Is college the best choice?

[fballer11]

I don't know if anyone has posted on this, so bear with me.

These last two weeks, I have seriously been considering not going to college. I'm a junior in high school. I have over a 4.0, got 5/5 on both AP Calc and Physics tests, and until recently never thought of not going as an option. It never occurred to me.

Recently I found what I really want to do with my life, or at least right now in my life. College does not seem to be the best choice.

Pro's of college as of right now:
-I love learning.
-It will be fun! More social growth, ect.
-Everyone is doing it! J/K

Con's:
-Takes lots of time out of your young life (unless you do it in three semesters like Steve)
-Costs money (unless I get a full ride, which is probable somewhere)
-I am tired of school.
-More people learn more on their own anyway (especially w/Photoreading!)
And the biggest one
-I don't want to go to college just to get some job. That Steve Pavlina article really struck a chord with me. My brother just got a Biochem. major, and he's not doing what he wants. I never want a "job"

Anyone else going through this now? Anyone make a similar choice? Please answer, and give me some insight I may be missing. And realize that everything that I do I work extremely hard in, so I am not woried about money, or success just yet. Thank You.

[The David]

Well, self-employment is for people who know what they want, not people who want quick cash. I don't know if that's you or not, I just thought I'd throw it out.

I don't want to tell you what to do, but if you really don't want to go to college, then you may have trouble motivating yourself once you're there.

You have at least another year before you have to make a decision. A lot can change in that amount of time. 4.0? AP classes? You're not an overachiever, are you? Because if you are, then be careful you don't burn out (of course, B students are often under more stress).

Steve did write a good article (no surprise there). However, it doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. For example, I am considering the possibility of teaching high school. I don't know if I could get the same opportunities if I choose self-employment (which would probably involve me writing, also a form of teaching but much different).

It takes a lot of time out of your young life? Well, maybe you aren't a 'college person' (a very strange thing to say to someone with those grades, I know). I love college. I can't wait to go back this fall. I can't think of anything I'd rather do. But not everyone is like that. If you feel you need to start your own business (probably a nobler cause than going to college), or travel the world, or (heaven forbid) work at McDonalds, then don't ignore that calling just because everyone is waving their Ph.D in your face. Remember, not everyone ends up pursuing the same career that their degree promised them.

In case you haven't noticed, I've been writing essays lately and am still in that frame of mind. Sorry about the length.

[Baltar]

College is not mandatory, but you must decide what exactly you want to do in the next five to ten years. Most people who go to college don't have any idea of what they want to be doing, and usually just go with the flow their whole life. There're many good threads on this forum, but here are two you should read in particular: Is having a degree worth the time and effort? and Is a job just a job?

I went to college (and got a degree), albeit for the wrong reasons. Mostly out of fear and not knowing what else to do. Despite this, the field of study I picked was actually one I was very passionate about. Sadly though most other students I had classes with didn't care much about what they were studying. To them it was "just a degree" to get a job that was "just a job". During my short stint as an employee after college I noticed the same attitude among the other employees I worked with. This blatant indifference is something I'll never forget.

[CoryLehan]

I could understand why you don't want to go to college, but don't rule out the possibility. I didn't go to college to get training for a career. I went for 3 reasons:

1) To find a career that interests me.

2) To learn about interesting topics that I want to learn about. (there's a WHOLE lot to learn in college)

3) To learn things that I don't want to learn about. I felt so bad getting forced into a boring political science last semester when I was picking classes, but it ended up being the best class I've ever taken.


So I'd suggest planning on going to college, but at the end of your senior year you still don't want to go, call up the college and tell them to take you off the list. (It's a lot more work than that, but you get the idea)

[fballer11]

Thanks guys.

The David: I hesitate to use "overachiever", because I give extremely little attention to school, unless a class challenges me. Even then, I slack quite a bit. Not bragging, it just comes easy. Yet unlike some people in my class, I don't let it get to my head. However, burning out is still possible.

What are you studying?

If something truly challenges me, I embrace it. An example is football (american). I came in my freshman year very unathletic, and decide "I like the sport, I want to make it mine." So I am doing that now, and will enter my senior year, to be the best receiver in our league.

That reminds me. I might want to go to college to play football. It is hard to understand that I think going to school would waste time, but going for football isn't. It is hard to describe the passion for the sport I have, and how much more I can learn from it than school.

I would love to teach high school as well! I guess I meant just not get a factory milled job from my degree.

Oh and nice writing and "essay state". Thanks.

Baltar: I definitely have a very specific plan, and I will never go with the flow unless it serves me 100%. Can I ask you what you studied, and what you do now? It just seems that everyone I talk to, even the people that enjoy their major, either delay doing what they love, or sadly never do what they love. I would rather bypass both options.

[fballer11]

Oh I forgot. What I want to do is build guitars for a living (luthier).
I built one for my 8th grade project, and my dad helped me. He loved it as much as I did, and somehow managed to find a master builder under the radar at a well known shop. They started a business, and I would love to go in with them.

Actually, the builder is the reason for me posing the college question, even though he doesn't know it.. He went to college, majored in philosophy, drove a cab for a few years, then literally started making the most beautifully crafted instruments ever, and he loves it.

I want to skip the cab driver part.

Another thing. I haven't told anyone, except the electronic jumble that is this forum. I am kind of excited to see people react, if I decide not to go.

[The David]

Originally Posted by fballer11

The David: I hesitate to use "overachiever", because I give extremely little attention to school, unless a class challenges me. Even then, I slack quite a bit. Not bragging, it just comes easy. Yet unlike some people in my class, I don't let it get to my head. However, burning out is still possible.

I envy people like you more than anyone else in the world. I stress out and haven't gotten past a 3.65.

What are you studying?

English (not yet declared). Even if I decide not to teach, I'll probably still major in it just because I love the subject, even if it means living in a cardboard box.

I would love to teach high school as well! I guess I meant just not get a factory milled job from my degree.

Well, only do it if you don't mind getting a humble salary, having 'homework' for the rest of your life (if you stay with the job), and being surrounded by miserable hellions five days a week. Come to think of it, that doesn't sound too much worse than any other job...except that other jobs don't give you May, June, and July...

[escapee]

I have a degree in Chemical engineering, but i'm now working on things that are 100% completely different from my original field . For now, I cant even remember what's the first law of thermodynamic ! F = MA power of 10 ?

Did i waste my time getting a degree in chemical engineering ?

I'm going to say a strong "no" so that i dont feel guilty about the money and time "used" ( refuse to say squander ) on getting the damn hard ChemE degree when i could do something else 10x easier and more aligned to my main interest .

However, I do feel that a degree is a great "financial insurance" just in case your money making hobby or business dream doesnt work out well in the end ....... Then you could may be use your business/crafting experience and the degree to get a highly paid managerial/executive job on related companies ?

[fballer11]

for teaching I would be more worried about the teachers, complaining in my ear about how much they do it for the kids, so thats why they need acupuncture in their healthcare plan. Sorry to any teachers. There are some very genuine ones. The ones that care the most about the kids rarely feed us BS about the union, how terrible Bush is, and "budget reform".

Weird correlation.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by fballer11

Baltar: I definitely have a very specific plan, and I will never go with the flow unless it serves me 100%.

Sounds good. I think the most important thing to remember is that there's no right or wrong choice, as long as you're fully aware of the consequences.

Originally Posted by fballer11

Can I ask you what you studied, and what you do now? It just seems that everyone I talk to, even the people that enjoy their major, either delay doing what they love, or sadly never do what they love. I would rather bypass both options.

I got a Computer Science degree. I started programming when I was 12, and since then for a very long time it was the only thing I wanted to do. But eventually I grew out of that narrow focus, and my interest branched out into other things like business and marketing. When I left my programming job I started my own game development company, and that's what I'm doing right now. That's actually how I first found Steve Pavlina back in the day, when he was still running his game company. Running a business or being self employed is a lot of work, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

I think Steve P. said in one of his articles that a goal you set is not necessarily the destination where you'll end up. Rather, it serves as a beacon for you to see what action to take next. I think that's very true. The thing is that as you get older you change because of your experiences. And when you get to a certain goal you may already be a different person and thus not want exactly the same thing that you wanted a few years ago. In that sense it's pretty pointless to delay for the future what you really want to be doing right now, because in the future you may not even want to be doing it anymore. I think that's why many people end up never pursuing their dreams. If they wait long enough, they change too much and the dream fades away.

[escapee]

I think Steve P. said in one of his articles that a goal you set is not necessarily the destination where you'll end up. Rather, it serves as a beacon for you to see what action to take next.

Well said

[Brutha]

I think Steve P. said in one of his articles that a goal you set is not necessarily the destination where you'll end up. Rather, it serves as a beacon for you to see what action to take next.

But that makes Goal setting not any less important.

[ethereal]

Hehe, this is my (brutally honest) personal opinion so take what resonates and discard the rest.

College education will bore you. Academic challenge is only interesting up to a certain point; past that, you'll start thinking, "why am i wasting time on this?" Yes, you can probably breeze past it with flying colors and get a great GPA and degree, but what's the point? Is that what you really want? Doesn't seem like it, since you agreed with Steve's article on getting a job and employment. The meaninglessness of it might even unconsciously affect you and you might start ditching class (like I did! ) or skipping homework. It's not because we're "lazy" or whatever, it's just that it's plain meaningless, and our professors and parents and peers all try to cover up the truth. The love of learning gets pushed aside, and the love of results/grades/superiority rises in its place.

Read Transcending the Control System: The Horrors of Public Education, i think you'll find the article quite interesting. It described my high school/college education almost exactly.

I feel that you'll have a lot more freedom being self-employed and doing what you love doing, instead of getting a degree and entering the workforce. There are a lot more important things worth doing, experiencing, and achieving, than what college and jobs can offer you. Just looking at the opportunities and inspirational experiences of people here on this forum should show you what you are truly capable of. No need to let society/parents/peers tell you what to do; they are not looking out for your best interests, only their perception/projection of your best interests, and sometimes not even that. Only you know what you really want, and from my personal experience I think college isn't it .

However, if you're still searching for your purpose/calling, then college may be a good place to explore your options and gain some experience. But if you think you know what you want to do with your life... go for it, college will only distract and delay you.

[trekr5]

Completely agree with all the posts here.

I read on yahoo (not sure!) of 18-19 year olds that are making 6-figure incomes from running their own internet businesses and doing extremely well.

You could probably take out a gap year and 'test' all the things you've ever wanted to do. If at the end of the year, you still feel like you want to go to college then go to college. Don't be swayed by the mantra that the only way to get ahead is through a degree. We live in a world full of tremendous opportunities where it is possible for anyone, armed with a computer and a connection to the internet, to become anything they want.

Read this 'You've got to find what you love,' Jobs says. It will help

[nurikabe]

Here's the advice I wish I had received when deciding to go off to school a dozen years ago:

Take the year off. Pursue a passion, travel, take a crack at working in the real world, or all of the above.

I went directly to college because.. well, that was the process. That's how one "got ahead" in the world. As a result, I was more concerned about GPA and achieving high marks than the actual material I was studying. I couldn't see how what I was learning applied to my life other than that "doing well" would help me get a high-paying job in a field that I was somewhat interested in.

If I had taken that year off, I believe I would have gone back to school for the right reasons: I would have selected a school and a field of study based on what I truly wanted to learn, or what I believed I needed to learn to help carry my life forward.

I would have made the decision from a base of experience; not because going to college is simply the way its done. And I would have gained infinitely more from my college experience.

[RT Wolf]

It's great to hear that you're thinking about this stuff already. And everyone has added in great advice, and I'd like to throw in a few pennies of my own:

1. College or Uni are an experience. No two people's experiences are alike and it has a lot to do with how you approach it. If you approach it as a chance to meet new people, have new experiences, learn a wide array of exciting stuff, then that's what you'll get.
2. Instead of thinking to either get a degree or not to get a degree, consider taking a year off to pursue your other interests. This doesn't mean taking a year off to slack off, but to consciously work on finding more and new stuff you like. Fortunately, that's something you can do at school, too, because of the multitude of different clubs and people you'll meet. Be open to having new experiences.

For me, then, the highlight, and the main reason I am going back to school (I'm taking a year off right now) is to challenge myself (I intend to finish my degree at a faster pace) and to have a bunch of new experiences. While I joined a whole bunch of clubs and did a whole bunch of things last year, there's so much more I want to do this year (like join the rifle and revolver clubs, learn to dance, etc). You can do that on your own time, but college provides you with a unique opportunity of having a lot of different stuff available in the same place. My focus is not on getting a degree so much as the experiences I'll have throughout it. In my opinion (and experience) the expense and time are worth it to have those experiences.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of times, you can just sit in on diferrent classes. So if you have an interest in philosophy, you can go sit in on a Philosophy 101 class for a year. You won't be pressured to learn crap to do well on tests, you get to pick what you choose to remember and you'll have more fun because you're doing it voluntarily. Remember, extrinsic motivation decreases intrinsic motivation.

Be careful of having a homogenous group of people you interact with, or indentifying yourself solely as a college student (if and when you do decide to go). It's easy to have friends who think like you and/or are you age, but for a whole new set of experiences, consider going out and finding people who are older, younger and different from yourself.

You can also push yourself and run a business or do whatever alongside your academic work (or it'll come easy for you, whichever).

In short, don't go to college to get a degree, go to college to get an experience. Try to find something you are geniunely interested in learning, but that won't solve all your problems because you'll still have to take classes and do tests and exams and learn things which you have little interest in. In fact, for me, it's worse if I go in with that attitude because then what I learn has to do with what I think is important or what I enjoy, which is not necessarily what's going to be on the test. I learn the stuff I want to learn in my own time.

Hope this helps.

[fballer11]

Wow. Thank you everyone. I really have some "level two gratitude" as Steve says, for the ideas in the blog and this forum.

This is one of the only places to get honest feedback with less social pressure. I have learned a lot more in the 14 or so replies about myself than in this whole school year.

But please keep on posting about this topic! Thank you all...

[CasBit]

There is no way to know where life will take you. No matter how difficult college is to swing now, it will be much harder in 10, 20, or 30 years should you find you need a degree.

The 4 years you spend in school now are nothing relative to a lifetime.

Tom

[ncos]

This is an interesting question. One thing I'll say is that having a four year degree will give you many more options in life than not having one. What if you decide that you want to get out of the music business ten years from now? It's difficult for many people to find a satisfying job without a degree.

I agree with the others who said that your goals may change over time. My story is a case in point. I have a degree in Management Information Systems and was a software analyst for 2 year after college. During that time, my priorities changed, and I'm currently in a post-bac program to become a high school teacher.

This is an option I wouldn't have had without the 4 year degree.

And college is about much more than getting a job. You'll learn a lot about the world and yourself. It might be possible to attend school and start your business at the same time.

Good luck with your decision!

[mtrimpe]

No, no and NOOOO!!!!!

College imprints the mindset of following the commands of 'superiors' and if you allow someone to force you into doing something you don't stand for, you only learn to give up your personal creativity.

That's my take on it. I dropped out and it took me 3 years + the 3 years I spent in college to recover and find my own personal calling. If I hadn't dropped out I think it would have taken me another 10 or 20 years to truly find my calling.

The only way I see college as a good thing is if you can fit it in next to your personal calling and if you can bend it to your wishes far enough so that it is truly in line with that calling.

All in all, only do it if you can find a college that works for you instead of you working to adapt to their standards.

[ticktockclok]

This is exactly why I'm applying to these folks when I turn eighteen. I have three years to prepare, and get ready for the mental toughness of it all. I realized how idiotic the education system is very soon, so I decided to start learning what I thought important myself.

[Michael Chui]

I only read the first post and skimmed the comments, so what I say probably was said already... but I want to drop a couple things.

One: Your con list is way bigger than your pro list. That should say something already.

Two: Your con list specifically addresses the items in the pro list. This means that your pro list is actually empty.

Three: If you know what you want to do, why aren't you doing it? If there's a stepping stone you have to take, have you taken it yet? Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.

Four: Experience counts just as much, if not more, than a degree. A resume with a strong list of work experience will win out over a resume with a degree. I mean, if you're desperate.

College has its place, but it's most effective in giving people a stomping ground with which they can experiment with possible futures. Don't get into the sandbox to make sandcastles when you know what the mansion already looks like.

[falcan]

I won't throw in another advice, because I believe everyone said everything they could about this theme. You should just follow your own path, noone can tell you what is the right or wrong way, there is only one way, the "you" way. Good way is to go on college, good way is not to go on college as well - depends on who you are.

After high school I was one year kind of wandering, went through a job(for half of year) to discover that I'll NEVER will take a job again:-) Then I've been lurking around for a while, until I've decided I don't know what I want and just went to try to apply for college(today I know it was mainly to prove everyone around I'm not dumb because I didn't do well in high school). I had a passion-computer games(playing and programming them), and didn't give school what I should give because of that Then because I didn't have a gift of persistence at that time, I quit with games(I couldn't finish a SINGLE stupid game,just 10000 of demos), and was hopeless what to do. Anyway, I went to that economics college, I stayed there for one year, until I discovered it frustrated me so much (database programming + economics),that I had to quit. At that time though I returned to games again, because I simply found out that finishing a computer game may be less struggle than the year I had to prepare for math tests to get to that college. I had a plan that I'll be a contract artist for mobile games(I had some gift for that), so I could stay in my field and create my own bigger and bigger games meantime. To shorten the story, today I've got my first bigger(in our country at least money for my 4th game from that time..If I would stay at the college(like everyone incl. my parents insisted), I'm still there, frustrated. On the other hand, if I didn't try to get there, maybe I wouldn't have the persistance that I discovered in me and still wouldn't be able to finish a game. So as you can see, everything brings something positive into your life, only you decide what your direction will be If you have a passion and some plan, and if you really think it's worth loosing some experience from the uni, go for it. I don't regret I dropped out of the college..

[PMcDonald]

Originally Posted by mtrimpe

No, no and NOOOO!!!!!

College imprints the mindset of following the commands of 'superiors' and if you allow someone to force you into doing something you don't stand for, you only learn to give up your personal creativity.

Good point. More often than not, people go to college because they are conditioned to believe that it is the only way they are to succeed. "Go to college, get good grades, get a good job." Look at all the reports out there that spew the numbers about how much more money people with college degrees earn than those that do not have that degree. It makes people afraid and almost scares them into going to college.

It sounds to me like you already have a pretty clear purpose in life and know exactly what you want to do. Follow your gut, and do whatever it is that you are passionate about and damn anybody who gets in your way!

College is great for some people. There are certainly people who go to college with a clear goal and career in mind, and then go on to live fulfilling lives serving others via that path. However, the problem I have with college is that we are forced to believe that we will not amount to anything if we don't go.

Also, you seem to have a pretty good head on your shoulders at such a young age. I don't doubt that you'll do well in whatever path you choose!!

[Lychee]

Honestly, I think you should just go for it. What do you have to lose? You haven't been to college yet- why don't you go there for the experience and see if you like it or not? You can learn from EVERY experience. Also, you might not have to pay a dime. Your grades are excellent and I'm sure you can get a scholarship to a good university.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Lychee

What do you have to lose?

Time. Money. Health. Self-esteem.

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Time. Money. Health. Self-esteem.

You don't have to put your life on hold to go to college. Go part-time and keep a business on the side if you want. If he doesn't want to graduate, he doesn't have to. He can find a class he's interested in and learn from it, maybe even meet someone who has the same interests. They can become partners and do something with it, or just be friends.

As for money, he has an above 4.0 GPA with good stats. He can get a scholarship to some decent universities.

As for health and self-esteem, it doesn't make sense to blindly go into something without weighing the possibilities. His decision to not go to college has nothing to do with health or self-esteem but boredom. The things you can learn in college are priceless.

Give it a shot and if you don't like it, leave. It's good to try any experience for yourself before dismissing it.

[Michael Chui]

Every decision has its opportunity cost. There is no guarantee that he will lose those things, but these are things that you definitely can lose by choosing college. You can certainly lose them just as easily by choosing not to go to college, but it's incorrect to say you've nothing to lose.

[JoannaC]

Bear in mind too that there are some careers which require a degree. I know that where I am, teachers---even music, gym, art and other specialties---require licenses. Licenses require a BA degree and education courses. You MUST have one to work in a school, period. My cousin is a self-employed musician, and his degree is in jazz performance. The gym teacher at my school has a degree in physical and health education. I had my degree from awhile ago and wanted to go into teaching. I had to take the education courses, then pay licensing fees to the college of teachers. I was not allowed to teach until I had these. People always say oh, I will go into a creative field and teach for extra money, it is not always that straightforward. And if you pick the right school for you, it can be a lot of fun and not at all a negative experience.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by JoannaC

People always say oh, I will go into a creative field and teach for extra money, it is not always that straightforward.

If you're a musician, you can give one-on-one music lessons for quite a good amount of money. Some years ago when my sister was learning to play viola, she had weekly lessons where the teacher charged $60 per hour. At one time a friend of mine gave guitar lessons, and I paid him about $30-40 per hour (that was after a discount, so others paid more). No degree required.