EVOLUTION: making sense of polarisation

[Plato]

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not talking about polarisation as a philosophical position, I'm talking about the strange fact that we fill with energy and passion when we pick one route or the other. This post is trying to understand why that happens.

Obviously when we start looking to evolution to explain phenomena in the human experience things can be pretty tricky. There are so many complications. However, there are some possibilities for how darkworking and lightworking could have evolved. Bear in mind throughout this that lightworking and darkworking are states of mind that exist and are re-inforced by circumstance. Darkworking occurs by being alone, and lightworking by being connected to everyone around you.

So, the latest concepts in evolutionary psychology suggest that we don't inherit behaviours. Although human behaviour is diverse, it's the manifestation of a naturally selected learning rule.

Given what the theory of polarisation suggests: that we achieve our maximum potential when we either work entirely for ourselves, or entirely for our group, we can explain how polarisation makes sense through evolution.

When humans were evolving into what we are now, the sizes of group we lived in varied, as did the composition to some degree. However, what we can be sure of is that it was very different to what we experience today. Groups were much smaller, and rather than spending the majority of time with people of similar age, we would spend time with the full spectrum of age groups.

Now, polarisation occurs when we consider ourselves to be totally alone, or as part of a greater whole. There is evidence to suggest that it was not uncommon for males (or less likely female), to live alone at times and fending for themselves.

Most individuals however, would be living amongst a group of people, all of whom they would know and love (like family!), and what's more it would be very clear to everyone in that group that you sink or swim together.

We have plenty of evidence that kin and group selection can favour altruistic behaviour. However, to have fixed behaviour is only good if the environment is fixed. In the right circumstances altruism can be a survival mechanism, and in other circumstance selfishness is. What if natural selection has produced a mechanism in us that allows us to be selectively altruistic or selfish, depending on circumstance? Depending on whether you were alone, or part of a tribe, the most effective behaviour would be very different.

The question now is, why do we have unpolarised people? In our large society, their are times when we feel like we are very much alone and their are also times when we feel connected with others. This conflict prevents us from finding the clarity of either being self centered, or group centered. Our behaviour is a mess of contradictions.

To polarise in modern society we have to create special conditions for ourselves to go one way or the other. To become a lightworker we have to treat even strangers as if they were part of our tribe, and as though their good was also our good. Whilst this is true, it's not directly visible like it would have been in tirbal living. Meanwhile, to become a darkworker we have to block out friends and family who give us the feeling of being part of a tribe. In this way we are no longer conflicted.

This is speculation of course, but it helps me fit polarisation into my reality. If it doesn't concur with my religion (evolutionary biology), then it seems silly to me!

[funchy]

Plato - I always enjoy your posts. You make me stop and ponder, which is a really good thing.


I am not convinced that people will choose to live in solitary. Generally speaking we are very social creatures. We also lack fur, teeth, claws, and other defensive mechanisms, so the only thing that keeps us alive is our smarts and our ability to work as a group. We *need* others, whether we like it or not.

I am still struggling to understand the lightworking vs darkworking view, so correct me if I am wrong. It seems to be defined at how one sees oneself (as part of a larger group or always acting in one's best interest). But how one sees oneself is not a function of how much social interaction one has or how lonely one might feel. In other words, one can really care about his fellow man and have others who love him, but deep down he may still feel alone, disconnected, and isolated.

[Plato]

Thanks Funchy! You are both fun and chi, and as we know, both of those things are very good.

I think you're right that how much social interaction we have isn't a function of how lonely we feel. What's important is the sense of connection. You would get that from living in a small community and knowing that everybody in it has an important part to play in the group's survival. Nowadays, people are more disposable commodities.

[wolfgang]

I would say the polarity of anybody is darkworking - everyone is self focused. The only thing that changes is the sense of self. If you regard your tribe as yourself, then your motivations are focused on the tribe as yourself. You do stuff for the self - and it could be just your own little body you are concerned with or the whole tribe "self".

I don't see any conflicts in not being polarized because everyone is already self focused (or darkworkers if you must defined this). A lightworker is just a darkworker that has an expanded sense of self. There is no such thing as a grayworker. It's all darkworker with different levels of sense of self.

And this sense of self can change moment to moment in response to whatever the environment demands and does not create any loss of motivation. If you are hungry you go eat. If you are at the tribe level and someone in the tribe is hungry you go about helping the tribe eat.

I just don't buy this being polarized is a must for being effective. What might be an issue is if you have a sense of self that is the tribe, but act like you aren't part of the tribe. Or you are only feeling what your own little body needs, while really you are so connected to a tribe that what you do effects the tribe but you don't realize that. In other words one could be operating with a sense of self that isn't accurate - and that would muck up the effectiveness of your choice in actions for the "self".

It's about sense of self and we are all darkworkers with various levels on our sense of self. imho - and certainly a different view of DW/LW terms.

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I would say the polarity of anybody is darkworking - everyone is self focused. The only thing that changes is the sense of self. If you regard your tribe as yourself, then your motivations are focused on the tribe as yourself. You do stuff for the self - and it could be just your own little body you are concerned with or the whole tribe "self".

I don't see any conflicts in not being polarized because everyone is already self focused (or darkworkers if you must defined this). A lightworker is just a darkworker that has an expanded sense of self. There is no such thing as a grayworker. It's all darkworker with different levels of sense of self.

And this sense of self can change moment to moment in response to whatever the environment demands and does not create any loss of motivation. If you are hungry you go eat. If you are at the tribe level and someone in the tribe is hungry you go about helping the tribe eat.

I just don't buy this being polarized is a must for being effective. What might be an issue is if you have a sense of self that is the tribe, but act like you aren't part of the tribe. Or you are only feeling what your own little body needs, while really you are so connected to a tribe that what you do effects the tribe but you don't realize that. In other words one could be operating with a sense of self that isn't accurate - and that would muck up the effectiveness of your choice in actions for the "self".

It's about sense of self and we are all darkworkers with various levels on our sense of self. imho - and certainly a different view of DW/LW terms.

What you described coincides a lot with Maslow's Hierarchy and I believe you could be right.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Plato

This is speculation of course, but it helps me fit polarisation into my reality. If it doesn't concur with my religion (evolutionary biology), then it seems silly to me!

Then why are you doing it?

Also, you said your religion is evolutionary biology. That means you BELIEVE in evolutionary biology. That is not necessarily rational either.

Besides you admitted this is all speculation.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

I would say the polarity of anybody is darkworking - everyone is self focused.

Haha, well yes, it's a possibility. This polarisation thing could be total tripe, but I've found that I ignite when I decide to focus entirely on myself (blocking out connections with others), or on the greater whole. That's what I'm trying to make sense of and probably not very well, but hey.

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Also, you said your religion is evolutionary biology. That means you BELIEVE in evolutionary biology. That is not necessarily rational either.

I know! It's a philosophical entanglement of the deepest significance that you've touched on, my dear CroBar. I figure I have to believe something though, and evolution is the one I've been brought up on. I've never got around to dislodging it and am not sure I can -- it's so damned convincing.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Plato

I know! It's a philosophical entanglement of the deepest significance that you've touched on, my dear CroBar. I figure I have to believe something though, and evolution is the one I've been brought up on. I've never got around to dislodging it and am not sure I can -- it's so damned convincing.

Why dislodge it my friend? Why not just allow yourself to have beliefs?
Not because you were "brought up on" them though. Atheists believe in reason and logic. They believe reason and logic are ultimately the most important thing. I personally agree with that but I think that is still a belief.

[Plato]

Ahaha, don't get me started on the basis of logic and reasoning. I've been known to go at it for a good few hours and at the end feel like a cartoon character that's been bonked on the head, with stars spinning round my head. And of course, no answers!

[m18pak]

I believe what Plato says is true. It is all about the amount of connection you feel with others; if you feel connected you will be a lightworker, and if you feel alone you will be a darkworker.

I think our life experiences shape our attitude towards people. This passage particularly rang true for me:

Meanwhile, to become a darkworker we have to block out friends and family who give us the feeling of being part of a tribe. In this way we are no longer conflicted.

I think it has a lot to do with the amount of trust you have in others, and I would theorize that trust (or mistrust) is probably learnt from your earliest interactions as a child with your parents. Trust is the basis of love, and if you don't trust people then you will be unable to love them, I think.

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by m18pak

I believe what Plato says is true. It is all about the amount of connection you feel with others; if you feel connected you will be a lightworker, and if you feel alone you will be a darkworker.

I think our life experiences shape our attitude towards people. This passage particularly rang true for me:



I think it has a lot to do with the amount of trust you have in others, and I would theorize that trust (or mistrust) is probably learnt from your earliest interactions as a child with your parents. Trust is the basis of love, and if you don't trust people then you will be unable to love them, I think.

Can't a darkworker also love others, they simply have to fit the characters a DW want in a friend.

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by ProjectX

Can't a darkworker also love others, they simply have to fit the characters a DW want in a friend.

Well, it depends on what you define as love. But I always thought of love as valuing another person's happiness above your own, so according to my definition I would say no.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by m18pak

Well, it depends on what you define as love. But I always thought of love as valuing another person's happiness above your own, so according to my definition I would say no.

To me, love is valuing another person's happiness as your own.

A darkworker doesn't love anybody but himself. Most people seem to dismiss this point as being a hypothetical way of saying a darkworker is selfish, but it really is an intense self directed emotion of love. Try polarising and you'll feel what it's like.

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by m18pak

Well, it depends on what you define as love. But I always thought of love as valuing another person's happiness above your own, so according to my definition I would say no.

For me Love is a deep appreciation for one's companionship. To strengthen that companionship the person's consciousness can be raised and that person a stronger friend and ally.
I don't know if that is a darkworker or lightworker mentality.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Plato

To me, love is valuing another person's happiness as your own.

A darkworker doesn't love anybody but himself. Most people seem to dismiss this point as being a hypothetical way of saying a darkworker is selfish, but it really is an intense self directed emotion of love. Try polarising and you'll feel what it's like.

A darkworker loves the self. If the self includes others - love of self would also be valuing another person's well being.

All is darkworking and different levels of self, with different boundaries on self.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

A darkworker loves the self. If the self includes others - love of self would also be valuing another person's well being.

All is darkworking and different levels of self, with different boundaries on self.

That's the truth, but not the whole truth.

Lightworking and darkworking are fundamentally different because darkworking involves resistance, whilst lightworking involves flow. A darkworker is alone in a big world. A lightworker is a connected part of a big world. There is nothing separate from the lightworker to compete with.

One is co-operation, one is competition.

[Leader World]

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