Integrity - Unemployment Insurance

[ASQ]

Hey all -

My first post. Need advice.

An acquaintance is starting her own business. She is receiving unemployment and must certify on a regular basis that she is applying to at least three positions a week. She is not doing this. She is lying on a regular basis to the umemployment department in order to continue to receive this money.

My questions:
-To keep my integrity, being knowledgable about this situation, am I obligated to report this or somehow address it?
-I believe she may have success with her business. Knowing it is built on a lie how can I be happy for her success? If she were starting her business while being gainfully employed, or risking her own money, or even just applying for positions and accepting one if it came along, I could easily be happy for her success.

Thank you.

[sirkinm]

Originally Posted by ASQ

An acquaintance is starting her own business. She is receiving unemployment and must certify on a regular basis that she is applying to at least three positions a week. She is not doing this. She is lying on a regular basis to the umemployment department in order to continue to receive this money.

My questions:
-To keep my integrity, being knowledgable about this situation, am I obligated to report this or somehow address it?
-I believe she may have success with her business. Knowing it is built on a lie how can I be happy for her success? If she were starting her business while being gainfully employed, or risking her own money, or even just applying for positions and accepting one if it came along, I could easily be happy for her success.

You should report her to the FBI at once!

You can either a) be happy for her success or b) obsess over her deception. Wait, there's option c): Just chill. Concern yourself with yourself. ASQ, it's not something that causes anyone immediate danger, but if you're too righteous to be associated with someone who would engage in that behavior, or you can't accept your friend's short-coming in this area, break off the friendship and let her know why.

I doubt she will be distraught simply because you can't be happy for her, so don't sweat it.

[aelle]

I wouldn't even come close to imagining reporting a friend in this situation. In my opinion, your friend may be cheating the law in its words, but not in its spirit ; she's not staying on her couch all day after all, she's working towards creating her own job! I can't really see any unethical behaviour here, assuming that her business isn't turning profit yet.

[RT Wolf]

That's a tricky one.

Maybe there's other option available as sirkinm suggested. Perhaps you could just stop being her friend? Someone who you consider as not having integrity is probably not a good person to keep around.

Another option is aelle's.

[James81]

Originally Posted by aelle

I wouldn't even come close to imagining reporting a friend in this situation. In my opinion, your friend may be cheating the law in its words, but not in its spirit ; she's not staying on her couch all day after all, she's working towards creating her own job! I can't really see any unethical behaviour here, assuming that her business isn't turning profit yet.

Exactly what I was thinking.

It's not like she's sitting on her ass all day watching Oprah. She's actually trying to create her own business and work for herself (an ideal with which a lot of us here on this board not only subscribe to, but are working towards ourselves).

You should be happy that your friend is taking the initiative to start her own business.

[ASQ]

Thanks to those who have replied thus far. Your responses are very helpful.

The consensus in response to my first question, seems to be, for my integrity, even though I'm knowledgeable about the situation, I'm not obligated to address it in any direct way.

As far as the second question, generally can be very happy for people, no matter their short-comings, as we all have them. Perhaps this is an area for my own personal development as I admire to no end those who establish their own companies and have the courage and determination to do so. I just have difficulty with the stealing part. If everyone who wanted to start their own business took unemployment, the system would crash. So, I'll focus on this piece -- can't quite, yet, see the way.

Helpful responses thus far and I welcome any others.

Thank you.

[RT Wolf]

Well, the question is tricky, too: what's the basis of your morality. Is it just following rules? Integrity to what? Integrity to the spirit of your friendship? Integrity to your system of values? Integrity to rules? Integrity to the spirit of economic development that unemployment is supposed to allow and help? Isn't she then totally in keeping with the spirit of economic development? Perhaps she will form a company that hires others off of unemployment, reducing the burden on the system in the future?

Definitely consider before adopting universalization as a moral standard (what if everyone did that?).

[ASQ]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Well, the question is tricky, too: what's the basis of your morality. Is it just following rules? Integrity to what? Integrity to the spirit of your friendship? Integrity to your system of values? Integrity to rules? Integrity to the spirit of economic development that unemployment is supposed to allow and help? Isn't she then totally in keeping with the spirit of economic development? Perhaps she will form a company that hires others off of unemployment, reducing the burden on the system in the future?

Definitely consider before adopting universalization as a moral standard (what if everyone did that?).

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure what you mean in the last sentence. Unless you mean that my statement about if everyone did it, it would bring the system down -- in which case, I think I understand.

As far as the beginning of your post, very helpful questions. I will think about this to see if it helps me reach a conclusion on this. When I posted my question, what I found troubling was the lying needed to get the money. In my (perhaps very naive mind) I think there can be a way to do things without this. But then again, given an earlier post, this makes me too righteous?

Perhaps the answer is a simple as everyone has different rules that they live by and I should just accept everyone since they are living according to their own morality as long as they aren't inflicting bodily harm on another? I think someone earlier suggested this. I'll think about this as well.

Thanks again -- and my questions aren't directed at you -- simply my thoughts in response to you post, which was very helpful. Thank you.

[Liveformx64]

If she is starting her own business, she is probably applying for income about 80 hours a week. Just because it doesn't fit the rank and file employee-employer relationship doesn't mean it is wrong.

Is she taking in any income? My guess is she is investing every penny she gets into 1. living expenses 2. business start-up expenses.

I would scratch it off as a mere technicality and give her a call in the middle of the afternoon and congratulate her on her hard work at becoming self employed.

[Brutha]

In my (perhaps very naive mind) I think there can be a way to do things without this. But then again, given an earlier post, this makes me too righteous?

You aren't the person who is lying.

I personally don't even would have an ethical problem with lying in a case like that. The rule exist to get people into work again. Your friend doesn't violate the spirit of that rule but just tries another way to get into work again.
But different people have different values.

[ASQ]

Thanks everyone for your replies. They have been very helpful. I also just read Steve's article "Judge Not" and that's been extremely helpful in getting me to a place of peace with this situation. Not entirely comfortable yet, but, hey, personal development is a journey and I'm on the right path now. Thanks very much.