the venus project

[AlexH]

Dailymotion - The Venus Project - Designing The Future - VO - une vidéo Actu et Politique

I love living in this time.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Sounds interesting indeed. Nice ideas.

[ar81]

The problem I see with Venus project is that there is no connection between the problem and the proposed solution.

Is technology the solution?
In the past, about 35% of Americans were farmers.
Technology increased efficiency of agriculture and today between 2% and 3% are farmers.
Are the remaining 33% of Americans having just spare time because machines do the job for them? No.
They have had to look for another job or they will not have food on the table.
It means technology and automation causes unemployment.
Those who own the technology will get the money, and you will have a technocracy with full unemployment and poverty.

Resource based economy?
This is exactly what the Russians tried to implement in USSR with communist revolution.
I once discussed the idea of Venus project with a very smart Russian.
He said that they already tried and failed.

Religion is seen as an evil thing by Venus Project.
But if you dig in the past, it was responsible for generating most of the knowledge and technology.
For example Pythagoras had a sect that studied the properties of numbers.
The legacy in mathematics we inherited is very valuable in the design of technology.

Lack of government? Well, do not worry, with their proposal, technocracy and unemployment will prevail.
So there will be a virtual government of technocrats.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by ar81

The problem I see with Venus project is that there is no connection between the problem and the proposed solution...

10 Reasons You Should Never Get a Job

EDIT: I'm not trying to be smart and convience you into starting a business since I'm planning to get a job myself, for a short while or not. But at least consider what you said from that perspective.

[AlexH]

You make some excellent points. They are the points that everyone has myself included. When I view the world that we live in and share now I think of how we got here. I mean the current state of the world.
How many wars have started because you don`t have the same god as me or same religious beliefs?
As for money and unemployment I can`t help but notice the amounts of money related crimes are committed each year?
The unwanted unnessesary stress it puts on people...and not to mention the debt it creates to make someone work a job that they hate to pay back a loan that was suppose to increase the quality of life. but if you are of the 1% then this means nothing to you.

In the history of the world, I don`t want humans to be viewed as a discrace. Future generations we look back and shake there head...if there is future generations.

I mean can you believe that humans thought the earth was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, and if you didn`t believe that you were presumed to be a witch and burned. Or that time when people thought that when you had an illness it must be a demon that entered your body and the only way to get better was to put 50 leeches on various parts of your body. Even on the dick
we have come a long way...that things will never be perfect, it is pointless to try....the good thing about us humans is we learn from our mistakes, that is how we got the light bulb.

I don`t know if I will think the same tomorrow or next year or 5 years from now, but I feel like I am living in a time of great discovery and enlightenment
You know more than me though.
wisdom comes with age and I am only 25 so I have a lot to learn.

The whole world is my country
and love is my religion.

we all see the world in different views, I am glad that I have clean water,,,and hot water like instantly....

Imagine if that Imagine song by John Lennon was true..... have a listen to refresh the memory John Lennon - Imagine Video by Michael - MySpace Video


now don`t you feel better

[Nayon]

I think the Venus project will be our next big step in our evolution. Tru, there is no ''intermediary'' step from our point of view, but I think it is because we have some pieces of the picture missing. Some say that our present system is being engeneered to crash, to be replaced by something like the Venus project which, in its right time, will seem like the logical thing to do. Look at the latest film from Michael Moore; ''Capitalism, a love story'' which apparently introduce the popular idea of the end of this money system, which is pretty much on the way since 2008.

If we look at technology as an unemployment factor, we are absolutly right, and that is the beauty of it. The problem is that we live in a society who use money as a control mechanism and this has to go. Having less ''physical work'' because of technology is not a problem if money does not exist, you then do what you want to do in life, music, dance, painting, learning, meeting people and exchange experiences, going places.

The problem in its application is purely moral. Will people abuse the system if everything is made free? Not if collectively we move from a ''me first, the other one later...maybe'' to a ''the other first'' mentality, and for that, we need a spiritual evolution to support this new society, which is a very tangible thing. It is misleading to compare the Venus project to anything the Russians did, because every attempts at something remotly similar was made within a ''money system''. In reality, their ''pretend version'' of socialism was only a scam to bring a majority under an olygarchy, a false belief that the needs of the people would be met, a sales pitch, which was on no list of any government priorities at any time of history.

I guess then that the Venus project is best viewed in the context of the Zeitgeist movement mentality of a cashless society. Think of the Star Trek series. Have you heard one of them saying they were in Star Fleet for the money or the bonus? In the United States today, the top 1% owns as much as the 95% bottom. What's logical in this? The problem is that we let the 1% decide what's good for the 95% of us. This has to change, because the 1% doesn't give a f***k about us or the planet.

[StudiumSquarePantz]

To reply to ar81:
To answer some of your questions and statements

-------"It means technology and automation causes unemployment. Those who own the technology will get the money, and you will have a technocracy with full unemployment and poverty."

Many people fear rapid technological developments, especially automated and cybernated machines, replacing human beings. To be fair, some of these fears are justified in a monetary system where rapid increases in production technology require fewer workers.

Science and technology create none of our problems. Our problems arise from human abuse and misuse of other people, the environment, and technology. In a more humane civilization (ie a Resource-Based Economy), machines are used to shorten the workday, increase the availability of goods and services, and lengthen vacation time. New technology is used to raise the standard of living for everyone, and in this way, increasing the use of machine technology serves to benefit all people.

Money is just an interference between what one needs and what one is able to get. It is not money that people need, it is access to resources. A resource-based economy uses resources rather than money, and people have access to whatever they need without the use of money, credit, barter, or any other form of debt or servitude.

Therefore more technology and no money means NO poverty!

-------"Resource based economy? This is exactly what the Russians tried to implement in USSR with communist revolution."

Firstly, the Definition of Communism reads: "Advocacy of a classless society in which private ownership has been abolished and the means of production and subsistence belong to the community. In practice a single authoritarian party controls both the political and economic systems."

Communism has money, banks, armies, police, prisons, charismatic personalities, social stratification, and is managed by appointed leaders.
A RESOURCE-BASED ECONOMY has:
NO Government, NO Laws, NO Currency, NO Trade or Barter, NO Police, NO Military, NO Nuclear Weapons, NO Crime. The Venus Project emphasizes that this approach to global governance has nothing whatever in common with the present aims of an elite to form a world government with themselves and large corporations at the helm, and the vast majority of the world's population subservient to them. Their vision of globalization empowers each and every person on the planet to be the best they can be, not to live in abject subjugation to a corporate governing body.

A resource-based world economy would also involve all-out efforts to develop new, clean, and renewable sources of energy: geothermal; controlled fusion; solar; photovoltaic; wind, wave, and tidal power; and even fuel from the oceans. We would eventually be able to have energy in unlimited quantity that could propel civilization for thousands of years. A resource-based economy must also be committed to the redesign of our cities, transportation systems, and industrial plants, allowing them to be energy efficient, clean, and conveniently serve the needs of all people.

Doesn't sound like Communism at all to me. Communism (or any other economic system for that matter) is all about MONEY and PROFIT.

-------"Religion is seen as an evil thing by Venus Project."

No it's not. You obviously have not done proper research about the Venus Project and what a Resource-Based Economy is. The Venus Project states that everyone is free to practice whatever belief system they have but can not force it upon others. Everyone can go anywhere they want to without restrictions of any kind. If they fail to behave constructively they are helped rather than put in prison or punished.

This will not interfere with their religious beliefs, social customs of traditions. These can not be forced out, you can only educate out beliefs that are irrelevant. TVP prefers to use that approach rather than a military one. Although it may take longer, TVP feels they will eventually see the advantages of this point of view of joining together and sharing resources, just as all of the United States joined together and the fighting between borders stopped. TVP is not against religion because everyone is entitled to believe and worship whatever they wish, the problem is trying to force that beliefs on others that are not interested.

-------"Lack of government? Well, do not worry, with their proposal, technocracy and unemployment will prevail."

Lack of Government is not a bad thing. Machines can easily replace humans in government and in the management of world affairs. This does not represent a take-over by machines, as some people might fear. Instead, the gradual transfer of decision-making to machine intelligence. Computerized systems are more effective because of the number of sensors they have. Automated control can happen when sensors are installed in every conceivable location and linked through a worldwide network of computers.

It is most significant when we all understand that what is blatantly missing in today’s society is the intelligent management of Earth’s resources, and that most problems can be solved when technology is used wisely. TVP proposes the use of scientific method and having computers get direct feedback from the environment. Computers would have electrical sensors extended into all areas of the social complex around the globe.

Decisions are then arrived at using direct feedback from the environment. The result would be a more humane and meaningful civilization that is not based on the opinions or desires of a particular sect or individual. These machines would provide information rather than opinion, thus considerably reducing the influence of bias and irrational or purely emotional elements in how affairs are managed.

So I'm all for The Venus Project! It sounds like a good idea to me!

[WarrenG]

If we insist on living in interconnected complex societies, which I'm not all that sure is the best and most human way to go to be honest, it's clear we need a lot more practice.

I think we've got a lot of learning and growing to do as a race before something like this would work as intended.

Name one world issue at the moment that can't be traced back to central control in some way. Maybe there are a few that aren't, but all the biggies are.

The Venus project seeks to further centralise, to the point where every single thing is centrally controlled. The global resource distributor or whatever it's called.

Power corrupts, and if you create something with as much power as that, some people will want it.

The idea has some good points, for sure, and it's great that people are actually thinking about different ways of living, because it seems people take this current system for granted and are unable to envision anything else. So I hope they continue in their efforts. But we can't get there from here.

On the other hand, it has bad points. It goes even further in sucking the meaning out of life than our current society does. Everything's so... safe... the system takes care of you so there's no pulling together to help the local community. I don't imagine human beings would feel very alive in that sort of environment.

[Brutha]

A RESOURCE-BASED ECONOMY has:
NO Government, NO Laws, NO Currency, NO Trade or Barter, NO Police, NO Military, NO Nuclear Weapons, NO Crime.

The Venus project proposes a giant computer system that makes central decisions.

Decisions are then arrived at using direct feedback from the environment.

We live in a world where there's no direct feedback for a lot of important decisions.
It can take years till you get your feedback.

That's especially true for the massive technological project that the Venus Project proposes.

[Midnightpolicy]

The problem IS money itself, its flawed and for good reason. Those men at the top of the hill have a hard time enslaving the general population if they don't have a means of control. Debt is that means. Whole wars rage on because of corporate agendas and people just sit at home eating their genetically modified processed chemical ridden food the 3% percent of farmers in america produce while only worrying about whether the rolling blackouts will affect their fill of late night television. The average citizen spends most of his "thinking" time about how to avoid foreclosure or their car getting repossessed, this makes them more compliant and complacent because the society we are spoon fed from birth doesn't allow time to question the authority that's forced upon us. We choose to ignore our birthright as human being's and our punishment for our ignorance is slavery and removal of our rights. We used to employ our politicians and public servants (try to take that name at face value) but failed to realize that as a nation, citizens, neighbors, friends and family we had the ability to remove those not concerned with our best interest, now whole elections and campaigns are corrupt and rotten to the core. We replaced splinters in our side with a knife under our ribs, it will take more then just effort now to fix things, it will take sacrifices, ones I feel most in America are too blind or selfish to make. They made us addicts to the worst tendencies in humans, violence, control, domination, greed, fear, unhealthy sexual behavior and many more, just look around with an open eye you can see all of them. As for religion? well it was just turned into another control mechanism, it rules and dominates its followers with fear; fear of going to hell, fear of accumulating sins, fear of persecution, fear of facing God when you die. The only thing man should worry about is facing his own self when our mortal coil does eventually run out, we are the masters of our own demise or prosperity. Everything we need to know can be found in nature, we are the only beings on Earth that worry about praising God in the manner that other men lay out for us and that distraction alone distracts us from the true meaning of life... to live it in whatever manner we see fit.

Anyways....

They made the rules,we chooseto play their game. There is no need for all of these organizations with their false hopes and false prophets. We are all part of an organization, its called Humankind and the playing board is planet Earth.

[forexpreneur]

To me personally the Venus Project is just another idea of controll and we have plenty of that going on these days. It doesn't even sound good to me because other people would be making entirely too many decisions in my life.

For crying out loud, there is far too much of that going on now with our Governments and very, very little is actually in regards of our wants or needs but instead to the highest bidder. Er, I mean lobbyist.

Count me out.

[shadowfax]

I just watched a program called "Future by Design" on Netflix talking about Jacque. I think overall he isn't trying to control anything. He just makes decent points that for us to change faster we need to change our environment. I think he might have some views that aren't perfect but I much prefer to have men and women like this in our world trying to make it better than the millions that just fight and are egotistical and do nothing but complain and be victims.

What the netflix documentary... it was interesting.

[Nbax]

Who would control us then? The men behind the machines? What for? Money?
Oh wait.. no not money...

Power?
Why would people need power if they can have everything to fulfill their needs?
DO NOT forget technology would improve much faster due to no economic restrictions

People would actually want to help this system because it helps them back
There wouldn't be a need to "pay" them back as their payment would be a better system.