Honesty

[Tanja]

When we talk about honesty I take it to mean an honest opinion, not the Truth on a certain subject, which means a person can express their honest opinion about something but it doesn't necessarily mean they are right. If that makes any sense

And I agree with what others have said about saying it with love, ''diplomacy'', etc.

[gigij]

So everyone here only lies out of social obligations, to spare peoples feelings, you know, for truly moral purposes?

No one has secrets to keep, ego to boost, wants to get something their own way ...

really ?

just me huh

If you say so ... but I'm not sure I buy it.

[blossom]

Sometimes I do catch myself lying and wonder why I bothered...it was nothing worth lying over, it kinda spilled out of me before I even had a chance to choose it seems. Other times I can honestly say that I don't lie to get my own way...if it looks like I'm not going to get what I want I can accept that, there is just nothing I have wanted so badly that I need to manipulate the situation.
I've been accused of being too honest in the past...which could be a fault? I will lie if it's really necessary, and sometimes I have lied about my address to get out of tram fines, when I was poor etc. other times I haven't and I pay them. Honesty is a discipline, so it's not always easy to be completely honest.
And if I have a secret, I go to group hug.com and confess to strangers...very cathartic...it's replaced the old catholic church confessional box...except there are alot of types there who are there to be entertained by your 'sins' and if it isn't interesting enough for them, they'll actually rate your secret as dull or exciting...so I don't like going there much!

[rei]

i think some folks here are equating diplomacy with lying and i don't agree with that. we can share truth in a soft way or in a loud way, it is still truth. if we say it bluntly it may increase defensiveness which can get in the way of productive communication. but if we are more gentle, i have found people are often more receptive. i have experience with diplomacy and experience with bluntness and i usually prefer diplomacy. sometimes blunt seems very disrespectful to me. we honor our truth with diplomacy too.

[Donkey1]

There's a difference between bluntness and rudeness.

Rude people do obnoxious things, cutting in line, eating with mouths open, double parking, talking without thinking, etc.

Blunt people share what they think and don't beat around bushes.

Situation. A person gets a new outfit and asks you if it matches. (You think it looks terrible).

A 'nice' person would say 'Hmm are you sure you don't have anything else that match those pants?' or 'Yeah it looks cute' or 'Maybe you should ask Sam, he/she has better taste than me". And might or might not talk about how you suck at dressing behind your back.

A 'rude' person would tell you not to interrupt them. And finally when it's too late they'll say how you are bad dresser. And make you redress even if it means making you late. And then blame you for being the one who made you late to whoever. Probably will talk about how you're a horrible dresser behind your back and infront of you.

A 'blunt' person would tell you 'no it doesn't match'.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by gigij

So everyone here only lies out of social obligations, to spare peoples feelings, you know, for truly moral purposes?

No one has secrets to keep, ego to boost, wants to get something their own way ...

really ?

just me huh

If you say so ... but I'm not sure I buy it.

No, you're not the only one. I fin myself being dishonest in other situations as well. Regardless of the reason for my dishonesty, though, I always know that it is bad. Just because I believe that 100% honesty is always best, doesn't mean I'm able to always be 100% honest. I do recognize, however, that just because I am sometimes dishonest doesn't make it okay.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by pjhaggerty

I would like to hear some opinions on this quote from Robert Greene:

"Honesty is actually a blunt instrument, which bloodies more than it cuts. Your honesty is likely to offend people; it is much more prudent to tailor your words, telling people what they want to hear rather than the coarse and ugly truth of what you feel or think"

Do you think it is more important to be honest with yourself, honest with others, both, or neither? and why? Especially in the context of dealing with people who might not have the emotional maturity to handle your honest opinion constructively.

I'm too lazy to read the other replies, but here is my take on this:

For me personally it is important to be honest both with myself and with other people. Telling people what they want to hear instead of what I think is not aligned with integrity.

I think taking care not to offend or hurt other people is highly disrespectful towards them. It implies that they are weak and cannot take it. That's not a message I would like to send off to others, because it's disempowering to them. Another reason is that taking care not to offend or hurt others means taking responsibility for their feelings, which is none of my business. It would be a trespassing of their personal boundaries, which is abusive. I prefer to trust others to be able to look after themselves and to deal with their emotions no matter what I say.

As a result, I tend to be very blunt and spontaneous. I don't think it is heartless of me. On the contrary, I think it is the most loving attitude I could possibly have towards others.

If someone cannot take it, they will either grow and gain the ability to take it, which is fine with me, or run very far away from me, which is also fine with me.

Plus, who says that what we truly think is coarse and ugly? If you're a very negative person going around judging others, then what you think about them might be coarse and ugly. But the more you are in love with life and yourself, the more you also tend to think nice things about others and bring constructive criticism instead of nasty judgments. And then, your being honest is not a problem for others anymore.

Last but not least, why would it be desirable to be prudent? When you're bold, you boldly fall on your nose, but at least you learn from it. I'd rather be honest and get rejected than to hide what I truly think all of my life.

My 2cts!

[PerDev]

Honesty is THE ONLY policy which works for a Long time

Originally Posted by pjhaggerty

I would like to hear some opinions on this quote from Robert Greene:

"Honesty is actually a blunt instrument, which bloodies more than it cuts. Your honesty is likely to offend people; it is much more prudent to tailor your words, telling people what they want to hear rather than the coarse and ugly truth of what you feel or think"

Do you think it is more important to be honest with yourself, honest with others, both, or neither? and why? Especially in the context of dealing with people who might not have the emotional maturity to handle your honest opinion constructively.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by PerDev

Honesty is THE ONLY policy which works for a Long time

Understanding how the other person thinks and wants, and understanding what you yourself think and want, is the ONLY policy that works for a long time.

[Knk]

I tend to notice that there are some very wise people on Steve's forum

[Gazzali]

Originally Posted by pjhaggerty

I would like to hear some opinions on this quote from Robert Greene:

"Honesty is actually a blunt instrument, which bloodies more than it cuts. Your honesty is likely to offend people; it is much more prudent to tailor your words, telling people what they want to hear rather than the coarse and ugly truth of what you feel or think"

Do you think it is more important to be honest with yourself, honest with others, both, or neither? and why? Especially in the context of dealing with people who might not have the emotional maturity to handle your honest opinion constructively.

I think you are mixing honesty with conclusions or observations. For example, one man's preference is different from others : say choice of girl friends ..Girl A is not necessarily prefered by Man B who prefers girl C. It does not mean Girl A is not pretty. Do you thing Man B judgement is honesty? I do not think so.

You cannot attach the word' honesty' with judgement.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Gazzali

I think you are mixing honesty with conclusions or observations. For example, one man's preference is different from others : say choice of girl friends ..Girl A is not necessarily prefered by Man B who prefers girl C. It does not mean Girl A is not pretty. Do you thing Man B judgement is honesty? I do not think so.

You cannot attach the word' honesty' with judgement.

that was confusing for me to read. sometimes preferences are expressed through honesty, sometimes not. i will say honesty seems more hurtful when it is used with opinion instead of fact. most people don't get their feelings hurt if we say "the earth revolves around the sun" because it's not a personal statement. when honesty is used for something personal, feelings are more likely involved. i think honesty is the vehicle of communicating an idea, a lens for communication.