a "valid" path. In all other ways though I feel obliged to speak up against it. Fear is addictive and seductive, but in the end all it creates is pain. Pain itself is disconnection from God, from divine truth. If you let yourself be possessed by the dark you'll not feel the pain because it will have blinded your senses, but one day you'll wake up and have to face what you've done.

I don't believe darkworking is exactly the same as "evil". Most darkworkers come to the conclusion quickly that excessive self-indulgence or violent/uncouth tactics aren't helpful for their cause. But the darkness does have a sort of intelligence of its own - I don't like giving it a name or a self because this invites fear, and I don't think it really IS anything, but it has the illusion of an intelligence - and darkness wants to create more darkness.

This is what a darkworker does. He chooses to serve the cause of darkness - and is transformed by the darkness.

Just like someone who chooses to serve the light is transformed by the light.

It's your choice. I can't choose for anyone but I know what I'd advise them - every single damn time.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Cado & Steve's notion of darkworking is NOT just about focusing on power over love. That in itself is a philosophy, and you probably get that philosophies are only as good as what you do with them. Darkworking and lightworking are both their respective philosophies + energy. The energy is either fear or love - inflow or outflow - defense/attack or peace - belief in separate God-self or belief in interconnected oneness. Note that these are all words (the philosophy component) but they are aiming to point at an energy component. No words can BE energy but they can attempt to direct you to feeling that energy for yourself.

There's nothing to whitewash; it's not fear based. Yeah, we use fear and we use it consciously. So do lightworkers. Fear is something both sides use in almost exactly the same way-as a shot in the arm when nothing else will motivate. You might be afraid of doing others a disservice by acting or not acting, I fear sitting back and letting my life pass me by without fulfilling my potential. Same thing, different focus.

Where we start to differ is that I'm not afraid of being wrathful, though again it's not going to look that different on the outside because I'll get wrathful at a lot of the same things that would make you angry, it would just be for different reasons. There's no stopping a lightworker from kicking ass and even using intimidation, again it's a case of differing motivations. A lightworker might do it because they don't want anybody to get hurt, them being part of anybody. Me? I don't want some ****er to mess with me. I've got better things to do than partake in pointless conflict.

The differences are very subtle and I could go on and on, but the point is that there pros and cons to everything and darkworking is no different. I've never denied that, I've never tried to sugar coat it, and I've never presented myself as something that I'm not. Not intentionally. In fact it's pretty hard for me to whitewash it when I'm constantly pimping Asmoday's site when he does nothing to sugar coat it himself. Darkworking is there on display for the whole world to see.

Speaking of pain, of course you felt it coming off of me. I'm fairly new to all this. I even put that disclaimer in many of my posts. I'm what Asmoday would classify as an Apprentice and that means I've had a lot to work through, and I do mean a lot. You're the one who assumed it was because I polarized as a darkworker and not because I was still struggling through all the crap that built up over the years. Polarization doesn't instantly remove all your obstacles, in fact it can amplify them. It's all the more reason to work through it instead of running away.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Rei I'm not like a fundamentalist christian and I don't buy any "standard" views of light vs. dark. This is a viewpoint I have been evolving based on experience and intuition more than anything... and mashing together perspectives using experience and intuition as the catalyst to make a coherent map out of them.

Source loves everybody, because everybody is Source. Only some people choose to forget they are Source. It is THEY who suffer and THEY who have chosen pain. Source also feels the pain that they feel, though I'm sure it has comfort in the knowledge that no-one denies God forever, just like someone who tries to deny gravity is eventually going to have to wise up.

I feel a pain when dealing with Ilustro and I felt a lot better when I decided to stop talking with him. I don't mean this in the sense that I hate him, I accept him and love him - but I don't feel like validating his words or his actions, or his way of being. I don't believe darkworking is a path that will advance us towards the highest good of all. I believe it has its place, but it has the same place as any other form of suffering and confusion - a part of the beautiful tapestry of life that is there to serve as the counterpoint to our desires to live as we truly are.

Cado & Steve's notion of darkworking is NOT just about focusing on power over love. That in itself is a philosophy, and you probably get that philosophies are only as good as what you do with them. Darkworking and lightworking are both their respective philosophies + energy. The energy is either fear or love - inflow or outflow - defense/attack or peace - belief in separate God-self or belief in interconnected oneness. Note that these are all words (the philosophy component) but they are aiming to point at an energy component. No words can BE energy but they can attempt to direct you to feeling that energy for yourself.

I find myself at odds with Cado nowadays because I think he's trying to whitewash darkworking - plainly, because he wants to bring more darkworkers into the world. Darkworking is fine in a way - in that no-one can tell you what you should or shouldn't do - and in that way I defend the idea that darkworking is a "valid" path. In all other ways though I feel obliged to speak up against it. Fear is addictive and seductive, but in the end all it creates is pain. Pain itself is disconnection from God, from divine truth. If you let yourself be possessed by the dark you'll not feel the pain because it will have blinded your senses, but one day you'll wake up and have to face what you've done.

I don't believe darkworking is exactly the same as "evil". Most darkworkers come to the conclusion quickly that excessive self-indulgence or violent/uncouth tactics aren't helpful for their cause. But the darkness does have a sort of intelligence of its own - I don't like giving it a name or a self because this invites fear, and I don't think it really IS anything, but it has the illusion of an intelligence - and darkness wants to create more darkness.

This is what a darkworker does. He chooses to serve the cause of darkness - and is transformed by the darkness.

Just like someone who chooses to serve the light is transformed by the light.

It's your choice. I can't choose for anyone but I know what I'd advise them - every single damn time.

yeah, we view this differently. i don't think you're a fundy though, not sure what i said that gave you that impression. folks can have this type of understanding about morally charged signifiers regardless of what belief system they ascribe to. i think you are feeling a bit of judgment, a sense that darkwork is wrong somehow. but that is one reason i view this type of darkwork as different in significant ways from the New Age idea of it.

fear is a good motivator, i would agree with IC that light/dark both go there. but i still see this type of darkwork as being more about power than about fear. the thing is though, you have to work through all the barriers to tapping into your core, raw power - which probably means you must face and process some fear. but, i don't think it's fear at the core of this darkwork, i think it's love of power/self.

maybe i am biased because IC seems to be conscious, respectful, and in his own way ethical - but there is something DRASTICALLY different about the vibe i get from him and the vibe i've gotten from the small number of "New Age" darkworkers i've come across. drastically different. it's about the underlying motivation/intention.

all paths are perfect, but i mean this as more than a platitude. Andrew, i assure you i'm a lightworker. i didn't polarize, i came here that way. i won't get into my level and all of that but... yeah... i think i would not have trouble sensing if my impressions about this were off. with all the knowledge and understanding i've accumulated through raising my consciousness to even greater heights (i was born with it at an "above average" level), learning about metaphysical things through conventional methods, and discussions with guides/Source/intuition, taking all of that together, i would personally feel very presumptive and judgmental to say anything that implies IC's and Steve's notion of darkworking is wrong in any way.

but of course, Andrew, you're entitled to view it differently. i'm sharing my own perspective here in case others might think there is only one way a lightworker can view darkworking. obviously, you and i see it differently (though we probably have more similar understandings about that epic battle type of light/dark - even so, both sides have not handled themselves well, and it's about time we get to the forgiveness and acceptance instead of the 'fighting.'), and i am not saying you must alter your perspective here either. you have a right to see it as you choose. we don't have to agree on this, and i respect you anyway.

now, am i telling people darkwork is better? no, of course not. but i am not saying i think lightwork is better either. they are two sides of the same coin, and what is the best fit will depend on a few things. i would explain to a person contemplating this my understanding of the difference between this darkwork and the other type, but i also don't feel obligated to keep more members to the fold or something - i think a critical mass is inevitable, regardless of the numbers on either side.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by rei

now, am i telling people darkwork is better? no, of course not. but i am not saying i think lightwork is better either. they are two sides of the same coin, and what is the best fit will depend on a few things. i would explain to a person contemplating this my understanding of the difference between this darkwork and the other type, but i also don't feel obligated to keep more members to the fold or something - i think a critical mass is inevitable, regardless of the numbers on either side.

This. A thousand times this.

You've got to do what fits you. Everything has its pros and cons-I said that before. Which pros and which cons you can accept depends on who you decide to be. If you are my kind of darkworker, you put power first because you love yourself too much to wallow in unconscious victimhood. The way I understand lightworking, you love others so much that you don't want to see them wallow and in the process you raise your own awareness because you can't save the world if you are drowning.

Both paths have their negative sides, their "dark" sides if you will, and both paths can lead to heightened motivation and understanding. If you want to use the term love, healthy polarization is always aligned with love, it's just a matter of focus. For lack of a better word, I'd say the other kind of polarization is driven by ego-you channel your chosen energy and twist it through ego awareness instead of zooming out, identifying your divine self, and putting the ego under its rule. There's nothing wrong with ego but expecting it to run the show is a lot like letting a toddler drive a car. You wind up with a few dead people, your car gets totaled, and if that tree you crashed into ever reincarnates as something with claws or fangs you better run the **** away.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

This. A thousand times this.

hehe... i was referring to the New Age critical mass there, but i also see it as you took it now that you responded. deciding on ANY path through intention after exploring the options, and sticking with it, will necessarily raise one's consciousness. if you aren't going through the world on autopilot, you're growing and increasing your consciousness. i think we may sometimes forget that PD is really that easy, or the process of conscious growth happens that naturally through living with intention.

as i just explained to Tren in a PM, since we're talking about this topic, i wanted to share publicly that not only do i think there's a big difference between IC's and Steve's notion of darkworking and the other type - i don't even think it's POSSIBLE to "polarize" to be the other type. i think you're born that way, or you're not. you can play with black magick or LaVeyan stuff or whatever darkness you find cool (note: not suggesting this, certainly not unless an individual is well, well aware of ALL the likely and possible consequences, some of which are quite unpleasant - *please* people, do tons and tons of homework before you go down this route, so you know what you're getting into!), and you would still not be that type of darkworker.

if anyone is interested, Source agrees with me on this. Source technically has no "problem" with either type of darkwork, but Source also doesn't at all see the type discussed on this forum as a problem and doesn't consider it some kind of betrayal or anything like that. serving the self serves the All, one way or another. working through your own barriers to well-being has a ripple effect. so, if any curious visitors to this thread were interested in how Source feels about this, there it is. however, i realize this understanding may conflict with other beliefs about this sort of thing (Andrew, i have a feeling you don't like what has been shared here... understandable that it would possibly go against your own perspective - which is also right because it is right for you - but for the record, i'm not trying to be adversarial about this, not at all, and i do respect that we see this differently, and i don't expect you to change in any way, regardless of what i say or share that didn't originate in my own head), and that is fine, but since i am able to communicate with Source (not just talk to Source and guess the answers), i thought it would be helpful to share what i just heard. no judgment and no punishment, least of all in choosing the type of darkwork that you can technically choose to do after you've been born.

so, IC, while i was talking of a different critical mass, i see it that way as well. it's about your values and your goals, and your purpose in making the choice. well, it's about other things too, but i think it boils down to that.

[Cado]

I wasn't even looking of the critical mass part of the comment, but I think as humans evolve they will either transcend animal consciousness (which is where I think most people are) and own themselves or we will see destruction on a scale we've never seen it before. That's not prophecy or channeling, just observation. That's partly why I want to see more "awake" people moving around because even though saving the earth is not my major priority I sure as hell ain't gonna stand by while it all goes to ****. I kinda have to live here and I'm not sure I'd wanna move if I could, and my loved ones? I love my hypothetical children too much to leave them a barren dustball where they will spend their days hunting hypothetical mutant rats for sustenance. That's not how I roll.

[Tren]

Such a wide range of thoughts.

I just feel the need to throw this out..the very last thing I think about when using the term darkworking is dark magic or the like. Or from a evil vs good POV.
I am seeing it as where inner strength is drawn from and channelled outward.
If one gathers that via ego and is able to send it out in a positive manner is that evil?
I agree that we all gather from the same Source. The Source is pure love. Is it possible that people pocess it differently and present it differently but in the end the results are the same?

[rei]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

I wasn't even looking of the critical mass part of the comment, but I think as humans evolve they will either transcend animal consciousness (which is where I think most people are) and own themselves or we will see destruction on a scale we've never seen it before. That's not prophecy or channeling, just observation. That's partly why I want to see more "awake" people moving around because even though saving the earth is not my major priority I sure as hell ain't gonna stand by while it all goes to ****. I kinda have to live here and I'm not sure I'd wanna move if I could, and my loved ones? I love my hypothetical children too much to leave them a barren dustball where they will spend their days hunting hypothetical mutant rats for sustenance. That's not how I roll.

agreed. now, as an idealist, i tend to see a constructive path of progress, but since i also (somehow) have my feet on the ground (more so than many working from this type of perspective), i think it is helpful to expect increased awareness as i do my part to see it develop.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Tren

I just feel the need to throw this out..the very last thing I think about when using the term darkworking is dark magic or the like. Or from a evil vs good POV.

here here!

Originally Posted by Tren

I am seeing it as where inner strength is drawn from and channelled outward.

me too.

Originally Posted by Tren

If one gathers that via ego and is able to send it out in a positive manner is that evil?

i don't think so.

Originally Posted by Tren

I agree that we all gather from the same Source. The Source is pure love. Is it possible that people pocess it differently and present it differently but in the end the results are the same?

yes, very possible. that's one thing i was getting at in saying these are two sides of the same coin.

[blossom]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

I wasn't even looking of the critical mass part of the comment, but I think as humans evolve they will either transcend animal consciousness (which is where I think most people are) and own themselves or we will see destruction on a scale we've never seen it before. That's not prophecy or channeling, just observation. That's partly why I want to see more "awake" people moving around because even though saving the earth is not my major priority I sure as hell ain't gonna stand by while it all goes to ****. I kinda have to live here and I'm not sure I'd wanna move if I could, and my loved ones? I love my hypothetical children too much to leave them a barren dustball where they will spend their days hunting hypothetical mutant rats for sustenance. That's not how I roll.

I'm the same. I'm not too keen on being forced to move to Mars just because we can't get our **** together here. I like it here. Earth is my home, and it's really a paradise if people would start recognising it as such.

[Andrew Gubb]

Hey Rei, I did wonder what you'd hear from Source about this and lo and behold, I check and you've written from Source.

But I don't think Source judges or punishes either. I think you're missing the point. I think that what darkworkers do is not a way of making this world better. I see them doing things with their energy that lower the consciousness of others. I've felt this in their auras and in the energy exchange between us. Rei, I think you should think again, or try a different question to Source. I don't think people need to go around hearing that increasing their disconnect with light is going to make the world better. I get this idea implicit in what darkworkers have been saying on this forum and I feel it is a lie. I don't want to let this go unchallenged. Forget punishment or judgement or whatever, I want to defend truth, that's all.

Andrew

[Andrew Gubb]

I've made a new thread with some of the things I had to say in reply to Cado. I disagree that darkworking is a valid path

[rei]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Hey Rei, I did wonder what you'd hear from Source about this and lo and behold, I check and you've written from Source.

But I don't think Source judges or punishes either. I think you're missing the point. I think that what darkworkers do is not a way of making this world better. I see them doing things with their energy that lower the consciousness of others. I've felt this in their auras and in the energy exchange between us. Rei, I think you should think again, or try a different question to Source. I don't think people need to go around hearing that increasing their disconnect with light is going to make the world better. I get this idea implicit in what darkworkers have been saying on this forum and I feel it is a lie. I don't want to let this go unchallenged. Forget punishment or judgement or whatever, I want to defend truth, that's all.

Andrew

i feel your anger, Andrew (i was calm, centered and sleepy before i caught the vibes in between the words of your post)... i don't really agree that i am missing the point. everything is connected, even if an individual aspect of Oneness chooses to focus on serving self above others, THIS TYPE of darkwork is really about growing and becoming more of your purist self - i think one reason for the potential adverse effects is what happens when someone unplugs the stopper blocking their consciousness from all the old pain they were trying to avoid.

sure, there may be folks on this path who twist things around and distort them and get nefarious about it - but surely you can agree that some lightworkers do that too. it is not the polarity itself, it is how a person chooses to act about it that matters. if we're all connected, then it's not possible to be an island. as a darkworker grows, changes, processes all the goop that is in the way of the purest expression of self, that is also reflected in the external/collective. in that sense, polarizing as a darkworker can actually help achieve the same goals that lightworkers are out to achieve.

also, part of my point is that it is really impossible to increase your disconnection. love and power are both of Source. you can't really develop one without developing the other, all you can do is focus on one and ignore evidence of the increase in the other. but choosing to ignore the connection doesn't mean you're actually less connected. and if we are all aspects of Source, then focusing on loving the self is still connecting to Source.

i have asked Source for more on this (not me-as-aspect, Source-Source)... Source is validating what i've already said. don't fear the shadow self, judging dark in others means you reject the dark within yourself. the dark is not the bad. even a lightworker will need to consciously own and process their inner darkness to serve the all. avoiding it by judging it and trying to pretend it isn't there means your vibration is not as pure as it could be... doing so increases the distortion... not the clarity. Source is neither dark nor light only, Source is both. accepting both in yourself means you are more aligned with oneness... otherwise you are energizing the separation mindset. neither path is wrong... this type of darkworking is not really a problem... especially when you consider how the one affects and mirrors the all. you dislike this idea because you think it encourages separation, but denying the validity of this path and denying that it can be just as beneficial (with a broader focus or more complete perspective, taking into account the metaphysical dynamics involved in this realm) is just another way to encourage separation. [/Source comments]

i acknowledge your anger, Andrew. i almost think you believe i am siding with darkworkers or intentionally trying to mislead people... i'm not... i'm just pointing out that it is not betraying the path or betraying Source to be flexible instead of rigid and accepting/allowing instead of rejecting/invalidating. do you really feel you are coming from a place of unconditional love to work with an us-vs.-them mentality on this? or a place of conscious awareness of oneness? can you not see how, perhaps, your passion around this issue could be more than just indigo idealism? could perhaps be triggering you somehow?

Andrew, you know i have VERY strict personal ethics. if i smelled ANYTHING off about the Steve/IC darkworking, i would not at all talk about it this way. i don't know if i can explain more than i already have about why i feel zero ethical alarms going off about this, but i don't. my intuition offers zero red flags here too. i guess it's the oneness thing, and the knowing that it is impossible to heal self without that mirrored outward - it's only possible to focus on or convince yourself or train yourself to ignore how those inward-focused actions will automatically benefit the all. and i don't mean this in terms of the energy, if you believe you can keep your energy to yourself then you can. but the way this realm is built, what you do for the internal is automatically reflected in the external - so even if you are focused on or have the intention of keeping your energy to yourself - you are sharing it with the self - which means there is still a vibe of sharing energy introduced in the external. and the self is the all.