Equality for Men and Women

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Angela

Erki, I'm sorry, I peeked back a few posts to see if you were referring to a previous post, but I didn't go back that far! I am sorry I didn't connect with you better.

It's all OK. Peace!

Originally Posted by Angela

I thought you were asking more of a general question.

In a way I did. Excluding the obvious physical things like birthgiving.

Originally Posted by Angela

That guy's book lost me when he said that women shouldn't use birth control, that it's the man's responsibility.

I haven't read that book at all. But birth control being man's responsibility sounds pretty weird indeed. Shouldn't the responsibility be equal?

[Natsu]

Originally Posted by stephencp

"
Why? It is unfortunately that political correctness has made it so. Men and women are different. From a Jungian/Myers-Briggs perspective, 2/3 of men are "thinkers" and 2/3 of women are "feelers", hence a basis for a stereotypical definition of women as being "lovers" and the basis for the Mars/Venus stuff.

Forgive my expression, but...

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Sorry for stating it that way, but that was my first impression. Now, to the logical explanation: Men can feel as much as women, and can be driven by their feelings as much as women. The main difference between men and women is drive: men have higher drive: testosterone gives them greater impulse. That's why men haven given to mankind more geniuses and more idiots; more saints and more criminals. It doesn't mean, of course, that any gender is better or worse. It's just that men have more impulse. If a man is aggressively lustful or angry, that's as much "feeling" as a woman who is aggressively protective or her children. People in lower levels of consciousness let themselves be guided by their emotions, BOTH men and women. People in higher levels of consciousness are more reasonable. Just because men and women feel differently, that doesn't make men "thinkers" and women "feelers". Not a bit.

[Natsu]

Originally Posted by Radical

Typical woman response.

They get so defensive when someone tells them of their true nature, even if there is a great deal of empirical evidence.

Empirical evidence? The one you choose, I suppose. I am willing to do military service and lift my own weights. If women in your country don't want their responsibility, just deal with such an injustice and make them to go to the army or do whatever they don't want to do but should. If the women surrounding YOU don't act properly, just protest. Don't put us all in the same sack, because you'll be wrong.

Women cannot want to be told everything, for a very simple reason. No one is so perfect that is always right, and no one is so stupid that is always wrong. If the man always takes the lead, he'll make bad decisions some day, no matter how clever he is. The best solution is to discuss things properly and logically, with pros and cons among the two, and arrive together to a reasonable conclusion. One of them (whoever) ordering the other means using two eyes and one brain where you could have four eyes and two brains. It's a waste of human resources.

When you talk that way I suppose you are talking about women you know. If women you know don't want to accept their share of responsibility, they should.

Originally Posted by andrew

In government etc, equality is mostly for opportunities. I see a lot of the feminists, clamour for equality, when they actually want special treatment. Same with minorities. Even here in california, where the minority is the majority, they still get special treatment. I don't see caucasian grants or loans, do you? Special white male scholorships? No, heaven forbid.

That's a political problem, not about the equality of human's beings potential. I agree that political activists abuse the majorities and men to get votes, and to look more "advanced" and "progressive". They should be stopped as soon as possible. An injustice playing in my favour is still an injustice, and will only gain me ill will. I can't force men to respect me. I will only be able to gain their respect. Injustice won't grant me that, so in fact even if it looks like favourable to me, it is doing me harm.

So, divorce laws and "affirmative action" should be changed so that they are egalitarian. Which they are not.

Originally Posted by Imaginativeone

I've worked in a place for 14 years where all the positions of leadership are filled by women. Only 10% of the people who work there are men. A women will cut your throat (or press the nuke button) as quickly and easily as a man. I've seen it many times.

Alas, that's true. Women can be as good as men, but they can be just as bad. No worse, no better. The potential is there in everyone.

As Ayn Rand said: "A genius is a genius irrespective of the number of geniuses in his native collective. An idiot is an idiot irrespective of the same".

[Natsu]

Originally Posted by dcaldwell

For two decades, at least, the social focus has been honed on what women want, how much they can achieve comparative to men, how women's skills can be improved, how they can break away from the male sphere of influence. The phrase "be a man" is tossed around as verbal ammunition, yet no one can define exactly what that means. There is nothing left to hunt except the Friday paycheck, nothing to protect against except creditors, and no initiation into adulthood. That's a gradually depressing state few want to live, yet many men have been relegated to exactly that role.

Where the cultural role of females has greatly evolved, the equal evolution of male purpose has stunted and we experience the social imbalance everywhere. Maryelyn, your comment of man's "I'm the boss, or I'm outta here" is a perfect reactionary example of feeling frustrated (not threatened), yet unable to express the core intent of their feelings because no one taught them how (or even that it's perfectly "male") to express it. I wholeheartedly support any attempt to "guide" young men along a path of self-discovery and purpose, in a way that doesn't hinder their female counterpart's "progress", yet helps him feel wanting and appreciated for their unique contributions.

If the problem is that boys aren't properly educated, that's true. Because we live in a civilized society and we hate aggresivity and war, boys and men don't have a way to let their energy out. I don't mean it in an offensive manner: I think men are naturally more aggresive, they have more drive. They should be taught to channel their aggresivity and drive, not to be ashamed of it. Men feel a little bit out in nowadays society, but that's because no one has taught them to use their aggresivity and inner impulse as a force. They feel frustrated instead, that's true. But if society needs to help people understand and control their emotions to their advantage, and not their frustration, that's not a question of who's better or who's a thinker. Both men and women have feelings, though they are generally of a different nature. Teach people to understand them and use them as fuel, and people will become better. Teach them that those feelings have no place in society, and you'll get many frustrated people.

But please, don't say women are "feelers" and men "thinkers". All of us feel: some can use our feelings to understand ourselves and become better. Others let their feelings lead their lives, and I'm afraid that problem happens to both genders equally.

[Maguru]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Best laugh in years

Originally Posted by Radical

Because women secretly want that. They secretly desire to be housewives and to take care of their husbands. Even if they choose to have a career and be independent, they secretly desire for a man to tell them what to do. I believe women like playing the supportive role, and they want the men to be leaders.

Women fought for equality, but they don't really want equality. They say they do, but what they mean is that they want the same opportunities as men, however they don't want the responsibility and still want men to do everything. Just my humble opinion.

[dcaldwell]

Originally Posted by Natsu

If the problem is that boys aren't properly educated, that's true. Because we live in a civilized society and we hate aggresivity and war, boys and men don't have a way to let their energy out.

Personally, I don't think anyone educated in a public school is properly educated anymore. But that's beside the point here. A society that hates aggresivity and war? If we are to judge based on action and not merely talk, this society is very misaligned.

Originally Posted by Natsu

They should be taught to channel their aggresivity and drive, not to be ashamed of it. Men feel a little bit out in nowadays society, but that's because no one has taught them to use their aggresivity and inner impulse as a force. They feel frustrated instead, that's true. But if society needs to help people understand and control their emotions to their advantage, and not their frustration, that's not a question of who's better or who's a thinker. Both men and women have feelings, though they are generally of a different nature. Teach people to understand them and use them as fuel, and people will become better. Teach them that those feelings have no place in society, and you'll get many frustrated people.

Exactly.

A few years ago I was invited to a small get-together of (older) men who informally met once a month or so and talked about their explorations in spirituality, self realization, community service, etc., outside the confines of religion. While these men were very intelligent, you could feel a balanced amount of emotional openness and compassion for helping one another navigate life. In the end I found the experience amazing, and was sad the evening had to end.

Originally Posted by Natsu

But please, don't say women are "feelers" and men "thinkers". All of us feel: some can use our feelings to understand ourselves and become better. Others let their feelings lead their lives, and I'm afraid that problem happens to both genders equally.

I agree, it's irresponsible to make such sweeping generalizations; however, that doesn't mean we should swing to an extreme and promote some form of affirmative action. The more we focus upon and force equality, the worse it's going to get.

[Michael Chui]

Equality can only come about through education. Not necessarily formal education. But education nonetheless.