Not sure about my religious beliefs

[CroMagna]

Hi gang,

I just got back from a week long camping trip with the local church youth group.

I used the opportunity to see if I wanted to "switch contexts" as Steve would say and become a Christian again. I did a leap of faith and was Christian for a substantial part of the week. Currently I am a (LaVeyan) Satanist. I also like Voodoo/Candomble/Santeria and Buddhism.

There are many things I like and dislike about each of these religions. I'm also considering being in all of these religions together like they do in Latin America.

LaVeyan Satanism

LIKES

• The creed is based on philosophies I admire, like Ayn Rand's Objectivism (love those who deserve it, don't love those who mistreat you), Social Darwinism (pull yourself up by the bootstraps, respect your forefathers, life is inevitably about war so accept it, success is the best revenge), I-theism (you are your own god, you control your destiny, put yourself first), epicureanism (live your life to the fullest in the here and now)
• The main thing I like about it is that it is humanistic towards women (women are equal, witches are sexual goddesses, size and race don't matter)
• Non-conformity (there is no Satanic community, be your own person, don't try to "fit in" with any particular subculture)
• Helps those who have been mistreated or misunderstood (a la Ayn Rand, if all of mankind cries out against you, maintain your convictions), be proud to be a misfit or a pariah
• Pragmatic survival skills and common sense (don't go around announcing all of your business i.e. the fact that you're a Satanist, accept the fact that people don't always comprehend this religion)
• Last but not least, the Satan symbol (not a literal Satan thank goodness, a symbol of admirable qualities such as refusal to bow to authority or to serve a master with a hand or brain)

DISLIKES

• Anti-spiritual, not supposed to have spiritual practices involved, materialistic atheism
• Anti-Christian, they would never attend church or hang out in Christian community
• The difficulty of bringing yourself to tell a boyfriend or close friend that you've decided is a true friend
• Fear of rejection
• Uneasy feeling of being "dishonest" by keeping it private i.e. to the church
• Feeling that there's something about you that no one knows and would never understand
• Being the only one of you in it in virtually every setting especially in a third world community or country
• Many of the ones you come across on the internet are negative, misanthropic, and cynical
• Will never be able to tell close friends who are conservative
• Have to keep it from African family
• Sometimes makes you feel less American (Christian nation)

Part II is below

[CroMagna]

Buddhism

LIKES

• Encourages mental liberation from wealth, fame, and power
• Helps passive people unhinge from aggressors by encouraging them to walk away from the aggressor and not care if the aggressor thinks you're being a coward
• Excellent role models like the Dalai Lama and Tibetan monks who while famous and very oppressed continue to be poor and mild-mannered
• Enjoyable practices like yoga, meditation, and healthy eating
• Universally liked and well-received, easy to admit to
• "Free-spirit" image
• Unique but not "too unique" (see above)

DISLIKES

• Involves being at one with everything including people who are very unlikable i.e. dictators and terrorists
• Involves annihilation of the ego rather than preservation of the ego (as in Satanism)
• Is conducive to disdainful behaviors including humility, meekness, laziness, and aversion to world wars

Part III:

[CroMagna]

Christianity

LIKES

• Encourages liberation from wealth, fame, and power
• Dovetails perfectly with the Western and American mentality of productivity, order, and family
• (This particular denomination) has the one central messages of loving your neighbor, being kind and giving (as opposed to for example condemning gays)
• Feel/felt a strong sense of belonging and community at the church, with the youth group, and on the camping trip
• Will connect me with old money suburban people around here who will keep me on the up and up and more or less on the straight and narrow (i.e. don't run off and become homeless, maintain common sense)

DISLIKES

• Tells you you have to love everyone the same as you love yourself including those who are terrible
• Tells you to turn the other cheek rather than fight back or walk away
• Encourages forgiveness, so the next time you see the person you have to act as if nothing happened and even become friends!!
• "Love thy neighbor, do good to them that hate and despitefully use you"
• There are way too many interpretations of this religion
• This religion is conducive to mental masturbation or doing whatever you want by finding glib scriptural quotes to justify it later (i.e. "we're all sinners, we all fall short of the glory")
• There are no codes or guides to help you in life, nothing is required of you, there are no sacrifices to be made (for example in LaVeyan Satanism you have to give up all illegal activity including smoking marijuana)
• Encourages herd conformity and "fitting in", doesn't foster a sense of uniqueness and individuality

[CroMagna]

Last but not least

Voodoo

LIKES

• Reverence of ancestors, strong respect for forefathers and foremothers
• Reconnect with West African roots
• Reconnect with third world communities of Haiti and Latin America
• Misunderstood, possible result of slavery (root for the underdog)
• Aesthetics (bright colors of foods, each god has a brilliant color, food, and item)
• Humanistic towards women (priests and priestesses equal, gods and goddesses equal, main god has a mother)
• Friendly towards gays (Oshun is the patron saint of lesbians)
• Would work well with Christianity (syncretism)

DISLIKES

• Difficult to find community in the US
• Hard to explain to people including many urban Africans, Haitians, and Latinos
• Don't know as much about the religion as I ought if I'm going to be in it, would have to do a lot of research and interviewing to make sure I'm not being inaccurate
• Difficult to find opportunities to practice it in the US

[CroMagna]

So as you can see, there are many things to like about these religions. It would be nice to be able to do all of these religions like what some Latinos do. But I don't like the idea of being a Cafeteria this or that (picking and choosing things you like and discarding the rest).

There's an additional problem. Just because I say I'm something doesn't mean I'm really that thing. What if I actually AM Christian (for example I don't want to go to hell) or what if I actually AM a Satanist (because of my personality traits and philosophy)?

Right now I think the best thing to do would maybe just be an unlabeled person with many different religious and spiritual practices.

I would appreciate your feedback as always.

[Angela]

What about Pastafarianism?

Pros:

Political clout (note the "Happy Holidays" message on George Bush's cards)
Cool outfits
Freezable and microwavable
Eight "I'd Really Rather You Didn't's" are much easier and more fun to follow than some of the bullying and conflicting alternative religions' "commandments."
non-geographical
Has an Internet game
Sexy (see Pirates)
"Hell" is not so terrible (the beer is stale and the strippers have STD's)
Free to join, but sky's the limit on profitability (not a pyramid scheme, unlike other religions)

Cons:
Fattening

[CroMagna]

Cute. I value your opinion and I wonder what you make of this. Perhaps I should lighten up?

[Brutha]

Somehow it's funny to decide on a religion on a set of pro and cons.
Why do you want a religion?

[joelr]

I don't know but I have to say Satanist rule #11 is hilarious.

"When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."

[Angela]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Cute. I value your opinion and I wonder what you make of this. Perhaps I should lighten up?

I think you should follow your inspiration, and do what's right for you. My 2 cents is that you might feel more effective if you let go of the practice of identifying with any belief ("I am a Christian/Satanist/Pastafarian"), and simply choose beliefs that work well for you without them meaning anything about Who You Are. For whatever my 2 cents is worth to you.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Somehow it's funny to decide on a religion on a set of pro and cons.
Why do you want a religion?

I love religions, I love the spiritual practice and how it can help you improve your life and your relationships with others.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Speaking as someone fascinated by Satanism, there's no reason it has to preclude spirituality. You can't be a LaVeyan Satanist of course, but Satanism isn't his religion. Spiritual Satanism is simply the latest evolution of centuries old occult practice.

But it sounds like you want to avoid that. Fear, perhaps? Christian indoctrination? Guilt- it seems you feel really guilty about being so different, or should I say the prospect of being so different? If you're attempting to evolve you're alone anyways. The average person doesn't understand someone who's striving for more than safety and creature comforts. Other paths may not yield the same knee-jerk response you'd get if people found out you were a Satanist but the relationships you have with them aren't going to be any deeper.

A religion is part of your identity but it isn't your identity. That's another thing I see in your posts. It looks like you're not so concerned about spirituality so much as how you'll define yourself. Me, I'd say define yourself and then choose a religion if you feel so inclined. If you try to pick a religion now you're only going to force yourself into a predefined mold without discovering who you really are.

Of course, exploring (not committing to) religions can be useful for that purpose. But you can't figure it out with a list of pros and cons. This is a matter of the heart, not the mind. Forget what should or shouldn't feel right, what does feel right? Move in that direction. It'll serve you better than these lists will.

[The Cloud]

You are an outcast, even from other outcasts. No religion can save you from that.

[Dot]

Cromagna, it seems like you might be window shopping. You also seem to be mistaking a laundry list for your "beliefs."

In reading all your likes and dislikes, you could actually apply all of them to any religion. Try making a list that's headed with all these religions. Then group all of the likes of all the religions in one big list. Then Group all of the dislikes into one big list.

After that, you could change the like list to the dislike list, and vice versa. And you'll also see that many things are your list are incorrect. You'll also see that what is true on one level is not true on another level.

It seems that you're initially looking for a social group and not a religion. All religions, on the deeper levels, arrive at the same place.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

It would be nice to be able to do all of these religions like what some Latinos do. But I don't like the idea of being a Cafeteria this or that (picking and choosing things you like and discarding the rest).

Why not take what you want from all off them, and use that? I mean, you are already making the disicion based on list and what you like about the religion, and not about what you yourself truly feel is true and right...

I don´t see anything wrong with making up your own mind. Afterall, all religions were invented by people as well. Maybe it is time for you to invent your own one?

[falcan]

As the the posts above said, why do you try so much to label yourself? How does belonging to a group validate what you like/dislike? Just be yourself, stop allowing the labels to restrict you(if Im satanist I can't do this, if Im a buddhist I can't do that).

Create your own religion, beliefs, rules and live them. That's the best thing you can do for yourself Your problem is not where to belong but that you wish to belong somewhere, in some group, I think.

[Plato]

You can worship me if you want.

Perks: unpredictability. You never know what I'll be preaching next.
Cons: I don't have much respect for my followers... I'm the screw'em and leave type. Sorry.

[The David]

Some people need more structure and organization than others. I have no religious affiliation and almost no organization at all, but I sometimes think that I haven't really gained anything by rejecting organized religion.

It already sounds like you know what you believe, and what you want. So instead of trying to fit yourself into a ready-made format, which will result in you losing parts of yourself, why don't you just find the community which is most sympathetic? This will probably not be a southern Baptist church or a Buddhist monastery, but how about a UU church? If you're interested in Christianity, why not find an open group of people who study the Bible but don't have a denomination in common? Why not incorporate Buddhist practices into your life without jumping the gun and shaving your head? If you like the brutal honesty of Satanism (probably the most refreshing part of it), why not study Gnosticism and hear the serpent's side of the story?

Just my $2 (adjusted for inflation).

[Orecle]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Hi gang,

I just got back from a week long camping trip with the local church youth group.

I used the opportunity to see if I wanted to "switch contexts" as Steve would say and become a Christian again. I did a leap of faith and was Christian for a substantial part of the week. Currently I am a (LaVeyan) Satanist. I also like Voodoo/Candomble/Santeria and Buddhism.

There are many things I like and dislike about each of these religions. I'm also considering being in all of these religions together like they do in Latin America.

I am going to be real with you.

You were not a christian for even a second of the week. Its like someone with a terminal illness claiming to be healthy for a substantial part of the week cos they took up jogging and eating lettuce. To be a christian would have required you to renouce all contradictory beleifs and actions, espiecally the Satanism. Thats like a Capitalist saying 'I went to a communist meeting, cos someone said I should switch context so I was a communist for a substantial part of the week'

To be a christian, requires you give your life to Christ. This is not done for half a week. singing Kumbaya with christian youth and taking bible study for a week, does not make you a christian. Alot of regular church goers are not christians. They are there in body, but not mind and spirit. Its like dieters who dont want to give fast food, so they have cheat meals daily, or they would put vegatables with junk to make themselves feel better, as if the veg will neutralise the junk. Then they wonder why they cant get/ or stay sliim.


You then say you are a satanist. You cannot serve 2 masters, espiecally masters at the opposite scale. If you were really christian, you would have nothing to do with other religions, except to study for general knowledge(since islam and judaism and christianity have the same origin). You would definately have nothing to do with Satanism.

You would realise you are in war for your soul and you cannot play pick and mix. If you were a christian, you would realise your soul is not safe, with alot of the appealling info out there.

I aint telling you what to beleive, but dont be on the fence. The bible says ' you are neither hot or cold, so I spit you out of my mouth'

I hope you turn to God, but in essence do what you like. But do it fully. Be in the world, then be a christian when nothing else works, but pls stop with this 'take a piece of every religion.' You just confuse and dilute yourself.

Stand for something. You will feel alot better if you understood whatever you choose fully and one at a time. but fence riders end up confusing themselves and others. They soon cant decide what belief system to adopt when making important life decisions

if you wanted to be a world class sprinter, you would not simulteanously practice sprinting, boxing, golfing, swimming, judo, karate at the same time and hope to be known as a world class sprinter. Trying to do and be everything, usually makes you mediocre at everything. Micheal Jordan is a legendary basketball player but when he went to baseball, he was found wanting

What is your identity. Who is Cromagna. what does she want to stand for?

If you want to be a christian, then adide fully by its rules. Study it for yourself. See it as a contractual agreement between God and yourself - if you do beleive in the God as described in the bible (which is mandotory for a TRUE CHRISTIAN)

I can lay money on it, that a majority of threaders on this forum will disagree with me - since most dont agree with Christianity but I dont care. I am a Christian struggling on lifes journey. i will put up my hands and say I sin and will continue, I have personally been saved by God in situations where others have got into trouble.

God loves you

Please love him back

ps. what made you go to the bible week camp in the 1st place? was it just what steve said?

[Orecle]

To Cromagna

I have read some of your posts, and you seem very interesting. You seem very curious about life and want to learn as much as you can. I very much respect that. I dont know you, but judging (even though I should not) by your posts you have a very inquisitive mind that wants it all. So I think you are going to explore as many religions as you can till you are tired or satisfied.

At the end of your search,I think you will have alot to teach young people in the future from what I predict will be a colourful life you will end up living, not that you havent started living already

But I will say 'Christianity is a lifetime commitment, church going is not' If you want to live your life, do it to the fullest - no regrets. Whereever you are in this world, what ever you choose to do If your soul yearns for God, trust me, you will be back at church. Maybe 1yr, 5 yr, 10 yrs from now but it will be on your own, because you truely want only what it offers. Besides you will be in a better position to help people who were once confused about Christianity.


I hope Brazil works out as well.

[The David]

So if you can't be a Christian for a week, then two weeks? Two months?

[Virtue121]

Try the VirtueScience philosophy: The more you understand conceptual opposites and their application to your inner qualities the more relaxed and confident you will be regarding the differing religions etc.

[vMike]

Nice guide there, CroMagna!

I was reading the Satanic Bible by LaVey recently and while the philosophy makes sense, all the magic stuff and rituals in the second half of the book look weird to me. I was interested in it up to that point.

But generally best is to create your own system of values and philosophy, no need to adopt an established one.

[The David]

Originally Posted by vMike

I was reading the Satanic Bible by LaVey recently and while the philosophy makes sense, all the magic stuff and rituals in the second half of the book look weird to me. I was interested in it up to that point.

LaVey was an occultist, but I think he might be in the minority there. Many Satanists are ruthlessly materialistic, and even some who do magic don't really believe in it, except as a form of catharsis.

Cro could always use the Belief-o-matic.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Plato

You can worship me if you want.

Perks: unpredictability. You never know what I'll be preaching next.
Cons: I don't have much respect for my followers... I'm the screw'em and leave type. Sorry.

That was really funny.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Originally Posted by The David

LaVey was an occultist, but I think he might be in the minority there. Many Satanists are ruthlessly materialistic, and even some who do magic don't really believe in it, except as a form of catharsis.

Cro could always use the Belief-o-matic.

LaVeyan Satanism is atheistic Satanism. He's in the camp that doesn't actually believe the magic does anything. I could be mistaken but I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise and I've always read his work through that lens.

You are correct that occultic Satanists are a minority. I think most are drawn to it because it provides the perks of religion without any of the stigmas. In fact when addressing why Satanists don't simply align themselves with humanism LaVey said that it's because they identify a need for ritual and dogma. He posited that man has a natural inclination to these things and thus needs them in a form that liberates rather than enslaves the mind.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Hi gang,

I just got back from a week long camping trip with the local church youth group.

I used the opportunity to see if I wanted to "switch contexts" as Steve would say and become a Christian again. I did a leap of faith and was Christian for a substantial part of the week. Currently I am a (LaVeyan) Satanist. I also like Voodoo/Candomble/Santeria and Buddhism.

There are many things I like and dislike about each of these religions. I'm also considering being in all of these religions together like they do in Latin America.

Very interesting indeed a Christian for one week! By the look of things you are a fan spiritual adventurism without any specific goal in mind. The most important question you should ask yourself is why you went to the camping trip in the first place.

Christianity unfortunately is not ‘religiosity’ but a way of life with respect to the teachings, examples and life of Christ Jesus not some in and out one week thing. So is Islam with Muhammad, Buddhism with Buddha, e.t.c, if they are all true is another matter altogether and irrelevant in this aspect, but they do assist people in search of a balanced life.

Why do you jump from one form of religion to another, what are you searching for, is this some form of rebellion to someone/thing? Who are you trying to please or what do you think your behaviour will end up achieving?

I am not going to tell you what to do because you should be responsible for your own decisions and held accountable for them in the long run. Most of the people you seek for answers from are in fact either lost themselves or are busy searching for the same, and will gladly use you as a ‘guinea pig’ to achieve their ends.

So make up your mind and be ready to reap the consequences of your actions without seeking for other people’s validation of confusion. The earlier you get a grip on yourself the better it shall end up for you, otherwise be prepared to reap the whirlwind of regrets. I went down that road once was just lucky to come out in one piece, good luck you will need it!

[pianoperformer]

I agree with Orecle and Newsbone.

You cannot be a caffeteria Christian. I mean you could, but you would not really be a Christian then. Christianity is all about surrendering yourself and your will completely to God. It is completely about realizing that you sin, but knowing that Jesus' sacrifice covers for it if you confess. It is a very liberating attitude, albeit quite difficult.

You sound like you are mostly in it for the social aspect or benefits though. Are you really looking for the truth? If you are, why don't you perhaps talk to a local priest? They can explain things to you better.

You have some misconceptions though.

Firstly, focusing on loving your neighbor and being kind doesn't mean you don't condemn what is wrong. Both of those are in the Bible. Certain thing sare definitely wrong and are sinful.

We have to love everyone, but not necessarily like them. The term hate the sin, but not the sinner, comes to mind. If you hate another, it is a form of pride because you think your sins are not as bad as theirs. All sin is offensive to God.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to become friends, but it does mean you shouldn't be attached to whatever bad that person did to you.

You should do good to all, but of course not allow yourself to be used.

There are many interpretations yes, but honestly there is only one correct interpretation. We won't get into that now though. Remember that there is only one truth.

You can't do whatever you want. Sin is never acceptable, but we also realize that all of us sin. If someone justifies sin by saying we all are sinners, then that is certainly the wrong attitude. Instead, we should be eternally grateful to God that he has mercy and forgives us as we continue to fall.

There are codes and guides, and many things are required. It is required we go to church every Sunday, confess our sins when we commit them (whether to a priest in Catholicism, or just to God in Protestantism), avoid all sins but especially mortal sin, love God and love other people (two greatest commandments), pray often, read the Bible often (not a requirement but a good idea), and so forth.

It doesn't encourage herd conformity. It encourages growing closer to God through frequent reception of the sacraments, prayer, studying the Bible, and so forth. Many people go about that in different ways though. Some people follow a lay rule of life such as St. Francis' Rule of 1221. Others go about it differently. Different people have different vocations, and it is up to them to discern what God wants them to do.

So why did you go to this camp in the first place? You might want to look into that, and see if God is trying to tell you something.

Feel free to PM or email me if you have any questions.

Pax et Bonum

[Crimson Twilight]

It is amazing, I had not expected to see such inqusitive minds and advise within just a few clicks, nor had I expected to find someone of such a like mind as my own.

Now, as I write, I am in a focus of meditation as I will explain later in this response:

First let me say, this concept of being a cafateria is promoted by everything that makes us human, it is the nature of humanity to seek after the undying and eternal questions that have plagued us since day one, "Where did I come from," "Which God is true," "What is the purpose of life,". Answers all of us could give a response to, and be both right and wrong.

Now, Bruce Lee once said "Be like Water" and "Take what is useful, discard what is not," or something along those lines. It is a principle I have adopted and developed over the course of a few years, I am by no means an expert, but I seek that end.

Being like water is simpily adapting to the world around you. What obstical is there that water cannot pass, by passage of time it will always reach its destination you just have to find the way!

To take what is useful, and discard what is not. That is the very basis for all of your analysis on these religions, you see what is wrong, and what you do not find to ring true to yourself, though you lack a stable set of beliefs in which to connect with. And so, I extend to you an invitation to grasp whatever it may be that you seek.

All you must do, is find emptyness, meditate much like the buddhists and clear your mind of all emotion and thought. What makes you Human is emotion, to let that go, is to let go of humanity itself. The method for achieving this is different for each individual, but I prefer using the analogy of water, or for a more violent and vigerous option using fire as a focus. I'll list both.

Water Focus:
Clearing your mind first begins with peace, imagine a smooth brook somewhere deep in the mountains, untouched by industrialization, war, or mankind. As you picture this image in your mind, imagine the sound of water, rushing against the stones, imagine the soft surface of the rocks that water as worn down over time.

You yourself are the water, you can feel the stones rolling across you and then you start to add the imagery of your surroundings, trees, plantlife, wildlife, and sunlight/moonlight. Remember, in the end you control whatever you see.

As you travel down the brook, imagine the water picking up and then you find yourself falling down a waterfall, free of feeling, free of everything. You have journeyed from the mountain creek to the lake, here you create your own image of the surroundings, feeling everything within the lake, every extension, you are the lake.

From here, you may proceed to a smooth mist, like that the hangs over the water in the cool of the morning, and eventually you rise to the clouds, hanging far above the world, you surround the world and watch everything in it, set apart and observant..

Then, choose a destination and fall upon it, as rain. Continue this process over and over until you achieve peace of mind.

Fire Focus:
Far more simple, but far more difficult to maintain focus.

I myself, simpily standing in front of whatever image happens to be on my mind at the time. Say it is my first dog, my first kiss, whatever it may be, and then I imagine it as a picture, and I set fire to the picture, burning it away.

The fire doesn't at any point give off smoke, it simpily is, and burns only thoughts, I surround this fire around myself and purge my body of human weakness, thoughts of the mind, pain, emotion, gradually one by one. Should another thought try to break my concentration, I burn it away.


Now, the latter is far more difficult, but with time and practice it can be done in an instant. The former is far easier to relate to for most, but whichever you attempt, make sure it is adapted by you. This works for me, though you may find it far different than I.

Whatever the case, from this point, you are willing and able to look at perspectives from a line of thinking not hindered by your past experience, commercialism, teachings, and all this. You are able to view the world as it is, as opposed to what others tell you it is. You can take what you need, and leave what you do not.

I've done this for years, and have found that Christianity is my basis, but not this modernised form that everyone clings to, no. I believe as the apostles did, I try to live as they, why? Because I am willing to accept the fact that I was made for a purpose that I do not control, and I wish to be an instrument for the Lord's Will.

As a friend, and fellow marine revealed to me the other day, "You live your life as a sacrafise, just like Jesus." Christians are Christ followers, they are to be like Christ was. Without blame, and without sin. Of course, that is impossible, I've sinned over and over again, but the Blood of Jesus redeems my sin, and it is through a lack of human emotion that I seek after things such as the fruits of the Spirit, Peace, Love, Joy, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self-Control. There is no law against these, so if you only have these how can you sin?

Like the others said, Christanity is a lifestyle, and it is one many do not understand and just do the weekly thing and go to church.

Thank you for reading, and if you are curious, for applying.

-Crimson Twilight

[Michael Chui]

I stumbled across this, just now, while doing the first steps of my research on Waldorf education:

Anthroposophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It sounds like it would be of interest to you, CroMagna.