Polarizing for increased effectiveness - Do I need to become a darkworker?

[glassflank]

Hi All,

So it would seem in order to gain the power I require to achieve some of my goals, I would be far better off Polarizing. Based on the goals I have and the attitude I enjoy the most it would seem I would need to Polarize to the dark side. I want the results of polarizing but I don’t want to extract a huge amount of value from society, I want to help people evolve but these short term (3-5 years) goals I have and the way I enjoy acting seem to indicate I would need to polarize to the dark side.

I want to experience relationships and sex with many many women – this has come about as a result of a lack of women in my life for a long time.
I really enjoy coming across as cocky arrogant guy, it amuses me to play the chauvinist, I find over-the top chauvinist jokes very funny.
The people I am learning from seem to be on the ‘dark-side’, they do things for themselves, but then they have helped people to learn (about attracting women) and in my experience helped me evolve more than anything else I have come across. Also they act in a way that they are value-giving people socially, giving more value than anyone around them, as opposed to be needy and trying to ‘get something’ from people (as this will completely blow your game)

After reading all of Stuart Wilde’s books it seems choosing the Dark Side would be an extremely bad decision, also Steve says either is fine, but Darkworkers are like cancer, isn’t cancer bad?

But I can’t just be impotent. Does a Darkworker eventually evolve to the point where he learns his lessons and begins to give back to society? If that’s the path I have to take and it will lead there I am happy to do that.

I also think being a lightworker generates the type of person who I kind of see as lame, I like them ok and love the work they do, I just don’t see myself being like that, I want to be ‘cool’ not a lame geeky self-help guy. Have I misinterpreted things and think I have to be a darkworker to proceed in my growth and evolution, to make progress in any direction, when I actually do not? Can I be a lightworker with such selfish goals? Do I in fact not need to choose at all and can still have enough power and influence to get what I want here?

Thanks everyone.

Nathan.

[joyfulgrowth]

Originally Posted by glassflank

I also think being a lightworker generates the type of person who I kind of see as lame, I like them ok and love the work they do, I just don’t see myself being like that, I want to be ‘cool’ not a lame geeky self-help guy. Have I misinterpreted things and think I have to be a darkworker to proceed in my growth and evolution, to make progress in any direction, when I actually do not? Can I be a lightworker with such selfish goals? Do I in fact not need to choose at all and can still have enough power and influence to get what I want here?

How about growing into serving the people who are just like you? Starting a movement of really cool lightworkers who model to people that not all lightworkers are "lame geeky self-help guys"? How does that sound?

(note: I am not an expert on this whole polarization thing, so please consider other answers as well)

About PUA: Does it work for you to have your women-related goals be fueled by the memory of lack?

[glassflank]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

How about growing into serving the people who are just like you? Starting a movement of really cool lightworkers who model to people that not all lightworkers are "lame geeky self-help guys"? How does that sound?

(note: I am not an expert on this whole polarization thing, so please consider other answers as well)

About PUA: Does it work for you to have your women-related goals be fueled by the memory of lack?

Yeah you might def be right about that cos I feel alot of people get turned off by Self-Help type stuff because it's lame. Ok thanks that could def be true

With the goals about women being related to lack, that was my original cause to begin my quest, however my motivation has recently dropped off because I don't feel the lack anymore, I have actually recently hired a life coach to help me sort that our because I am unable to force myself, using will power, to go out enough and learn this.

I guess if I find a new motivation it may no longer be a selfish goal huh. I do love women

[vartann]

Originally Posted by glassflank

Does a Darkworker eventually evolve to the point where he learns his lessons and begins to give back to society?

yes indeed - go for the "self"ish Grail of Power
you ll come to understand that "Self" is You/ is Them - is US

enjoy the fight

[toasterwater]

To begin, I'm not sure why you are using the term "darkworker", or what you actually mean by that. Are you basically saying you want to be a bad person?
If that is what you mean, I think it's important for you to rethink your position. It seems that many of your "goals" are just results of you having difficulty fitting in and getting through life smoothly.

I want to experience relationships and sex with many many women – this has come about as a result of a lack of women in my life for a long time.

As far as relationships and sex with many women, I understand why you want that... everyone has a sex drive, and sex is fun, and by the sounds of it, you are a virgin (or some very close approximation to one if not a technical virgin). It might seem like more fun to have sex with many women, but if you have anything of importance in your life, you will probably not have enough time to deal with that many women. Additionally, one woman who's company you actually enjoy, and who likes you will be more satisfying than many women that you will probably be lying to/deceiving, and not spending much quality time with. The sex will actually be better with the woman you have a better relationship with too. And the big selling point to monogamy is the reduced chance for STD's. No worse place to be sick than your junk, especially if you get lucky with one of those incurable STD's.

I really enjoy coming across as cocky arrogant guy, it amuses me to play the chauvinist, I find over-the top chauvinist jokes very funny.

You probably enjoy being confident, smart, strong and funny. I would venture to say that you don't truly enjoy being the guy you described above, because women don't like that guy, and neither does anyone else.

I also think being a lightworker generates the type of person who I kind of see as lame

Once again, your terminology is pretty vague. If by "lightworker", you mean someone who is generally a good person, than I don't see how it's possible for you to think good people are lame. This is mostly because "good" is relative. Relative to what you ask? Relative to you. Good is whatever you deem it. Society may have a different definition or concept of a good person, but that will only affect you if you cross boundaries protected by laws or large scale social inacceptance. Either one of those cases is still within your power to ignore.

What kind of person do you see as lame? Why don't you think of some things that you think a "lightorker" or "good person" does, and then look up some people you think are "cool". I bet you will find a lot of overlap there.

As a closing note, just realize that yes, you should take care of yourself. Pursue your goals and become the best, happiest, richest, strongest, funniest, sexiest, most successful person you can be... but when you're done with that, you might find satisfaction in helping others.

[glassflank]

Originally Posted by vartann

yes indeed - go for the "self"ish Grail of Power
you ll come to understand that "Self" is You/ is Them - is US

enjoy the fight

Thanks Vartann, that def makes sense to me. that's a good confirmation for me

[glassflank]

Originally Posted by toasterwater

To begin, I'm not sure why you are using the term "darkworker", or what you actually mean by that. Are you basically saying you want to be a bad person?
If that is what you mean, I think it's important for you to rethink your position. It seems that many of your "goals" are just results of you having difficulty fitting in and getting through life smoothly.



As far as relationships and sex with many women, I understand why you want that... everyone has a sex drive, and sex is fun, and by the sounds of it, you are a virgin (or some very close approximation to one if not a technical virgin). It might seem like more fun to have sex with many women, but if you have anything of importance in your life, you will probably not have enough time to deal with that many women. Additionally, one woman who's company you actually enjoy, and who likes you will be more satisfying than many women that you will probably be lying to/deceiving, and not spending much quality time with. The sex will actually be better with the woman you have a better relationship with too. And the big selling point to monogamy is the reduced chance for STD's. No worse place to be sick than your junk, especially if you get lucky with one of those incurable STD's.



You probably enjoy being confident, smart, strong and funny. I would venture to say that you don't truly enjoy being the guy you described above, because women don't like that guy, and neither does anyone else.



Once again, your terminology is pretty vague. If by "lightworker", you mean someone who is generally a good person, than I don't see how it's possible for you to think good people are lame. This is mostly because "good" is relative. Relative to what you ask? Relative to you. Good is whatever you deem it. Society may have a different definition or concept of a good person, but that will only affect you if you cross boundaries protected by laws or large scale social inacceptance. Either one of those cases is still within your power to ignore.

What kind of person do you see as lame? Why don't you think of some things that you think a "lightorker" or "good person" does, and then look up some people you think are "cool". I bet you will find a lot of overlap there.

As a closing note, just realize that yes, you should take care of yourself. Pursue your goals and become the best, happiest, richest, strongest, funniest, sexiest, most successful person you can be... but when you're done with that, you might find satisfaction in helping others.

Hi toasterwater,

check here to see what I'm referring to in terms of darkworker
Polarization

Most of your assumptions are incorrect in this case.

[Andrew Gubb]

A few points I thought of -

After reading all of Stuart Wilde’s books it seems choosing the Dark Side would be an extremely bad decision, also Steve says either is fine, but Darkworkers are like cancer, isn’t cancer bad?

Yes! I really would say that Darkworking serves no-one. But I think Steve was trying to encourage you to use your own authority by saying they're both viable paths. If he just told you not to, and you decided to let him be your guru, how would you evolve? I think you can only become either a lightworker or a darkworker when you have become independent from the assurance of other people. Both lightworkers and darkworkers experience resistence for what they do, but they feel that their higher calling is more important than whether another person agrees with what they do or not.

But I can’t just be impotent. Does a Darkworker eventually evolve to the point where he learns his lessons and begins to give back to society? If that’s the path I have to take and it will lead there I am happy to do that.

Umm... I think Steve explained it badly. Yes and no. If you decide to focus on yourself, you eventually recognise you're part of the greater body and the best for you is a harmonious, loving relationship with that. That form of darkworking is one you transcend. If you focus on building dark energy (fear energy) in you and using it as a form of power and motivation, though, you won't "transcend" that. You'll be running away from enlightenment, love and lasting happiness so long as you let yourself be used by fear.

I also think being a lightworker generates the type of person who I kind of see as lame, I like them ok and love the work they do, I just don’t see myself being like that, I want to be ‘cool’ not a lame geeky self-help guy. Have I misinterpreted things and think I have to be a darkworker to proceed in my growth and evolution, to make progress in any direction, when I actually do not? Can I be a lightworker with such selfish goals? Do I in fact not need to choose at all and can still have enough power and influence to get what I want here?

Me and my best friend, lightworkers both, have the most perverse sense of humour. It's easy to see who's a real lightworker and who's full of **** by making our jokes. If they're disgusted and think they are more enlightened than us because they maintain more decorum, then I'd say that they have more evolution to do, at the very least. If they piss themselves laughing, then they're lightworkers. Humour is divine

I'm cool. I think Steve had the belief that he needed to be uncool or weak to be a lightworker - he actually said something like that in his book. (Talking about Power, he said that after choosing to give up the dark side he spent some years feeling unfulfilled until he realised that he had a soul-level longing to build his power - and not for dark reasons). Well, I'm pretty good at not giving a crap what anyone thinks, so I don't mind living for myself if that's what my heart brings me to, and I didn't decide at any point to identify as a lightworker. Perhaps this is why I allow myself to have perverse humour and go after women sexually, etc. Yet I have to admit that the only thing that makes me feel that life is worth living in the slightest is my mission to help people. I really would kill myself right now if I found myself limited to living a self-centred wage-slave job all my life. That feels so utterly meaningless, everything but doing my part to bring this world to love feels meaningless, and even sexing women and earning money feels meaningless unless it is in harmony with my greater mission (I do both with great vigour). I'd say I'm a lightworker, then

Hope this was of some help. By the way, I think the greater part of the people who write about polarity on these forums don't know what they are talking about - painful, but true. I think Plato understands polarity very well, particularly darkworking, and I don't know who else. Good luck

Andrew

[vartann]

Originally Posted by glassflank

Thanks Vartann, that def makes sense to me. that's a good confirmation for me

most welcome Bro

[Burke]

My two cents:

I want to experience relationships and sex with many many women – this has come about as a result of a lack of women in my life for a long time.

This is not a negative pursuit. Men and women both seem to think women shouldn't be open about their sexual needs, which is unfortunate. I'm sure that if you set out with the mindset of satisfying women sexually, for mutual pleasure, you'd find more than you would know what to do with.

Be safe! And I agree with the previous poster who said that finding one woman whose company you truly enjoy, and who enjoys being around you, is worth more than a million sexual conquests. Without love, or at least emotional connection, sex is meaningless.

I really enjoy coming across as cocky arrogant guy, it amuses me to play the chauvinist, I find over-the top chauvinist jokes very funny.

I find over-the-top chauvinist jokes funny, too. I also enjoy racist humor, perverse jokes, and downright disturbing humor. Does this mean I'm a racist, a chauvinist, a pervert, etc.? No, not at all.

Simply because you enjoy chauvinist humor doesn't mean that's who you are, or even who you should be. In fact, often it's evidence of the exact opposite.

FWIW, wanting to sleep with many women AND wanting to act like a chauvinistic jerk will work for you for a while, but it will do terrible, terrible things to your karma. Now, if you just play-act at being a chauvinist for the amusement of the people around you - the way a chubby friend of mine likes to "practice his ninja skills", or the way an effeminate male friend of mine likes to pick mock fights with people and say overly macho things - then that's fine. That's humor, and humor is divine. But real chauvinism? Not popular. Not cool.

The people I am learning from seem to be on the ‘dark-side’, they do things for themselves, but then they have helped people to learn (about attracting women) and in my experience helped me evolve more than anything else I have come across. Also they act in a way that they are value-giving people socially, giving more value than anyone around them, as opposed to be needy and trying to ‘get something’ from people (as this will completely blow your game)

I'm a bit confused by this part. It sounds like your friends are selfish and manipulative people, who are coaching others on how to be selfish and manipulative, while keeping enough cover so as not to, er, completely blow their game.

It's my opinion that if a person considers their interactions with other people to be a "game", they're in it for selfish purposes, and will do whatever is necessary to get the results they want. This often means manipulation, lying, and general ill treatment of the people around them.

Intent is the difference. Are your friends offering value with the expectation of something in return? Are they doing it *primarily* to boost their own reputation or bottom line? Do they directly benefit, at the expense of others, every time they offer "value"?

And, as a final word of advice: You say you want to be "cool". Then stop trying to be cool, and be yourself. Trying to be something you aren't will only lead to frustration.

"Bad" does not equate to "cool", except among those who value bad behavior. Are those the people you want to be around?

[pjhaggerty]

eventually you do have to give back.

about darkworkers as cancers- cancers are good because in defeating them we get stronger. however, becoming a cancer is probably a shortsighted move because either you will be defeated or you will destroy the system that sustains you. Overall though, it is better for humanity as a whole if we keep having cancers (i.e. darkworkers) and then defeating them, as we get stronger.

In order to get what you want, you have to give something back. Whether you focus on the giving and get as a consequence or focus on the getting and give as a necessity, it is still a trade.

There is nothing wrong with having selfish goals. however, you must make sure to balance them with giving. For example, having many relationships is not even necessarily a selfish thing. If you make sure that you give more of what other people want in the relationship than what you get, then you can get everything you really want.

For a lightworker, they attempt to satisfy their own goals in order to increase their capacity to give. If I have supportive relationships around me, it makes it possible for me to put out higher quality works. It is not advisable to sacrifice yourself to be a good lightworker. This will actually make you a worse lightworker, because the resentment you have for missing out on your own desires will cause you to give less.

It sounds like you don't connect with the way that 'lame geeky self help guys' have chosen to give. That is fine. As long as you are improving other people's lives such that they perceive their lives are improving, you are giving. If that is by doing the opposite of 'lame geeky self help guy' stuff, it's all good, as long as the other person's life is improving.

you don't need to be a raw foodist or wear organic clothing or be good with computers or be all into every self help thing to be a lightworker. All you have to do is prioritize your life on giving to others. If getting something for yourself would help you give to others, then that's good too.

By the same token, you don't need to worship satan or sell drugs or kill animals on the weekend to be a darkworker. All you have to do is prioritize your desires over everything else. If giving something to someone else would help you get something you want, then giving is acceptable.

either way, eventually you will find that you have to give and get.

[Andrew Gubb]

about darkworkers as cancers- cancers are good because in defeating them we get stronger. however, becoming a cancer is probably a shortsighted move because either you will be defeated or you will destroy the system that sustains you. Overall though, it is better for humanity as a whole if we keep having cancers (i.e. darkworkers) and then defeating them, as we get stronger.

I think this logic is extremely dubious, but what's more if you become a darkworker you don't care about making the body stronger anyway, and you don't need to use it as an excuse to yourself, as you really don't need other people to tell you you are doing things right.

If you feel some sort of compassion for others, if you feel worried that becoming darkworker will hurt people, then don't become one - by definition.

[Cado]

Darkworkers can be parasites but they don't need to be, counter to the opinions of most on these forums. Your path can be entirely self-focused without inflicting harm on anyone you don't mean to hurt. Indeed, you can even experience love and empathy, you just won't do it in the context of oneness.

That's the primary difference, perhaps the dividing line: do you believe it is best to work on behalf of the whole, to identify yourself more with the whole than you do as an individual, or do you value your individuality above everything else? Lightworkers can be individualistic but they cannot separate from the whole. Darkworkers have no inborn responsibilities aside from their own needs. They must determine how they will treat others on their own. Most would choose a form of ethical behavior because it feels better than psychopathy. (Not to mention there is no direct benefit to being a parasite and dampening others awareness.)

I've outlined my views on polarity here. If you're serious, I'd suggest running google searches on The Temple of Set, Polarity Magic, The Kybalion, Satanism (add in "love" and "compassion" to get some interesting articles), and The Left Hand Path. All of those are spiritual in their connotations barring Satanism, however they provide valuable insight into how one can walk this road without sacrificing wisdom for power. If you're completely allergic to anything spiritual, just think of any references to magic and what have you as relating to a part of yourself, primarily the subconscious.

I'd also recommend The Darkworker Experiment. The site owner hasn't updated it in quite some time but what's there is excellent. It's mostly written from a neutral perspective so you can benefit from it regardless of what you believe about spiritual matters.

[Andrew Gubb]

^Those are interesting ideas, Ilustro, but in my opinion it's important to know that when you start using a certain energy, the end result is that love and compassion ARE barred off for you and your actions WILL hurt others. That understanding, for me, is what makes the concepts of darkworkers and lightworkers useful. It might not be intuitive what these energies are. But if you grow your fear energy you'll hurt the world, guaranteed. For love energy, the converse is true. Basically this is Good and Evil, and I know some people don't like those words because Evil implies a judgement, but the forces of Good and evil DO EXIST, they are powerful forces, and they affect everything we do. If you want to, you can serve one of these forces. You will need to become conscious of their existance first though.

Andrew

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

^Those are interesting ideas, Ilustro, but in my opinion it's important to know that when you start using a certain energy, the end result is that love and compassion ARE barred off for you and your actions WILL hurt others. That understanding, for me, is what makes the concepts of darkworkers and lightworkers useful. It might not be intuitive what these energies are. But if you grow your fear energy you'll hurt the world, guaranteed. For love energy, the converse is true. Basically this is Good and Evil, and I know some people don't like those words because Evil implies a judgement, but the forces of Good and evil DO EXIST, they are powerful forces, and they affect everything we do. If you want to, you can serve one of these forces. You will need to become conscious of their existance first though.

Andrew

I respectfully disagree. This is counter to my own experience and my studies.

90% of the time it seems that -workers disagree with the way they're described by people on the other side of the spectrum; I urge anyone who is curious to keep that in mind. Lightworkers tend to think darkworkers are psychotic parasites who want nothing more than to devour the world whereas darkworkers tend to think of lightworkers as self-righteous airheads who are completely detached from reality. Neither is true, though I wouldn't say the stereotypes have no basis. They always do. Think of these cases as cautionary tales; they represent the negative side of each path.

Coming from the darker end of things, it seems that it's impossible to progress very far as a darkworker without a strong code of personal ethics. You need to know where you stand in regard to other people and you need to have a firm grasp of cause and effect. It would be delusional to say dark energies are not destructive, but it is oft forgotten that destruction is positive when harnessed well. Those devoted to darkworking use destructive energies primarily to conquer their inner demons. They will use it against their enemies, too, but this is fairly rare. It's almost always reserved for extreme cases wherein another has willfully directed their power against the darkworker.

Just to make it perfectly clear, do not buy into the idea that becoming a darkworker means becoming a psychopath. I guarantee that will destroy you if you take it far enough. If you're really interested in darkworking, look for people who call themselves darkworkers and listen to what they have to say. After you've done that, talk to lightworkers and contrast what you've seen with what they say. Make up your own mind and choose what seems best to you.

[Andrew Gubb]

Hmm...

Do you agree with the philosophy put forth on darkworkers.com?

[Cado]

I agree with much of it, yes.

[Andrew Gubb]

Hmm... you interest me

Those devoted to darkworking use destructive energies primarily to conquer their inner demons.

Does that mean fear energy?

Do you control your inner demons, i.e. insecurity with fear?

For instance, you want to write a book and publish it. An inner demon, as you called it, tells you you couldn't because of X, Y, Z. So you channel a load of intense panic telling yourself all of the horrible things that will happen if you don't publish your book: how you'll be totally worthless, how you'll never achieve any goal if you can't achieve this one, etc...

Is that how you work with energy?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Hmm... you interest me



Does that mean fear energy?

Do you control your inner demons, i.e. insecurity with fear?

For instance, you want to write a book and publish it. An inner demon, as you called it, tells you you couldn't because of X, Y, Z. So you channel a load of intense panic telling yourself all of the horrible things that will happen if you don't publish your book: how you'll be totally worthless, how you'll never achieve any goal if you can't achieve this one, etc...

Is that how you work with energy?

Not quite. The primary use of panic is to snap myself awake if I'm wallowing in apathy. I would map the process as Stagnation > Breaking Self > Healing. It's rare that I need to use that process these days, and I would never prolong it. The feelings I associate with panic, insecurity, and fear turn self-destructive if I try to use them exclusively.

The first step toward conquering a demon is awareness. I calm my mind and I watch for any anomalies which would indicate that I'm sabotaging myself. The moment I notice something I grasp hold of it and I begin asking a series of questions relating to the issue. As an example, I used to struggle with my weight. If I was feeling lazy and I thought to myself, "eh, skipping a week of exercise isn't gonna kill me" I would immediately look for the root of that thought process. If I didn't catch it early enough to prevent self-sabotage, I'd keep my cool and plan a temporary diet/workout routine that would compensate for the excess/laziness and result in a net gain.

My focus is on asserting my dominion over myself. I do not acknowledge these demons as having authority over me and I will not let anything stand in the way of my pursuit of excellence ( Destroy > Recalibrate > Integrate). I aim to fulfill my potential within the span of one lifetime. The feeling I associate with this is excitement. It is the impossible battles which heighten my senses and inspire me to stay at the top of my game. Victory under these conditions is the sweetest feeling I know. It's an addiction that has had nothing but positive effects upon my life.

Now, if you associate the word "fear" with "taboo", it's accurate. However, it seems a stretch to make that correlation... What I mean is that I have come as far as I have by questioning and breaking a number of taboos, societal, spiritual, and otherwise. Whether one is atheistic or spiritual, it seems inevitable that darkworkers will break taboos. But that's enough on that for now. It's a subject for another time.

The following are articles that have been highly influential to my way of thinking:
Rooting Exercise (Basic)
The Coyote Option
Death and Finding Your Purpose
The Violent History of Yoga
Satanism and Love
The Left Hand Path And Compassion

[Andrew Gubb]

Seems that darkworking for you is about breaking taboos.

Now, if you associate the word "fear" with "taboo", it's accurate. However, it seems a stretch to make that correlation... What I mean is that I have come as far as I have by questioning and breaking a number of taboos, societal, spiritual, and otherwise. Whether one is atheistic or spiritual, it seems inevitable that darkworkers will break taboos. But that's enough on that for now. It's a subject for another time.

Also in the article about Satanism and love, it says that Satan is about indulgence.

Interesting stuff, and I agree that a lot of this stuff is dark. (Not all of it, though, I think that stuff about violence in Yoga is just common sense. I should say that I don't believe Ghandi was a real lightworker and I do believe that all things have their place and can be done with love, including the use of anger and violence).

Though I think what really inspires you, maybe, is going against the mandates of society to be your own authority. Am I right?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

(Not all of it, though, I think that stuff about violence in Yoga is just common sense. I should say that I don't believe Ghandi was a real lightworker and I do believe that all things have their place and can be done with love, including the use of anger and violence).

Even though I picked most of those articles because they were from a left-hand perspective, I picked that one specifically because it wasn't. It's important to draw from many sources.

Though I think what really inspires you, maybe, is going against the mandates of society to be your own authority. Am I right?

That makes me go a big rubbery one, no doubt about that. And I do place a lot of emphasis on it. But I think anyone who polarizes has to be willing to claim authority over oneself even if they submit to a higher power or the collective good.

How do you choose to take control? That's one of the key questions. An emotion I made no mention of is passion yet it's what I consider my primary driving force. Aggressive passion augmented by willfulness and unapologetic selfishness. I am the adversary, though I do not feel it's about conflict so much as refinement.

Having gazed through both lenses at different points, I believe that puts me squarely in the "fear" motivated category as it is defined by most self-identified lightworkers, yet from where I stand it is so different from fear it dilutes the meaning of the word to apply it in this fashion.

Oneness is the real dividing line. If someone polarizes in accordance with oneness, their definition of love becomes inseparable from it and every other major change aligns with that. If one polarizes in accordance with separateness, they don an unbreakable will as both a weapon and a shield. They break taboos to break their bonds, and though it is immensely pleasurable it is always in service to personal excellence. It's difficult to say more in general terms since each individual's path varies so much that it would be disrespectful of me to act as their voice. What I have said merely seems to be true of those who have successfully polarized and it reflects my experience.

[Andrew Gubb]

But I think anyone who polarizes has to be willing to claim authority over oneself even if they submit to a higher power or the collective good.

Yes - I agree. And I believe we all end up serving - I serve God, while you might serve others in order to serve yourself, but you'll still often serve others. But our personal authority is so important.

If someone polarizes in accordance with oneness, their definition of love becomes inseparable from it and every other major change aligns with that.

Yes - though I'm curious what you think love for others could be if it has nothing to do with oneness. Those articles on selfish love - I don't get it, do you express love? Are you kind to people simply because it feels good to do so?

I do see that there is a way of calling love "selfish". I love because it feels right to do so - not because anyone tells me to. I love for me, not for others. Or maybe I just love, just because it's what I was made to do. But I do know that if I didn't express this, life would seem utterly pointless. I'd probably kill myself. So yeah, love is sort of "selfish" for me, in a way.

But somehow I don't see a darkworker loving in this way.

I remember hearing about Alestair Crowley a bit. What do you think about him? He talked about love a lot, but in the end he inspired some of the most depraved practises. I don't see him as really loving. I think he talked about love because he wanted to exalt himself with high-sounding philosophy. I wonder if that's what's going on with you too. I don't mean to insult you, it's just what seems to fit. What IS love for you? How do you relate to another person?

By the way, I don't doubt you anymore, you seem to be quite coherent despite that one thing I don't get yet. The meditation, I checked it out and then a friend talked to me, and I seemed to be in a sort of trance and what he said to me - it wasn't anything special, something like if I wanted a cup of tea - I felt like what he was saying was making fun of me subtly in a very cruel way. I had to make a prayer and meditate a bit for it to pass. You like this energy?

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Yes - though I'm curious what you think love for others could be if it has nothing to do with oneness. Those articles on selfish love - I don't get it, do you express love? Are you kind to people simply because it feels good to do so?

Aren't we all? The main point I've taken away from all that is that altruism is a lie; everything has a selfish aspect and that's always the driving force. Even a martyr is true to his nature.

Love without oneness is not that different than love with oneness, the primary difference is that it's selective. As I see it, oneness is nonsense because it's impossible to love everybody and there's no good reason to believe we are all in fact one. We're linked by cause and effect, sure, but it's quite a leap to declare we're basically the same organism. When I hear someone say something like, "I long to be one with source" I think it's anti-evolutional, as if returning to a primordial state is somehow an advancement.

Perhaps it is inevitable that everything, even the spirit, returns to that form at some point. However, that doesn't resonate with me, and I see no good reason to believe it at this time.

I remember hearing about Alestair Crowley a bit. What do you think about him? He talked about love a lot, but in the end he inspired some of the most depraved practises. I don't see him as really loving. I think he talked about love because he wanted to exalt himself with high-sounding philosophy. I wonder if that's what's going on with you too. I don't mean to insult you, it's just what seems to fit. What IS love for you? How do you relate to another person?

Crowley fascinates me but I am not one of his followers. As with everything else, I pick and choose what I take from him. He is not someone I would emulate.

Again, love is not that different for me than in it is for anyone else, I'm just honest about my selectivity and selfishness. I would go to great lengths for those I love and I'm known for being generous.

By the way, I don't doubt you anymore, you seem to be quite coherent despite that one thing I don't get yet. The meditation, I checked it out and then a friend talked to me, and I seemed to be in a sort of trance and what he said to me - it wasn't anything special, something like if I wanted a cup of tea - I felt like what he was saying was making fun of me subtly in a very cruel way. I had to make a prayer and meditate a bit for it to pass. You like this energy?

Meditations like that make it harder to insult me. I'm more confident, focused, and clear-minded, essentially the opposite of what you describe for yourself. I am in control.

It's kind of like how the meditations lightworkers advocate always made me feel so damn floaty, like my being lacked coherence. It felt nothing like "enlightenment" or warmth or oneness, it was just very disorienting.

It just goes to show that nothing is suitable for everyone.

[joyfulgrowth]

The main point I've taken away from all that is that altruism is a lie; everything has a selfish aspect and that's always the driving force.

That's one of the reasons I am still a bit doubtful about this whole polarization thing. It seems to invite people to either totally focus on selfishness or selflessness.

I would rather invite us to a path of self-fulness - not in the sense of ego, but learning to be increasingly present with the life flowing through us, whether we are striving to meet needs like meaning, contribution and support or rather ones that only have to do with us as individuals. I believe that many of the problems attributed to "lack of polarization" or "lightworker's/darkworker's syndrome" could be solved that way. If you manage to be fully present, the life in you and in others doesn't need to be contradictory at all.


My other doubt is that I have seen various threads on this where people write "I want to polarize because I want... This comes from a lack of... in my life". I am highly doubtful that doing anything from a lack-based motivation would be successful on the long run. If you are truly connected to your longing to (e.g.) have more intimacy in your life and based on that make a conscious choice to polarize, fine. But based on lack?

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

That's one of the reasons I am still a bit doubtful about this whole polarization thing. It seems to invite people to either totally focus on selfishness or selflessness

I think it's more like "indulgence" and "driven altruism".

If you want to forget that we're living in a house that's falling down, then you can indulge yourself and live for self-centred pleasures. In achieving these pleasures, you will need to forget the mandates of your own heart as well, and cover up your deeper suffering. Seeing as the world wants you to wake up and see that now's not the time to do this, it'll bring you resistance, and in the insensitivity necessary for fighting that resistance, you will cause hurt.

If you both remember and care that you're in a house that's falling down, you don't see the point in self-centred pleasures. You're intensely driven to help because this is what the situation on earth is calling for.

[Cado]

Gubb, if I adopted that perspective, helping people would be the furthest thing from my mind. If it's falling down, it's every man for himself. There's no point in trying to do anything for anybody else because if they wanted to change things that's what they'd do. Case in point: Jesse thinks everything is falling apart and he's certainly not a lightworker. (He has, however, used it to empower himself.)

If I were unawake and unaware and someone more "advanced" than I was came to me offering something which seems to have made him more miserable than he was before, I'd turn him down. You tend to talk of what "is" without recognizing that it's a lens you filter reality through. Polarity doesn't work from a victimhood mindset.

[rhoeda]

I agree with Joyful Growth.
Wasn't it Carl Jung that promoted integration of of our opposites within in order to be at peace with our whole being?
I took that as meaning to acknowledge the negative and opposite within.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by joyfulgrowth

That's one of the reasons I am still a bit doubtful about this whole polarization thing. It seems to invite people to either totally focus on selfishness or selflessness.

Where did I do that? I know you're not speaking to me personally, but I think my post represents the two sides fairly well. All I did is place emphasis on an aspect of "altruism" which is oft ignored.

I would rather invite us to a path of self-fulness - not in the sense of ego, but learning to be increasingly present with the life flowing through us, whether we are striving to meet needs like meaning, contribution and support or rather ones that only have to do with us as individuals. I believe that many of the problems attributed to "lack of polarization" or "lightworker's/darkworker's syndrome" could be solved that way. If you manage to be fully present, the life in you and in others doesn't need to be contradictory at all.

That sounds great on paper but we're dualistic beings by design. That doesn't mean the two halves can't be reconciled into one whole; in fact, I would argue that's the whole point of polarization. The two paths end in the same place. You're just deciding where you'll begin and how you'll progress.

My other doubt is that I have seen various threads on this where people write "I want to polarize because I want... This comes from a lack of... in my life". I am highly doubtful that doing anything from a lack-based motivation would be successful on the long run. If you are truly connected to your longing to (e.g.) have more intimacy in your life and based on that make a conscious choice to polarize, fine. But based on lack?

You most likely learned that terminology because you sought ways to remedy your own lack, yes?

Everyone starts somewhere. Starting with lack does not mean ending with lack. It is the catalyst, it is the push. And I would say any worldview which lacks... lack, is... lacking. There are always things that can improve. It's simply a matter of your perspective.

[Andrew Gubb]

Originally Posted by Illustro Cado

Gubb, if I adopted that perspective, helping people would be the furthest thing from my mind. If it's falling down, it's every man for himself. There's no point in trying to do anything for anybody else because if they wanted to change things that's what they'd do. Case in point: Jesse thinks everything is falling apart and he's certainly not a lightworker. (He has, however, used it to empower himself.)

If I were unawake and unaware and someone more "advanced" than I was came to me offering something which seems to have made him more miserable than he was before, I'd turn him down. You tend to talk of what "is" without recognizing that it's a lens you filter reality through. Polarity doesn't work from a victimhood mindset.

Not a victimhood mindset. It might be a personal challenge, and it might taint my words a bit, but I've gotten over it enough to be able to polarise.

I refer to the fact that for a lightworker, the things which normal people do become meaningless. They seem only to be an evasion of what's important. And what's important may not be literal risk of death, but it is very grave, perhaps worse - it's the living death, disconnection, unlove, constant suffering.

[Cado]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

Not a victimhood mindset. It might be a personal challenge, and it might taint my words a bit, but I've gotten over it enough to be able to polarise.

Generally, I don't consider myself qualified to judge exactly where another is. I trust my judgement to the extent that I will size people up and act accordingly (in personal matters), but my intuition needs to be sharpened. However, I make an excellent mirror when I so choose.

We all have our issues-don't mistake my words for an attempt to tear you down. The truth is that when I read what you have to say I see someone who is very hurt and angry, someone with good intentions that is in no position to act on them. Right or wrong, take it as you will; it's none of my business what you do with that.

I refer to the fact that for a lightworker, the things which normal people do become meaningless. They seem only to be an evasion of what's important. And what's important may not be literal risk of death, but it is very grave, perhaps worse - it's the living death, disconnection, unlove, constant suffering.

I'd posit that that's true for anyone of mildly heightened awareness. So essentially we agree-there are far worse things than death and many, if not most, unconsciously embrace them.

I do hope the trend shifts, if only slightly. This world could use a few more flamboyant and brilliant people.