Age! Why does it still matter?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by newsbone

Don’t tell me that the GREAT NATION does not have skeletons in its closets.

Sounds like you strongly identify with your continent, but my remarks about what happens there don't necessarily mean anything about you, or about any particular person living there. fgm is a practice that is also condoned in parts of the Middle East, and in tiny pockets of emigrees here in the U.S. My point has nothing to do with the making people wrong geographically, although I am glad to be living in a part of the world where such practices are less readily accepted. My point was that those practices, like child molestation, have adult exploitation of children in common -- power-over, with a win/lose intention.

And for your information I think rape is not a right even in Africa

You missed my point again, which is that the rapists likely feel it is their right to rape, because they believe their lives are at stake (and are more important than the lives and health of the virgins they rape). Again, the parallel is that the adults who feel they have the right to have sex with and/or impregnate children are behaving with the same lack of integrity, by which I mean they are not operating with a win/win intention.

... but FGM is an acceptable practice even beyond the Dark Continent which is done to reduce a woman’s libido, therefore I strongly advice you to go for it as I cant help but notice your fascination about sex in this thread that otherwise should be covering a wider perspective of freedoms.

I guess you're not done with the personal attacks, after all. Pretty gruesome, newsbone, to strongly advise another member to have her genitals mutilated to quell her libido. Ick.

The girls who are raped do not participate in making the decisions that leads to being raped, the rapist’s right to unilateral control of the decision making process is the typical thinking you seem to propagate.

I see the rapist's "right" to unilateral control over his young victims as being equivalent to an adult's "right" to have sex with a minor. I just don't believe a 9 year old has the capacity to make a real choice (informed, aware) regarding sex with an adult, and that's the litmus test for rape -- no real choice. That's why they call it statutory rape. So I'd say you're interpreting my thinking backwards, because I don't give grant authority to these rapist's self-claimed "rights."

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by aggie

newsbone, you have mentioned that children don't have the mechanism to to deal with adults tresspassing on their legally and socially acceptable behavior...we would not need a government, we would not need law enforcement, we would not need schools, we would not need social "rules" for lack of a better world....heck, we wouldn't need parents!...let's just get out the petry dishes and test tubes, grow children and let them have at it with all the adults who don't want to trespass!....i hope you don't take this personally, or racially or anything else...but if you believe so strongly in some of the things you think are ok....then you really need to live somewhere where others believe it is ok....you can't make the majority of this society believe that we should change to this "freedom" that you are offering.

aggie! Am not offering any kind of 'freedom' my stand simply put says that 'age should not be THE reason of stopping people live the kind of lives that they want. I believe you live an 'adult' life predetermined by other people; this is slavery as it is not your decision but the resolution reached by people who did not involve you in making the decision. Adults unconsciously program the kids to conduct themselves in a manner preordained, they are always doomed from the word go; kids need this and that; they do not need this or that.
Adult 1: What did Paul do?
Adult 2: He did this or that.
Adult 1: Oh don’t mind that; he is an adolescent isn’t he?

Adult 3: Mama I love john so much and I think we are going to get married;
Adult 4: Mary please stop it you don’t know what love is, I’ll buy you a puppy instead.

How do you expect them to react to these especially when they listen to such discussions? They know that they now have permission to misbehave,
why? It is how their parents expect them to.

[aggie]

newsbone, i am sorry, but you are confusing me...you say adults/parents program their children...don't give them choice to react, etc, etc...then you talk about giving them permission to misbehave....and how do you go from rape and sex with minors and sexual mutilation to "puppy love?"....

[Angela]

Originally Posted by newsbone

'age should not be THE reason of stopping people live the kind of lives that they want.

Well, you're in luck, because it's not.

Protections are in place, and consequences will result, but that doesn't stop a person from living the life they want (choosing to have sex with an adult, smoke cigarettes, enter into a contract, drink alcohol) if they are resolute about doing so.

Consequences don't stop people from living the kind of life they want -- their own beliefs about the possible consequences are what stop them.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by Angela

You missed my point again, which is that the rapists likely feel it is their right to rape, because they believe their lives are at stake (and are more important than the lives and health of the virgins they rape). Again, the parallel is that the adults who feel they have the right to have sex with and/or impregnate children are behaving with the same lack of integrity, by which I mean they are not operating with a win/win intention.
"

I kind of propagate against legal and social laws not lawlessness Angela! There are various lawful instances that were not long ago cosidered as unlawful. I don’t think rape falls within any the circumstances thus my strong reaction; sorry!

[newsbone]

aggie! Kids do not choose to misbehave but we often times program them to! By saying misbehaving i mean normal adolescent /childish behaviors that are taken as an anathema when adults act the same. If we decide to take them seriously without first casting aspersions at their ability to think straight then I believe we will be surprised.

[aggie]

that sounds like you think adults should be allowed to act childish in the sense if they do something that might be considered "misbehaving" maybe even unlawful...even though as adults, the should know the differences and the consequences...they should go for it? even if it is sex with a child?...by the way, you say you are not talking of a "freedom"...if what you consider to be the opposite of that "slavery"...you indeed are!

[newsbone]

aggie! I think we have to agree that there some actions that are only becomes against the law when commited by a certain age group, but considered acceptable to another for instance; a teenage football player having sex with a 14 years old is quite acceptable but only becomes unlawful when 40 years old man with a small phallus does the same with the girl. why?

[aggie]

are you using phallus in the literally or figurative sense....please....in actuality...sex by either with the 14 year old girl...would be statutory rape....and that is if she consents...otherwise it would be rape...i think you are grasping for straws in your reasoning. if it feels good do it and if you get caught, deal with it?

[ballhit2]

Originally Posted by newsbone

aggie! I think we have to agree that there some actions that are only becomes against the law when commited by a certain age group, but considered acceptable to another for instance; a teenage football player having sex with a 14 years old is quite acceptable but only becomes unlawful when 40 years old man with a small phallus does the same with the girl. why?

My subjective reality becomes "creepy" when you jump from teenager to 40 year old..and when you mention the size of their penis being smaller as if that somehow justified the in-potentia act.

[James81]

Originally Posted by newsbone

aggie! I think we have to agree that there some actions that are only becomes against the law when commited by a certain age group, but considered acceptable to another for instance; a teenage football player having sex with a 14 years old is quite acceptable but only becomes unlawful when 40 years old man with a small phallus does the same with the girl. why?

I think it's wrong because a 40 year old and a 14 year old aren't on the same mental capacity. (Oh, and btw, I know there is a double standard here too...if a 40 year old woman has sex with a 14 year old boy, people cheer....which I think is disgusting personally....)

A 14 year old is still trying to get a handle on the world, doesn't have a whole lot of experience with which to base her decisions on, doesn't understand the consequences of sex, etc. A 40 year old, on the other hand, has the experience, is used to the world, *should* understand at that point the consequences of sex, etc.

I think that that fact alone sets the 40 year old at an obvious advantage in manipulating a 14 year old. And a 14 year old wouldn't have the mental resources to deal with that or see it coming.

[lasti]

Originally Posted by James81

I think it's wrong because a 40 year old and a 14 year old aren't on the same mental capacity. (Oh, and btw, I know there is a double standard here too...if a 40 year old woman has sex with a 14 year old boy, people cheer....which I think is disgusting personally....)

A 14 year old is still trying to get a handle on the world, doesn't have a whole lot of experience with which to base her decisions on, doesn't understand the consequences of sex, etc. A 40 year old, on the other hand, has the experience, is used to the world, *should* understand at that point the consequences of sex, etc.

I think that that fact alone sets the 40 year old at an obvious advantage in manipulating a 14 year old. And a 14 year old wouldn't have the mental resources to deal with that or see it coming.

The problems and consequences of sex are the same in every age. Why should a 14 year old not have sex with a 40 year old when he or she can have it with another 14 year old?
You don't need sex for abusing your power anyway. And intimiate (but not sexual) relationships aren't forbidden between teens and adults either.

[aggie]

i am a woman and i don't cheer if a 40 year old woman has sex with a 14 yo boy...i also think that is disgusting...but, i digress...yes, newsbone...i also cannot believe that you think that a small phallus would make it somehow ok...and still totally ignoring the factual unlawfulness of it...

[James81]

Originally Posted by lasti

The problems and consequences of sex are the same in every age. Why should a 14 year old not have sex with a 40 year old when he or she can have it with another 14 year old?
You don't need sex for abusing your power anyway. And intimiate (but not sexual) relationships aren't forbidden between teens and adults either.

Because another 14 year old would be at a similar mental capacity and life experience. A 40 year old is not.

And look at it this way...what do a 14 year old and a 40 year old possibly have in common?

[aggie]

even if a 14 year old can have sex with another 14 year old and she consents and wants to have sex with a 40 year old...he is still committing statutory rape....and if a man of 40 allows it to happen...he obviously is out to prove something about his manhood, cannot deal with a mature sexual encounter...he might be afraid (especially if he has a small phallus) of being rejected or criticized by a peer...it is easy to look wordly and virile in the eyes of a 14 year old...and maybe she has father figure issues...either way it is something that is not so cut and dried as two people having sex and nothing makes it legal or ok.

[lasti]

Originally Posted by aggie

even if a 14 year old can have sex with another 14 year old and she consents and wants to have sex with a 40 year old...he is still committing statutory rape....and if a man of 40 allows it to happen...he obviously is out to prove something about his manhood, cannot deal with a mature sexual encounter...he might be afraid (especially if he has a small phallus) of being rejected or criticized by a peer...it is easy to look wordly and virile in the eyes of a 14 year old...and maybe she has father figure issues...either way it is something that is not so cut and dried as two people having sex and nothing makes it legal or ok.

A whole bunch of clichees there.
As if sexual love isn't possible beyond age.
I know it is. Sorry you're not me.

[ohTen]

the only age-related law that I disapprove of is the drinking age (and tobacco laws in some states that restrict sales to 19, 20, or 21 in some cases). I see absolutely no reason why this right should be witheld from people until they're 21 when every other right is granted at the age of 18. If you are deemed mature enough to choose to go die in a war, you're certainly mature enough to buy and consume a pint of beer. Most people start drinking in their teens, anyway!

As for laws that restrict everything else: i thought that they were stupid until I reached adulthood and realized how stupid I was as a teenager. Seriously...teenagers make some pretty moronic decisions, many of which have lifelong consequences. You do not have a rational adult mind at that age (not everybody does at 18, for that matter), and cannot make rational adult decisions. Those laws are in place to protect you. You will understand when you are older and can look back on your teen years - i promise! Nobody is immune to doing dumb things and making bad choices.

[aggie]

lasti, saying sexual love goes beyond age is cliche also...and i am sure whatever your age you feel that you really do know. and please don't feel sorry for me...my sex life is just fine.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by aggie

are you using phallus in the literally or figurative sense....please....in actuality...sex by either with the 14 year old girl...would be statutory rape....and that is if she consents...otherwise it would be rape...i think you are grasping for straws in your reasoning. if it feels good do it and if you get caught, deal with it?

It statutory rape because someone made a law to that effect i think that is the straw, you keep mentioning laws to support your point of view while am propagating the abolition of the same, try and move to the center at least aggie.

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by ballhit2

My subjective reality becomes "creepy" when you jump from teenager to 40 year old..and when you mention the size of their penis being smaller as if that somehow justified the in-potentia act.

What is the effect pschological or otherwise if a teenager has sex with another teenager which is quite different if he/she had it with a fourty year old and vice versa?

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by James81

A 14 year old is still trying to get a handle on the world, doesn't have a whole lot of experience with which to base her decisions on, doesn't understand the consequences of sex, etc. A 40 year old, on the other hand, has the experience, is used to the world, *should* understand at that point the consequences of sex, etc.

Dont they teach sexual education in schools anymore? I think with the availability of information on the dangers and benefits of sex to the pre-teenage children makes them fully aware of the consequences of sex; your observation in away says you dont trust the system to fully make them comprehend issues pertaining to sex, on the contrary i think they are well prepared and if not then they should be.

[lasti]

Originally Posted by aggie

lasti, saying sexual love goes beyond age is cliche also...and i am sure whatever your age you feel that you really do know. and please don't feel sorry for me...my sex life is just fine.

A cliche is something you assume, not something you feel. I feel it every day.
Great that your sex life is fine - my sex life wouldn't even have been possible in the US before I was 18 (in Germany the laws are better ).

[aggie]

newsbone...maybe there is no center for some of us on this issue...if you just want to abolish laws that do not suit your point of view...than you are right that is your straw...it is not going to change anything because you think it is ok not to have laws or rules about some things to protect people...and you are not going to change minds...if you feel that strongly about it, as i said you need to reside where others feel likewise and go about your life...this is a forum to express opinions not revamp a whole system of society to your liking...or mine for that matter...it also is a lot about personal taste and personal morals or boundaries or whatever...there are double standards involved, there are egos (mostly male perpetuated)...ya know, i really in my heart of hearts cannot care a whole lot if a 14 old girl wants to rationalize hooking up with a 40 year old man and vice versa....like is said...some people no matter what are going to do it if it feels good and worry about the consequences later. in my head i feel it hurts our society how things are headed...and that someone may really be hurt along the way.

[aggie]

lasti, you have brought up another point...we are talking about something that is also culture or country related...and it is fine what works for other societies and other cultures in other countries...everyone should stay or go wherever the laws feel "better" to them if they do not want to abide by the laws where they currently abide...

[newsbone]

aggie, am not trying to force you into seeing things my way but it is reality that most of the laws that you hold dear are bound to be changed as the society takes another giant step in social evolution, and the earlier you prepare yourself to deal with it the better, just a thought anyway!

[lasti]

Originally Posted by aggie

everyone should stay or go wherever the laws feel "better" to them if they do not want to abide by the laws where they currently abide...

Well, there are always a lot of dumb laws in Germany. Can't say the laws are the reason I'm staying here.

[aggie]

newsbone...our society's evolution is already a little scarey to me...we will shall see.....

[lasti]

Originally Posted by aggie

our society's evolution is already a little scarey to me..

Why is that?

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by ohTen

the only age-related law that I disapprove of is the drinking age (and tobacco laws in some states that restrict sales to 19, 20, or 21 in some cases). I see absolutely no reason why this right should be witheld from people until they're 21 when every other right is granted at the age of 18. If you are deemed mature enough to choose to go die in a war, you're certainly mature enough to buy and consume a pint of beer. Most people start drinking in their teens, anyway!.

Age related laws are obsolete and should be done away with, why do they restrict voting until one attains a specific age, is he or she not a citizen of that particular country until he/she attains a certain age? Talk of double standards.

Originally Posted by ohTen

As for laws that restrict everything else: i thought that they were stupid until I reached adulthood and realized how stupid I was as a teenager. Seriously...teenagers make some pretty moronic decisions, many of which have lifelong consequences. You do not have a rational adult mind at that age (not everybody does at 18, for that matter), and cannot make rational adult decisions. Those laws are in place to protect you. You will understand when you are older and can look back on your teen years - i promise! Nobody is immune to doing dumb things and making bad choices.

You only felt stupid because you had reached the age that considers what you were going to do dumb or stupid. A rational adult mind is a manipulated brain thus can’t be trusted, the psyche has been influenced by social and legal laws to think in a specific way therefore cant claim an iota of independence. Are you trying to assume that dumb/stupid choices are a preserve for the teenagers and kids in which one can outgrow and can only be repeated by some adults?

[newsbone]

aggie, the earlier you prepare yourself to accept the challenges offered by society's evolution the better for you.We cant wish them away you know!