Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

ImOpen · 11-06-2006, 07:55 PM

If the world only consists of what we bring into our awareness, and we have control over that world and can make it better - then why not try to keep that world very very small, so that we do not need to work as much to make that world the perfect place to be living in?

Don't travel! Don't read book! Don't meet people!
Can you to see how this contradicts your intuition that ignorance is a bad thing?

(Pls move this thread if it is misplaced)

Caveman Joe · 11-07-2006, 02:35 AM

It's an interesting point that you raise.
I reckon if you're committed to making your world better, however small it may be, then you'll be the sort of person who'll have the mindset of continual improvement, and will naturally want to expand your world in time.
This brief discussion I had with a mate of mine might be relevant to this.

november · 11-07-2006, 03:05 AM

The problem with the OP's line of thought is that it doesn't take into consideration that all of us share awareness. There are already those of us who shut ourselves off and live in private bubbles, but there are many of us who constantly feel like there is more to life, even when we have very sheltered upbringings. This is b/c we are all on the same consciousness/awareness/whatever you want to call it.

We are all one.

ImOpen · 11-07-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by november

The problem with the OP's line of thought is that it doesn't take into consideration that all of us share awareness. There are already those of us who shut ourselves off and live in private bubbles, but there are many of us who constantly feel like there is more to life, even when we have very sheltered upbringings. This is b/c we are all on the same consciousness/awareness/whatever you want to call it.

We are all one.

So you imply that there is a "haunting" feeling that there is "something more" and that this makes you want to explore awareness (or other parts of the same awareness in your words.)

Why not kill that haunting feeling and have a whiskey?

ImOpen · 11-07-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by november

The problem with the OP's line of thought is that it doesn't take into consideration that all of us share awareness. There are already those of us who shut ourselves off and live in private bubbles, but there are many of us who constantly feel like there is more to life, even when we have very sheltered upbringings. This is b/c we are all on the same consciousness/awareness/whatever you want to call it.

We are all one.

So you imply that there is a "haunting" feeling that there is "something more" and that this makes you want to explore awareness (or other parts of the same awareness in your words.)

Why not kill that haunting feeling and have yourself a whiskey?

Radical · 11-07-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImOpen

If the world only consists of what we bring into our awareness, and we have control over that world and can make it better - then why not try to keep that world very very small, so that we do not need to work as much to make that world the perfect place to be living in?

Don't travel! Don't read book! Don't meet people!
Can you to see how this contradicts your intuition that ignorance is a bad thing?

(Pls move this thread if it is misplaced)

This would go against human instinct! As humans we crave the adventure even if it is not the easiest path in life. Just watch the film The Truman Show, and you will see that your utopian ideal is unrealistic.

ImOpen · 11-07-2006, 07:05 PM

"This would go against human instinct! "

And this was exactly my point.

A clash between instinct and intellect.

qufighter · 11-07-2006, 09:25 PM

Thinking only becomes easier as you become more aware because your thinking will be more accurate and useful (more based in reality). Ignorance is bliss if you find little success with thinking; however Intelligence is bliss if you are aware enough to think, plan, and implement successfully. It is much easier to find greater happiness using awareness of what you want, and awareness of the possible ways to succeeded concretely and in reality.

If you are aware enough to control most things it is easy to fall into the trap of being frustrated by that which is outside of your control. In this situation it might seem as if Ignorance would be bliss, because you would not have assumed you could succeed in the first place had you been unaware that it was possible. The frustration is futile however. Most likely you are just biting off more than you can chew.

Fill in the gaps of your awareness, and the results you desire will come easily. The question to ask is very often “What am I missing here?”, as if assembling a puzzle. The pieces are out there.

Zulu · 11-11-2006, 01:07 AM

Ignorance is obviously bliss in certain (but far from all!) respects. I mean, do you really want to hear about all the rapes/murders/disasters going on in the world every minute of every day?

Lotus · 11-11-2006, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulu

Ignorance is obviously bliss in certain (but far from all!) respects. I mean, do you really want to hear about all the rapes/murders/disasters going on in the world every minute of every day?

Valid point. But (you knew there'd be a but), before a person can empower him/herself to make changes in the world, that person must first be exposed to experiences which cry out for change. Pro-actively going out and making a difference in the lives of others can lead to a empowered and active bliss ... rather than a passive one.

I hope that made some sort of sense.

AndyMartin · 11-11-2006, 02:55 AM

I think the reason we are here is to experience joy. Personal development, spirituality, sense of purpose, etc. are all just tools we use to increase our joy.

The assertion that ignorance is bliss is ignorant. That is, it is based on a lack of understanding that egoic comfort and true joy are different. Ignorance provides egoic comfort, which ego naturally seeks since it is motivated by fear. That is why many people choose willful ignorance over raising awareness. But true joy is experienced only through experience. It can be good or bad experience, that doesn't matter to the animating consciousness--only to ego, which seeks comfort and gratification. The more conscious we become the less ego-bound we are, and our capacity to experience joy in any circumstance increases.

Raising awareness naturally means that we will be exposed to some of the bad things in the world, but since spirit is not attached to outcomes, joy abides.

songwriter · 11-18-2006, 11:57 AM

Well let me take you down to some song about it...

Strawberry Fields was a kind of religious monastery in Liverpool or so... ignorance of the outside world. I think a metaphore of Ignorance itself.

"Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see
lack of awareness... maybe happier without noticing certain things... the blue pill..
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out, it doesn't matter much to me
Purpose in life. Being a musician for John, hard... but it worked out...
Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low
The feeling of being alone in your conscious behaviour, you are "too high or too low", like Lennon explained "I knew I was different from the rest and I wondered if I was crazy or a genius"
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right, that is I think it's not too bad
And in the end it's not too bad...

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever

Always, no sometimes, think it's me, but you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean a "Yes" but it's all wrong, that is I think I disagree
My english is now good enough for this... lol..

Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields
Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout
Strawberry Fields forever
Strawberry Fields forever
Strawberry Fields forever"

"And in the future music will be seen, not only heard" Paul McCartney talking about why The Beatles did videoclips. Strawberry Fields Forever is virtually the first videoclip.

YouTube - The Beatles - Strawberry Fields Forever (colour)

11-06-2006, 07:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
ImOpen Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 97	Ignorance is bliss? If the world only consists of what we bring into our awareness, and we have control over that world and can make it better - then why not try to keep that world very very small, so that we do not need to work as much to make that world the perfect place to be living in? Don't travel! Don't read book! Don't meet people! Can you to see how this contradicts your intuition that ignorance is a bad thing? (Pls move this thread if it is misplaced)

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11-07-2006, 02:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
Caveman Joe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Cheshire, UK Posts: 265	It's an interesting point that you raise. I reckon if you're committed to making your world better, however small it may be, then you'll be the sort of person who'll have the mindset of continual improvement, and will naturally want to expand your world in time. This brief discussion I had with a mate of mine might be relevant to this.

11-07-2006, 03:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
november Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 32	The problem with the OP's line of thought is that it doesn't take into consideration that all of us share awareness. There are already those of us who shut ourselves off and live in private bubbles, but there are many of us who constantly feel like there is more to life, even when we have very sheltered upbringings. This is b/c we are all on the same consciousness/awareness/whatever you want to call it. We are all one.

11-07-2006, 07:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
ImOpen Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 97	"This would go against human instinct! " And this was exactly my point. A clash between instinct and intellect.

11-07-2006, 09:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
qufighter Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Thinking only becomes easier as you become more aware because your thinking will be more accurate and useful (more based in reality). Ignorance is bliss if you find little success with thinking; however Intelligence is bliss if you are aware enough to think, plan, and implement successfully. It is much easier to find greater happiness using awareness of what you want, and awareness of the possible ways to succeeded concretely and in reality. If you are aware enough to control most things it is easy to fall into the trap of being frustrated by that which is outside of your control. In this situation it might seem as if Ignorance would be bliss, because you would not have assumed you could succeed in the first place had you been unaware that it was possible. The frustration is futile however. Most likely you are just biting off more than you can chew. Fill in the gaps of your awareness, and the results you desire will come easily. The question to ask is very often “What am I missing here?”, as if assembling a puzzle. The pieces are out there.

11-11-2006, 01:07 AM	#9 (permalink)
Zulu Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada Posts: 62	Ignorance is obviously bliss in certain (but far from all!) respects. I mean, do you really want to hear about all the rapes/murders/disasters going on in the world every minute of every day?

11-11-2006, 02:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
AndyMartin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 208	I think the reason we are here is to experience joy. Personal development, spirituality, sense of purpose, etc. are all just tools we use to increase our joy. The assertion that ignorance is bliss is ignorant. That is, it is based on a lack of understanding that egoic comfort and true joy are different. Ignorance provides egoic comfort, which ego naturally seeks since it is motivated by fear. That is why many people choose willful ignorance over raising awareness. But true joy is experienced only through experience. It can be good or bad experience, that doesn't matter to the animating consciousness--only to ego, which seeks comfort and gratification. The more conscious we become the less ego-bound we are, and our capacity to experience joy in any circumstance increases. Raising awareness naturally means that we will be exposed to some of the bad things in the world, but since spirit is not attached to outcomes, joy abides.

11-18-2006, 11:57 AM	#12 (permalink)
songwriter Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,123	Well let me take you down to some song about it... Strawberry Fields was a kind of religious monastery in Liverpool or so... ignorance of the outside world. I think a metaphore of Ignorance itself. "Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout Strawberry Fields forever Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see lack of awareness... maybe happier without noticing certain things... the blue pill.. It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out, it doesn't matter much to me Purpose in life. Being a musician for John, hard... but it worked out... Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout Strawberry Fields forever No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low The feeling of being alone in your conscious behaviour, you are "too high or too low", like Lennon explained "I knew I was different from the rest and I wondered if I was crazy or a genius" That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right, that is I think it's not too bad And in the end it's not too bad... Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout Strawberry Fields forever Always, no sometimes, think it's me, but you know I know when it's a dream I think I know I mean a "Yes" but it's all wrong, that is I think I disagree My english is now good enough for this... lol.. Let me take you down, 'cos I'm going to Strawberry Fields Nothing is real, and nothing to get hungabout Strawberry Fields forever Strawberry Fields forever Strawberry Fields forever" "And in the future music will be seen, not only heard" Paul McCartney talking about why The Beatles did videoclips. Strawberry Fields Forever is virtually the first videoclip. YouTube - The Beatles - Strawberry Fields Forever (colour)

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums