What value do artists provide, or, explaining yourself to family...

[ferngully]

I am unemployed and I feel my purpose is to take this chance to start an artistic business. Problem is, my parents always wanted me to get a "real" job and since my unemployment have started wondering why I'm not breaking my back looking for "real" work instead of "doing that (expletive)... nobody makes money with that, doing what you want landed you on unemployment, you should take good advice". They have helped me financially so I also feel responsible to them.

I can't even articulate the value of art to them. My relatives view movies,art, literature as "fake", "pointless", "not the real world". And when I sit down to do work that's what I hear in my head. How can I do this when there are bills to pay? I like to do it but who cares?

Anyone have any suggestions? I'd appreciate it. I want to take control of my own life.

[dwixi]

Originally Posted by ferngully

I am unemployed and I feel my purpose is to take this chance to start an artistic business. Problem is, my parents always wanted me to get a "real" job and since my unemployment have started wondering why I'm not breaking my back looking for "real" work instead of "doing that (expletive)... nobody makes money with that, doing what you want landed you on unemployment, you should take good advice". They have helped me financially so I also feel responsible to them.

I can't even articulate the value of art to them. My relatives view movies,art, literature as "fake", "pointless", "not the real world". And when I sit down to do work that's what I hear in my head. How can I do this when there are bills to pay? I like to do it but who cares?

Anyone have any suggestions? I'd appreciate it. I want to take control of my own life.

Make your actions teach them the value of art... They dont belive there is value in art because your not RECEIVING any value from art!
Maby if you actuly do it and start making money from it you wouldnt have this problem... on two levles..
1. you would be able to move out
2. They would see the value it is creating

[Xanafax]

First of all don't define yourself in terms of other people.

Did you ask for your parents money? Or was it given to you?

If it was given do not feel guilty. If it was asked for, consider repaying them when you have made a successful art business. No sooner, for money wrought from sadness, greed, self-deprecation is tainted, not in any physical way, but you will always know it, and deep down, so will they.

Of course Art is hard to sell, it's art! But that shouldn't discourage you, it should inspire you, you should consider it a worthy challenge to you. Pity those who think what a person does, and what a person is are separate affairs. Not so! They should be linked, they should be intertwined. When you produce value that reflects your true purpose and being - your soul-sword / Power as it where - then that value - in this case, your art - will be recognised for what it is. A reflection of a persons soul.

You might be a little disappointed that I haven't included any "practical" advice, well nothing is practical in life. It looks good theoretically, but to succeed you have to intuit 90% of the time.

Good Luck!

[ferngully]

Thanks for the replies

I think my biggest challenge at this point is to stop the negative tape playing in my head that I got from them, which is tough and I'm working on that since you're right, not doing it is only helping their point.

I didn't ask for the money or live with them, they know I need the help and it gives them the opportunity to look over my shoulder and say whatever they like. They do care, they want me to be "secure" and I can't blame them.

[ferngully]

You both helped me feel a bit better, I usually lament that my purpose wasn't to be an accountant or a neurosurgeon!

[legend]

ferngully, This is an exciting time for you.... you have the chance to really follow your heart.
1. read the book art and fear I highly recomend it to anyone who is creative in the least
2. Set some Goals for yourself... for to be a true goal it needs a timeline and action... put it down in writing and share this with your parents
3. Regrets more often then not come from the path we did not follow that we heard call our name.....
4. Play worst case scenerio.... answer this what is the worst case scenerio if.....? If you spent one month pursuing your art and failed?
If you spent one year pursuing your art and failed? If you spent two years pursuing your art and failed?... If you spent a lifetime pursuing your art and failed
5. I think you will find jobs will be waiting around every corner... today, tomorrow, next year.....
6. Your life is now

and lastly the value of art is how it affects the audiance.... show your parents your art whatever form it is in... If it affects them they will know more about the artist.... give them a reason to expect you will change the world


Good Luck
I hope to see, hear, read your art soon

Much Love

[Brutha]

Art is simply a medium. People can use the medium to say different things.

What is your message? What do you want to show the world through your art?

[ns123]

From a non-artist's perspective:

If you are living under your parent's financial support, and they are judging you and pestering you to get a job, well, you'll just have to put up with it. Or, you can get a job. Or you can get out from under their financial support.

If you had a friend in your situation, who was living under your financial support, who said he was an artist, but he needing your financial support... well, you'd probably get sick of it too and tell him to get a job.

So... how do you stop them from pestering you, judging you, and telling you what to do? Stop taking their money. Even if they offer it, since apparently they offer the money with explicit agreement that they can judge you and pester you.

Your job is to not convince them the value of art. I think it bothers you because maybe, you are not convinced of the value of art, since obviously you are not receiving any monetary value from it thus far. I would suggest two things:

1. stop taking their money - that way, they won't pester you any more
2. explore your own feelings on why you feel the need to convince them of the value of art.

Hope that helps

[sbdiane]

What kind of art?

I know lots of artists that do all kinds of art. Some of them do very well. Others struggle. They are not fabulously rich, but they are talented and can make a living and seem like happy and interesting people. Many of them do more than one kind of art, such as a musician friend who also makes things from broken dishes.

Most of them also have jobs. I know a guy who does art and works for an organic farm. Another who is an accountant and musician. Still another who paints and works with the mentally ill.

Jobs don't have to get in the way and they don't have to be full time. Sometimes they can provide avenues to spark your creativity. Or just a way to make ends meet in between the art. Doing art does not have to be all or nothing 100% art vs. job.

[Tsigane]

Ferngulley,

Just my 2 cents, but as a 40 year old that spent way too many years in 'real jobs' because of family indoctrination, I believe that artists provide infinitely more value to life on this planet than business people. The arts--painting, sculpture, music, literature, etc.--have a central commonality in the human experience. It is a commonality that is shared in a way that the mental slavery of 'making money' although shared by many can never attain the same place of beauty. It is truly sacred.

What to do when the voices repeat in your head that art is worthless? Channel the thoughts of one of your favorite artists. Did Picasso, Mark Twain, or Billy Holiday ever question the value of their art? Probably now and then but they kept doing it and you should too.

[Jay Pavlina]

Art is powerful. In a way, there is nothing more powerful than art because it is human's expressing themselves. The value is achieved when people can relate to it. If someone feels alone and they hear a beautiful song or watch a movie about someone in the same position, it can free them. It can give them the faith or power they need to change. It can help them to understand life.

I am in the same position as you. My family never understood the value of art, and I have been told to get a real job for the last 2 years. But I never have, and I'm still alive. No, I have not yet made money from my art, but I wasn't really trying. I just did what I had to to survive. Now I am finally trying to make money, and I have almost made my first dollar. That may sound pathetic, but it's not. It's amazing.

You will have a difficult time making money off of art if you do not understand its value. I recommend that you work on your beliefs about money and art, and also work on your courage, power, and authority. You must understand that what other poeple think isn't important. You must follow your heart. If you do it with faith, you cannot fail. Go for it. Whatever happens, you will grow and learn, and that is more valuable than anything else. I believe in you.

[dice]

Read anything by Robert McKee. He's one of the best educators in screenwriting, he has an entire list of students who have gone on to win oscars and emmy's. (Peter Jackson, the man behind Lord of the Rings, went to his seminars)

He spends about 10% of his book glorifying stories and screenwriters, and he speaks the truth.

I personally do not think that lawyers or doctors provide any value to me at the moment. They could disappear and my life would go on as usual. That's how some people feel about art and theatre. I have never had any health or legal issues so people like that aren't of any use to me. Some people have never thought about life or beauty, so creativity and expression aren't of any use to them. That differs according to which sector of society you belong to.

I would not take any "real job" or "real value" advice from a person who was not successful or happy with themselves. Are your parents honestly happy people, or are they living a practical - but bitter - life?

Note that lawyers are incredibly prone to suicide . You only get a certain number of years - do you want to spend that in a desk, pouring over definitions and fallacies in punctuation? Or creating something that could make people go "wow" and potentially rethink their lives?

I firmly, FIRMLY believe that input = output. ALWAYS. If you put the same amount of concentration/effort/attention to detail into your artistic endeavours as a surgeon would put into his medical ones, you'll get the same amount of respect, esteem, and the same paycheck.

The difference is pressure. Stakes. If a surgeon fails, people die. If an artist fails...what really happens? Some professions are easier to make excuses for. Others - lawyers, doctors - leave no room for mercy.

The hardest part of being an artist is finding stakes like that to push you further, I find. The consequences of mistakes in art aren't dire enough to push the majority far enough to provide any value.

Put yourself somewhere where you'll be stimulated, New York or L.A. Just long enough to harden up. It's what I'm trying next. We'll see how it goes.

[Marth]

I can't even articulate the value of art to them. My relatives view movies,art, literature as "fake", "pointless", "not the real world". And when I sit down to do work that's what I hear in my head. How can I do this when there are bills to pay? I like to do it but who cares?

Same thing here in my field. It's ridiculous how much say your environment has over your life in the world, just follow what you think is right

[Andrew Gubb]

If you want to take control of your own life, then stop listening to your parents. They're trying to manipulate you through shame. Don't play that game. Conditional love is not love.

Don't explain. They'll never get it. They don't want to get it. They want you to support their mental structures which say "everyone should be joyless and work a 9-5". Don't give up one iota more of energy in helping them in that game of suffering.

[lifetimelearner]

think of it this way

In time of war who do we send to cheer up the troops?
accountants ?
no entertainers /artists

and what did hitler do to try break the spirits of those he found offensive
he took away their art
(well he did more than that but that was one of the many things he did )

art is important
no matter what your parents say


could you get a job in an art museum or movie theater or somewhere where earning a little income would be less painful
and then work on your projects as well ?

[Stallion]

Look, all of this advice to stop listening to your parents is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. You have to listen to everyone and then make up a decision for yourself. Your parents opinion btw should be held in higher esteem than anyone on this forum including myself because they probably care about your future way more than anyone on an online forum does.

I think the problem is that you're looking at this from an all or nothing mindset. Either you get a "real job" and be "secure" (w/e that means) or you take a risk in the art world where the future is uncertain. My suggestion is to go for a more realistic route. Obviously giving up your passion is a bad idea, but not being able to pay the bills, put food on the table, or afford health/dental insurance is bad as well.

Go For both. Look, I don't care what kind of b.s. mantra people will throw at you, the fact is the world can be an unforgiving place and you have to take care of your basic needs in order to support "higher" pursuits. Regardless of what everyone here may tell you: just look at the statistics. Art does not usually make people a living. Not while they're alive, anyway. Yes, it is possible to make it. But look at the odds. Why would you put all your chips on a game where the odds are completely against you?

A better bet would be to get a "real" job to support yourself and THEN engage in you're artistic pursuit at the same time. So let's say you work from 9-5. You have evenings and weekends to work on your art. That way, you get the best of both worlds. You can pay the bills and engage in your passion. If you don't make any money from art, it won't matter because you love doing it anyway AND you can support yourself through your day job. You'll be happy, you're parents will be at ease....everybody wins.

[Creative]

This doesn't have to be a choice between your passion and paying the bills! There are many options- you could train to become an art teacher, become an arts therapist or even get any job to pay for immediate bills so you don't feel guilty.

Don't give up your art- I know of many who trained in the arts, and now teach and make their own art. It is your life so it is important you find your own purpose. Perhaps you could research into arts grants/ scholarships and set up your own exhibition? This would be a good way of educating your family into how art does have a special place in life. And they will also be very impressed when you sell something, I went through this myself neing the only creative graduate in the family. It took a long time to convince certain family members that I was doing a worthwhile degree. When they all came to the private view of my exhibition it all changed to a whole more positive vibe. Things can work out wonderfully, it is your responsiblity to find the way to do it. Good luck!

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Art is simply a medium. People can use the medium to say different things.

What is your message? What do you want to show the world through your art?

exactly !
you share yourself through your art

[Foresta Gump]

Ferngully

"I want to take control of my own life" these are your words, my advice to you is to listen to yourself.

Take the bull by the horns and steer your own life, it is your life, not your parents, so make yourself happy and follow your own lead.

You will be respected in the end when you've achieved by following your own heart, your parents lived their own lives, they should not oppose or deny you of wanting to live your life your way, they are wrong to impose their ideals upon you. It is your right to live your life the way you decide.

Regardless of what your parents think. It is already known that parents want the best for their kids, well the best for their kids, is to let them decide what's best for them.

Parents are selfish to expect from their children to fulfill their dreams, when they have their own dreams to fulfill. They should respect their children enough to accept their choices, regardless of their opposition.

We learn through our experiences, we gain insight as we travel our own path, some of us create our own roads then lead others where contentment was found.

Parents want the best for their children, they just don't realize, they already instilled their ideals upon them in the raising of them. The children grow up with the brain development of parent control, brain wash, influence enough to either accept their parents style or reject it and persue with their own lives when they decide it is time to leave home. The child is ready at an early age to leave home when he is mentally ready to make his own decisions, he knows when he is mentally ready, and he should do so.

Foresta Gump
the original one
Canada

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Andrew Gubb

If you want to take control of your own life, then stop listening to your parents. They're trying to manipulate you through shame. Don't play that game. Conditional love is not love.

Don't explain. They'll never get it. They don't want to get it. They want you to support their mental structures which say "everyone should be joyless and work a 9-5". Don't give up one iota more of energy in helping them in that game of suffering.

This is a very bad advice, not all parents give bad advice. You should have said, to think about it and weight in the advantage and disadvantage of what information was given to you.

Parents just want what's best for you, generally.

-peace

[JAX]

Hey Ferngully,

I understand what you are going through. I left my "regualr secure job" for a life in the arts. It has been a great decision and brought me many wonderful discoveries and adventures. Ultimately you are responsible to yourself for the life you create. When all is said and done, you need to be happy with your choices and how you spend your day. Parents usually think it's their job to protect you, and they do it to the best of their ability, but that doesn't usually take into account your idea of happiness. Let them know you appreciate all they have done and continue to do. Ask them to help you create the life you really want, maybe they will.
If you need a little pick me up check out my page of inspirational quotes for the arts.
Inspirational Art Quotes

JAX
Keep us posted.

[The Synchronicity Expert]

I have always been an artist, and I've worked in a great many medias. All art comes from inside of you, it's your voice and your vision and what brings value to it in the real world is when you can translate that voice and vision into something of high perceived value.

There is no reason to be a starving artist, but you may find it useful and perhaps even necessary to work in a parallel field where you have the opportunity to express your creativity in a way that has a solid salary. I did this for many years as a graphic artist. Incidentally the median income for a graphic artist, production artist or prepress technician hovers around 45-70k/yr. Which is not a bad living working for someone else.

Certainly writers can do similar things like copywriting, ghost writing, media creation and the like.

The trick is to find a balance in the working world that you can live with until you have completed your personal voice/vision work and learned to effectively market and distribute it.

I think often of how two great men, Edison and Tesla were both inventors. Edison is more remembered quite simply because he was an equally good businessman, even though we use much of Tesla's work (AC power for instance) far more than Edison's.

I think the bigger issue here is not so much whether you pursue art as a living (or as a "starving artist" with someone footing the bill) but more that you are seeking validation from your parents. I'm not sure how old you are, but at some point between your teens and twenties, you should be coming to a point where their validation while respected is no longer necessary.

In order to ease this transition, you could imagine yourself now as an orphan. This is the archetype that feels remorse at the loss of paradise (no longer being totally cared for by your parents) and struggles with the "fairness" or lack thereof of the world. As you do this, begin to see yourself changing into the wanderer. This archetype goes out into the desert, forest, cave and seeks solitude to find his inner voice and strength. By contemplating these archetypes you can usher in the wanderer archetype and begin assimilating a greater degree of independence and self reliance which will in turn allow you to find your own way.

Best of luck.