Life as a "Player"

[adam230]

Do you think it's a bad idea to decide against ever having children or a wife? I see family life as a kind of enslavement. Why would I bury myself in the sand when I can run down the beach, swim in the ocean, and screw every bikini-clad babe I can afford?

I doubt anyone can convince me that monogamy is anything more than a modern perversion of the natural male order.

I think marriage is a disease of the male spirit and the greatest trick the ladies ever pulled.

The only reason men get married is because they don't think they'll be able to have sex out of wedlock. In modern society, where women are increasingly willing to engage in casual sex, the impetus to practice monogamy is gone, while the convention remains.

I feel sorry for all the sad, powerless men out there who scrimp and save and squabble with their wives for twenty minutes of missionary position once a week, when there are literally millions of women around the world eager to meet a man with the courage to ask for what he really wants: caveman sex.

Love for a man is love of order, and productivity, and honor, and progress. Love of family is suffocating for most men. Look at all the sad sacks shuffling around the the back of the garage with a garbage bag in their hand, reminiscing about the good old days when they didn't pay some woman to be CEO of their own life.

Freedom. That's the only joy in this life for me.

Do you think I'm a bad man? Should I feel ashamed of myself for holding these views? Is there something wrong with focusing on building a fortune to ensure that I will still be able to attract young women when I'm old and ugly and can't manage to do it for free anymore? Is there something wrong with wanting my life to be my own? Can anyone explain the logic of investing in a family? Children? Why? So they can take care of me when I'm old and dying? Sorry, I think a good high-class retirement community on a beach somewhere and a harem of Brazilian escorts could probably do a better job of keeping me happy than a swarm of ungrateful "family" members who rightfully resent me and each other.

Look at traditional societies. Who was monogamous? The peasants, that's who. Men who couldn't afford concubines or harems or multiple wives. Monogamy is unnatural, and the guilt that modern men feel at the prospect of retaining their natural right to mate freely is just as much an abomination. I wish we could all give up the hypocrisy and secrecy and misery and just admit that we'd all rather be screwing each other.

Maybe I should just move to France.

1 . . . 2 . . . 3: PDer's, OPINE!

[Lisa McGregor]

No,you're not a bad man. Neither should you be ashamed. You're entitled to your opinion. You would probably make a terrible husband though, so I would suggest that you never marry. Enjoy your life making "love" to all those bikini babes and then go home alone to your lonely, loveless life. That's sad.

Marriage or a committed relationship with the right partner(of the same or opposite sex) will give you love along with the sex and the children will give you more joy than you could possibly imagine.

L

[adam230]

I didn't say make "love" to them. I said screw them. No need for " ".

Your reply isn't very useful. I think I just offended your female sensibilities and you felt like giving me an earful. Why would you suggest I don't get married? That's so redundant. Did you read my post?

Children give YOU joy. That doesn't mean they will give ME joy. People are different. Men and women are different. You should know this.

Love fades. Admit it.

Sex in marriage? Ha!

I still can't get over that fact that you somehow thought advising me not to get married because I would make a terrible husband was not absurd given the content of my post.

Like, duh.

Lisa, you're getting the brunt of it. I'm sure you have good intentions in your world. Please don't provoke me further unless you enjoy forum fights.

Lonely life? Marriage and family the cure for loneliness? Let's ask some of the men here on the forums. Lifelong bachelorhood a lonely existence? Do you know what kind of a party you can throw when you don't give up 90% of your income to ungrateful kids and a controlling, post-feminism prison warden of a wife? Do you think men honestly feel lonely when they're dating 6 different women at a time?

Thank you for saying I'm not a bad man. It's true. I'm just an honest one who desperately wants to be happy and feels indebted to nothing and nobody.

I don't mean to offend you.

[Nathan]

you sound angry

[SomeRandomGuy]

I have been happily married for 10 years. I cannot even begin to fathom how anyone could live a life as you described and be truly satisfied. It sounds to me like a life built on meaningless sex, partying and money. If you believe that women are controlling and scheming then you have a very negative few of women. If all of the women in your life meet that description, then I suppose I can understand where your view comes from. I can assure you, however, that not all women are like that.

As for marriage and monogamy, they are not necessary. I am fully committed to my wife, and would not feel any differently without a marriage certificate. You seem to believe that if you get married (or commit) to a woman then you are trapped in a life of boring monogamous sex. The way to avoid that is not get married to a woman who fits that. Find a woman who likes the type of sex you like. Find a woman who doesn't see monogamy as a requirement for committed relationships.

Having said that, it sounds like you have made up your mind about not falling to the marriage trap that some devious woman is trying to set for you. I doubt you have a lot to worry about, because any woman would be silly to try to catch you in such a trap. I do not mean that negatively toward you, simply that any woman who knew you well enough to consider you for marriage should know that you are not interested in marriage and would not be very happy in that type of situation.

I don't think you are a bad man either. In fact, I find the honesty refreshing. If, however, you are not honest with the women you date then that would change things. I have seen many "players" be dishonest with the women they pick up and hurt a lot of them. Too many of these men seem to think it is ok to let a woman think they are interested in a relationship, rather than just sex. As long as you are not one of those men, as long as the women you are picking up know what you are after and that you have no interest in a marriage (or presumably long term committed relationship) then I think you are hurting no one but yourself with the lifestyle.

[Blueskied]

Heh heh, you are a funny bragger.
Dating 6 bikini girls and party everyday, sounds exciting.
But the bachelor's reality is more like canned food und endless handwork.

[adam230]

Not in the USA, my teutonic taunter. Laugh if you want, but I'm already getting there at a young age. See people, this is exactly what I'm talking about. He is implying that my vision is some sort of beautiful, impossible dream. Notice he didn't comment on the ethical or social considerations of making this particular lifestyle choice, only the difficulty of making it a reality. The life of a king, how could I be so arrogant? The fact of the matter is that our modern society makes the life of a king available to every man, if he will only work hard, work smart, and keep his priorities straightened out and the ladies out of his wallet.

Somerandomguy: I would never lead a woman on. It's cruel and unnecessary. There are enough freaks out there that the "sweet" girls are safe from big, bad me.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by adam230

Maybe I should just move to France.

1 . . . 2 . . . 3: PDer's, OPINE!

Yes, that would be fine.

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by adam230

Do you think it's a bad idea to decide against ever having children or a wife?

I think that only you can make that decision, and that what feels desirable to you now, may not feel so desirable to you in ten or fifteen years. You may want to keep your options open.

Originally Posted by adam230

Freedom. That's the only joy in this life for me.

I love my freedom too, but I enjoy my children and partner enough that I'm willing to make some compromise. (Albeit, he is not my first husband, I don't believe that people have to stay in an unsatisfying marriage.)

Originally Posted by adam230

Do you think I'm a bad man? Should I feel ashamed of myself for holding these views? Is there something wrong with focusing on building a fortune to ensure that I will still be able to attract young women when I'm old and ugly and can't manage to do it for free anymore? Is there something wrong with wanting my life to be my own? Can anyone explain the logic of investing in a family? Children? Why? So they can take care of me when I'm old and dying? Sorry, I think a good high-class retirement community on a beach somewhere and a harem of Brazilian escorts could probably do a better job of keeping me happy than a swarm of ungrateful "family" members who rightfully resent me and each other.

I don't think that you are a bad man or should be ashamed if you are being honest and upfront about your intentions, however, making statements that say that marriage is a disease of the male spirit and to imply that all women are sinister tricksters, is a bit to much of a broad stroke, if you ask me. You don't need to move to France to Live and Let Live.

[CroMagna]

What you're saying makes sense. It's a tough call. I wonder the same thing sometimes. I don't know if I want marriage and kids. There's a lot to consider.

But I think your vision of life without them is too idealistic and your vision of life with them is too cynical. I also think your reasoning is a bit shallow. I'm wondering about marriage and kids, but for much more serious reasons.

There are many good reasons to get married and have kids. For one thing, men who get married are happier and live longer. You have a companion to support you in difficult times, like when your parents and siblings die, if you have fading looks, if you become impotent, if you have a mid-life crisis, if you encounter career and financial hardship, if your health is deteriorating, if there's a natural disaster, in other words, virtually everything.

How could that not be a good reason?

There are many good reasons to have kids. You get to play with small, cute, miniature people that look like you. That's obviously fun. You get to hear tiny voices call you "mommy" and "daddy" and telling you that they love you unprovoked. You get to teach them things you enjoy teaching, like reading or Spanish. You get to enjoy simpler activities you hadn't considered, like scavenger hunting or rolling a ball on the floor. You get to help them and see how your help is improving their lives.

To me the marriage one sounds very serious and the kid one sounds sappy and hallmark-cardlike.

I'm weighing my options too. I will most likely get married and not have kids. But if you're gonna weigh your options, really weigh them, don't be goofy. Don't you think life is more serious than beach blanket bimbos?

[openeyes]

I'd say keep it up for as long as you enjoy it or simply until you feel like trying something else. As long as you have fullfilling relationships, with yourself, friends, etcetera, you should be fine. If at 40, 50, or 60+ you develop an interest in settling down you'll be able to, but you never HAVE to. You have no biological clock and there is no shortage of people open to being with an interesting person of any age.

A good example of what you describe would be one of my dad's old friends, a hairstylist with his own salon making six figures, dating multiple women per night for decades. He had married once and had a kid, it didn't work out and forever afterward he made it clear to the women he was with that he wasn't open to being monogamous or getting married. Of course many women went along with it thinking they could change him, but he was honest. When he died in his early 50s from a heart attack (after ~40 years of smoking and finally trying to quit) the house that held his wake was literally packed with old friends and lovers who still cared for him. He'd lived as he wished up to the last moment, dying in his sleep after his second rendezous of the night.

[missing]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

There are many good reasons to get married and have kids. For one thing, men who get married are happier and live longer. You have a companion to support you in difficult times, like when your parents and siblings die, if you have fading looks, if you become impotent, if you have a mid-life crisis, if you encounter career and financial hardship, if your health is deteriorating, if there's a natural disaster, in other words, virtually everything.

actually, while this sounds nice in theory, statistically it's a bad strategy. Half of all marriages end up in divorce, and they are usually initiated by the woman. If you are a man and make a lot of money, better have a good pre-nup/laywer or she can kill you with alimony, though even with all precautions taken you can get burned. If you have kids she can take them from you, restrict visitation, which could be emotionally devastating (on top of merely being betrayed by your spouse) and then there's child support.

Yea I know, "if you're smart about it, find the right person, etc etc, it won't happen to you". But you just don't know. Nobody sets out on an endeavor planning to fail. I'm sure most of the 50% of marriages (or higher) ending in divorce didn't. Some even probably thought they were being "smart" about it. It's funny, but if we had the failure rate of marriage with any other aspect of society, we'd probably stop it while taking an objective look to figure out WHY it's not working. It seems only recently have we even begun to take this step.

[Taikin]

The problem with hedonism is that pleasure loses its effect pretty quickly. That's why people look for something worthwhile - something that may be difficult to acquire but which also doesn't lose its value in a very short period. Such as a marriage. Even if these days only around half of them live up to that standard.

[adam230]

These posts are great.

I will take the life of your father's friend, minus the hairstyling and the first marriage.

Maybe have a kid with one of my girlfriends if one is interested, see how that goes.

Yes? No?

[Taikin]

Maybe have a kid with one of my girlfriends if one is interested, see how that goes.

Yes? No?

Lol. Seriously, do you think you might be just a tad misogynistic?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by missing

actually, while this sounds nice in theory, statistically it's a bad strategy. Half of all marriages end up in divorce, and they are usually initiated by the woman. If you are a man and make a lot of money, better have a good pre-nup/laywer or she can kill you with alimony, though even with all precautions taken you can get burned. If you have kids she can take them from you, restrict visitation, which could be emotionally devastating (on top of merely being betrayed by your spouse) and then there's child support.

Yea I know, "if you're smart about it, find the right person, etc etc, it won't happen to you". But you just don't know. Nobody sets out on an endeavor planning to fail. I'm sure most of the 50% of marriages (or higher) ending in divorce didn't. Some even probably thought they were being "smart" about it. It's funny, but if we had the failure rate of marriage with any other aspect of society, we'd probably stop it while taking an objective look to figure out WHY it's not working. It seems only recently have we even begun to take this step.

You are right, this is a good reason to take an objective look at why so many marriages fail. To me it is not an indicator that marriage itself is the problem, rather the people entering into these failed marriages. I think that many people get married for the wrong reasons, so set themselves up for failure.

[garentee]

The last time I went on a womanizing tear, at the end of it I felt like I sat down for a meal and all I got was a snack. Sounds to me like you do not care to connect with anyone.. that is all fine and well until you get into a predicament where you need some support .. just make some connections along the way and you will be fine.

[Lisa McGregor]

e just a tad misogynistic?

Yes, I think so too. Stay away from Germaine Greer.
L

[Plato]

This thread smells like Hitler himself just farted.

Adam -- run! Run for your life e-life! One wrong move from here and it's game over!

[striving4peace]

Originally Posted by Plato

This thread smells like Hitler himself just farted.

Adam -- run! Run for your life e-life! One wrong move from here and it's game over!

LOL! that made me laugh !

[missing]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

You are right, this is a good reason to take an objective look at why so many marriages fail. To me it is not an indicator that marriage itself is the problem, rather the people entering into these failed marriages. I think that many people get married for the wrong reasons, so set themselves up for failure.

I don't know if it's marriage, or the people, but clearly something is amiss on a broader cultural scale. A lot of questions need to be raised, none of which I have a solid answer for. For example, should one get married without also planning to have kids? You have tax benefits, and cultural acceptance. But at the same time you are allowing state intrusion into your personal affairs. That's just one thing, there are a bunch others. I also wonder if marriage is the right thing for most people. People get married for the "wrong reasons" but what are the right ones? And what if they change as people grow apart? Then what? Lots of questions.

Personally I think marriage is dead. It's simply incompatible with our current society. We will try to keep it alive in spite of this, and divorce rates will continue to climb. Paradoxically, our birth rates will fall (aside from immigrants, especially latinos). I really see no reason to get married unless you are planning on having kids, and I believe fewer people will be making that choice in the future. For many, it won't even be a choice. Finances will make it impractical/impossible. If people aren't going to have children, I don't think marriage can survive as a cultural force.

But it's a complex topic probably deserving it's own thread.

[funchy]

You sound really angry. I am not saying this to be mean or rude, but did you come from a home where your parents divorced or were miserable? Or did you get your heart torn out badly and haven't yet recovered?

Marriage is NOT a prison. Your sex life, respect, and dignity don't have to be crushed into nothingness in marriage. If a marriage is like that, something is terribly wrong.

You could also argue against all monogamy, since marriage is just a form of long-term monogamy, correct? Then what's the point of dating anyone? Why bother treating women for anything but sex? Which raises an issue of what you think of those of the opposite sex and how little you seem to respect them.

As most people get older, they realize that it's a lot of work to keep seeking out women in order to have company each night. It's also lonely to not have anyone to talk to, except for the short conversations with drunk girls at the clubs. It becomes comforting to know that you have companionship, fun, and nookie waiting for you each night.

There's nothing wrong with being single. However, IMO, there is something wrong when all women & relationships are seen in terms of "women tricking men" and "perversion of natural order". Is that a healthy outlook?

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Taikin

Lol. Seriously, do you think you might be just a tad misogynistic?

Seriously, do you think that misogyny is funny? I don't think we would be laughing if he were a tad prejudiced. He is not a misogynist. He doesn't see women as b's and h's.

[NewPath]

Originally Posted by adam230

Do you think it's a bad idea to decide against ever having children or a wife? I see family life as a kind of enslavement. Why would I bury myself in the sand when I can run down the beach, swim in the ocean, and screw every bikini-clad babe I can afford?

if that's how you view life & marriage then no one should try and convince you otherwise.

Originally Posted by adam230

I doubt anyone can convince me that monogamy is anything more than a modern perversion of the natural male order.

you're pretty entrenched in your narrow view on life. no reason to convince you otherwise.

Originally Posted by adam230

I think marriage is a disease of the male spirit and the greatest trick the ladies ever pulled.

you're not the first one to come up with bad theories based on the inflated importance applied to one's own view on life.

Originally Posted by adam230

The only reason men get married is because they don't think they'll be able to have sex out of wedlock. In modern society, where women are increasingly willing to engage in casual sex, the impetus to practice monogamy is gone, while the convention remains.

I feel sorry for all the sad, powerless men out there who scrimp and save and squabble with their wives for twenty minutes of missionary position once a week, when there are literally millions of women around the world eager to meet a man with the courage to ask for what he really wants: caveman sex.

this may be some men, but it's a horribly inaccurate generalization. caveman sex.... got tired of that at about age 22. Wasn't quite enough for me.

Your way of life is fine if that's what you enjoy, but your post comes off as very narrow minded and very simplistic. Too much thinking about cavemen sex maybe.

so you have some context, I'm a 27/m. did the travelling/pickup thing for a few years after high school. The excitement of that diminished with each year. Currently engaged & find the thought of random sex with another woman completely uninteresting.

I am not saying this is the way to go, or what happens as you get older. I am only saying this is how it went for me, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[velvet1]

To me you sound like you're empty inside. The way you express yourself is like one of those people "I don't care about anything", I know they're lying to themselves deep inside.

It all sounds wonderful now, but then what?
Tell me what happens when you stop living the players life? I mean you got to have plans, it is not going to last forever. Once you grow old, all the beautiful ladies will disappear unless you have the cash.

[adam230]

I'm not empty inside. And for all you people accusing me of being a misogynist, you should know that I actually love women. Not only that, but I think they're innately more capable and intelligent than men in most ways, which is why I don't want one running my life for me. Men are more powerful, but that is just a function of their biological advantage (much less at stake sexually), but they give up that power as soon as they surrender their sovereignty to the state through marriage.

And someone said I can't get laid when I'm old unless I'm rich. Der. Of course. Did you even read my original posts?

Being right feels like warm puppies in my heart.

[Matt Willard]

Well, whatever you choose to believe, in my experience it's usually better to share that in a less confrontational matter. Are you here to get people to think or just piss them off because you feel the need to defend your viewpoint? Course, pissing people off can be integral to change sometimes, but that's done with some sort of worthwhile intent, at least.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by adam230

you should know that I actually love women. Not only that, but I think they're innately more capable and intelligent than men in most ways, which is why I don't want one running my life for me.

But why would one run your life for you?

Maybe the problem isn't the woman but your fear you can't create boundaries or inspire the respect to keep the relationship balanced and satisfying?

Men are more powerful, but that is just a function of their biological advantage (much less at stake sexually), but they give up that power as soon as they surrender their sovereignty to the state through marriage.

Powerful how?

I think one thing you're forgetting is that the woman also gives up a lot of freedom and control when marrying. The monogamous women are also obligated to be considerate, caring, and loving to the man. Women work just as hard as the men do in the relationship.

I feel sad to hear you think women are so selfish and controlling. As a woman, I don't believe this to be true about most women.

Being right feels like warm puppies in my heart.

Telling yourself you're right make you feel warm and fuzzy. But that doesn't make these ideas in your best interest long term.

[Starman]

Adam230:

Allow me to cut out the fat from your dissertation so I can understand your point.

You want to order your entire life around meaningless sex, is this right? You also want to free yourself of all meaningful commitments and responsibilities, or in other words, eliminate any value your life might have to anyone else (except as a sex slave).

If this is correct, you should look for a magic lamp with a genie inside, and ask the genie to turn you into a giant plastic dildo.

*Starman

[Eisho]

Originally Posted by adam230

Do you think it's a bad idea to decide against ever having children or a wife? I see family life as a kind of enslavement. Why would I bury myself in the sand when I can run down the beach, swim in the ocean, and screw every bikini-clad babe I can afford?

I doubt anyone can convince me that monogamy is anything more than a modern perversion of the natural male order.

I think marriage is a disease of the male spirit and the greatest trick the ladies ever pulled.

The only reason men get married is because they don't think they'll be able to have sex out of wedlock. In modern society, where women are increasingly willing to engage in casual sex, the impetus to practice monogamy is gone, while the convention remains.

I feel sorry for all the sad, powerless men out there who scrimp and save and squabble with their wives for twenty minutes of missionary position once a week, when there are literally millions of women around the world eager to meet a man with the courage to ask for what he really wants: caveman sex.

Love for a man is love of order, and productivity, and honor, and progress. Love of family is suffocating for most men. Look at all the sad sacks shuffling around the the back of the garage with a garbage bag in their hand, reminiscing about the good old days when they didn't pay some woman to be CEO of their own life.

Freedom. That's the only joy in this life for me.

Do you think I'm a bad man? Should I feel ashamed of myself for holding these views? Is there something wrong with focusing on building a fortune to ensure that I will still be able to attract young women when I'm old and ugly and can't manage to do it for free anymore? Is there something wrong with wanting my life to be my own? Can anyone explain the logic of investing in a family? Children? Why? So they can take care of me when I'm old and dying? Sorry, I think a good high-class retirement community on a beach somewhere and a harem of Brazilian escorts could probably do a better job of keeping me happy than a swarm of ungrateful "family" members who rightfully resent me and each other.

Look at traditional societies. Who was monogamous? The peasants, that's who. Men who couldn't afford concubines or harems or multiple wives. Monogamy is unnatural, and the guilt that modern men feel at the prospect of retaining their natural right to mate freely is just as much an abomination. I wish we could all give up the hypocrisy and secrecy and misery and just admit that we'd all rather be screwing each other.

Maybe I should just move to France.

1 . . . 2 . . . 3: PDer's, OPINE!

If you are still young then have a good time and enjoy yourself. I did. But priorities change as you get older so I don't recommend you make any drastic decisions now about how you think you will be spending the rest of your life. Casual sex gets boring eventually. And while girls may be more prepared to engage in it than they were 50 years ago there are very few that I have ever met who prefer it to having a regular boyfriend / husband.

So have a good time but I recommend you try to avoid deciding the rest of your life today.

Cheers,

Eisho