You cannot become more conscious as a darkworker.

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by Plato

I mean saying or doing stuff that contributes to the good feeling of the group. Like when you tell a funny joke, and everyone laughs... it feels good to know that you've improved the world that little bit. That's where a lightworker could have ego -- in their pride at how well they can serve others.

So what would a darkworker feel in that context?

Let me simplify this; Darkworkers overcome adversity and find motivation by seeing the good inside of them? Lightworkers do the same through seeing the good in the world?

[Plato]

A darkworker would only be talking to those people if he wanted something from them e.g. information, or to persuade them of something that serves his purposes, or possibly even sex.

If he achieved those things, he'd feel enthused that things were going well, and promptly move onto the next thing he has to do. When I say "has to" I mean is urgently driven to by his passion. There's always a sense of urgency about a darkworker, he's overflowing with desire to achieve his ends, and won't let anything stand in his way. The "fear" produces this.

Think last minute exam revision, but better organised

[Daniel Birdick]

Well Plato, as you know, several venerable Asian spiritual traditions and not to mention certain schools of ancient Greek thought prize inner detachment from people and personal emotions. They'd see it as the path of wisdom rather than the path to the darkside. To me, what you're talking about is more a matter of letting go of the pretense that I am more connected to people than I actually am.

[Plato]

I see where you're coming from Daniel, but the same materialist arguments, if followed far enough would say that you're just a bundle of cells and these supposed experiences you're having are just neurons firing in a particular way.

But no, you want to take care of yourself because your subjective human experience allows you to value feeling good. You value your life. If you try lightworking you might find the feeling of joy produced from connecting with others can be as objective and real as your desire to avoid pain. I had to consciously try lightworking to "get this" because, like you, I thought darkworking was logical from a materialistic perspective. However, a materialistic perspective can only lead to nihilism and inability to value things.

If it helps you to overcome emotional connections on your path to darkworking, that's great, but I prefer to think of choosing to value my individual goods, like power and control rather than shared goods, like love and creation. Darkworker and lightworker values are real, we have to choose which set we value highest.

[Daniel Birdick]

Originally Posted by Plato

I see where you're coming from Daniel, but the same materialist arguments, if followed far enough would say that you're just a bundle of cells and these supposed experiences you're having are just neurons firing in a particular way.

But no, you want to take care of yourself because your subjective human experience allows you to value feeling good. You value your life. If you try lightworking you might find the feeling of joy produced from connecting with others can be as objective and real as your desire to avoid pain. I had to consciously try lightworking to "get this" because, like you, I thought darkworking was logical from a materialistic perspective. However, a materialistic perspective can only lead to nihilism and inability to value things.

If it helps you to overcome emotional connections on your path to darkworking, that's great, but I prefer to think of choosing to value my individual goods, like power and control rather than shared goods, like love and creation. Darkworker and lightworker values are real, we have to choose which set we value highest.

As far as I can see, there aren't any objective values or standards. We choose what to value and what not to. And that is more than cool with me!

[Daniel Birdick]

Hey Plato, thanks man. You’ve given me a ton of food for thought. I also figure that posting about this has been helpful for you too since you’re thinking through which polarity you’re going to choose as well.

One more thing I want to put out there. Fear. I know a lot about psychological and/or existential fear. I freely admit to being a coward. I’ve boxed myself in, so to speak, by ever my present fear. Like I said earlier, today I saw very clearly how fear of emotional and physical pain has been the dominant factor coloring all of my decisions. This is probably why the darkworker path seems so right to me. Piggy backing on what you said earlier about fighting fear, I’m thinking that a good course of action for me right now is to move into the very areas that spark my fear, to deliberately expose myself to pain. I’m also thinking that consciously using the pain as a spur to growth is the smart way to “fight” my fear. Any thoughts?

This is not going to be mere theory for me. I won't let it be. I'm breaking out of the cage I've built for myself, one way or the other. I created my prison out of ignorance and self deception. That's good news for me, because that means that if I built it, I can destroy it!

[Daniel Birdick]

Originally Posted by Daniel Birdick

Hey Plato, thanks man. You’ve given me a ton of food for thought. I also figure that posting about this has been helpful for you too since you’re thinking through which polarity you’re going to choose as well.

One more thing I want to put out there. Fear. I know a lot about psychological and/or existential fear. I freely admit to being a coward. I’ve boxed myself in, so to speak, by ever my present fear. Like I said earlier, today I saw very clearly how fear of emotional and physical pain has been the dominant factor coloring all of my decisions. This is probably why the darkworker path seems so right to me. Piggy backing on what you said earlier about fighting fear, I’m thinking that a good course of action for me right now is to move into the very areas that spark my fear, to deliberately expose myself to pain. I’m also thinking that consciously using the pain as a spur to growth is the smart way to “fight” my fear. Any thoughts?

This is not going to be mere theory for me. I won't let it be. I'm breaking out of the cage I've built for myself, one way or the other. I created my prison out of ignorance and self deception. That's good news for me, because that means that if I built it, I can destroy it!

DUH! I should just take my own advice, huh? How would a darkworker interpret Steve’s book? The answer to my last inquiry is a little thing called courage...

[Ecce Homo]

If you want to have the greatest impact, for yourself and/or for others, it seems that polarization is an expedient method to use. If you want to live a non-impactful life, then don’t polarize. I grok this part of Steve’s theory and accept it. The question I have is, what kind of impact is really desired?

Polarization seems to shed some light on the impact of some of the greatest people in history as well as some influential people in our own lives. For instance, I’m very good friends with someone I’d characterize as a lightworker. She’s knows nothing about the theory and she probably has never thought of it this way, but she quite literally elevates the consciousness of everyone around her, myself included. She almost shines and people in her life bask in her warmth. She’s constantly serving people, far more than I do. Not in a Mother Teresa kind of way, but in her own small but nevertheless meaningful way. No, she isn’t perfect, but she is committed to serving others in her corner of the world and we all feel blessed for it.

I also have a family member who is almost the exact opposite of my lightworker friend. She’s been consistently selfish for as long as I’ve known her. She’s arrogant, utterly self absorbed, never has a problem with finding romantic partners who seem to flock to her like moths to a flame and although she’s younger than me she probably makes 3 times more money than I do and well on the path to making more. (No, I’m not saying that making money is evil!) Her effect on those around her is the opposite of my lightworker friend. She carries conflict wherever she goes and everyone in her life seems to get swept up in her dramas. She firmly believes she’s the center of the universe and almost all around her oblige her in this delusion. People either love her to death, or they hate her with a passion. There’s almost no middle ground.

To reiterate, I wouldn’t say that these ladies are purely polarized. They don’t know anything about this theory as far as I can tell, and only my lightworker friend is aware of the LOA and IM. They’ve made no grand declarations about polarization. Even so, I would say that they have been more firmly and consistently living their lives along one spectrum longer than I have and the results, both good and bad, speak for themselves. Those that I know who have not been as consistent along one or the other path (myself especially) have mediocre results. That’s one of the main reasons I’ve accepted this theory. I can see the reality of it in my own experience.

I can also see that my darkworker family member's life is indeed chock full of competition, conflict and strife, as the polarization theory predicts. Yes, she quite regularly gets what she wants, but she seems to pay the price of suffering for it. I guess that is my question. Why inflict such needless suffering on yourself and others? For what? To what end?

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Lastly if someone is trying to seek higher levels of consciousness they are being darkworker-like. Lightworkers are not supposed to be thinking of themselves.

This is interesting. All lightworkers are really darkworkers then. As if the motivation to become a better spiritual person is ultimately selfish and if someone decided to be a lightworker to that end - they are a darkworker fooling themselves.

But I already think everyone is a darkworker or you'd be dead.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Lucid Dreamer

I believe in being polarised - either way - as providing more power and energy. And if someone knows how to do it (as Plato seems to be suggesting) then I'd like to hear it and maybe give it a try.

And then again, if one is trying to be a lightworker to gain power and get energy - what is that? Isn't that really darkworking?

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Plato

Yeah, anyone who you care about and anything that might produce a feeling of love or joy that extends beyond yourself, needs to go. Replace them with things that reinforce your darkworker state.

As a thought experiment imagine yourself as breaking connections with everyone, and focus inwards on yourself while you do it. If you do it right you'll feel the darkworker energy and you'll know the state you have to be in. It's more than just thinking "connections with other people are illogical"

What you are getting is freedom from people's behaviors. Being able to not engage other's patterns of relating is a healthy move to make. It's probably something everyone, that wants to be mentally healthy, has to come to realize. It's stepping out of co-dependence and unrealistic expectations. And if it's darkworking, then so be it. Although it seems like something anyone that wants to be clear would need to do. The other thing is I don't think it means you need to not relate to people - you just don't relate with setting up tons of expectations to fulfill in both directions. just my opinion.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Buttercat Apocalypse

...I think I need to really consider DW again, because otherwise I'm simply denying that that part of me exists.

Everyone is really a darkworker anyway. So, yeah - don't deny any of it by trying to be a lightworker.

[Daniel Birdick]

Here’s the problem with what you’re saying Ecce. I’ve come to see for myself that my fundamental psychological reality is fear. Virtually everything I do has its roots in fear. I’m not just talking about fear of particular things or people or what have you either. I’m talking about existential fear, the fear of nothingness. And I’m not the only one who lives with existential fear either. I’ve come to believe that almost everyone else does as well. I am willing to grant that in relatively rare cases, genuine love might actually be the root motivation. Religions tend to spring up around those types. But for the rest of us, fear is king. It really shouldn’t take much to convince you of that. All of you have to do is look around, watch the news, listen to people talk, read many of the posts in this forum. Even better, take a good long look in the mirror. I’m willing to bet you’ll find fear staring back at you.

So what do we do if we’re going to be ruthlessly honest and admit the true place of fear in our lives? Tell ourselves pretty stories about god, Buddha, Nirvana, karma, Jesus, and so on? Are we going to spend our lives distracting ourselves by collecting the baubles and trinkets that masquerade as new age “truths”? Are we going to pretend to be better people than we actually are in hopes that somehow our “goodness” will allow us to overcome the void and cheat death? I bet this is the real story behind your lightworker friend’s good deeds. Has it occurred to you that maybe she goes around doing good deeds in order to be seen as saintly by others, in order to be appreciated and admired, and in order to receive accolades and special treatment? What if she needs to be seen as special in order to avoid seeing the truth of her essential nature for herself, which is no-thingness? I think we fear seeing the truth about ourselves even more than we fear death. To see our real self (which is an oxymoron) is to be emptied of everything we think is true and valuable and that is something we’d do anything to avoid.

As for your family member, that’s already been addressed by the low level darkworker label. It sounds like she may have the right idea, but it also sounds like she has low self awareness, which would lead to a lot of unnecessary drama. Make no mistake though. Pain is inevitable. Conflict is inevitable. There is no getting around that. No matter how nice you are, power struggles will happen. Transcending this fact isn’t possible, short of massive denial. Why not embrace the truth and use conflict to your advantage? Why not make it work for you as opposed to judging it? Or perhaps you're afraid of conflict...

Look, this darkworker/lightworker business is interesting and useful but these terms are just another set of fictional stories. I get that. Even so, the darkworker story is superior only because it’s actually a little closer to most people’s reality. We’re selfish beings at heart and we’re afraid of the nothingness underneath our personal identities. If you become truly enlightened, well maybe you can get clear of all that, but for the vast majority of us, myself included, existential fear is all we have to work with. Instead of decrying it and denying it, I choose to embrace it and use it to my advantage. That’s what the darkworker philosophy is all about for me.

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Everyone is really a darkworker anyway. So, yeah - don't deny any of it by trying to be a lightworker.

Yeah, what he said, only I'd point out that although virtually everyone is a darkworker wannabe, most are never going to admit how truly selfish they are, nor are they going to be aware enough to make a conscious decision to be consistently and intelligently selfish.

[Ecce Homo]

Daniel, thank you for helping me to understand what I was missing about polarization. I think I was caught up with the idea that one has to choose between lightworking and darkworking in order to polarize and gain focus. I now see that this was a misunderstanding. The choice is not between darkworking and lightworking, but between two fundamental and opposing ways to view your life: love and fear. I now interpret the lightworking and darkworking philosophies as scaffolding that goes up around this central and primary choice. And make no mistake, it is a choice. We can choose to interpret our life story through love, a choice which would be associated with qualities like selflessness, trust, optimism, faith, hope, kindness, altruism, and so on, or we can choose fear, which is associated with qualities like selfishness, doubt, cynicism, skepticism, nihilism, unkindness, egotism, and so on. To choose fear as your primary lenses is to believe that the universe is a hostile place and that you must fight for everything you want in life. To choose fear is to isolate yourself from the rest of humanity, as Plato was alluding to. To choose fear is to be suspicious of everyone around you. To choose fear is to always be on guard against the attacks that you know are coming. Choosing fear means choosing to mistrust life itself. To choose love as your primary lenses is to choose to believe that you live in a friendly universe. To choose love is to believe that life is on your side. To choose love means letting go of the death grip you have on the steering wheel of your life, trusting that all will be as it should be and that everything will work out for the best. To choose love is of course to choose to love others as yourself, for you naturally come to see that they ARE your self. To choose love is to choose to repeatedly experience gratitude and joy. To choose love as your primary lenses is to choose to have faith in life.

Daniel, you say fear permeates your life. Is that by choice? If it isn’t, then you have not polarized.

[Parthon]

You got it spot on Ecce.

I would say, yes, everyone has fear, much like everyone has arms and legs. I would say the fear comes from our ego, that part of our whole being that's selfish, the "me" part. It's the part that feels separated, alone and is scared of everything. The part that doesn't want to stop existing and feels insignificant. It's also the part that most people think they are. Everyone has fear, because everyone has an ego.

But, it's what you honour. Your inbuilt fear, or your love for humanity. The choice to defend yourself, or open yourself up to oppotunities. The choice between following your dreams or running from your nightmares. The choice between loving other people, or hating them. It's possible to overcome fear competely, and for anyone who is determined to, it's inevitable. Just very few people try. Like Daniel said, if you look at the people around you, especially the TV, you can see the fear at work. Unlike what Daniel said, you CAN rise above fear, and it's not just masking it with a Jesus, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever, you actually can eliminate fear from your life.

Daniel: thanks for the insight.

Ecce: it sounds like you are well on the path of love already.

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by Ecce Homo

Daniel, thank you for helping me to understand what I was missing about polarization. I think I was caught up with the idea that one has to choose between lightworking and darkworking in order to polarize and gain focus. I now see that this was a misunderstanding. The choice is not between darkworking and lightworking, but between two fundamental and opposing ways to view your life: love and fear. I now interpret the lightworking and darkworking philosophies as scaffolding that goes up around this central and primary choice. And make no mistake, it is a choice. We can choose to interpret our life story through love, a choice which would be associated with qualities like selflessness, trust, optimism, faith, hope, kindness, altruism, and so on, or we can choose fear, which is associated with qualities like selfishness, doubt, cynicism, skepticism, nihilism, unkindness, egotism, and so on. To choose fear as your primary lenses is to believe that the universe is a hostile place and that you must fight for everything you want in life. To choose fear is to isolate yourself from the rest of humanity, as Plato was alluding to. To choose fear is to be suspicious of everyone around you. To choose fear is to always be on guard against the attacks that you know are coming. Choosing fear means choosing to mistrust life itself. To choose love as your primary lenses is to choose to believe that you live in a friendly universe. To choose love is to believe that life is on your side. To choose love means letting go of the death grip you have on the steering wheel of your life, trusting that all will be as it should be and that everything will work out for the best. To choose love is of course to choose to love others as yourself, for you naturally come to see that they ARE your self. To choose love is to choose to repeatedly experience gratitude and joy. To choose love as your primary lenses is to choose to have faith in life.

Daniel, you say fear permeates your life. Is that by choice? If it isn’t, then you have not polarized.

Brilliant!

[Akashic_Librarian]

I am a Darkworker. And I choose love.

[Marco Polo]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I am a Darkworker. And I choose love.

You'll probably be a more effective darkworker if you stop telling people that you're a darkworker. If people think you're a "good guy", they'll become less vigilant/defensive, and it's easier for you to control them.

Anyway, my main criticism of relying too much on self-interest is that no man lives in a bubble. We are dependent to some degree on our brethren to share physical resources and knowledge with us. Therefore it seems to me that some form of group-interest (like ethnocentrism) is much wiser. Also, how does self-interest affect your willingness to make sacrifices? It's hard to sacrifice for a greater cause, if your core value is self-interest. I'm skeptical to the whole idea of individualism.

[Marco Polo]

As for the role of fear, I agree with your earlier comments, Akashic. Fear continues to be stigamized for all the wrong reasons. People keep talking about fear-based this and fear-based that. To me a person who doesn't fear anything isn't fully rational. Society would fall apart if there was no fear. We would just open the gates to the barbarians, dismantle our police force and military and eventually the very basis of our civilization would collapse. It's only when fear stops you from doing the right thing (and taking risks when you need to) that it becomes an obstacle. I mean, in a perfect world we would use pure reason for everything, but we are emotional creatures and that's not about to change anytime soon.

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I am a Darkworker. And I choose love.

Excellent! I wish you many warm and happy connections!

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by ProjectX

Brilliant!

Originally Posted by Parthon

Ecce: it sounds like you are well on the path of love already.

Thanks guys! Wish me luck!

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

As for the role of fear, I agree with your earlier comments, Akashic. Fear continues to be stigamized for all the wrong reasons. People keep talking about fear-based this and fear-based that. To me a person who doesn't fear anything isn't fully rational. Society would fall apart if there was no fear. We would just open the gates to the barbarians, dismantle our police force and military and eventually the very basis of our civilization would collapse. It's only when fear stops you from doing the right thing (and taking risks when you need to) that it becomes an obstacle. I mean, in a perfect world we would use pure reason for everything, but we are emotional creatures and that's not about to change anytime soon.

I don't think the issue here is primal fear (fear for survival and resources). The thing is a lot of these fear based are artificial and they really don't exist.

A lot of fear preventing personal growth comes from the ego. In the PUA community there is the concept of approach anxiety when approaching a girl. This has been explained as an outdated biological mechanism in our brain. Nowadays a lot of this fear we have in our minds are obsolete in this modern world.

[jaydeschizo]

What is the purpose of this thread? It serves no point, the OP seems only interested in his own rightiousness. Nothing more than pointless mental masturbation.

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by jaydeschizo

What is the purpose of this thread? It serves no point, the OP seems only interested in his own rightiousness. Nothing more than pointless mental masturbation.

Welcome to Steve Pavlina forums.

What's the point of your post?

[Ecce Homo]

Originally Posted by jaydeschizo

It serves no point, the OP seems only interested in his own rightiousness. Nothing more than pointless mental masturbation.

Wax on, wax off! Besides, can masturbation ever really be pointless?

[ProjectX]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I am a Darkworker. And I choose love.

Yup. Who says that we need to use fear in the name of self-interest? Love and raising awareness can do wonders for self-interest. A darkworker can create value in this world (win-win). I like to call it The Light Powerworker.

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

I am a Darkworker. And I choose love.

Originally Posted by ProjectX

Yup. Who says that we need to use fear in the name of self-interest? Love and raising awareness can do wonders for self-interest. A darkworker can create value in this world (win-win). I like to call it The Light Powerworker.

That was something which I tried to get across in the OP: lightwork gives what's good from darkwork, but without the need to struggle. Why swim against the tide when the tide wants to take you in the right direction?

[CroMagna]

Plato, what is the difference between your concept of a darkworker and a sociopath? And how do you know that kind of mental manipulation won't lead to madness?

[Buttercat Apocalypse]

Originally Posted by CroMagna

Plato, what is the difference between your concept of a darkworker and a sociopath? And how do you know that kind of mental manipulation won't lead to madness?

In my unsolicited opinion,

the difference between darkworker and sociopath is that one term is made by new agey people, while the other is made by medical people. However sociopath being a medical term is making a value judgement that it is undesireable or sick, whereas darkworker makes no such judgement. I reckon that's why Steve likes the term so much.

And as to the second question... from my experiences in DW I can say yes, madness is a real risk. Pride goeth before a fall as they say. Perhaps a better DW than I would have taken my unhingeing as a sign to be more cautious, but I feel somehow more like the universe was beating me over the head with a roadsign saying "TURN BACK".

I don't want to make an enemy of the universe... it's bigger than me