Why we Follow GOD: Is it because we love him? Or we fear him?

[rak]

Why we Follow GOD: Is it because we love him? Or we fear him? « Rakito’s Mill

[spirit4711]

Some of us don't follow God (pun intended ).

[aggie]

some of us follow because we believe He is our Father and we do love Him and believe He is the Way.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Some of us don't follow God (pun intended ).

Everybody follows a god conciously or unconciously, it's just that most do not know which god they worrship by lliving in a state of non-worshipping!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Everybody follows a god conciously or unconciously, it's just that most do not know which god they worrship by lliving in a state of non-worshipping!

Never heard of atheists and agnostics? Or do they follow a non existing god?

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Never heard of atheists and agnostics? Or do they follow a non existing god?

There are only two sides of the story and there is never a grey area, it does not matter if you call one side god, force, eternity etc. The only thing is that you are with us or with them

[spirit4711]

"I don't want to be a member of a club that accepts me." - Groucho Marx

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

"I don't want to be a member of a club that accepts me." - Groucho Marx

That is the same old spirit4711 wont move with the crowd even when the crowd is moving in the right direction! always a lone ranger.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by newsbone

That is the same old spirit4711 wont move with the crowd even when the crowd is moving in the right direction! always a lone ranger.

Take the course opposite to the norm and you will almost always do well. The right direction for you, does not equal the right direction for everyone. There is something to be said about someone that does not follow the crowd. The individuals most people follow are usually not right in the first place. There is a lot to learn from " the blind leading the blind". There is a reason he said that, and that teaching seems to escape even his devout students.

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go aimlessly hither and thither, like blind led by the blind.

[JSB]

Originally Posted by newsbone

There are only two sides of the story and there is never a grey area, it does not matter if you call one side god, force, eternity etc. The only thing is that you are with us or with them

I think one of the greatest limiting beliefs common to many human beings is there is that "there are two sides to every story".

In most situations, there are many more than two sides.

[aggie]

there's always going to be a group of people going in the same direction and it doesn't mean they are following someone....they could all just have the same truth or way ahead of them.

and, a thousand people could go in a thousand different directions and could all end up at a different spot, yes?

but going in the opposite direction just to prove a point can be tricky!

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by aggie

there's always going to be a group of people going in the same direction and it doesn't mean they are following someone....they could all just have the same truth or way ahead of them.

and, a thousand people could go in a thousand different directions and could all end up at a different spot, yes?

but going in the opposite direction just to prove a point can be tricky!

People get their direction from someone. Knowledge didn't just fall into their laps. It doesn't matter what it is, people ARE following someone, one way or another. Be it if that person is alive, or long gone and buried. There is only one truth. Either you have it, or you don't, and no one can decide what that truth is.

They even say that there are only +-32 distinct personalities. So we can even go as far as saying that maybe similar personalities are drawn to the same thing? Either way tho, you don't know, and I don't know. Anyone that claims they know is lying.

[lifetimelearner]

hey I know that I don't know !

now what was the subject again ?

[aggie]

well, some people believe that their faith IS enough for them to know...it all depends how strongly that runs in someone, regardless of what it is, regardless of what you or i, or anyone thinks...that is THEIR truth and their way. those who feel that they have truly found it cannot be dissuaded or shaken. if someone has doubts....they will take the challange as an opportunity to learn, expand and explore and go from there.

[lifetimelearner]

I was just joking around

If there was/ is a God I would want to follow because of love for him/her/it and not have fear anywhere near the equation

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by aggie

well, some people believe that their faith IS enough for them to know...it all depends how strongly that runs in someone, regardless of what it is, regardless of what you or i, or anyone thinks...that is THEIR truth and their way. those who feel that they have truly found it cannot be dissuaded or shaken. if someone has doubts....they will take the challange as an opportunity to learn, expand and explore and go from there.

Truth is always belief but belief can not always be truth. If most of our lives, all we see is 5% truth through all the fog, then how can anyone say that their truth is the complete truth? There is something to be said about blind faith and faith through truth. Ask anyone if they think that most of what they know is not the truth. They'll respond with saying that their faith tells them that their beliefs are the truth ( I'm not talking about religion in general). Faith does not equal truth. You can have faith that you will meet god if you kill your self, and many people have such strong faith that they actually do it. Does that mean it's true? Humans distorted perception and absolute lack of sight does not allow for faith to so easily equal truth.

Truth is truth no matter what anyone says or thinks. Nothing or no one can change that.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

I was just joking around

If there was/ is a God I would want to follow because of love for him/her/it and not have fear anywhere near the equation

Please don't bring fear up lol. That will just bring the inevitable " No true Scotsman" debate....

Fine.... o_O... I'll answer for them. A "real" believer has no fear. There, I said it.

[lifetimelearner]

why not bring up fear that was the whole basis of the question ?

following something out of fear is reduckulus !

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

why not bring up fear that was the whole basis of the question ?

following something out of fear is reduckulus !

yeah I know lol but I'm trying to stay away from it. Every time fear is brought up, it is also brought up that anyone that follows god from fear is not truly following god. They are " not real christians" or "not true christians" which is where "No true Scotsman" comes into play.

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

yeah I know lol but I'm trying to stay away from it. Every time fear is brought up, it is also brought up that anyone that follows god from fear is not truly following god. They are " not real christians" or "not true christians" which is where "No true Scotsman" comes into play.

“Love is what we were born with. Fear is what we learned here.”-Marianne Williamson

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

“Love is what we were born with. Fear is what we learned here.”

I personally feel this is one of her better quotes....

"Some men know that a light touch of the tongue, running from a woman's toes to her ears, lingering in the softest way possible in various places in between, given often enough and sincerely enough, would add immeasurably to world peace. "

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

"Some men know that a light touch of the tongue, running from a woman's toes to her ears, lingering in the softest way possible in various places in between, given often enough and sincerely enough, would add immeasurably to world peace. "

love it !!
and now I need a cigarette

ps kidding I do not smoke nor do I advocate it

[Time]

Originally Posted by newsbone

There are only two sides of the story and there is never a grey area, it does not matter if you call one side god, force, eternity etc. The only thing is that you are with us or with them

There are never only two sides to a story.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by Time

There are never only two sides to a story.

Of course there is . Truth, and lies. One lie is the same as a million. There can not be more then one true story, period. One story is true, and all the others are a lie. But, who has the true story? You? Them? Sure as hell not I. So then why does everyone go around like they know the absolute empirical truth?

[aggie]

but whether everyone believes it or not, follows it or not, one truth is what most people that have faith in God, follow.

you know, that you know, that you know that you know.

it doesn't work for everyone...but it simple and sufficient for many.

sometimes one can complicate life with too many questions and too many many truths to answer them.

maybe it is those that have just not found their way....whatever that might be, are the ones that find it so difficult to believe in anything completely...

i think that scares some people, that things may follow a certain way, path, truth, whatever you want to call it.

a narrow path is more difficult.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by aggie

but whether everyone believes it or not, follows it or not, one truth is what most people that have faith in God, follow.

you know, that you know, that you know that you know.

it doesn't work for everyone...but it simple and sufficient for many.

sometimes one can complicate life with too many questions and too many many truths to answer them.

maybe it is those that have just not found their way....whatever that might be, are the ones that find it so difficult to believe in anything completely...

i think that scares some people, that things may follow a certain way, path, truth, whatever you want to call it.

a narrow path is more difficult.

The truth that they believe to be the truth is what they follow. That does not make it the truth. Faith does not make it the truth either, as I can find people who have more faith and belief in more truth then you, who you'd either describe as wrong or mentally insane.

The only thing that scares people is succumbing to a belief that one single book is the complete and utter truth of everything in existence. No, it's not about being afraid of finding the truth. Humans know that they are very susceptible to these types of things. At one point, I absolutely denied that anything in the bible could possibly NOT be the word of god, and I fought tooth and nail against anyone that suggested it. There in lies blind faith, and people area afraid of succumbing to blind faith. We have enough blind faith in the world with out even knowing about it, let alone actively seeking out MORE blind faith. I don't' know how long it's been since you've been on the other side of this game, but maybe you need to reach back into your memory so you can understand how other people feel. Put away your one and only truth, and imagine for a second that maybe someone has just as much truth as you in something else, and just as much faith.

People take the teachings of the great masters of old, and take their stories as not only gospel, but history. They were NOT trying to teach you history. They were trying to teach you how to live your life. Superstition is just another way of telling a story. Whether god is real or not, I don't understand why it makes him any less of a god if everything in the bible was meant to be life lessons, and not history. What, he no longer has super powers enough to create events like the great flood? The universe isn't enough of an amazing creation for you? I've been on both sides, and have returned. I was a devout christian, and I was a very strong atheist. Now I'm free and clean from the lies of either side and can discover the real truth of both. No more need to perceive things the way other people perceive them. They are all wrong, and so am I, but I would rather be wrong on MY terms, then to follow someone elses.

I don't fault you for feeling the way you do. It's a strong feeling, trust me, I know that. Whether the bible is truth or not, why do you feel your perception of that truth IS true? (Now I'm not trying to mock you or belittle you, so please don't take it that way. If you can truly believe that a person can have a sudden change, then believe that I have, and read from my posts only my own honesty.) Why do you feel that your teachers, pastors, and families perception of that truth is true? Because you have a personal relationship with god? Did he tell you that everything you read in it is not only true, but literal, or did he tell you which things were or weren't literal? Aren't we all gods children, and a part of god the way Jesus described himself as being? Why can't that be his message? When and why did we have to fall away from god, and how are we powerful enough to actually go away from him? That means we have more power then god himself, or at the very least have SOME power which is stronger then his power.

[aggie]

i am not at all offended.

but i would never presume that someone that has more truths than i, however you know that they do, is wrong or insane.

i really don't care.

if it is their truth and it works for them, i am fine with it.

i am glad you have found your way thru everything that you felt muddied your path and are strong and content with your feelings....

everyone is different. no one should assume that because i feel the way i do that i have arrested spiritual development. or that i have some kind of animosity towards someone that doesn't feel the way i do. as i said, i don't care. i care about my fellow man, but not to where i feel the need to sway anyone to the way i feel.

by the way, no offense, jamesbiz, you sound kinda like a scientologist....

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by aggie

by the way, no offense, jamesbiz, you sound kinda like a scientologist....

Do explain, as I've never read a single thing about scientology before. Other then of course the few things mentioned here and there on threads.

[aggie]

well, from what i understand, scientologist believe that they are "god" within themselves and the power comes from within themselves for their accomplishments in life.

if there are scientologists out there that can articulate this better, please feel free....i am not stating the above as a fact..just the explanations i have heard and my interpretation of what they were saying.

my husband tried it long before i met him and was able to get out before what he considered the heavy handed kind of "brainwashing" took place....

no offense...just not my thing in life...you know tom cruise and all...

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by aggie

well, from what i understand, scientologist believe that they are "god" within themselves and the power comes from within themselves for their accomplishments in life.

if there are scientologists out there that can articulate this better, please feel free....i am not stating the above as a fact..just the explanations i have heard and my interpretation of what they were saying.

my husband tried it long before i met him and was able to get out before what he considered the heavy handed kind of "brainwashing" took place....

no offense...just not my thing in life...you know tom cruise and all...

I don't believe in god tho lol