Awareness Gained from Veganism

[JoeGoldfarb]

Adopting a vegan diet (i still wear leather boots has forced me into a rapid period of personal growth. I seem to be having trouble organizing and prioritizing my thoughts and ideas.

and I dont think I am explaining them well.

I posted a blog explaining what I have learned so far from veganism and it has garnered negative reactions from typical people - those who eat meat, those who are practical or conservative in thinking. they are friends who feel free to express their opinion, but I did not expect being viewed as crazy, so to speak. But now that you are aware of this negative reaction, you can look for reasons that would cause this reaction in my blog entry.

apparently the issue of contention is cruelty and life.

let me explain...
a vegan who proudly denies meat while ignoring the sacrifice a plant made to be in their salad i object. stopping an ethical line of thought at that which does not have a mind i object. that is what the blog is about - the irony of a vegan. this is why veganism is a social artifact because it responds to a social condition (animal rights) and stops short at all life. i argue that vegans should look beyond social and economic schemes into a deeper understanding of life, spirituality and ecology.

a person who gives prayer, blessings or "thanks" before eating a variety of food i respect because that action is an acknowledgment of life and sacrifice.

i am trying so hard to clarify my position! i hope the above helps. below is my line of thinking:

humans respect humans
vegans respect what has mind.
(blank) respects all life forms.

i feel i need to go beyond where veganism stops short.

here is the blog entry:
Wide Awake: Veganism Open Eyes at JoeGoldfarb.com

do i need to look into native american culture on how to resolve the sacrifice of life? (i am aware they eat meat. however, their spirituality seems to resolve or get around the problem of morality and cruelty inherent to eating.)
Is Jainism the answer? (they do not eat bulbs, tubers, roots or any other part of a plant that results in the death of a plant. they also do not eat animals. 4+million adherents in India. Veganism is not the logical end of vegetarianism -- it's Jainism. Veganism, a lifestyle, is a response to consumerism. because of this, that lifestyle seems shallow to me. Claiming that vegetarianism has been practiced for thousand of years is true, but because of a religion it exists.)

i am not trying to answer my own question, just throwing some directions to take.


thank you for helping a searching man lol
thank you for taking your time to read this.
just searching for a deeper meaning

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by JoeGoldfarb

humans respect humans
vegans respect what has mind.
(blank) respects all life forms.

My take on this would be:

People respect People
Vegans sympathize with that which can feel pain
HUMANS RESPECT ALL LIFE FORMS

Yes, that's right. Humans, at the pinnacle of their being, in my humble opinion, respect all life forms. That is where the Native Americans, Buddhists, and Jainas are based at the top of their chains. They all are conscious of the energy around them, and respect that energy.

This means, on top of being Vegan, to respect all life forms would mean to use only that which you need for sustenance in all formats. Your own personal energy should only be used to make yourself happy whilst harming the least number of things you possibly can.

Does this mean eating an all XYZ diet? Maybe.
Does this mean not owning more than one or two sets of clothing? Maybe.
Does this mean contributing to your community as well as your planet at all times? Maybe.

Does it mean that each choice should be a conscious one, and that ignorance to the situations and natural cycles around you means that, no matter what you do, you're still causing a lot of harm? I think so.

I think specifics are great (Religious and dietary choices, for instance) but for there to be a long term, impacting change, people need to think before they act, in everything they do.

[gettingskinny]

Originally Posted by Dave Kaminski

My take on this would be:

People respect People
Vegans sympathize with that which can feel pain
HUMANS RESPECT ALL LIFE FORMS

Yes, that's right. Humans, at the pinnacle of their being, in my humble opinion, respect all life forms. That is where the Native Americans, Buddhists, and Jainas are based at the top of their chains. They all are conscious of the energy around them, and respect that energy.

This means, on top of being Vegan, to respect all life forms would mean to use only that which you need for sustenance in all formats. Your own personal energy should only be used to make yourself happy whilst harming the least number of things you possibly can.

Does this mean eating an all XYZ diet? Maybe.
Does this mean not owning more than one or two sets of clothing? Maybe.
Does this mean contributing to your community as well as your planet at all times? Maybe.

Does it mean that each choice should be a conscious one, and that ignorance to the situations and natural cycles around you means that, no matter what you do, you're still causing a lot of harm? I think so.

I think specifics are great (Religious and dietary choices, for instance) but for there to be a long term, impacting change, people need to think before they act, in everything they do.

Very interesting!

[Steve Pavlina]

Fruit-eaters do pretty well because eating fruit doesn't kill the plant. The plant will eventually shed the fruit anyway.

If you have a garden, you can also eat certain vegetables while keeping the plant alive. For example, we have some green onions in our garden, and I can cut a few pieces off without killing the plant. New pieces grow back.

You don't have to achieve perfection. The point is simply to keep learning and growing. Your direction matters more than your current state. You'll be able to stop eating altogether when you die, so your ongoing footprint will eventually be zero no matter what.

I have more respect for the meat-eater who seeks continued improvement than for the vegan who says, "I'm done."

[ViewAllSides]

Steve's words are right on.

Joe, I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years and a vegan for almost three. Yes, people will think you are crazy...but please don't get wrapped up in intellectuality about this. It is as simple as the compassion you feel in your heart for animals. Period. You owe no one an explanation, and I get a sense that this is something you feel you must provide.

Remember Gandhi's statement: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” But more importantly, "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

My husband's family laughed out loud at us, but we were unflappable. We hosted a party and served innumerable vegan meat subsitutues. They thought they were eating meat. Then we surprised them. Alas, small victory. It was sheer time that eventually won their respect. They still don't really 'get it' but they are at least willing to accept it.

Find peace in Gandhi's words, my friend. By way of your veganism, you ARE the change you wish to see in the world. ( :

[JoeGoldfarb]

Originally Posted by ViewAllSides

Steve's words are right on.

It is as simple as the compassion you feel in your heart for animals. Period. You owe no one an explanation, and I get a sense that this is something you feel you must provide.

By way of your veganism, you ARE the change you wish to see in the world. ( :

"compassion you feel in your heart for animals" .... that is the problem with veganism and vegan literature i have read. the only compassion veganism mentions is directed toward animals (humans included). that does not sit right in my heart. i strongly feel that a human should think and act respectfully toward any life form and not have compassion be limited to what is considered to have a complex nervous system capable of emotions.

all living things are equal because all living things have life. life should be respected regardless of the form it animates.

therefore, i cannot adopt a vegan lifestyle due to this error in thought.

i respect veganism as a modern lifestyle and social construct to stand against factory farming and unfair trade.

but i guess i am looking for something more spiritual and universal.

i understand that a vegan diet is different from a vegan lifestyle. a vegan diet can be practiced as a means of achieving a spiritual goal, if it makes sense in that spiritual thought school. a vegan diet can be used as a tool much like yoga.

the last bit in your quote is quite empowering. thank you.

[JoeGoldfarb]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Fruit-eaters do pretty well because eating fruit doesn't kill the plant. The plant will eventually shed the fruit anyway.

If you have a garden, you can also eat certain vegetables while keeping the plant alive. For example, we have some green onions in our garden, and I can cut a few pieces off without killing the plant. New pieces grow back.

You don't have to achieve perfection. The point is simply to keep learning and growing. Your direction matters more than your current state. You'll be able to stop eating altogether when you die, so your ongoing footprint will eventually be zero no matter what.

I have more respect for the meat-eater who seeks continued improvement than for the vegan who says, "I'm done."

thank you for your encouragement.






now for everyone, the following is a brief update on my diet.

in summery, entering week five of my vegan diet i began feel poor. the air seemed cooler to my skin. everything seemed twice as heavy. once i started eating eggs i began feeling strong, happy and energetic.

interestingly, i was getting iron daily. also, i ate at least 40 grams of plant protein daily.

here is my blog entry, in expanded form, about coming out of a vegan diet trying eggs, fish and yogurt. blogging about my diet at JoeGoldfarb.com

I AM STILL WALKING THE ROAD!
it appears my body and mind where not synced up.

even though i provided food diet details, i am not expected anyone to analyze my diet. i just wanted to provide an update on my path.

and this part of the road taught me that I CAN eat more plants... with respect

[JoeGoldfarb]

Hehe, funny you should mention that. When I first experimented with a vegan diet I was very pro-vegan, but it was eventually this line of thinking (ie. what you mention) that made me chill out a bit.

Honestly, you have to draw the line somewhere (unless you don’t want to eat/live). But the difference between drawing the line at plant food and an animal is that the plant doesn’t show such severe signs of suffering (compared to an animal) when you "kill"/harvest it.

To my knowledge, a plant doesn’t cower, run away, or squeal in terror when you try to kill it. I don’t deny that there’s a good chance that plants do suffer to a degree and we merely aren’t able to perceive it (maybe we can and I’m just ignorant), but for me diet is all about a question posed to us by the universe, and what I end up eating is my answer to that question.

Personally, at this moment in time, I choose to reduce suffering as much as possible while still being able to continue a healthy, positive existence. I also choose to honour what sustains my existence by striving to live the best life that I can.

I’ve written about my experiences with a vegan diet before, and by far the most profound benefit of my transition to such a diet was that is served to induce growth and make me more conscious and aware.

Ultimatly, though, I'm pro-conscious choice. Choice is the only thing that's going to raise awareness, and it's the way the universe functions (at least I think so).
__________________
- Bruce Achterberg

the above is found in the following thread:
Vegans - Do you eat Eggs and Honey?

that is how i feel, is similar to what i have been thinking, and relates to what i have so far experienced. i am including it here for it's relevance to the thread title.

*update*
it happened again. i went back to a vegan diet for several days, eating fruits, jucied veggies, tofu and health bars (clif). after several days i once again began feeling weak and cold, but nothing else. i have ate four eggs in the last ten hours and i now feel fantastic and strong.

[Steve Pavlina]

@Joe: Are you sure you weren't undereating on calories? That's a common problem when people go vegan (or raw). Try tracking your calories and make sure you're getting enough. If you eat foods lower in caloric density, you need to consume a lot more mass.

[oberlee]

I am not a vegan, though every once in a while I eat vegan if I'm feeling unhealthy--forces me to cut out dairy and saturated fats.

Make sure you're combining proteins wisely--just because brussels sprouts have protein doesn't make that the same kind of protein as you get in meat, eggs, or tofu. Same with beans--you need to combine beans with rice, or an equivalent, to get a complete protein. This website seemed to be helpful, but there's also a ton more on the web: All for vegans and everyone else too.

My favorite diet, personally, is no animal products but fish and eggs. Fish is a wonderful protein, and I'm sorry, I can understand feeling bad eating a cow (I mean, it's a mammal after all), but fish seem to have less emotions than plants do. My 2 cents.

But yeah, if you're not getting enough protein--as it seems you're not--try making sure you have the correct plant-based proteins in your diet.

[Michael45]

Might I SUGGEST, that BEFORE you continue down this path, that YOU seek the advice of a PROFESSIONAL physician or nutritionist before you do IRREVERSABLE damage to your body that could include PERMANENT damage to organs or DEATH.....

Originally Posted by JoeGoldfarb

the above is found in the following thread:
Vegans - Do you eat Eggs and Honey?

that is how i feel, is similar to what i have been thinking, and relates to what i have so far experienced. i am including it here for it's relevance to the thread title.

*update*
it happened again. i went back to a vegan diet for several days, eating fruits, jucied veggies, tofu and health bars (clif). after several days i once again began feeling weak and cold, but nothing else. i have ate three eggs in the last nine hours and i now feel fantastic and strong.

[ViewAllSides]

Sorry Oberlee...While I am highly respectful of everyone's 2 cents, since we're on the subject of awareness, I wanted to share some info with you about studies that have shown that fish do indeed feel pain.

Following is just one of many links you can find if you google, "fish feel pain."

Fish 'capable of experiencing pain' - 30 April 2003 - New Scientist

Our world tends to have a hierarchal view of the animal kingdom with humans self-placed, of course, at the top. I think the only way this puffed-up exaggerated sense of self importance is ever going to change is if aliens land on the planet. Humans will very quickly move down a 'notch' in the hierarchy in an instantaneous rude awakening. Only by that sobering experience will we truly know what we have done to other creatures for so long.

For our current discussion, as we move down the 'hierarchy,' through the purportedly 'less important' species....like rats, mice, insects and...yes...fish, there is a very sad desensitization that takes place...I've actually heard people say, that eating chicken isn't as 'bad' (morally) as eating beef and eating fish isn't as bad as eating chicken.

Speciesism at its worst. But that's a whole other 'google.'

[andyoyo]

Most things have already been cleared up.

As far as eco-footprint, it takes around 10x the amount of food for meat then it does veg/fruit. For each tier, so if a lion only ate rabbits that ate veg/fruit a pound from the meat of the lion would = resources of 100lb veg/fruit

For nutrition, ever body reacts differently to foods. Many can live close to their best with a vegan diet as far as energy. Most bodies are very able to digest meat from evolution. A lot of bread is a very bad choice if you are a Vegan and trying to reach your energy potential, because humans are not used to it digested yet, its fairly recent. But with the current manufacturing & overpopulation, I'd suggest anyone to try out vegan for a few weeks, unless you are in a competitive sport / energy required activity that you can't sacrifice the change.