Is it possible to be a conscious employee?

[Andrew Brunelle]

Just wondering what your thoughts are on employees who are very conscious and aware, but don't go rush off to start their own business because they feel like they provide tremendous value where they are employed. I'm sure some of you would say that we could create more value working for ourselves, taken we are conscious and aware, but if we enjoy what we do and are passionate about it, where is the shame in working for someone else?

[Remiel]

Can't we also provide even more value by having a highly consciencious team in a highly consciencious business? Is everyone in the world truely suited for business? What about the employees that large companies like microsoft needs?

Are the two choices, employee and conscious, really mutually exclusive?

What about you? Will you be happy doing what you are doing for the rest of your life?

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

but if we enjoy what we do and are passionate about it, where is the shame in working for someone else?

In my opinion, there is no shame in it, why would there be?
If that is your choice, you feel happy and passionate about your job.
I personally would like to strike out on my own, whereas some of my friends are perfectly happy to work for someone else, and they are motivated to do their jobs as best as they can, they just don't see themselves as self-employed.

[brendannz]

Yep there is, but it will probably require is for your job to contribute to your greater life mission, and not be your life mission.

does that make sense?

[Brutha]

I'm sure some of you would say that we could create more value working for ourselves, taken we are conscious and aware, but if we enjoy what we do and are passionate about it, where is the shame in working for someone else?

Being self employed means that you have to deal with a lot of stuff surrounding business administration.
You have to do marketing and sales.

If you are a programmer and are employed at a company there's somebody else doing the marketing and the sales and the programmer can focus all his energies on programming.
Specialists can often create more value when they work in a team and can focus on doing those things they do really well.

[The Big D]

I don't have a problem with smart people being employees in certain types of outfits. I think many successful companies go through a phase early in their development where the company is small enough and the owners competent enough that the company is rational. Everything is being done for a good reason, and every decision is made by smart people with enough detailed vision into the company's working to foresee the consequences of the decision. Such companies can be very powerful places to work, especially if business for business' sake is not your calling.

As the company grows, either the owners are replaced (via sale or IPO) or the company becomes too big for any one person to understand its total workings. Either way, delegation occurs, and the quality of decisions drops a notch. Then, somewhere along the way, the Peter Principle kicks in, the delegatees become less competent over time, and the quality of the decisions drops another notch and take on the baffling and hostile qualities that Dilbert lampoons. Somewhere during this process it becomes impossible for a smart person to work congruently for the company.

[Manomanman]

You can be a conscious:

-drug addict
-hooker
-victim of a firing squad
-employee

As long as you go into it without denying the reality of your situation, you can do anything consciously. Example: I have consciously played MMORPGs and done drugs to alleviate suffering caused from being a wage slave. I am still trapped in wage slavery.

[Michael Chui]

Brutha captures most of what I'd say.

But beyond that, there's nothing inherently more aware or conscious about being an entrepreneur. Most snake oil salesmen are self-starters, for instance; the two have a correlation, but no causative relationship in either direction.

An employee is essentially a contractor who has exchanged mobility for security. You could as much ask if it's possible for a house-dweller to be conscious, in comparison with the bohemian wanderer.

[Manomanman]

Originally Posted by Andrew Brunelle

where is the shame in working for someone else?

If you're being payed and treated fairly, there is no shame.

The problem is that fair pay and integrity are rare benefits of having a job.

[ar81]

You work, you get paid.
That is true if you are self employed or employed.
Where is the shame on that?
Is having a job a crime?

Some people may think a job is for people who "do not want to grow".
But certainly growth depends on every person.
You may want to grow in a different way, so your job is just something you need so you do not need to care about money.

[Thomas H]

I was thinkng about this earlier today.

I think the issue for some people is that they feel they provide tremendous value and aren't being compensated fairly for it so they quit corporate jobs and venture out on their own for fairer compensation.

What do you think of this idea? In a conscious business you would be compensated by the exact amount of value you contribute to the bottom line. No arbitrary salary based on time put in but measuring the value you contribute directly.

You might have trouble measuring this, and I'm not too sure how you'd quantify that maybe someone else has an idea?

If you collaborate with people you're likely to have a higher total bottom line because if you both do good work the sum of your works together would likely be greater than individually on your own. So maybe you would just split 50% because you wouldn't have been able to achieve the sum without one another.

This goes radically against the idea that a CEO should be paid 1000x what the entry level employee makes.

I don't think there's shame in working for someone else in the situation you describe. If you're passionate and believe you're being compensated well enough for what your doing I think your fine to stay as an employee.

[Illustro Cado]

If the world is made of leaders and followers, there are very few positions for conscious people, no? If one assumes leading is the only path to conscious living. Leaders are few by definition. Everyone can't be a leader or the whole structure breaks down. You could argue that everybody could be an entrepreneur and entrepreneurs could work together via independent contracts. The thing is, a conscious employee relationship, assuming it exists, would be very much the same. That's reason enough to believe it exists: it has to.

Not everyone wants to be a leader. Not everybody is meant for that. But everyone can choose who they serve and what they will accept as adequate compensation. It is when they don't that they become victims.

[Daffy Duck]

Technically, I think we're all self-employed. We "sell" ourselves, our skills, and our time. If you take a traditional job, then you are selling yourself to be at a certain place, at a certain time, doing a certain thing. But you can always leave if you want, since you're self-employed. By leaving, you are "firing" your client and also giving up the compensation they gave you.

[Tanja]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Technically, I think we're all self-employed. We "sell" ourselves, our skills, and our time. But you can always leave if you want, since you're self-employed. By leaving, you are "firing" your client and also giving up the compensation they gave you.

Yes! I like this point of view!

[NeedMyCoffee]

If you are happy where you are, then there is no shame in it. I love my job. I make a great wage, have a great boss and the owner and CEO of the company are fantastic people that truly care about others. They market, something I would not like to do (BTDT). Others do the paper work, again, something I don't want to do. Yes, as a business owner I could hire someone to do these things. Some people think it is worth it, others don't.

Just because you work for a company doesn't mean you aren't a leader. I am a leader, but I am not top dog. That is fine with me, especially in my industry. It takes all types to make the world an interesting place.

[Brutha]

I think the issue for some people is that they feel they provide tremendous value and aren't being compensated fairly for it so they quit corporate jobs and venture out on their own for fairer compensation.

What do you think of this idea? In a conscious business you would be compensated by the exact amount of value you contribute to the bottom line. No arbitrary salary based on time put in but measuring the value you contribute directly.

No. Primarily caring about money isn't conscious.

The question is whether being in the business increases your ability to live your purpose and change the world or whether it reduces that ability.

You might have trouble measuring this, and I'm not too sure how you'd quantify that maybe someone else has an idea?

Pay for performance is one of the most harmful ideas of the last decades.
It makes people close minded and focused on the wrong things.

[redblacktree]

Originally Posted by Brutha

No. Primarily caring about money isn't conscious.

The question is whether being in the business increases your ability to live your purpose and change the world or whether it reduces that ability.
Pay for performance is one of the most harmful ideas of the last decades.
It makes people close minded and focused on the wrong things.

I'm interested in this idea. Can you elaborate on how pay for performance is harmful?

[Michael Chui]

It puts a number on the wrong things.

If you could perfectly and holistically quantify someone's performance, then there's nothing wrong with this. But you can't, so you not only fail to appropriately compensate everyone, but you additionally start encouraging the wrong motivators.

Amazon.com: Punished By Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise, and Other Bribes (0046442001816): Alfie Kohn: Books

[Brutha]

If you could perfectly and holistically quantify someone's performance, then there's nothing wrong with this.

No, there it still would encourage in-the-box thinking.
See Dan Pink on the surprising science of motivation | Video on TED.com
Rewards narrow the focus. Sometimes narrow focus on a goal is beneficial but it discourages thinking outside-of-the box.

People who are intrinsically motivated do better than people who are extrinsically motivated at the important tasks.
Having a purpose in life is important.

But additional the problem also lies in putting incentives on the wrong things. You can't measure quality.
Say a manager that uses a Russian roulette like technique to that has a 10% chance to crash a 1 billion dollar and a 90% chance to make 10 million for the company.

Say he gets 10% of the 10 million as bonus but when he crashes the country he gets no bonus and loses his job.

Especially before the crisis, a lot of those banking people who played the Russian roulette strategy with their companies got well rewarded and were seen as ideal to aspire to.

And as Nassim Taleb describes, those bankers who draw the 10% can say:
"Nobody could foresee that the Russians default on their foreign debt so I'm not responsible.."
"Nobody could foresee 9/11 so I'm not responsible."
"Nobody could foresee the subprime crisis so I'm not responsible."
It generally easy to convince people that nobody could have predicted that 10% event because in reality there were 100 different 0.1% events and one of those happened.

[bluedragon]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

But you can always leave if you want, since you're self-employed. By leaving, you are "firing" your client and also giving up the compensation they gave you.

So a conscious employee who decides to quit his job would say to his boss "You're fired!", right ?

[Brutha]

So a conscious employee who decides to quit his job would say to his boss "You're fired!", right ?

Being conscious isn't about being showy.

[brendannz]

Yes, I think it is possible to be a conscious employee

but is it possible to enjoy being an employee? Yes, but it's unlikely.

I know this one guy who was a bit of a geek at high school, and now he works for shell oil, and says "we're not just about money, we're about people as well" and he had a facebook update "I am working overtime again because it is fun and there are always ways to add value to your company"

So he was a happy employee, but maybe not a conscious one.