Not sure about my religious beliefs

[The David]

Christianity is a belief system as well as a lifestyle. It would be possible to experiment with a Christian perspective without actually following it. If you actually believe those things, though, you probably will follow it because it would be stupid otherwise.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Originally Posted by The David

Christianity is a belief system as well as a lifestyle. It would be possible to experiment with a Christian perspective without actually following it. If you actually believe those things, though, you probably will follow it because it would be stupid otherwise.

It depends on how much Christianity you adopt into your lifestyle, and what variety. It's wholly possible to admire the Christ figure while rejecting the faith-based aspects of the religion. IE, you do not have to be "born again" to love your enemies, or care for the poor. You can pray, not to any god, because you feel it has psychological benefits as a form of meditation.

According to conservative Christianity that's not Christianity at all but it would be in line with what some liberal denominations allow and believe. Within the walls of traditional Christendom people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between what I described above and a so-called true believer.

[Liveformx64]

Religion by its very definition is confining, and therefore will ultimately confine your spiritual growth.

Drop the definitions, do what feels right at your core self. Ego aside.

Life is a buffet, pick and choose from what you like, and drop the rest. Or create your own.

God, Creator, The universe, All that is, loves you whether you love it back or not. THAT IS unconditional love. Your very existence is proof of that. There is no hell so don't worry about that. Do what makes you feel happy ... TRULY HAPPY for short amount of time we are able to play this earth game.

[YourHumbleNarrator]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Religion by its very definition is confining, and therefore will ultimately confine your spiritual growth.

An empty platitude. Religion confines no one, people let themselves be confined by it. Instead of choosing whatl best suits them they do what they are pressured to do, they forsake thought and let others think for them. It's only because of this tendency that religion becomes a cage.

Take Satanism, for example. There's no pressure to join. If you choose to leave, simply because you want to or because you've grown in a different direction, no one will stop you. It's there for people who feel they can benefit from it or who strongly identify with it and everyone else is free to do as they wish.

A good religion will guide you and support you without telling you what to think or what you can and cannot do. If you're a bad fit they won't judge you, they'll just tell you to go on your way. Religion only becomes destructive when they claim a monopoly on truth and morality and declare anyone who disbelieves a sinner bound for hades.

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by YourHumbleNarrator

Religion only becomes destructive when they claim a monopoly on truth and morality and declare anyone who disbelieves a sinner bound for hades.

Excuse me fore generalizing, but I am going to throw a big blanket here. Judaism, Christianity, Muslim, they all adhere to exactly what you stated above. All significant religions espouse a specific point of view, and inflict negative consequences for not adhering to their ideals.

What is more confining than that.

Can you tell me of one major religion that does not fit the above criteria?

[joelr]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

I
There are many interpretations yes, but honestly there is only one correct interpretation. We won't get into that now though. Remember that there is only one truth.

I find it highly unlikely that there is only one path to God. Even within Christianity there are several different truths.

I agree with Joseph Campbell where he says "If you think you know, you don't know."

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by joelr

I find it highly unlikely that there is only one path to God. Even within Christianity there are several different truths.

I agree with Joseph Campbell where he says "If you think you know, you don't know."

Pax et bonum, Joelr.

Only in the spiritual do people begin to believe there are multiple truths. In all other things, it is accepted that something either is, or it is not. If something is perceived differently, it is the error of the observer, but it does not mean that the observed has multiple realities. Even in saying there are multiple truths, you are asserting the proposed truth that there are multiple truths, which is a paradox.

You cover up the word "truth" with "path to God," but they are essentially the same: there cannot be more than one truth; it is impossible.

There are not several different truths in Christianity. There are several different untruths, but just because it is part of Christianity doesn't mean it is true. There are many different denominations within Christianity itself which are based on falsehoods, because they thought they knew better than the Church to which Jesus gave all teaching authority.

There is one truth. Some answers we do not know, but that does not negate the fact that there is only one correct answer to such questions.

Do you believe that God, the very epitome and essence of truth, would accept humans believing and worshipping in falsehoods? Of course he does not. He cannot, because his very essence is truth.

Many religions contain fragments of truth, but that does not mean the religion is acceptable to God. However, if a person grasps those fragments, they will be led to the full truth.

By extension, anything that is not true, does not come from God, and will draw people away from the truth, and from God. He cannot stand anything that is false or a lie.

So yes, there is only one truth, only one path to God, and thus to heaven. The question is whether you are humble enough to pray to God to show you that truth. Do you believe you can find it yourself, or will you submit to God's will? That's what it is all about, and that's the decision we all have to make.

The problem is that so many people think they know better than God, and therefore can question his judgments and commandments. That's ridiculous. He has such a larger perspective than we do that it's insanity to think we can know well enough to make a judgment of God.

But what we can do is ask him humbly to show us the way. It might take a while to get there, but if one keeps their focus on God, all will work out.

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Pax et bonum, Joelr.
The problem is that so many people think they know better than God, and therefore can question his judgments and commandments. That's ridiculous. He has such a larger perspective than we do that it's insanity to think we can know well enough to make a judgment of God.

1. You spoke for God many times in your last comment? Sort of contradictory isn't it? To say "we don't know better than god" following a laundry list of things god does and doesn't allow.

2. Why do you preface god with a he?

3. You allude to the idea that all good things come from god. What then do you say of the bad? This is one of the main reasons I left the Christian Church. They say god created everything, and all things good come from god.

How can you not pin responsibility on god for the dark? Oh no, they say, "it was the devil." This fails the most basic 1st grade logic test. How is the one who CREATED the problem not responsible for the problem.

To me, the Christian god's perspective goes something like this. "I throw you in blind naked and screaming into this world. Some of you will never hear of my name, many more of you will be told that believing in jesus is wrong. But you better hurry because you only have 80 years or less to come to this truth or I will send you to hell for eternity."

Can you even begin to fathom the drop in the bucket that 80 years is, in the scope of eternity. How ludicrous is that? It sort of like a dart game at a cheap county carnival, not something from an all knowing god who allegedly loves us unconditionally.

[pianoperformer]

Pax et bonum, Liveformx64

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

1. You spoke for God many times in your last comment? Sort of contradictory isn't it? To say "we don't know better than god" following a laundry list of things god does and doesn't allow.

God tells us specifically what he does not allow in the Bible, and through his church, to whom he gave explicit teaching authority. if I am speaking in agreement with the Church, then it is true.

However what I meant was that someone thinks one thing or another is evil, but do not see the picture as God does. Yet they feel justified in blaming God.

Do you remember when you were a child, and your parents rules seem outdated, too strict, and as though they did not want you to have any fun? You thought you knew everything, thinking they were in the wrong. It is practically a universal rule of teenagers.

Hopefully as you got older, you came to see they were actually for the good. They were only interested in protecting you and giving you limits, so that you could make wise and informed decisions when you became an adult. They made you do your homework so you would have the foundation of knowledge you required when going out into the world.

Many people are like that with God. They scoff at his rules, as though they are outdated and unfair. Many people call the Church antiquated, and in need of modernization. Why would they not allow contraception or birth control? Many think that is way too strict and outdated. Why would they be against homosexual acts? Why would they be against premarital relations? Many cannot figure it out, and just want to do what they want to do, when they want to do it.

Our modern society is all about doing what we want to do, when we want to do it. But that is not reality. This cannot be done without severe consequences. The Church, and by extension, God, prevents us from doing these things, because if we do not listen to them and their rules, then the natural consequences of such sin will overcome us.

It is the same with all things that God commands. It may be very hard to see the reason for such rules that you call "ludicrous." But God sees much better than we do. he has infinitely more experience than we do. We must take in faith that he has our best interest at heart. He wants so much that each and every one of us would be saved.

But he will not save those who refuse to obey his commandments. To go against his commandments is to follow Satan, and there is no evil in heaven.

You are free to follow your own ways and to do what you want to do, but when you fail, he will be there waiting.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

2. Why do you preface god with a he?

Because he refers to himself that way in the Bible. It is irrelevant here.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

3. You allude to the idea that all good things come from god. What then do you say of the bad? This is one of the main reasons I left the Christian Church. They say god created everything, and all things good come from god.

How can you not pin responsibility on god for the dark? Oh no, they say, "it was the devil." This fails the most basic 1st grade logic test. How is the one who CREATED the problem not responsible for the problem.

He created us with free will. Many people choose to reject him. Satan himself chose to reject God.

God did not create evil, but he permitted it. There is a huge difference between God's ordained will, and his permissive will. He allows evil, but humanity has chosen it.

If you have a child, and you raise him or her very well, teach him or her well, but he or she decides to vere away and do something bad that you would not approve of, surely it would not be your fault? They have free will.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

To me, the Christian god's perspective goes something like this. "I throw you in blind naked and screaming into this world. Some of you will never hear of my name, many more of you will be told that believing in jesus is wrong. But you better hurry because you only have 80 years or less to come to this truth or I will send you to hell for eternity."

Can you even begin to fathom the drop in the bucket that 80 years is, in the scope of eternity. How ludicrous is that? It sort of like a dart game at a cheap county carnival, not something from an all knowing god who allegedly loves us unconditionally.

You have many misconceptions, and are setting up many strawmen.

You do not understand God's nature. He is perfectly and infinitely just, but also perfectly and infinitely merciful.

But you know, he will not allow someone into his kingdom who refuses to follow him. Of course not everyone knows the truth, but he knows their hearts. He will not condemn them for never having heard of the truth before, but he will condemn them for refusing to follow the truth. Again, he knows their hearts. He knows if they would rather follow their own path, or if they can humble themselves and follow him, which is the only way to eternal life and happiness.

I leave it between you and God. I can do nothing. I will not debate with you if you are only interested in disrespecting the Christian faith and our God.

However, I do hope that you come to see the truth eventually, however long it takes.

[Orecle]

To pianoperformer
as a struggling christian, i am blessed and priviledged to read your words

many many thanks

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Pax et bonum,
You do not understand God's nature. He is perfectly and infinitely merciful.

This will be my final question, and I thank you for your time discussing this.

The very concept of a place of eternal punishment completely contradicts your above statement.

In the finite physical world, punishment is usually setup for one to learn from ones mistakes so that one can understand and better oneself. Therefore if a god were to setup these scenarios for learning this is seems like something a loving god might do.

However, many modern versions of the bible clearly state there is a place of eternal punishment and separation from god. But turn the page and the bible says god loves us unconditionally.

An eternal punishment is not love. When you are a child and you knock over the lamp, your parents don't throw you in the oven and put it on high. That is clearly not love. How infinitely worse would it be to be thrown in the big oven, with wailing and gnashing of teeth and all that. That is the creation/allowance of a loving god?

With all seriousness, and all due respect, how to do you arrive at a conclusion between this contradiction?

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by Orecle

To pianoperformer
as a struggling christian, i am blessed and priviledged to read your words

many many thanks

This is an interesting reflection you provided to me that I am grateful for.

I find it interesting how you can find insight and truth in that message, while myself reading the same words can only find contradiction and double talk.

One message Two Truths. A paradox indeed.

To me this is proof that this world was created not as a place of right and wrong. It is not a proving ground; Your one shot at making it to heaven. But a wonderful experience of highs and lows, hots and colds, life and death. Something our creator can only experience through us. Prime creator experiences through us, our infinite and expanding experiences. we are his antennae, the hairs on his arm so to speak, feeling sensing and experiencing through our eyes the beauty of our co-creation and infinite free will.

You are not A god

You are God.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by Orecle

To pianoperformer
as a struggling christian, i am blessed and priviledged to read your words

many many thanks

Pax et bonum, Orecle,

I thank God that you got something out of my message. Let all glory be God's, as from him does all truth and understanding come. I am grateful that I could be an instrument through which he can give you understanding and insight.

I will pray for you, Orecle. I'd appreciate if you'd pray for me as well, as I am going on a retreat tomorrow for five days, with the Confraternity of Penitents. I feel it is God's will, as everything has fallen into place perfectly, even the travel arrangements that would enable me to attend (I can't drive since I'm blind). I would be very grateful if you'd keep me in your prayers.

[pianoperformer]

Pax et bonum, Liveformx64.

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

This will be my final question, and I thank you for your time discussing this.

The very concept of a place of eternal punishment completely contradicts your above statement.

In the finite physical world, punishment is usually setup for one to learn from ones mistakes so that one can understand and better oneself. Therefore if a god were to setup these scenarios for learning this is seems like something a loving god might do.

However, many modern versions of the bible clearly state there is a place of eternal punishment and separation from god. But turn the page and the bible says god loves us unconditionally.

An eternal punishment is not love. When you are a child and you knock over the lamp, your parents don't throw you in the oven and put it on high. That is clearly not love. How infinitely worse would it be to be thrown in the big oven, with wailing and gnashing of teeth and all that. That is the creation/allowance of a loving god?

With all seriousness, and all due respect, how to do you arrive at a conclusion between this contradiction?

We have many decades here to learn from our mistakes. You see, sin leads to suffering, even if it is not clear at first how that is. Sin separates us from God; it is a rejection of God's commandments. It acts against nature, as sin is by definition, unnatural.

God does everything he can to help us learn that while we are here, without violating our right to free will. He refuses to do that, as he wants us to freely choose and love him; he doesn't want a host of mindless automatons.

You see, he created us out of love, as God is love. The Holy Trinity has infinite love flowing between the persons of the Trinity, but also he sends that love outward into creation and into humanity. He wants to allow us to experience immense and infinite happiness, just as is his nature.

Those who reject his commandments are rejecting happiness. They look for short-term happiness, but it does not last. No sin brings long-lasting happiness.

We all sin, though. That's what purgatory is for, to purify those who are still attached to sin, but do their best to follow God still.

Hell is for those who reject God, and reject the truth.

We don't know who goes to hell. I can't tel you for sure who is or who is not going to hell, as that is God's job.

I will, however, share with you a video of a priest who had a near death experience. He found himself before the judgment seat of Christ, and he found himself condemned. Why? Because he had been a priest for himself, and not to serve God. He had sinned, and he did not really care. God takes very seriously his command to priests that they lead and feed his sheep, as Jesus asked St. Peter to do in the gospels.

It was only through the intercession of the Virgin Mary, who asked Jesus to just give the priest a little more time, to see if he would "bear fruit" with the help of God's special grace. He agreed, and the priest came back.

You may see the video here.

There can be nothing less than eternal bliss in heaven. It can only be attained by those who follow God's commandments and give their sin over to Jesus, asking for forgiveness, and promising to amend their lives. The prayer of contrition goes thusly:

Oh my God,
I am heartily sorry for having offended thee,
because I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell,
but most of all because they offend thee, my God,
who are all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve with the help of thy grace,
to confess my sins,
to do penance,
and to amend my life.
Amen.

Hell is the total separation from God. Whether there are actual tortures there, I do not know. However all that pales in comparison with the pain and anguish of being separated from God.

Here on earth, even if things are not perfect, God is always with us. All good things come from God. All things that are loving, good, honest, hopeful, can only come from God. Hell is the total removal of all of God's grace from the individual, because that person has rejected God.

As horrible as it is, the person would rather be there than to be in God's presence.

Satan was thrown out of heaven, but he never even thought of repenting. He cannot, because he had full knowledge of what he was doing when he made that decision. His hatred keeps him away from God.

It is indeed a terrible place, but there is no other option when someone rejects God.

No one can accidentally end up there. It is a very willful thing. This priest who had that experience said that he knew when he stood in judgment, that his sentence would be hell, and that he deserved it. There was nothing he could say in rebuttal.

Liveformx64, you will not understand unless you open up to the truth. Such things require faith, and faith is a supernatural gift from God. I pray that God will show you the truth, though.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Only in the spiritual do people begin to believe there are multiple truths. In all other things, it is accepted that something either is, or it is not. If something is perceived differently, it is the error of the observer, but it does not mean that the observed has multiple realities. Even in saying there are multiple truths, you are asserting the proposed truth that there are multiple truths, which is a paradox.

I would like to compare God and/or religion to a large mountain (only in this respect)

The man from the south sees a red stone with large caves in it.

The man from the north sees a round stone, yellowish.

At the east there is a woman who sees a green slope.

West a woman who sees a very steep and slippery rock.


If they meet each other and they are talking about their mountain, they will all say something different. Are they all wrong? Are they all right? How can they all be right if they say contracitory things?

I believe this is the same with religion. They are all agreeing about the major things (there is a God, there is a mountain) but differ in opinion what it looks like.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

There is one truth. Some answers we do not know, but that does not negate the fact that there is only one correct answer to such questions.

This felt relevant:

[DoctorB2B]

For the christians ... since we're on this subject ... can you provide some insight?

The story goes that God was there before everything and knew all in the beginning, knows what is going on how and knows what will happen in the future. He "wrote" this story of mankind knowing all ... all the failures, from the initial fall of man to the daily struggle all of us have now ... the chasm this would create between he and us. He knew one of his angels would try to become a god ... as he created them. He knew that one day this fallen angel would have an eternal resting place known as hell.

All-knowing God created mankind with the foreknowledge that from the beginning we are going to make choices that without faith in him would lead us to eternal damnation ... that a very large percentage of the population (currently) will not choose to follow him, but rather some other religion or nothing altogether ... knowing that these choices that we make will lead to the worst possible fate one could imagine.

So, in terms of logic, A + B = C. Here A=All knowing God, B=God created man knowing they would sin, and C=God creating mankind knowing they would suffer his wrath for eternity.

God has given this fallen angel dominion over this world and with granted permission the ability to try and drag as many people/souls with him as possible. I think it's fair to conclude that with this granted dominion, we see evidence of the fallen angels attempts via a plethora of what seem to be logical religious choices outside of christianity, the ability to simply say no to religion period, and an opportunity to sin even in what would seem the most trivial ways (which ultimately separate us from god).

So ... all that said, christianity boasts of a god of love, justice, etc. However, right now there are roughly four billion non-christians on this planet. That's four billion people that will perish eternally ... how is it love when those "unfortunate" souls, born in another culture, to suffer wrath when they have been raised to believe that their religion is just as much "the way" as you believe christianity is yours?

To piggyback that, here is a generic example. The destiny of person A was already established before person A ever took a breath on this planet. Person A was born in India in a village practicing predominantly buddhism. Person A grows and is taught by his family, those God has entrusted him to, that buddhism is the correct path. Person A is exposed to christianity via a short-term missions group that passes through. Person A grows old and dies never choosing to defect from the faith of his youth ... God knew Person A would never choose to leave because he created him knowing every choice he would ever make. According to the christian faith, Person A shares the same eternity with the fallen angel.

One more thought .... Mahatma Ghandi and Adolf Hitler, according to many christians I've had the unfortunate privilege of meeting, share the same eternal fate according to the doctrine.

Because I cant reconcile the above issues within myself, nor can anyone really provide answers that I think only a creator could give, I walked away from the faith .... anyone want to share their thoughts

[vMike]

haha nice comic Michael

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by pianoperformer

Pax et bonum, Joelr.

Only in the spiritual do people begin to believe there are multiple truths. In all other things, it is accepted that something either is, or it is not. If something is perceived differently, it is the error of the observer, but it does not mean that the observed has multiple realities. Even in saying there are multiple truths, you are asserting the proposed truth that there are multiple truths, which is a paradox.

You cover up the word "truth" with "path to God," but they are essentially the same: there cannot be more than one truth; it is impossible.

There are not several different truths in Christianity. There are several different untruths, but just because it is part of Christianity doesn't mean it is true. There are many different denominations within Christianity itself which are based on falsehoods, because they thought they knew better than the Church to which Jesus gave all teaching authority.

There is one truth. Some answers we do not know, but that does not negate the fact that there is only one correct answer to such questions.

Do you believe that God, the very epitome and essence of truth, would accept humans believing and worshipping in falsehoods? Of course he does not. He cannot, because his very essence is truth.

Many religions contain fragments of truth, but that does not mean the religion is acceptable to God. However, if a person grasps those fragments, they will be led to the full truth.

By extension, anything that is not true, does not come from God, and will draw people away from the truth, and from God. He cannot stand anything that is false or a lie.

So yes, there is only one truth, only one path to God, and thus to heaven. The question is whether you are humble enough to pray to God to show you that truth. Do you believe you can find it yourself, or will you submit to God's will? That's what it is all about, and that's the decision we all have to make.

The problem is that so many people think they know better than God, and therefore can question his judgments and commandments. That's ridiculous. He has such a larger perspective than we do that it's insanity to think we can know well enough to make a judgment of God.

But what we can do is ask him humbly to show us the way. It might take a while to get there, but if one keeps their focus on God, all will work out.

Pianoperfomer is an understatement i would rather prefer Wordperfomer, this is what God is capable of OP if only you open up to his call, who could believe that this could happen. Reading from the same script albeit not always with the ' searcher of the truth'

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

There's an additional problem. Just because I say I'm something doesn't mean I'm really that thing.
What if I actually AM Christian (for example I don't want to go to hell) or
what if I actually AM a Satanist (because of my personality traits and philosophy)?

I would appreciate your feedback as always.

"Not going to hell", is a pitiful reason to become a christian.
And whatever other (satanic)-influences imprinted your personality, with lost-philosophies, you can change... too should you want.

Question is: What do you want? - Let me ask you this: How in LOVE with LIFE are you
now?
I ask - because trying to serve 2 masters, will only leave you twisted & empty.

In contrast, How full... do you want your soul, mind & body, you know with joyful beliefs, thoughts, actions, habits, because you allowed God/Jesus, as your Creator, Father, Teacher, Savior, Mentor, Best-friend, Resurrector to "save" you. - see, God/Jesus loves you so extravagantly He wants to share the eternities with you, His child. And all He asks is that you accept Him, for guiding... you more into this kind of life-Abundantly..., like God/Jesus said in John 10:10 "I came that they might have life, and this more abundantly." Naturally, you want to also share these opportunities with others too. Such growing positivisms... are the reasons you become, & choose living... as a Christian. and in this, I wish you well!
.

[Mikahcho]

I feel, from reading all those pros and cons, some of your are almost mistreating religious context

i dont mean to be rude there, by the way ^_^

but you are spreading out the pros and cons like you are deciding on which car to choose, and thats not right, is it? ^_^

you dont do that, but research and practically get out there and 'test-drive' them, if you will :P

find which touches your heart and hold on to that one

or why not just take all the pros nd attempt to be the best personyou can be?

[sk8joyful]

Originally Posted by DoctorB2B

Mahatma Ghandi and Adolf Hitler, according to many christians I've had the unfortunate privilege of meeting, share the same eternal fate according to the doctrine.

Because I cant reconcile the above issues within myself, nor can anyone really provide answers that I think only a creator could give, I walked away from the faith .... anyone want to share their thoughts.

For the christians ... since we're on this subject ... can you provide some insight?

Yes,
best you get your answers from God/Jesus, who provided them richly in the Bible, aside also writing them inside your soul, mind, & heart.

Everyone makes their own choice. And you will own, your choice eternally. - (It makes absolutely no sense, why anybody would settle for hell), when the Alternative, namely choosing the way of Christ translates into a joyful, heavenly-way of life. - And it's the easiest thing, to Accept Christ as your personal, as well as universal-Creator, Father, Teacher, Savior, Mentor, Best-friend & Resurrector. For as Jesus said, in John 10:10 "I came to bring you life, and this more abundant" Yes!

And (abandoning the usual fear-mongering crap), as a medical-doctor, you can as well Offer to teach each patient client how he & she can Empower... their own life, and more abundantly... in this, richly Blessed by GOD, live... Cheers!

[DoctorB2B]

Originally Posted by sk8joyful

Yes,
best you get your answers from God/Jesus, who provided them richly in the Bible, aside also writing them inside your soul, mind, & heart.

Everyone makes their own choice. And you will own, your choice eternally. - (It makes absolutely no sense, why anybody would settle for hell), when the Alternative, namely choosing the way of Christ translates into a joyful, heavenly-way of life. - And it's the easiest thing, to Accept Christ as your personal, as well as universal-Creator, Father, Teacher, Savior, Mentor, Best-friend & Resurrector. For as Jesus said, in John 10:10 "I came to bring you life, and this more abundant" Yes!

And (abandoning the usual fear-mongering crap), as a medical-doctor, you can as well Offer to teach each patient client how he & she can Empower... their own life, and more abundantly... in this, richly Blessed by GOD, live... Cheers!

Respectfully, this means nothing to someone who doesn't buy what you're selling. I just spouted off substantial reasoning for disbelief and you say to turn to the Bible, which doesn't and/or hasn't given an answer the questions for which I seek answers. To believe what the Bible had to say would also mean that I would believe in the god of the Bible which I have declared that I do not.

You said that you don't understand why someone would choose hell ... someone isn't choosing hell if they don't subscribe to christianity. They choose what they presume to be correct because of any number of circumstances, i.e. how they were raised.

You're giving a subjective answer, which when it comes to religion I suppose is the only answer one can give ... however I feel the questions I proposed a little more attention that "REPENT ... and thou shall be saved" jargon.

No offense meant.

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by DoctorB2B

Respectfully, this means nothing to someone who doesn't buy what you're selling. I just spouted off substantial reasoning for disbelief and you say to turn to the Bible, which doesn't and/or hasn't given an answer the questions for which I seek answers. To believe what the Bible had to say would also mean that I would believe in the god of the Bible which I have declared that I do not.

You said that you don't understand why someone would choose hell ... someone isn't choosing hell if they don't subscribe to christianity. They choose what they presume to be correct because of any number of circumstances, i.e. how they were raised.

You're giving a subjective answer, which when it comes to religion I suppose is the only answer one can give ... however I feel the questions I proposed a little more attention that "REPENT ... and thou shall be saved" jargon.

No offense meant.

Coming from deep within such a belief system one loses all perspective and empathy towards anyone other than those already sharing those beliefs.

Have you ever heard of the saying "beating a dead horse" ? Yeah, that's us.

I guess for our sake, if the Christians are truly compassionate they should hope they are ultimately incorrect.

[BlackFalcon]

We have to love everyone, but not necessarily like them. The term hate the sin, but not the sinner, comes to mind. If you hate another, it is a form of pride because you think your sins are not as bad as theirs. All sin is offensive to God.

[Liveformx64]

Originally Posted by BlackFalcon

We have to love everyone

"Have to", implies obligation. Obligation implies an 'obligator' who is this?

Originally Posted by BlackFalcon

All sin is offensive to God.

which god do you speak of?