I want to be open about my religion

[CroMagna]

After heeding your words and doing a lot of research on my own, I've settled on Satanism, incorporating your basic three M's from Buddhism: mindfulness, mantras, and meditation.

I know I could never tell my African family about this. Even if it weren't this extreme, the two gays in the family aren't openly gay and it's kept hush. African families are just by nature secretive. Unfortunately my sister is like that too.

But with friends? I want to be open with my friends. My two best friends know all about it and accept it. But I have a bunch of other friends, some of whom don't really know. Some of them are from Latin America and Africa. I don't know if they're gonna accept it or if they're gonna run. I don't want to lose them as friends.

The Satanic Scriptures say to be a chameleon and have different veneers. It'd just be nice to be open though.

I'm making more friends, and I think this group will be more accepting of my religion because they're part of the Hedo (hedonism)/nudist/polyamory/bi subculture. But you never know...

Should I try to tell, or should I continue being a chameleon?

[YourHumbleNarrator]

I should think it wise to have people whom you can be honest with. Ultimately it rests upon your will. If you could live indefinitely without anyone knowing what you really are then there would be nothing wrong with that, but if you desire to share your true essence then it seems it would be a disservice to yourself to deny that urge. Just remember that whether or not you mean to be honest, always be shrewd.

[ssandra]

I would say not to hide it, but also do not shout it and bother people with it.

So, if in the converstation it comes up, you can let them know your believes and you´ll see how they react.

If it doesn´t come up, don´t feel obligated to sit them down for a "talk" to discuss your religion...

[Liveformx64]

I would argue you aren't any more a "satanist" than you are Christian or Buddhist for there are things you agree with in all of the doctrines as well as things you don't agree with.

Why try to fit yourself into all these different boxes? Can you not just take from each what feels best and drop the rest? It seems to me like you are longing for a sens of family or community, therefore you try on belief systems like a valley girl on a shopping spree.

For what its worth: be YOU no matter who agrees with you or not. Be you and don't apologize to anyone for it. Be you and wear it proudly. Be you to the fullest extent you can be and your life will explode with opportunities to be yourself even more than you could ever imagine. Be your own religion.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

I would argue you aren't any more a "satanist" than you are Christian or Buddhist for there are things you agree with in all of the doctrines as well as things you don't agree with.

Why try to fit yourself into all these different boxes? Can you not just take from each what feels best and drop the rest?

I definitely see the appeal in being syncretic. It reminds me of Latin American culture, where people believe in both Catholic saints and African gods. I think that's very emotionally attractive. The reason I wanted to pick one religion is because "a jack of all trades is a master of none." It thought it wise to have a deep reservoir of knowledge about one religion and master it like a craft.

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

I definitely see the appeal in being syncretic. It reminds me of Latin American culture, where people believe in both Catholic saints and African gods. I think that's very emotionally attractive. The reason I wanted to pick one religion is because "a jack of all trades is a master of none." It thought it wise to have a deep reservoir of knowledge about one religion and master it like a craft.

I see where you are coming from, and I think you raise some valid points. Let me give you a different perspective on a Jack of all Trades.

A jack of all trades is a master of living. He (she) NEEDS nothing from anyone, therefore he is free to share and love without condition, obligation, surrogacy or commitment.

This mantra is one that I have adopted and has served me well throughout life. I am able to thrive wherever I go, and relate to whomever I meet. I am able to excel at virtually whatever I do because I am able to reference all of these reflections that I have embodied at some point in my life, it truly is a joy.

Not to take anything away from specialization, for it is just as valid and beautiful as any another other lifestyle.

[Orecle]

if i am correct you are of black african descent and a majority of your family are probably christian or muslim.

as a fellow western born and raised, Black of african origin who has lived in europe my entire life but have been raised christian family. if you have any religeous christian or muslims in your family or even as friends THEY WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT. Our faiths clash like oil and water. it is like capitalism vs communism. everything satanism stands for we christians are against.

think about it

A large part of a christians life is spent praying against the devil aka satan. so why would your family accept something they pray against.

i am going to be real with you. i have watched you post for a while and you seemed confused. you seem a free spirit and i kind of admire that. The black culture can be very restrictive at times and it is much easier to get along when you go along, espiecally when it comes to aspects of christianity. i am going to guess that you probably find it hard to relate to many black females your age if they are coming from the religeous standpoint. They propably had stuffto say when you exotic danced. Nobodys perfect. i fail myself when trying to live a pure christian life, so I wont judge you.

but, satanism is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If you pursue it, i predict major sadness for your life. Indulging in whatever to scratch a curiosity rebellious itch is one thing but to try Satanism is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I REALISE I AM GOING TO GET FLAMED, BUT I DONT GIVE A ****.

CROMAGNA THIS IS YOUR ETERNAL SOUL. Do you know what that means. think of the concept of Satan, is this something you want for your life?

yea, i can understand wanting to feel pleasure and hedonism

but at what cost

But i truely dont beleive you want to be a satanist. Deep down. I think you just like the so called freedom it gives you. You dont want to be tied down and I understand that. but i really dont think you truely understand the devil cos if you did you would be shook.

you seem to have second guessed yourself wen it comes to picking a religion and i am going to guess picking a career and a steady partner, whether gal or guy (i have read some of your other threads) but do you really have to dabble in everyting? you realise once you try somethings its hard to go back

Deep down inside I think you know and feel whats calling you, but maybe you dont feel ready to be tied down. I am going to bet if you embrace who you are you would not need to ask advice from anyone. From the wide ranging career you have had (if i remember correctly) you could probably do whatever you wanted, if you apply yourself

i suggest you take a trip to Africa or Haiti and really discover what satanism is about. it aint no Harry Potter flick. this is your eternal soul you are playing with. if you were really a satanist you would not care what your family feel.

if you want to pleasure yourself, God has time. Its better that than you stunting in a church

I aint really going to talk much, as it will just get flamed and derail the thread. would love to talk to you in a pm if you are game.

dont worry i wont bible bash

[Andrew Brunelle]

Satanism does not sound good. Just the word will probably give most people the wrong idea. You could tell your friends what you do for your religious practices, but you don't have to start out by calling it Stanism. You can show your friends what you do and if they ask what it is called, then you can say, "Satanism." I guarantee they will be surprised at how different actual Satanism is than the idea of Satanism in their heads.

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by Orecle

if i am correct you are of black african descent and a majority of your family are probably christian or muslim.

as a fellow western born and raised, Black of african origin who has lived in europe my entire life but have been raised christian family. if you have any religeous christian or muslims in your family or even as friends THEY WILL NEVER ACCEPT IT. Our faiths clash like oil and water. it is like capitalism vs communism. everything satanism stands for we christians are against.

think about it

A large part of a christians life is spent praying against the devil aka satan. so why would your family accept something they pray against.

i am going to be real with you. i have watched you post for a while and you seemed confused. you seem a free spirit and i kind of admire that. The black culture can be very restrictive at times and it is much easier to get along when you go along, espiecally when it comes to aspects of christianity. i am going to guess that you probably find it hard to relate to many black females your age if they are coming from the religeous standpoint. They propably had stuffto say when you exotic danced. Nobodys perfect. i fail myself when trying to live a pure christian life, so I wont judge you.

but, satanism is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If you pursue it, i predict major sadness for your life. Indulging in whatever to scratch a curiosity rebellious itch is one thing but to try Satanism is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I REALISE I AM GOING TO GET FLAMED, BUT I DONT GIVE A ****.

CROMAGNA THIS IS YOUR ETERNAL SOUL. Do you know what that means. think of the concept of Satan, is this something you want for your life?

yea, i can understand wanting to feel pleasure and hedonism

but at what cost

But i truely dont beleive you want to be a satanist. Deep down. I think you just like the so called freedom it gives you. You dont want to be tied down and I understand that. but i really dont think you truely understand the devil cos if you did you would be shook.

you seem to have second guessed yourself wen it comes to picking a religion and i am going to guess picking a career and a steady partner, whether gal or guy (i have read some of your other threads) but do you really have to dabble in everyting? you realise once you try somethings its hard to go back

Deep down inside I think you know and feel whats calling you, but maybe you dont feel ready to be tied down. I am going to bet if you embrace who you are you would not need to ask advice from anyone. From the wide ranging career you have had (if i remember correctly) you could probably do whatever you wanted, if you apply yourself

i suggest you take a trip to Africa or Haiti and really discover what satanism is about. it aint no Harry Potter flick. this is your eternal soul you are playing with. if you were really a satanist you would not care what your family feel.

if you want to pleasure yourself, God has time. Its better that than you stunting in a church

I aint really going to talk much, as it will just get flamed and derail the thread. would love to talk to you in a pm if you are game.

dont worry i wont bible bash

Oftentimes Satanism has little to do with the mythic deity of lucifer or "the devil", at least the being Christians perceive "him" to be.

Leave it to a "Christian" to know very little about real everyday Satanism other than what is espoused from the pulpit, only to regurgitate their uneducated value judgement upon this thread. You like many other Christians have no relevance to educated non believers, because you usually know very little about the ideas you are refuting.

Q: What do you call a Christian who researches facts?

A: A non believer

Only the gullible and uneducated tow the line, as it has been throughout history.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

I see where you are coming from, and I think you raise some valid points. Let me give you a different perspective on a Jack of all Trades.

A jack of all trades is a master of living. He (she) NEEDS nothing from anyone, therefore he is free to share and love without condition, obligation, surrogacy or commitment.

This mantra is one that I have adopted and has served me well throughout life. I am able to thrive wherever I go, and relate to whomever I meet. I am able to excel at virtually whatever I do because I am able to reference all of these reflections that I have embodied at some point in my life, it truly is a joy.

Not to take anything away from specialization, for it is just as valid and beautiful as any another other lifestyle.

Great idea! Why be in a box? Because it's what's done?

I guess if I'm ever asked about my religion, I can say that "I'm in everything" or "I'm in many religions".

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Oftentimes Satanism has little to do with the mythic deity of lucifer or "the devil", at least the being Christians perceive "him" to be.

Leave it to a "Christian" to know very little about real everyday Satanism other than what is espoused from the pulpit, only to regurgitate their uneducated value judgement upon this thread. You like many other Christians have no relevance to educated non believers, because you usually know very little about the ideas you are refuting.

Q: What do you call a Christian who researches facts?

A: A non believer

Only the gullible and uneducated tow the line, as it has been throughout history.

why often times. sounds like a cop out. why cant you say all the time? i will tel you why. its cos you dont know. you made an assumption? come on tell me what you know about satanism and voodoo and the like

Provide me proof that satan is mythic? tell me how do us christians see satan and dont be a coward and wiki or google

You dont know what you are on about? go and research the history of anton lavey and alistar crawley.

what has being educated got to do with anything. that was the dumbest comment

come on clever clogs what is modern day satanism? where are its roots? is it not as a reaction to christianity which is from the bible? besides scriptures where does the oldest mention of the devil come from

you are the ignorant one? your folly was to call me uneducated. show me what your education has to do with this thread. do you think you are the only educated person on this thread

you are not a christian so you have no relevant knowledge to offer me on christianity and satanism.

further more i was not talking to you so mind your business

ps that last line about the gullible and uneducated tow the line is dumb. are you seriously suggesting educated people dont tow the line. AND YOU CLAIM TO BE EDUCATED.

ARE YOU FOR REAL?

look around you how many people are towing the line. come on big shot describe your life in detail and show us how to not tow the line.

ohhh a satanist!!!!! how original!!!!!

[Orecle]

liveformx64

that is a coward move to try and hide behind your so-called education. you didnt even provide an argument. you just attempted to throw dumb insults.


tell me when were you formally educated on religion. pls tell me wat makes christians uneducated. and pls provide checkable evidence and we will debate. pls tell me wat makes you so much more educated than christians.

[Dreamline]

I personally think the only thing wrong here is wanting to be open about religion, period.

It's personal, between you and your diety and we should all shut up about it. Unless you crave drama. Many do.

None of my close friends talk about their religion with each other.

Jennifer

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by Orecle

why often times. sounds like a cop out. why cant you say all the time? i will tel you why. its cos you dont know. you made an assumption? come on tell me what you know about satanism and voodoo and the like

Satanism and voodoo are not the same thing. Again Satanism is not one unified "religion" and church. Most satanist do not even believe in a the deity itself. But it is simply a recognition of ones own personal power and the practice of using ones own personal power. Many of them are what you would call agnostic or atheists.

Originally Posted by Orecle

Provide me proof that satan is mythic? tell me how do us christians see satan and dont be a coward and wiki or google

Are you kidding me? Every major culture throughout history has a scapegoat negative entity they blame all of their problems on.

Originally Posted by Orecle

You dont know what you are on about? go and research the history of anton lavey and alistar crawley.

Their impact good or bad, is but a drop in the bucket. They were two sorcerers who explored their own personal power, and harmed no one in the process. The real evil in this world is done by men cloaked in robes of God, claiming to be doing gods will. To name a few: The inquisition, the holocaust, the iraq war, Israel, Salem Witch Trials, The crucifixion of Jesus and just about any major war throughout history.

Originally Posted by Orecle

what has being educated got to do with anything. that was the dumbest comment

Everything. The church owes its very existence to the drone masses that are taught they are powerless and must repent, and fill the coffers with money to buy their way into heaven.

Originally Posted by Orecle

come on clever clogs what is modern day satanism? where are its roots? is it not as a reaction to christianity which is from the bible? besides scriptures where does the oldest mention of the devil come from

Modern day Satanism is many things, the least of which is your version of smoke, potions and black candles.

Originally Posted by Orecle

you are the ignorant one? your folly was to call me uneducated. show me what your education has to do with this thread. do you think you are the only educated person on this thread

I didn't say you were uneducated, but the masses who tow the line couldn't argue their beliefs for more than two sentences. Not an original thought between their ears.

Originally Posted by Orecle

you are not a christian so you have no relevant knowledge to offer me on christianity and satanism.

I was a Christian by force, and fear of hell for about 18 years. Thank God they were wrong. Actually I would say I still am a Christian because I believe in Christs teachings probably more so than most Christians do. But what were Christs teachings? You certainly wont find them in the manipulated and distorted KJV.

Originally Posted by Orecle

further more i was not talking to you so mind your business

This is a public forum.

Originally Posted by Orecle

ps that last line about the gullible and uneducated tow the line is dumb. are you seriously suggesting educated people dont tow the line. AND YOU CLAIM TO BE EDUCATED.

No, the educated ones carry the whips (of fear), and watch the masses tow the line, and do the work for them.

Originally Posted by Orecle

ARE YOU FOR REAL?

Maybe, Maybe not. But the fact that you are upset is a clear indication that you aren't sure your beliefs are real.

Originally Posted by Orecle

look around you how many people are towing the line. come on big shot describe your life in detail and show us how to not tow the line.

Think for yourself. Stay out of organized thought boxes called churches and mosques and come to your own conclusions.

Originally Posted by Orecle

ohhh a satanist!!!!! how original!!!!!

I am not a satanist, far from it actually. Didn't Jesus teach you not to judge?

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Great idea! Why be in a box? Because it's what's done?

I guess if I'm ever asked about my religion, I can say that "I'm in everything" or "I'm in many religions".

It certainly is not the only way, but I have found it enjoyable.

Gandhi was quoted saying, "I am a Jew, A Christian, A Muslim" He like many great teachers saw the universal truths behind all religions, and the utter tradgedy of the splitting of hairs from one book to the next.

I would argue if you study the major and minor religions long enough, and you can zoom out to look at them all objectively without judgment you will see a vein of beauty and truth that runs through them all.

Have you searched inward at all, with non denominational methods such as fasting, meditating, cleansing? Purify your body and quiet your mind. and all the answers you could ever want will come pouring out of you. You literally have everything you need to be on this earth resting right between your ears.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Satanism and voodoo are not the same thing. Again Satanism is not one unified "religion" and church. Most satanist do not even believe in a the deity itself. But it is simply a recognition of ones own personal power and the practice of using ones own personal power. Many of them are what you would call agnostic or atheists.

Modern satanism is one unified entity, now being headed by Lavays daughter
the origins of voodoo and satanism can be found in africa. can tell you for a fact that voodoo and satanism is very much the same. Voodoo is the hidden side. Cromagna even mentioned interst in learning it in a previous thread. no matter how modern day satanist try and make it sound nice and friendly they know what it is.
the people who really study satanism and occultism know where it leads. why did they name it satanism. did they not know what it means? why do they use an upside down cross as a symbol? why in satanist shops are there books on the occult, black magic, voodoo and the like
who is satan? do you think they are not well aware of who they identify with. if someone came on this board and called himself hitler the nazi would others not take offence as to why he chose that particular name? can he pretend he does not know what that name represents and that others particularly Jews will be offended? or should he not care so as to not conform

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Their impact good or bad, is but a drop in the bucket. They were two sorcerers who explored their own personal power, and harmed no one in the process. The real evil in this world is done by men cloaked in robes of God, claiming to be doing gods will. To name a few: The inquisition, the holocaust, the iraq war, Israel, Salem Witch Trials, The crucifixion of Jesus and just about any major war throughout history.

thanks for the emotional rant
most of the evil in this world is done in pursuit of profit

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

The church owes its very existence to the drone masses that are taught they are powerless and must repent, and fill the coffers with money to buy their way into heaven.

No,the church owes its existence to the power of God

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Modern day Satanism is many things, the least of which is your version of smoke, potions and black candles.

No, modern satanism masquarades as many things. it will end up in occultism. but it will never be accepted mainstream so they paint it as nice and innocent

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

I didn't say you were uneducated, but the masses who tow the line couldn't argue their beliefs for more than two sentences. Not an original thought between their ears.

i see you like to lie as well. this is your statement. you very much imply me and my christian folk are uneducated

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Leave it to a "Christian" to know very little about real everyday Satanism other than what is espoused from the pulpit, only to regurgitate their uneducated value judgement upon this thread. You like many other Christians have no relevance to educated non believers, because you usually know very little about the ideas you are refuting.

so what is my uneducated value judgement. do you know my level of education? whats it got to do with this debate? would it make a difference if I had educated christian value judgements?
that is weak. you talk about the masses conforming then you want to hide behind education (which is probably the biggest tool to make people conform)

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

I was a Christian by force, and fear of hell for about 18 years. Thank God they were wrong. Actually I would say I still am a Christian because I believe in Christs teachings probably more so than most Christians do. But what were Christs teachings? You certainly wont find them in the manipulated and distorted KJV.

So where do you go to get Christs teachings?

thats right. YOU DONT

you are not a christian. i want you to really get and admit this to yourself

You are not a christian. a true christian would not encourage someone to dabble in many religions. a true christian would not encourage someone to take what they wanted out of different religions. this is not an open buffet. that is not how commitment to Christ works. what you prescribe is fence sitting.

your posts are direct evidence you do not beleive in the bible. you called satan a myth. that is proof you dont beleive. was not Jesus tempted by the devil. So if the devil is mythic, then you are saying it didnt happen, right? all the stuff you espoused does not defend Christ. to be a christian, the bible clearly states you accept him as your Lord and master and beleive he is the only way to heaven. You obviously do not. You are encouraging another person to dabble in other religions when you should be winning souls.

Knowledge of something doesnt give you access to be known as it. knowledge of football doesnt make you a footballer

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Maybe, Maybe not. But the fact that you are upset is a clear indication that you aren't sure your beliefs are real.

No, its a clear indication that you annoyed me,
this is coming from someone advicing someone to assimilate 1 milllion beleif systems instead of mastering one, the one she truely beleives in
tell me Liveform what do you beleive? which one do you stand for? I will always rep Christ, what do you rep cos it aint evident in any of your posts. what is evident is you want to try a milllion different things. that is not the actions of someone who has faith in what he beleives

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

I am not a satanist, far from it actually. Didn't Jesus teach you not to judge?[/

Context, Life requires judgement so I will keep doing it. The bible says judge not so i dont get judged. sound advice. but since i do it I expect it in return. as i said to the Cromagna I aint perfect, but I am not having you talk down to me. ps besides I will pray for Christs forgiveness later

ps
if you truely beleive you can go through life and not tow somebodys line one way or another. be prepared to be a hermit and for a life of poverty. Everyone tows someones line. the basis of formal education is towing the line. I dare you to express non-conforming independant thought in an exam or coursework and see what grade you get

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

It certainly is not the only way, but I have found it enjoyable.

Gandhi was quoted saying, "I am a Jew, A Christian, A Muslim" He like many great teachers saw the universal truths behind all religions, and the utter tradgedy of the splitting of hairs from one book to the next.

I would argue if you study the major and minor religions long enough, and you can zoom out to look at them all objectively without judgment you will see a vein of beauty and truth that runs through them all.

Have you searched inward at all, with non denominational methods such as fasting, meditating, cleansing? Purify your body and quiet your mind. and all the answers you could ever want will come pouring out of you. You literally have everything you need to be on this earth resting right between your ears.

Just cos Gandhi said it does not make it true. taking an exhaust pipe from a porsche and sticking it on a honda does not make the honda a porsche. it doesnt even increase the speed. even if you took the outer shell, it will only be a replica, and imitation.
taking somthing from onething doesnt make it the thing

You do realise one of the main things that separates Judaism, christiianity ad islam is (namely who we recognise Jesus) to be is wat separates us. so to for him to be all is a contradiction, an impossibility

[brendannz]

Maybe if the label "Satanist" is going to make you be perceived as a bad person, because of peoples misconceptions about what a satanist is, then I think you might be better off talking to people about the values that you have as a Satanist, before you use the term itself and label yourself as that to them.. if that makes sense?

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by Orecle

Modern satanism is one unified entity, now being headed by Lavays daughter

How do you arrive at this conclusion? Have you surveyed all of the self professed satanist groups in the world, and what doctrines they follow?

Originally Posted by Orecle

the origins of voodoo and satanism can be found in africa. can tell you for a fact that voodoo and satanism is very much the same. Voodoo is the hidden side. Cromagna even mentioned interst in learning it in a previous thread. no matter how modern day satanist try and make it sound nice and friendly they know what it is.

Again, most satanist, if you truly study them objectively will tell you that it is simply a symbolic reference.

To try to compare modern day satanism to the Voodoo of Africa is laughable. The only way they are related is the way you categorize them in your mind.

There are those that tie the two together, but this certainly isn't inherently true. You have an exceptional skill of using small amount of knowledge to judge vast amounts of people.

Originally Posted by Orecle

the people who really study satanism and occultism know where it leads. why did they name it satanism.

Where does it lead?

Originally Posted by Orecle

did they not know what it means?

The better question is, "did they not know what it means TO YOU?"

To others who do not fear or believe in "the devil" it is simply a symbol or icon.

Originally Posted by Orecle

do they use an upside down cross as a symbol?

Without the belief in a judgmental god that will send them to hell, why not?

Originally Posted by Orecle

why in satanist shops are there books on the occult, black magic, voodoo and the like

This is an area where you may have me beat because I have never been to a satanist shop. How many have you been to, to make this conclusion?

Originally Posted by Orecle

Modern satanism is one unified entity, now being headed by Lavays daughter
the origins of voodoo and satanism can be found in africa. can tell you for a fact that voodoo and satanism is very much the same. Voodoo is the hidden side. Cromagna even mentioned interst in learning it in a previous thread. no matter how modern day satanist try and make it sound nice and friendly they know what it is.

Again have you surveyed every Satanist? You are building this giant entity in your mind. A massive coordinated dark church, thwarting your every good deed with sinister actions.

Originally Posted by Orecle

who is satan? do you think they are not well aware of who they identify with. if someone came on this board and called himself hitler the nazi would others not take offence as to why he chose that particular name? can he pretend he does not know what that name represents and that others particularly Jews will be offended? or should he not care so as to not conform

The difference is Nazi's were real.

Originally Posted by Orecle

No,the church owes its existence to the power of God

Profound, and convincing.

Originally Posted by Orecle

No, modern satanism masquarades as many things. it will end up in occultism. but it will never be accepted mainstream so they paint it as nice and innocent

There was a time when your religion was considered heresy, and still is in some places. Who is to say you are right?

Originally Posted by Orecle

so what is my uneducated value judgement. do you know my level of education?

Your answers speak volumes about how well you know your religion and your small amount of knowledge and tolerance for other belief systems.

Originally Posted by Orecle

whats it got to do with this debate? would it make a difference if I had educated christian value judgements?

You are trying to provide your point of view, aren't you?

Originally Posted by Orecle

that is weak. you talk about the masses conforming then you want to hide behind education (which is probably the biggest tool to make people conform)

I am guessing you mean formal education? Again you are assuming I meant that as well. A university is as much a thought box as an church.

Originally Posted by Orecle

So where do you go to get Christs teachings?

My heart.

Originally Posted by Orecle

thats right. YOU DONT

Judge Judge Judge

Originally Posted by Orecle

you are not a christian. i want you to really get and admit this to yourself

I believe I follow Christ's teachings, not because I am afraid to go to hell, but I believe in his true original message.

Originally Posted by Orecle

You are not a christian. a true christian would not encourage someone to dabble in many religions. a true christian would not encourage someone to take what they wanted out of different religions. this is not an open buffet. that is not how commitment to Christ works. what you prescribe is fence sitting.

How does it work? Where do you get these ideas from?

Originally Posted by Orecle

your posts are direct evidence you do not beleive in the bible. you called satan a myth. that is proof you dont beleive. was not Jesus tempted by the devil. So if the devil is mythic, then you are saying it didnt happen, right? all the stuff you espoused does not defend Christ. to be a christian, the bible clearly states you accept him as your Lord and master and beleive he is the only way to heaven. You obviously do not.

What bible do you refer to?

Originally Posted by Orecle

You are encouraging another person to dabble in other religions when you should be winning souls.

Winning souls? that sounds Satanic. What does you or god win, when you win a soul?

Originally Posted by Orecle

Knowledge of something doesnt give you access to be known as it. knowledge of football doesnt make you a footballer

Sure it does, if I say so. I am a Christian.

Christian translates to be "Christ Like" Through my research of the bible, and its mistranslations from the earliest text, I believe his message to have been greatly distorted.

Originally Posted by Orecle

No, its a clear indication that you annoyed me,
this is coming from someone advicing someone to assimilate 1 milllion beleif systems instead of mastering one, the one she truely beleives in
tell me Liveform what do you beleive? which one do you stand for? I will always rep Christ, what do you rep cos it aint evident in any of your posts. what is evident is you want to try a milllion different things. that is not the actions of someone who has faith in what he beleives

All beliefs are valid because none of them are ultimately true. All are attempts by humans to define the infinite which is physically impossible.

Originally Posted by Orecle

Context, Life requires judgement so I will keep doing it. The bible says judge not so i dont get judged. sound advice. but since i do it I expect it in return. as i said to the Cromagna I aint perfect, but I am not having you talk down to me. ps besides I will pray for Christ's forgiveness later

What if you die before asking forgiveness, will you go to hell?

Originally Posted by Orecle

if you truely beleive you can go through life and not tow somebodys line one way or another. be prepared to be a hermit and for a life of poverty. Everyone tows someones line. the basis of formal education is towing the line. I dare you to express non-conforming independant thought in an exam or coursework and see what grade you get

One can assimilate temporarily "try on some clothes" so to speak, and thats great.

But to damn others to hell for not believing what one has arrived at to be true, that is where I draw the line. To me, it is obvious you are not here to discuss beliefs and share opinions. It seems to me that you are on your self imposed crusade to save souls. But, from my perspective your words hold no merit because you have no perspective. You simply cannot address the issues of a modern non believer. You cite the bible, but the bible is the very reason many people don't believe!

In this forum of self professed "smart people" you would do better to explain the validity of the very book you base your beliefs in. At least for me personally, as soon as you start crying the blood of jesus saving us from hell, I tune you right out. As that type of speech only works with overly emotional and fearful people, IE the uneducated simple minds of rural and poverty stricken areas. This is of course my own perspective and opinion.

[CroMagna]

Liveform I'm definitely with you on this jack of all trades thing. I think because I have so many interests, this is what I was meant to be.

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

How do you arrive at this conclusion? Have you surveyed all of the self professed satanist groups in the world, and what doctrines they follow?
Again, most satanist, if you truly study them objectively will tell you that it is simply a symbolic reference.

To try to compare modern day satanism to the Voodoo of Africa is laughable. The only way they are related is the way you categorize them in your mind.

There are those that tie the two together, but this certainly isn't inherently true. You have an exceptional skill of using small amount of knowledge to judge vast amounts of people.

Your answers speak volumes about how well you know your religion and your small amount of knowledge and tolerance for other belief systems.

I am guessing you mean formal education? Again you are assuming I meant that as well. A university is as much a thought box as an church.

I believe I follow Christ's teachings, not because I am afraid to go to hell, but I believe in his true original message.

How does it work? Where do you get these ideas from?

Winning souls? that sounds Satanic. What does you or god win, when you win a soul?

Christian translates to be "Christ Like" Through my research of the bible, and its mistranslations from the earliest text, I believe his message to have been greatly distorted.

All beliefs are valid because none of them are ultimately true. All are attempts by humans to define the infinite which is physically impossible.

One can assimilate temporarily "try on some clothes" so to speak, and thats great.

But to damn others to hell for not believing what one has arrived at to be true, that is where I draw the line. To me, it is obvious you are not here to discuss beliefs and share opinions. It seems to me that you are on your self imposed crusade to save souls. But, from my perspective your words hold no merit because you have no perspective. You simply cannot address the issues of a modern non believer. You cite the bible, but the bible is the very reason many people don't believe!

In this forum of self professed "smart people" you would do better to explain the validity of the very book you base your beliefs in. At least for me personally, as soon as you start crying the blood of jesus saving us from hell, I tune you right out. As that type of speech only works with overly emotional and fearful people, IE the uneducated simple minds of rural and poverty stricken areas. This is of course my own perspective and opinion.

Dont be a hypocrite. you have a cheek to tell me I am not here to discuss beleifs and opinions.

wen did our spirited debate start? was it not wen you attempted to ridicule me and fellow christians?

you talk out of both sides of your mouth. 1 minute you are a non-beleiver next time you are a christian. which is it?

well, we both know you are no longer a christian

that is fair. most of my friends are unbeleivers. except my friends are not rude enough to call me uneducated. if you wished for a debate and to find out my belief system YOU COULD HAVE ASKED. but you didnt care, youi just wanted a dig, so you did

nearly everything you have accused me of you have done yourself. the using little evidence, making assumptions you have done exactly the same.

then you want to accuse me of not accepting the beleif system of others

wasnt it you who said leave it to a christian to talk on something they know nothing about. wasnt it you that said i have no relevance to educated non-beleivers. you even tried a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ joke to end it. and this is acceptance, yes?????

DOES THIS SOUND ACCEPTING TO YOU?


is that debating or picking a fight?

Did you once ask me why I think wat I do, did you ask my opinion,espiecally since you claim to come from the same background? is this not how the very religeous wars you condemn get started?

before you say i know how all christians think, are all christian denominations the same

No, you attempted to dismiss me.

you have that right. so i have the right to retaliate

ps. in my 300 plus posts i have never attacked anyones beleif systems except satanism, so you cannot tell me i am not here for debate. you dont know me i dont know you. i am not telling you your intention for being on this thread so kindly dont do the same

there you go again with this uneducated stuff then you want to lie and say you are not speaking of formal education. how many 3rd world countries have you been to see how educated they are? how many of the worlds catholics are uneducated, how many of the churchs in western countries are uneducated. why do you keep bringing it up

what, are educated westerners not overly emotional and fearful, no?

have you watched the news in the last 10 yrs?

is it not educated folk who have justified a war in a country who had nothing to do with attacking them, but then leave the neighbouring country that produced most of the terrorists on 9/11?

its not educated folk that got scared into signing away their privacy with the patriot act?

tell me was it not the educated who justified slavery for a good few centuries. was it not the same educated that justified segregation for many years. do not the that sanction atrocities around the world.

is it not the educated that took indian land and now complain wen the same indians want tax breaks on their casinos?

tell me is it not the educated that stand by and vote in leaders who THEY KNOW LIE TO THEM ON A REGULAR BASIS?

if you really beleive the educated are any less gullible than the uneducated youare in for a rude shock in a few years. there is a very good reason why uneducated immigrants do financially better than the educated natives in many western countries

[themaster]

You know I'm not a expert.. but your religion reads like a I'm against the people around me kind of thing.. (your post didn't start that way) but that's just what it feels like.. (perhaps that's Liveformx64 though..)

Here in the U.S. we have that kind of debate between agnostics and christians all the time.. the agnostics take the approach that christians are deluded fools and basically that's the christians mindset about them as well

Anyway, all I'm saying is you seem to want to be a Satanist as a slap to the face (that's what your thread feels like )

(if I were you I wouldn't even use such label it is limiting.. the label I use for my religion is "personal religion")

Back to your original question..

I want to be open about my religion

Yes, you should be open about your religion as your religion is YOU.. you should even accept the fact that some people may have anger or resentment issues.. which is their problem; not yours..

If I were you.. I'd play it mildly.. testing the waters.. but definitely do not try to be one of those people who wants to convert others to their way of thinking.. remember people need to choose for themselves and a heavy hand never works.. be open, be willing, be yourself and a good religious day to you fellow brother of the faith

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by themaster

Here in the U.S. we have that kind of debate between agnostics and christians all the time.. the agnostics take the approach that christians are deluded fools and basically that's the christians mindset about them as well

very very true.

this is the basis of my current spirited debate with liveform64

its basically like this in england as well

it seems to be like this with the LOA beleivers and NON-LOA beleivers as well

in bodybuilding its the HITers vs the multiple sets long workout group

in nutrition low carb vs everyone else, meat eaters vs raw, vegan, vegetarian

in politics its the socialist vs capitalist

[Mynder]

CroMagna,

seeing as how hard it can be to make people see through the label you use, you might perhaps simply want to reconsider and use another word like "spiritual" or "New Age".

I think you are not nearly as fixated on modern-day satanism than you so far stated, and if you keep reading things, I believe you will incorporate a lot of "this feels right" from many different sources.

Simply not using this charged-with-a-multitude-of-different-beliefs word of "satanism" will save you endless pain in trying to explain yourself to others.

Sometimes, the best way to fight is really not to.

[CroMagna]

Being a jack of all trades has turned out to be a superior idea to being a Satanist. I have been reading up on religions in Brazil and I love the spirituality there. I would be missing out if I joined a religion that's anti-spiritual.

[chrisrushton]

the only bad thing about satanism is being called satanism, apart from that it's a very empowering religion, at least the Symbolic version of it. I'm not so sure about worshipping the actual devil (with the pointy beard and horns) though. If you wanted to pigeon hole me into a specific religious box, it'd probably be Symbolic Satanism.

unfortunately, like all religions, it's been packaged in a way to make it attractive to people who are disenfranchised with their own religion or beliefs. it also seems not to be well understood by the majority.

[chrisrushton]

Originally Posted by Orecle

....

DOES THIS SOUND ACCEPTING TO YOU?

i'll tell you something, this doesn't sound very accepting to me

is that debating or picking a fight?

sounds like you picking a fight

Did you once ask me why I think wat I do, did you ask my opinion,espiecally since you claim to come from the same background? is this not how the very religeous wars you condemn get started?

before you say i know how all christians think, are all christian denominations the same

No, you attempted to dismiss me.
i read your post about saving your soul at the top of the thread. first thing i did was dismiss it since it shows no understanding of the topic. i carried on reading, to give you a chance, and found nothing to change my mind

you have that right. so i have the right to retaliate

as do i... strap yourself in!!!

ps. in my 300 plus posts i have never attacked anyones beleif systems except satanism, so you cannot tell me i am not here for debate. you dont know me i dont know you. i am not telling you your intention for being on this thread so kindly dont do the same

attacking is attacking, you certainly attacked satanism and people who claim to be sympathetic toward this point of view. that includes me.

there you go again with this uneducated stuff then you want to lie and say you are not speaking of formal education. how many 3rd world countries have you been to see how educated they are? how many of the worlds catholics are uneducated, how many of the churchs in western countries are uneducated. why do you keep bringing it up

got some numbers for us here? in places like china, the standard of education is higher. i've been to american high schools, taken classes. if that's what passes for education it's a joke. it's a joke when someone who's never taken a class in a subject but visits on a cultural trip can guess the answers to a multiple choice quiz on american history and BEAT students who have taken the class in it's entirety. That is a true story, not some stuff i made up for impact.

what, are educated westerners not overly emotional and fearful, no?

in my experience they are considerably less easy to manipulate into being fearful. being emotional is part of the human condition.

also,by educated you are implying smart. not necessarily the same thing, just because someone has a degree doesn't make them smart, and vice versa

have you watched the news in the last 10 yrs?

is it not educated folk who have justified a war in a country who had nothing to do with attacking them, but then leave the neighbouring country that produced most of the terrorists on 9/11?

no, just the politicians. here's a list of protests. i count more than 50 Protests against the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

its not educated folk that got scared into signing away their privacy with the patriot act?

no, scared people. people manipulated by the irresponsible, sensationalist media. benjamin franklin said those who are willing to give away personal freedom for safety deserve neither (the quote is close enough)

tell me was it not the educated who justified slavery for a good few centuries. was it not the same educated that justified segregation for many years. do not the that sanction atrocities around the world.

wrong again, that was businessmen, the politically powerful yet scared and uneducated racists. just because someone is a politician, doesn't mean they are smart. most of the time they are power hungry self serving ******** who couldn't give a flying fook about the people they're supposed to be representing. all they care about is getting power and once they have it, making sure noone can take it from them. on the other hand, there are people like william wilberforce who headed the anti-slave movement in england. there were plenty of anti slave protesters before him, he was just the one that pushed it forward

is it not the educated that took indian land and now complain wen the same indians want tax breaks on their casinos?

the greedy and deceitful ... notice a trend developing here? i don't know a whole lot about this period in american history, but what i do know leads me to this conclusion.

tell me is it not the educated that stand by and vote in leaders who THEY KNOW LIE TO THEM ON A REGULAR BASIS?

the people that vote for the lesser of two evils, knowing that if they vote for a third party the worse of the two evils will win. if everyone who voted for nader had voted for gore, bush wouldn't have got in

if you really beleive the educated are any less gullible than the uneducated youare in for a rude shock in a few years. there is a very good reason why uneducated immigrants do financially better than the educated natives in many western countries

examples please? reasons and people. certainly what i see isn't immigrants doing better than the natives. it's perceived in england that poles and other eastern european immigrants do better out of the healthcare system and social security, but the people claiming this are usually the ones who expect the government to pay their way without them having contributed anything to it too.

i wish you'd get over yourself.

also, check this link xkcd - A Webcomic - Duty Calls

[CroMagna]

I used to love the name of this religion, but now I think it's a crying shame that it's called that. I really love Satanism and think it's a good fit. I think it's good to have convictions and believe in something. I also define myself as "the Satan" in the society because Satan means adversary, accuser, one who questions in Hebrew. And I see myself as a Satanic witch, so I don't want to drop the label. I feel kinda torn here.... Maybe I should only befriend people in the first place who would understand....?

[Andyee]

Man... I am no priest, but Satanism is a bit harsh. You may see some good sides in it, but as the history shows there are a lot of wackos.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Originally Posted by Andyee

Man... I am no priest, but Satanism is a bit harsh. You may see some good sides in it, but as the history shows there are a lot of wackos.

Most of the wackos misinterpret what Satanism is. Oftentimes it would be more accurate to call them anti-Christians than it would Satanists. Depending on which form of Satanism one adopts, it's either a modern variation of centuries old pagan religion or it's humanism that mixes in dogma and ritual, reasoning that when they're properly applied they're psychologically beneficial.

There are a lot of wackos in Christian religion, or any philosophical or spiritual system. Satanism is no worse than any of the others, it just gets a bad rap. (Of course, its originators wouldn't have chosen that name had they wanted to avoid scandal.)

Cro, if you're so worried about being accepted by people in general, Satanism is a bad pick. It makes for good conversation among those who are open-minded toward it, or who are part of it, but aside from that you'd be begging for the proverbial stones to be thrown. In the end it comes down to what's most important to you: being socially acceptable or living by your convictions. (Even if Satanism adopted a different label it would still be objectionable to most in the western world. It praises the individual and eliminates the divide between the spiritual and the carnal. It preaches indulgence and self-direction in lieu of surrendering to a divine hierarchy. The rebel is by his very nature misunderstood and despised by the world at large. Even Jesus, a man who preached love and non-violence, was once rejected for it.) The two don't necessarily have to conflict, but if you're truly drawn to Satanic virtues you'll have to sacrifice something. That's the nature of any path which requires such discipline: you'll advance toward your goals much more quickly but at a heavy cost.

If I might make an observation, it seems you crave love and approval. I almost get the sense that you're not here to get our opinions on what you should do so much as to gauge how many people will or won't support you in your decision. If that's a driving factor you won't get in touch with your core values by attempting to choose your path in this way, nor can you force yourself to follow the Satanic path if you fear the cost of doing it.

If you think I'm right, I'd suggest setting aside these concerns for now and focusing on what's being brought to the surface. If there is a strong desire for approval, for love, and a fear of lacking it, address it now before it gets in your way. You'll never become what you want to be as long as you're divided.