Do we all have the same goal?

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Are we all here on earth to grow?

I mean if we are all part of the same consciousness, what is the purpose of this consciouness? grow?

Then the only reason we are here would be to raise our consciouness. The same goal as Steve actually.

That would sure make it much easier to find our life purpose, even if there are lots of ways to grow/raise our consiousness.

Is it what we are here for?

[CasBit]

Originally Posted by theknightwhosaysni-NI

Are we all here on earth to grow?

I mean if we are all part of the same consciousness, what is the purpose of this consciouness? grow?

Then the only reason we are here would be to raise our consciouness. The same goal as Steve actually.

That would sure make it much easier to find our life purpose, even if there are lots of ways to grow/raise our consiousness.

Is it what we are here for?

Your natural purpose in life is to raise children safely until they have children.
Beyond that, you are asking a question humanity's most brilliant philosophers and scholars have be unable answer, so good luck.

Tom

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

I ask this question also for individual purposes.
I mean, Steve has written articles about "how to find your life purpose in 20 mn" and so, and the idea of finding one's life purpose is recurrent in this forum.

When Steve says is purpose is to "grow and help others grow", I was just wondering if actually we are not supposed to have that precise same goal. Everyone.

[mtrimpe]

I believe we definitely have goals, but we should see them as the goals of a collective consciousness. We are, as a whole, exactly the same as an individual. We have goals that are slowly shifting end evolving.

At present we just aren't very well aligned with their realization so it's not very noticeable. At a collective consciousness level we are still like a person with so many inner conflicts that he is still unable to manifest his true desires.

As for a true end goal ... I don't know ... do you know what your end goal will be? Does anyone ever now what their end goal will be? When you've reached your end goal, will there be no more goals? Is then not our end goal by definition the end of goal-orientation?

[Liara Covert]

My first thought about true goal would be survival, and then I'd add life-long learning. I also agree with mtrimpe's idea that we share the goal of raising awareness or collective consciousness. This is a spiritual side of purpose. Anyone read the Celestine Prophecy book series by author James Redfield?

[Love]

I think so, yes. If you look at the thread, "What's your life purpose?" (or something like that) it seems like everyone's goal is to become capable, good, happy people who help other people become capable, good, happy people.

[Mark Lapierre]

I'd just like to make a distinction between a goal and a purpose. A goal is something you aim towards, a purpose is something you do, continually.

We all have many individual goals, but for those who believe in a purpose, or have chosen one, there is usually only one.

What you're talking about here is a universal purpose, and one which assumes premeditation; that we exist for a reason. You also assume (or believe) we are all part of the same consciousness. If that's the case, then yes, the main purpose of our existence is experience. We are the One Consciousness experiencing existence in all its myriad forms. That involves raising our consciousness, but it also includes lowering out consciousness, and experiencing things that we usually label as 'bad' or 'evil'.

I don't believe that, I believe we're here not for any specific purpose, but that we can choose what we want to do. And ultimately the best choice is the same as those who believe we are all one, because that seems the path most likely to result in happiness for all. So my chosen purpose is also to grow and experience as much as I can, in positive ways, while helping others to do the same.

[Liara Covert]

I think the idea of having one life purpose is misleading or inaccurate for many people. If we're meant to evolve and learn throughout our lives, I think we can have different kinds of purposes and different sense of goals during different life phases.

I like Mark Lapierre's definitions, but I'd expand. I'd describe a purpose as a key reason why we feel we exist. I don't necessarily see a purpose as continual. People experience revelations about a sense of purpose and may clarify or change it throughout their lives. We associate purpose with components of an identity; perhaps our personal life (partner, family, children); a career where we give back; a spiritual connection to something beyond us. Some of our purposes appear ephemeral, others appear more enduring. Some are purely individual and others would also be considered collective, such as universal consciousness.

Consider Rick Warren and his questions in his book, "The Purpose-Driven Life." Although William Shakespeare states "The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose," the God described within the pages of the Bible might see its purpose as teaching lessons which may or may not relate to something evil. The intention and result of a purpose then, can vary as well.

"Myth is an attempt to narrate a whole human experience, of which the purpose is too deep, going too deep in the blood and soul, for mental explanation or description.” -D.H. Lawrence

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

yep, thanks for the distinction between goal and purpose. I am not a native English speaker and did not know exactly the difference between these words.

When i said "do we all have the same goal?" I actually meant "do we all have the same purpose?"

I don't think that experiencing bad or evil things are part of the general purpose if there is one. Bad and evil things might be necessary to some extent so that we know what to avoid. We need to suffer in order to know how good it is not to suffer.
Bad experiences are like a "tool" to grow but not an end in themselves or things we want to experience or we want to do.

I am not so ok with the idea that we are here to "experience" actually. I would rather like the idea that we are here to learn.
If Consciouness creates everything, we create whatever we want, and it is better for our joy to create things that help us grow and raise our consciousness. Earth could then be a "learning field" to try, do mistakes and learn from them.
Suffering, evil, bad things are just things that tell us that we are not heading in the right direction, so it is helpful, but not an end in itself. (well to me)

Hope I am understandable.

[Mark Lapierre]

That makes sense NiKnight

Liara's clarification is a good one, and it reflects yours and my differing opinions. It seems you believe that we exist because of Consciousness which created everything, whereas I believe we just exist, but not because of, or created by, anything but chance.

So this could be why you're not ok with the idea that we're here to experience; perhaps you feel there's a reason for us being here, and experience on its own isn't a satisfactory reason.

Whereas I don't believe we were created for a reason, so I'm not satisfied with any purpose attributed to an external source.

But I do agree that learning, growing, and raising our consciousness (in a pragmatic rather than spiritual sense), are good ways to live our lives.

[wilsonng]

Do we have the same goal? no.

I think goals are as individual as each person. We all have different aspirations and as they say what is sauce for the goose is poison to the gander, or something to that effect.

Some see success in a fast moving life. See aspire for serenity.

[Shaden]

If you believe in subjectivism it would certainly seem that way. Every human being is an extension of your consciousness so they're purpose must have some relation to yours unless you intend otherwise. And indeed if you look at the majority of peoples purposes they all have similar underlying themes of happiness, joy, peace, development and harmony.

[esn]

"I am enthusiastic over humanity’s extraordinary and sometimes very timely ingenuities." Buckminster Fuller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In pre-industrial America (and Europe) humanity struggled to survive - there was little time for personal growth : Growth is Good - Harvard Magazine (January-February 2006).

Do you think personal growth is the industrial revolution of humanity's future ?

Best Wishes,
Eric

[Love]

[Do you think personal growth is the industrial revolution of humanity's future ?]


Interesting thought.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by esn

Do you think personal growth is the industrial revolution of humanity's future ?

My first thought is response to this question was, "it doesn't seem as if we're in the midst of a revolution, but then if we were, would we realise it?" It seems the same thing happened during the Industrial Revolution, and there was a group of people who did realise, and did try to help it along. In that respect we could be in the midst of a revolution, and many people here are the ones trying to help it along.

Very interesting proposition Eric, and one worth investigating.

[Liara Covert]

I'm fascinated by Eric's suggestion that personal growth may be considered the beginning of a futuristic revolution. I also agree with Mark that we don't necessarily notice changes going on right around us, even if we're involved.

The industrial revolution certainly transformed the world because it helped human beings expand their views of limits and potential. That historic era taught people that complex and radical socio-economic changes could have a domino effect in ways that could enable them to enhance other areas of life. These changes were varied and based on initiatives outside themselves.

If we turn to the impact of personal growth and self-help initiatives, this modern industry develops offshoots in alternative medicine, spirituality and other areas which enable people to expand on what they think they know and change from inside. Personal growth reveals we have potential to transform how we see and learn about ourselves and the world. People may forget that a sudden change is actually a synonym for 'revolution.'

[chunter]

What's the purpose of (your) life? Well, what have you been doing? There's your purpose. You'll always have a purpose whether or not you realize it's significance to you at that particular moment in space-time. But remember, hindsight's 20/20. Maybe you're just not far enough down the path, so to speak; Keep growing and give it time. I've seen how my life is evolving to become a cohesive, comprehensive unit. I see meaning and significance everywhere I look. I've had experience that has made me realize that we weave life like a tapestry. If you desire meaning in your life, as your mind's eye comes into focus, you'll find it everywhere you look.

[songwriter]

I think everyone's goal is to be loved, to feel loved, to love, sex, etc... there's a lot of nuances to it. But it's all the same.

[toptemp]

Originally Posted by CasBit

Your natural purpose in life is to raise children safely until they have children.
Beyond that, you are asking a question humanity's most brilliant philosophers and scholars have be unable answer, so good luck.

Tom

Why do so many think that the most brilliant philosophers haven't answered these tough questions? ...maybe we just think they are unanswerable and aren't looking for the answers.

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by toptemp

Why do so many think that the most brilliant philosophers haven't answered these tough questions? ...maybe we just think they are unanswerable and aren't looking for the answers.

Or, as some people's subjective experiences lead them to believe they've found the answer, so some philosopher's subjective investigations lead them to believe there is no answer to be found.

Or we're asking the wrong question.

[songwriter]

The answer is maybe that we're DNA wanting to be eternal so to us to have children with still that DNA, etc. We are like the spermatozoids.... and the DNA is the eternal thing... since billions of years ago.

But as we can trick this with contraceptives... it's somewhat different. But still we're attracted to people that would fit our DNA best to reproduce, etc. even if we don't want kids at all!. It's on our DNA. So we still behave this way. We behave like if we wanted to have a lot of children or so when we mostly do not want it. That makes us want to be loved, rich, beautiful or whatever...

We're quite pathetic... DNA does what he want with us...

[Mitalp]

Our goal is to raise consciouness. When you get to a certain level in your consciouness, you come to realize that we all have the same purpose as well. Our purpose is to give back to the Universe. The way you give back to the Universe is by following you passions in life. Deep down inside we all know what our passions are. Find them and follow them...

[Liara Covert]

Hi Mitalp,

Do you think that other than the consciousness you desribe, that your underlying sense of purpose really changes or, do you think that you condition yourself to think it changes because of distractions in this world?

[Sunnybayes]

Originally Posted by songwriter

The answer is maybe that we're DNA wanting to be eternal so to us to have children with still that DNA, etc. We are like the spermatozoids.... and the DNA is the eternal thing... since billions of years ago.

I'd agree with songwriter on this one. But then what is the purpose of evolution and how did it start?

A creature exists because it could take advantage of its environment the most to make the most copies of itself.
That the reason for life is to live, and to sustain itself. Like its own little bubble of order amid the disorder of the universe. Like life is there to battle against the heat death of the universe and the law of thermodynamics which say that disorder is always increasing in the total system, so its there to fight that.

So that then maybe, the point of life is to increase the rate of heat death [lol, or decrease it]?

Also I like the DNA idea because it also fits with

Our goal is to raise consciousness.

Our purpose is to give back to the Universe.

I think everyone's goal is to be loved, to feel loved, to love, sex, etc... there's a lot of nuances to it. But it's all the same.

Those are the upper level goals programed in by DNA and evolution. The feeling of love is a chemical occurance designed to keep you with your love partner long enough to raise children.

To feel loved is to feel appreciated, which is to feel like you are loved by other people, and if you are loved by other people that means you have done your role in society. The point of society is to keep us all working together to cooperate so that together we can survive better in the nature and environment, so that we can all replicate more, or at least sustain ourselves to exists.

Keep growing and give it time.

Keep growing. Does growing mean make more money and be happier?
If you make lots of money then you are creating lots of value for society, which means you are helping society to help each individual person in the society to survive and to follow the wished of the DNA which is to replicate.

To be happy means... When have you expereienced happiness? When were you the most happy? When you created something awesome (created new circuits in your mind, which your brain rewards you for with pleasure because those circuits means that you now understand the environment better so that you can survive in it and manipulate it better, therefore make DNA replicate)?

When you won a million dollars (money = exchange of service in society)?
With a million dollars you can buy lots of cool gadgets. Gadgets that cause pleasure for you, like your Ipod.

Why does listening to music cause pleasure?
Because when you listen to music, you are learning a new sequence of sound.
Learning sound is something that you do when you are communicating with someone, like with language, and communicating. Obviously communicating helps the society out = help to replicate DNA better. And that since music has a structure to it, and has patterns in it, then your brain rewards you for being able to learn patterns. Because if you can learn the patterns of nature, then you can learn how to learn how to predict your environment better. Therefore able to survive better and replicate your DNA.

When you kiss a girl (maybe=sex)? When you ate the most satisfying mean in your life (food=life)? When you got an A on your exam? = You are closer to getting the job of your dreams. do good in math=get good grades=get good job=lots of money=lots of value for society=survival for DNA.

So basically happiness is DNA's reward to you for doing things that helps itself to replicate, or to at least sustain its level of being in the given environment. And if something makes you happy, then you're likely to do that same thing in the future which will lead you to replicate your DNA.

I think goals are as individual as each person. We all have different aspirations and as they say what is sauce for the goose is poison to the gander, or something to that effect.

This is sorta right, but that this just means that we all have different subgoals of reaching the ultimate goal of helping to let DNA to replicate. After all, we must all have different goals because we can't all be doing the same thing in the society, because a society needs different people to help fulfill all the different roles. Like in a family, someone must take care of the child, someone must take care to go hunt for food, someone must go get the water, someone must be on the lookout for outside threats like strangers and wild animals.

And I also hear things like, to serve GOD's purpose. And this still means the exact same thing. People say that god is everywhere. People say that god is inside of you. I like to interpret this as that everything in the universe has its own piece of consciousnesses. Why I think this is because I read an awesome article in a blog that logically concludes :

Logical proof that consciousness is eternal Read the whole thing. Its pretty awesome.

Case 2: Consciousness is completely physical. In physics, numbers have to add up. When you add up the mass of particles in a rock, the total mass of particles equals the total mass of the rock. The mass of the rock already exists in the mass of the particles. What is it, in the brain, that adds up to consciousness? Where does it come from?

In physics, every property of any object is the sum of the properties of every particle within that object. For example, the heat energy of a steel rod is equal to the sum of the heat energy of the rod’s molecules. The charge of a molecule is equal to the sum of the charges of it’s particles. Energy works the same way, and science tells us that energy is just another form of matter. Everything in physics is a sum of its component matter and energy. And so must be consciousness, if it is a physical thing.

Logic Step #3: If consciousness is completely physical, then consciousness is a property of matter and/or energy.

Yep — that means that every quark possibly has some sort of awareness. And why not? If you kick a rock, it has to know, so it can get up and start rolling. Rocks may not be able to think…or can they? (They can take sunlight as input, process it into heat, and store it in a crystalline structure until a lizard’s belly requests the output. That sounds like a computer to me!) It doesn’t have to be the quarks that are aware; it could be, say, the weak force (although this distinction has been diminished by findings that matter and forces are really the same thing). Either way, some physical building block is aware.

Now, science knows something about matter and energy. It’s eternal. Matter and energy cannot be created nor destroyed — common knowledge for anyone who passed a physics class. And consciousness, if physical, is inherent to matter/energy.

Case 2 conclusion: If consciousness is completely physical, then consciousness cannot be destroyed.

There you have it. Either consciousness is metaphysical and possibly eternal, or consciousness is physical and assuredly eternal. Either way, it sounds like a good deal to me.

So if conciousness is inherently a property of matter, then what distinguishes us from rocks is the way that our conciousness is organized. In a rock, the atoms in it are not organized too well, and there is no communication between the atoms, besides just the atoms inside the rock bumping into each other. So the conciousness that is inherent in the atoms of the rocks is only concious of itself and another atom if it is bumped by another atom. So basically it is a collection of really stupid concious individual atoms not aware of anything but itself and if it bumps into something else. And no, they cannot think. The only thought that a atom has (if it could actually speak, that is, if it had the brain structures to cause language) would be "I was just bumped. Okay, so time to move this way as a result." And then of course it would forget because it cannot remeber anything... So I think an atom is just a really small unit of conciousness.

You can't really kill an atom[lol, unless you do nuclear fission on it]..., but you can kill a person, but what happens when you die is that the conciousness that was there in you is still there... but is no longer organized into the converging "I". The individual conciousness of the atoms and neurons can no longer communicate with each other, because the heart has stopped transporting blood. The neurons then run out of the chemicals that they need so that they are no longer able to communicate with each other. I also think this is true, because there are people who seemingly have multiple personality disorder who seem to have more than one person in their head... for some reason, in their brain, their consciousness converges into multiple "I's" instead of just one I, like a normal person.

But our brains are highly structured, and there is lots of communication going on inside of it through the neurons. And what is really interesting is that the brain is structured as a hierarchy of regions, with the lower level neurons taking in sensory information like each pixel of the eye, and then as you go up in level, the features of the scene come into focus. And at the top of the heirachy, I'd guess is where all the conciousness converges into I.

Then the only reason we are here would be to raise our consciousness. The same goal as Steve actually.

Well, assuming Steve is human, then of course his goal is the same as ours. And of course our goal is to raise our conciousness.
Because what does raising our conciousness can do?

[Sunnybayes]

The goal then of DNA is to create conciousness... conciousness lets the person break the habits built in by evolution so society can form.

If DNA strictly had its way to multiply itself as much as possible, without giving the organism conciousness to be able to program itself to override the instincts given to it, then the organism would just replicate past its means and kill itself... a perfect analogy is bacteria in a petri dish, that grows until it runs out of nutrients and kills itself.

Our goal as humans are to be concious enough so that we do not act like bacteria and kill ourselves off because we destroy our environment and cause global warming to push the climate to reach a tipping point into a divergent run into something like the climate of Venus.

Debate on Climate Shifts to Issue of Irreparable Change

The debate has been intensifying because Earth is warming much faster than some researchers had predicted.

And just do a google search on global warming tipping point

Perhaps our goal is to organize as much conciousness as possible?

Maybe we can build concious machines to do this, or perhaps come up with better ways of converging the conciousness of individuals into a whole.

Is that what good and evil is? Good is organizing more conciousness while evil is disorganizing conciousness?

For example, eating a cow is not evil, because even though it has some organized conciousness, when humans eat it, it maintains our more organized concious, but that, eating plants is less evil because it destroys less organized conciousness?

For example, eating a dog is evil in America because there is a more organized conciousness between the owner and the dog through interaction, while eating a dog in china is not evil because it is treated like a cow.

For example, adultery is evil because it could break up the conciousness of the family.

[Heather Flanagan]

I find the ideas of loving, learning, and growing to be very enjoyable ideas.

Whatever reason a person gives for being here is the reason they are here. Actually, whatever a person demonstrates is their reason for being here. My reason for being is to write this post. And my next reason will be to see what my six year old son wants and decide what, if anything, to do about it.

Heather Flanagan
Visualize Possibilities