Should I quit graduate school?

[stcardsfan]

Hey all,

I have a very important decision to make.

I am 23 years old and in my second year of graduate school (a two-year criminology M.A. program) at a school in Iowa (yes, Iowa). I have known since the beginning of this program that I am not on the right path. I do not want to be an academic or a professor; but this is where I am. After graduating with by B.A., I took the path of least resistance. I applied for and was offered a full assistantship to enter into my school's brand new criminology graduate program, and as a 22 year-old who was unsure what to do with his life, the opportunity to go to school for free AND put off the real world seemed like a no-brainer at the time. It was the easy choice and I took it. I stupidly put off questioning what exactly I would do with the degree (e.g., ‘Well, maybe I’ll go on and get my Ph.D’, ‘Maybe I’ll teach at a community college, maybe this, maybe that, etc).

Now that I am in my third semester and nearing the finish line, I am feeling very frustrated. I feel pressured by the graduate coordinator to finish the degree, but I know this is not what I want to do with my life. Am I passionate about criminology? No. Do I think this degree will help me to achieve a career I want? Not really. However, I am single, unattached, and I have yet to impregnate any female. This should be the perfect time to finish a graduate program, right?

I know I can finish the program if I choose to (i.e., write the thesis), but many of the job possibilities that exist (e.g., continuing on for a PhD, being a criminologist/researcher, program evaluator, policy analyst) would have me investing in razorblades very quickly. I wasn’t sure what I was getting myself into when I first started, but I don’t believe this is a mistake that can’t be fixed.

Am I crazy to quit this close to the finish line? I have so many other things I want to try in life (e.g., teach English abroad, travel, be a DJ, record music) and a master’s degree in criminology will not help me with those life goals. In my heart I know I need to quit and create my own path, but I do not currently have a 'Plan B' to fall back on. Is it wise to quit without an immediate Plan B? I feel I am delaying living my life just to have a piece of paper that I might not even use.

I have been talking to fellow graduate students, friends, and professors regarding this but also thought it would be helpful to put it on this board for some objective advice. I also want to mention that my parents will be supporting my decision either way. I am very lucky for that.

Let me know if anything is unclear or needs to be clarified. Thanks a lot guys.

[yossarian]

Am I crazy to quit this close to the finish line?

Yeah. Finish and then you'll have earned the right to slack off for years. Quit and it will nag at you down the road.

Tough it out. Look forward to the day you are finished. Delayed gratification makes the eventual gratification more satisfying.

[Erin Pavlina]

I'm going to respond because I was in this situation at age 23.

I had my BA in Psychology and I was getting a Master's in Human Factors Engineering. After finishing all my classes, all I had left was the thesis. I decided to do something big. In fact, my professor told me it was more like a dissertation than a thesis but I liked the challenge.

But I started to falter because I had decided I didn't want to go into the field, so shoudl I finish the degree or not? All I had to do was write the thesis.

I quit the program. And for many years that seemed like it was the right thing to do.

But now I'm 39 and I wish I had finished the thesis and gotten the Master's degree. I should have simplified my thesis and just got it done. Not because I wanted the degree in Human Factor's Engineering but because there were opportunities in my life where having a Master's degree would have made a difference. And getting a PhD in Psychology would have been cool too.

In hindsight, I should have finished because I was so close to the end. If I had less than 2 semesters to go, I would finish. The master's will open many doors, and if you go on your journey through traveling and Dj'ing and then decide you want to settle down or settle into something, at least the Master's part will be over and you'll have something to fall back on.

I say, get the degree, go travel and do your thing, and while you're doing that, decide what you really want to do with your life. Maybe you'll come back to Criminology and maybe you'll find an interesting way of using that degree that is more in alignment with who you are. Just one person's opinion from someone who has been in your shoes.

The choice is obviously yours

[WannabeCP]

hey man, i'm in pretty much the same predicament at the same point in life. i don't know how valuable my opinion is because i don't know what to do myself yet. but, i'm leaning towards leaving ASAP, because I value my health and happiness more than the piece of paper i really have no use for.

having said that, i think i would look at differently if i were as close to the finish line as you, or if i had as much confidence about being able to do it while keeping my sanity as you seem to. i'm in the first quarter of my first year in a PhD program. i'd have 5 more quarters (a year and a half) before even getting my masters. while i say it'd be a piece of paper i really have no use for, that's not entirely true. while it wouldn't be directly useful to the career i want to lay out for myself, i know that it would at least be a foot-in-the-door to many other careers/paths. it seems that any letters after your name, whether relevant or not, can open many other doors as well as give you an edge over the competition. with the end so close in sight, i'd probably finish it just for that reason.

but, as i'm sure you know, ultimately it will have to come down to you, a decision only you can make. like you are and have been doing, i plan on getting advice from as many people as possible, then hopefully making a decision with a clear conscious knowing i've considered all possible angles.

good luck man.

[eskimo]

If I were in your position, unless one of my desired paths required an imminent decision, I'd finish out the program, especially given the fact that I'm nearing my final semester.

So many things can change within a few months time (especially at a young age) and, personally, I value a sense of accomplishment/closure even though it may not be something I may carry with me to my next endeavour.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Erin Pavlina

I quit the program. And for many years that seemed like it was the right thing to do.

But now I'm 39 and I wish I had finished the thesis and gotten the Master's degree....because there were opportunities in my life where having a Master's degree would have made a difference. And getting a PhD in Psychology would have been cool too.

In hindsight, I should have finished because I was so close to the end. If I had less than 2 semesters to go, I would finish. The master's will open many doors, and if you go on your journey through traveling and Dj'ing and then decide you want to settle down or settle into something, at least the Master's part will be over and you'll have something to fall back on.

Wow, that was surprising to read.

Erin, what kind of opportunities do you feel you'd have had or will have with a masters degree?

As you know, I'm currently in a masters program and I have the same questions about quitting it too. Although, I have 3 semesters left, not two.

[stevehjoseph]

Do you have to finish it in Iowa? The only thing there is Kevin Costner's Dead People Baseball Field isn't it? Can you finish the degree abroad? Get some of both worlds? They have criminals in places that need English teachers, right? Just a thought I had. ::shrug::

All I know is, if you decide to finish it, I'd have to imagine that you can make it better than it has been. You can just muscle through it, but you can also take less hours and start doing DJ'ing on the side. Or even if you don't think it is time to go abroad, if you say Iowa(yes Iowa) that sounds like a joke, but it also reads like a cry to get out of Iowa. That stands out to me as something worth looking into how much it impacts your decision. Sometimes it doesn't matter where you move, as long as you move. The thrill of getting new scenery even if it isn't another country can be refreshing. And if you have more than an hour's worth of classes to get through that you really don't want, but you're determined to get it finished anyway, I say get as much relief on the side as you can.

There's nothing that says that finishing your degree means finishing it by just continuing the way you have been going about it, right? I would imagine that the worse feeling is submitting to the idea that you Have to stay where you are because you Should for your Future. If you make the conscious decision to set yourself up with a degree, then maybe ask yourself if there is extra fun that you have been overlooking that could liven the experience back up. I mean you say that you knew from the start that it was wrong for you, but you went anyways. So Some part of you is pro this place, right? At some point it was your best guess at what to do. And now from this vantage point you get to choose again what seems like the best guess for you.
Personally, I'm a quitter myself. I drop anything and everything that doesn't seem like it makes any sense anymore. It surely has its drawbacks, but it does seem to work for me, because there are some things that I just can't seem to Actually quit, like developing my own television series. And I know that from how much else gladly left when I quit and never bothered me again. But there turned out to be some goals that were harder than others to actually let go of for good.

Now it doesn't sound like Criminal Sciences is going to come itching at the back of your mind begging you to take it back. But the fact that you made it through that much college suggests to me that the feeling place of having finished the college you set out to complete might. I don't know, but that's the guess I make off of what you mentioned. Because you aren't thrilled about the subject matter, but you still did Go to college. You said it was the easy choice. I'm personally a fan of easy choices; the path of least resistance has a really bad rap in my opinion. I also think you have it right when you mention that your fumble wasn't then taking time to figure out what you Did want to do with your life. When did college stop being the easy choice? Is it no longer a good place to do that pondering? Or have you done enough soul searching that the open road is calling you so strongly that it hurts you to go to class? You've got signals going on that something is going wrong, but since you are already on this path that at one point was the place that fit you the best, check in and see if it still doesn't feel right to use this experience as you intended.

Here's what I think - and keep in mind, I'm not qualified to think this, I just do, it's guess work, but we'll manage hopefully- I think that college sounds like a great place for you because that is where you are. I think it is much harder to get back into the swing of college once you leave, because I am 21 and haven't gone yet, and Man is it hard to get the ball rolling on trying to get myself in. But you are already in. So from that place where you are in, you could feasibly keep doing what you have been doing and you can use the down time you have to sink your teeth into what it is that has been secretly calling you out. You haven't mentioned how close you are to teaching English abroad or how far along in your DJ'ing or recording experience you are. Now I totally get that you have to start somewhere, but I also know the constitution Not being in school takes. People look at my collegeless life and for a while thought that I had it made. Now they seem to look at it as if I were a drifter and a loser. And part of that comes from how much clarification I had to do personally before I could really hone in on what I gave a damn about. I've got a few lame jobs, a 7 month embarrassing stay in California, and a no longer active Steve-Pavlina-wannabe-website to show for how confused and conflicted I was. And through all that time, I didn't get to say "Oh, I'm in college" when people asked me what I was doing with my life. I'm glad for the way I went. I think it suited me. I got to questioning just before I would have enrolled in College full time. But even with questioning as my full time job, it still took a long while to get even close to a sense that I had figured it out.

So what I think is, you went to college. Then you started noticing that you didn't want what the assumed path after you were done. You don't want to become what the other people earning that degree usually become. And sooner or later you caught on to your personal preference about that and it got stronger and stronger until it had a big chunk of your attention. Big enough to make you think that you had done the wrong thing after all and it was time to kick into action and remedy the situation.

But I don't think you made the wrong decision, or at least a wrong of one as I'm getting the gist of. I say if college was the path of least resistance, please consider why that was before you hone in on leaving. When things fall into place, even if they seem to be wrong for you on paper, there is usually a larger intelligence at work that fits better into your plans than most of us remember on a daily basis. And I think that if you looked for it, you'd find the answer to your question to be something other than should you stay or should you go. I'm willing to bet that if you sat with it a while, you'd run into something that none of us would even offer you as a suggestion, because none of us would have suggested you go into Criminal Studies if you don't like the area. So what made you go? What was it that said yes when they gave you that path to walk. Don't get off that path, ask why you are there. Don't lament that you should have quit sooner, find out why you didn't quit. Once you know things like that you'll have a better sense of where you are and from There it will probably seem obvious how you should proceed. Action without checking in with yourself always ends up in disaster anyway. You're flying blind if you can't tap into that place that has all the answers. You'll have a harder time hearing the explanation of why you've come the way you have if you are struggling to pull yourself in the two directions of get on with your life and stall your life to finish a degree. Questions like this are bigger than should I stay or should I go. At least in my experience.

Anyways, before I start to list even more advice that I should be the first person to listen to, I'll stop blathering on. I only blather because I care so much about this topic of what-do-I-do-as-a-young-person-in-this-day-and-age, because I am one, and I don't seem to be done thinking on it yet, heh. Very much good luck to you on this whole thing. I do hope another perspective gives you some more depth perception on your quandary.

This can be a question of a course of action for you or a question on the way that you live your life. That's the short version I guess.

)

::shrug::

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by stevehjoseph

[lots of Bruce-like words (click the blue icon to see the post)]

Woah--check it out, guys: it's like another version of me.

I'm sure you'll all readily attest that this is not necesarrily a good thing.

(That was aimed at me, Steve Joseph, not you. Those who know me will get it. Probably, heh.)

Originally Posted by stevehjoseph

Personally, I'm a quitter myself. I drop anything and everything that doesn't seem like it makes any sense anymore. It surely has its drawbacks, but it does seem to work for me, because there are some things that I just can't seem to Actually quit, like developing my own television series. And I know that from how much else gladly left when I quit and never bothered me again. But there turned out to be some goals that were harder than others to actually let go of for good.

Quitting and failing are some of the most enriching things I experience in my life.

As for those things you really want to do and just can't quit, those are the keepers in life. They hang around because they're important to you, and getting rid of them is a mistake (I'm speaking of goals--things you'd like to happen, have, and experience--not habits).

stcardsfan, I can't really tell you what to do--I'm not the authority in your life--but I can tell you what I would do.

I've been in your situation in varying degrees before, and for me, I simply can't bring myself to enter into situations where I compromise on what I really want to do--and to the degree I end up in them, either by circumstance or by unconscious or conscious choice, I don't end up there for long. It just feels so inherently wrong and I end up sabotaging myself, not because of some nasty gremlin buried within my subconscious, but simply because I'm out of alignment with what I truly desire. I've learned that it is alignment that makes results in life, not action. Alignment facilitates action. Try pushing through without alignment, and soon enough your health, your stamina--what you draw on to work--and your will to keep going on whatever path you're on will decline until you realign yourself with truth--realign yourself with you.

You need to look at what is true for you, and it might not necessarily be what you think. If you're in a place of "I'm here doing this, but I don't want to be here or doing this," you're not going to be in a good position to make an intelligence decision since all your thoughts are going to be about where you currently are, not what is true for you. You cannot see the truth--at least, not clearly--until you stop focusing so much of your gaze on where you are.

I've been where you are, energetically. I know what it feels like, and it's not something I've at all "mastered." In fact, I'm there quite frequently. I'm also fairly young (22), doing what I can to live a life that I feel is one well lived. What I've learned is that it's the path that is important, not the position. My position right now is pretty bad. Objectively most people would say it's downright awful. But, personally, I know I'm very close to a massive expansion. I've been close for a few years now, but it feels closer than ever now. And the expansion isn't just going to "happen," as many self-help books will have you believe. It's something I'll have to bring about myself, but that said, I will be doing it with the help of my alignment, not in spite of it.

If I feel terrible and feel like I'm just grinding through life, I'm not aligned, and I'm certainly not doing what I'm here to do. In your case, your decision is a bit more involved than mine since you've invested significant amounts of money. Similarly to you, I've also invested large amounts of time into what I'm doing, so I can relate there, but I can't relate to the (probably) inevitable debt you will face when you've finished with college. But you surely knew that was part of the deal when you went to college. What might be tricky is that you knew, but you didn't know what else to do, so you did it anyway.

In that case, only you can truely determine what you want to do. Look within to your heart and do what is true for you. Do what is real. This may involve you saying, "ok, finishing my masters is needed." Sometimes, in order to accept and deal with past decisions we've made--decisions that still have some apparent momentum and pull in the present (really they don't; that momentum is all created by you... you can be free if you want to)--you simply need to do what is needed. Is it ideal? No. Is it what you want to do? Probably not. But that is what the price you pay for using your power. You're free to direct your power as you like--the only caveat is that you take responsibility. This isn't the socially conditioned "you've got to be an adult and behave responsibly" sense of responsibility; rather, it's about taking a good look at reality and looking at it, looking at what decisions you've made, and saying, "ok, I may have made that decision if I could make it again, but for now, this is what I must deal with." Trying to run from what you have to deal with isn't going to help. It won't make you feel better in the long term because it's not a recipe for progress, but a recipe for denial, which ultimately creates discord between you and reality. You want to be in alignment with reality and yourself.

The way you reach that point of alignment is up to you. Perhaps your real challenge here is not the immediate one you think it is, but one of character--one of personal growth. Are you the type of person who is ready to decide what to do with his life--to say, "I shall take this path; let it be so"? Only you can know that.

As a final note, I'll mention that this isn't an all or nothing journey. You're allowed to pause on your current path and go try something else. There will be consequences, but you, and other people, can deal with them. Try to be fair and reasonable, but remember that includes being fair and reasonable to yourself.

I wish you energy and awareness on your path.

[Erin Pavlina]

Originally Posted by seeker5

Wow, that was surprising to read.

Erin, what kind of opportunities do you feel you'd have had or will have with a masters degree?

As you know, I'm currently in a masters program and I have the same questions about quitting it too. Although, I have 3 semesters left, not two.

I wrote a book many years ago about how to escape an abusive relationship. I had several agents interested in the book but all of them said it would be a hard sell because I didn't have a Master's in Psychology. That was one.

Being able to teach at the college level was enticing to me at one point in my life, but that required a Master's, in anything, which I didn't have.

Getting a phd in psychology was also enticing to me at one point but I would have had to start over and go 4 years instead of 2 to complete that so I chose not to.

[MyEyeIsOpen]

You asked one question that I think I should answer:

Is it wise to quit if I don't have a plan B?

NO!

I'm all for following your true path, but not walking isn't the same as following a different path. Instead of agonizing over whether you should quit while you have no other prospects, why don't you use that energy to generate those prospects?

[CroMagna]

Ah, quit yer bellyachin and finish up!

It's free, right? Anything free is worth considering, even pairless socks. Let alone a master's degree? In something well known and reputable?

You could also look into study abroad programs where you can travel for free while finishing up. Or hook up with people interested in DJing.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

It's free, right? Anything free is worth considering, even pairless socks.

Time is never free as there's an opportunity cost to doing anything.

Futhermore, once time is used up, you can never get it back.

[theonlyguy]

So you're spending all your time working your ass off, to write some thesis that no one will ever read, and learning some stuff that you do not care about, because you're afraid of your possible future regrets?? WHY??? Get out of the matrix now. Do what you want now. Life is too short. Yes, it's scary to have no plan. Do it anyways.

Up till now you've NEVER made your own plan for your life, you've been asleep at the wheel. You've so far taken the path that's been laid out for you and everyone else. Just go to school, go to more school, go to even more school, get a job, get married, have kids, keep working forever because you now have to be responsible and support your family, retire, get bored and go back to work, get old, die. Oh well, maybe I'll do what I really want on my SECOND chance at life...oh wait, damn-it.

[soLitude]

Wow, I realize a lot of advice has been given to you, but I feel as though I should reply as well, since this is a very relevant topic to many!

I have been struggling with the same question for months now -- I'm 1 year away from my B.A. in psychology, 21 years old and I have been pondering over an idea for 3 years, one which can help solve many of our global problems rather quickly; the problem, as I realized this past semester in trying to launch this idea. Thus, I have been torn between taking a semester to a year off of college beginning this summer to solely work on my idea, which yields far more good (and profit, although this has never been my end goal), than I could do with a degree/license in Psychology. I then realized I would need to work full time to support myself instead, which would take up an equivalent or more amount of time that I needed in the first place, to launch my idea!

Now, for the reason why I am excited to reply to this post. About 1 week ago I realized I have not had much in the way of synchronities or other spiritual messages in MONTHS! I spoke with my guide and reread some of the old sites I used to visit while spiritually active, she affirmed my suspicions that I had simply gotten too caught up with life's demands (school, namely) and I realize that I have lost the state of mind that I used to be in, when I felt so much more confident in the law, and spirituality. I asked for guidance for the first time in months, asking 2 things: for synchronities to enter my life again, and whether I should stay in school or drop out and finish what I really want to do.

My conclusion? I am going to stay in school until my B.A. at least, complete everything I've worked for, and I recommend you do the same. I woke up this morning at about 4am, couldn't get back to sleep (this is highly unusual for me), wound up on these forums looking for something interesting, (one of the few times I browsed/posted in nearly a year) and stumbled upon this very relevant & recent topic!

I don't believe I ran into this on purpose, and I hope that my experience and everyone else's advice helps you make the decision you feel is right! A friend of mine, he happened to invent the Ethernet. He told me once, "the trick is to enjoy your work." Hold tight to those words

Peace

[stcardsfan]

Hey all,

Thanks a lot for the insightful replies. I believe I have made my decision (i.e., to finish the program and continue to research traveling, DJing, etc. during the next semester). Regardless of my decision, it is nice to see both sides of the argument from an objective point of view. I hope my post has helped others who may be struggling with similar issues in their own lives.

Cheers

[Bing Wu]

Something about the advice given here really rings true for me.

I asked a question about "quitting graduate school" here back in August/September 2007. I had just started my Master's program and only had 8 months (2 semesters) till completion. I wanted to quit because I didn't see myself working as an economist, and didn't want to go on for a whole school year. I wanted out, and into real life...

At the time, the most sensible advice coming from the forum was to stick with it. I did... and I'm very happy right now that I did.

The Master's degree opens a LOT of potential doors. You may not be interested in most of them. But they're there if you ever are. Many jobs won't be available, and if you ever want to teach, a Master's is often the minimum requirement. These tend to be benefits that you only really appreciate *after* your degree.

At the time, the only way for me to think was the following. I was 21 years old. There was *plenty* of time to go to my true calling. But 8 months in grad school was eminently doable. It wouldn't be exciting, but doable. And I would definitely be more confident with the Master's degree. Plus, with scholarships and grad school funding, I was probably better off than the immediate alternative. I was able to finish - and I'm someone who, up till then, couldn't commit to watering a plant once a week.

Grad school turned out to be one of the most enjoyable and growth-filled years of my life. I wouldn't go back to do a PhD, but the Master's was very, very worthwhile. It adds credibility to my name. I can work as an economist... even if I don't want to, it's always there as an option if I need it.

[rawkerrxx]

stcardsfan,

are you happy with your decision of staying in grad school, and what did you end up doing after you got your degree?

[cacheborn]

Will getting the degree increase your potential in other ways and help you pursue your dreams? If yes, then in that case it makes sense to finish the degree, especially since you are so close. You do not have a strict dead line about pursuing your dreams. You can do that once you finish.

I remember a speech by Steve Jobs where he said that he quit collage but sat in a course in calligraphy simply because he loved it. It made no sense at that time but later helped him in designing unique fonts for Apple. His message was you connect the dots later and see how it all fitted in. But it is impossible to see hot the dots will connect in future.

Good luck.

[TonyToneTone]

No, stick with it and finish it out. You're almost at the finish line and are going to feel so good once you do complete school.

[Andreas]

Since it's been about 18 months since he last posted on this thread, I'm curious about how he's doing, too.

What decision did you end up making? And how do you feel about it?

[cacheborn]

Note to self : Check the date of the post before replying.