Evil Self-Help Speakers

[3nigma]

I don't know about you, but I see a ton of self help motivational speakers that are just scamming people. I'd like to get them out in the open, and I may be wrong here, but I'm trusting my intuition, which is never wrong.

Tony Robbins. I feel there is something wrong about this guy. I can just sense it. He's way too peppy and he feels fake. Look at this smile, it's pure evil. I've listened to a number of his audio programs and I didn't get ANYTHING good out of them. He just LOVES hearing himself talk, by the sound of some of his programs. He just rambles on and on, giving no good advice at all. The ONLY good thing I ever got from him is his breathing exercise, which isn't even his. That's been around for centuries. Also, he's got programs on relationships and such, and later I find out the guy's divorced. That's like a bum writing a book on how to get rich. His weekend retreats and seminars are $10,000. WOW, what a rip off! Teach me to get rich by paying you $10,000? That's pretty dumb isn't it? That's most people's life savings.

Wayne Dyer. This guy is blatantly full of ****. 90% of the things he talks about make no sense, don't work, and sound like they've been thought up in his daydreaming sessions 10 minutes before picking up his pen. Stay away, unless you like one of those feel good self help people that don't actually tell you how to do anything.

I can't think of more at the moment, but I'm sure you can help me add to the list. I have to add some GOOD speakers now, just to get a comparison.

Brian Tracy. I trust this man, I really do. He seems so genuine, and what he talks about makes total and complete sense, and it WORKS as I've tried his methods and techniques! He tells you beforehand that life isn't easy, and he's not going to bullshit you with firewalking, scams, and lies.

Steve Pavlina. Duh. I like the guy, he doesn't charge you anything for reading his articles, listening to his audio discourses, and it's all pretty much great advice.

Etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't believe ANYONE that gets a book published and calls themselves a motivational speaker. Look at Dr. Phil. My point exactly. Alot of them are scam artists, and they KNOW the American public eats up self help books like there's no tomorrow, so it's obviously an industry to get rich in, and quickly.

[Freelancer]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I don't know about you, but I see a ton of self help motivational speakers that are just scamming people. I'd like to get them out in the open, and I may be wrong here, but I'm trusting my intuition, which is never wrong.

Tony Robbins. I feel there is something wrong about this guy. I can just sense it. He's way too peppy and he feels fake. Look at this smile, it's pure evil. I've listened to a number of his audio programs and I didn't get ANYTHING good out of them. He just LOVES hearing himself talk, by the sound of some of his programs. He just rambles on and on, giving no good advice at all. The ONLY good thing I ever got from him is his breathing exercise, which isn't even his. That's been around for centuries. Also, he's got programs on relationships and such, and later I find out the guy's divorced. That's like a bum writing a book on how to get rich. His weekend retreats and seminars are $10,000. WOW, what a rip off! Teach me to get rich by paying you $10,000? That's pretty dumb isn't it? That's most people's life savings.

Wayne Dyer. This guy is blatantly full of ****. 90% of the things he talks about make no sense, don't work, and sound like they've been thought up in his daydreaming sessions 10 minutes before picking up his pen. Stay away, unless you like one of those feel good self help people that don't actually tell you how to do anything.

I can't think of more at the moment, but I'm sure you can help me add to the list. I have to add some GOOD speakers now, just to get a comparison.

Brian Tracy. I trust this man, I really do. He seems so genuine, and what he talks about makes total and complete sense, and it WORKS as I've tried his methods and techniques! He tells you beforehand that life isn't easy, and he's not going to bullshit you with firewalking, scams, and lies.

Steve Pavlina. Duh. I like the guy, he doesn't charge you anything for reading his articles, listening to his audio discourses, and it's all pretty much great advice.

Etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't believe ANYONE that gets a book published and calls themselves a motivational speaker. Look at Dr. Phil. My point exactly. Alot of them are scam artists, and they KNOW the American public eats up self help books like there's no tomorrow, so it's obviously an industry to get rich in, and quickly.

I did get a lot out of Tony, although I must say that NLP isn't my thing as you said it feels fake. The thing is he's a great speaker with a passion for life who's incredibly motivated, listening to him can give you a bit of his passion and motivation. I must say he's not for everyone and probably overrated as well.

Wayne Dwyer, never really listened to anything from him so can't comment. If its mostly 'The law of Attraction' then yeah I agree, it has its uses but not the power some people seem to attribute to this principle.

Brian Tracy, I've downloaded some stuff from him a while back but never got around to listening to it. So can't comment.

Steve, err obviously good otherwise I wouldn't be here.

Another good speaker I like to add is Jim Rohn.

[Jamie]

Just wanted to add to this, and I feel very strongly about this point, is that the number one person you want to listen to, is ALWAYS yourself.

My advice, is to take what works for you, understand why, and build it in to your own system, designed to get you where you want to go.

Different speakers will say different things, horses for courses, but for me at least, I always like to understand the dynamics and fundamental principles of life for myself, so I can work on my own system, my own life. Make my own life better (sod you lot).

[Chado2423]

My life worse for wear, right now... self-help programs not helping me in my life or in my friendships... ADHD symptoms worse, not better. Ex-gf hates me. DEPRESSION terrible. Want to get rid of that and get my life back to some sense of normalcy.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

I like the guy, he doesn't charge you anything for reading his articles, listening to his audio discourses, and it's all pretty much great advice.

I like Tony, I like Brian, Dyer, I can take or leave, and I don't know squat about Steve but I can say this if you measure the value based on free information that is a shortsighted measuring stick. I will pay loads for valuable information and coaching. So far, I seem to enjoy what I see of Steve but the cost of his material has never entered the equation.

Have you done any of Tony Robbins work? I get the feeling you haven't because of your statements. It isn't about the man it is about the message and in each of those you mentioned, there is value. Take it for what it is worth.

This is only my opinions and should not be taken seriously but is offered only for your consideration; Any opposing theories or ideas are just as correct or incorrect as mine.

[Steve Pavlina]

Brian Tracy is one of my long-term favorites too. I also like Stephen Covey, Denis Waitley, Jim Rohn, and Earl Nightingale. Tony Robbins is good too, but his material includes a lot of rah-rah fluff and not nearly as much actionable substance as someone like Brian Tracy, who packs in the good ideas more densely and concisely. Tony is better at selling his ideas to convince you they'll work and you may feel better while listening, but my results were better when I applied ideas from more straightforward authors/speakers. When I first encountered Tony's material, I learned to feel happy and excited while I was dead broke, and I remained dead broke. Other people's material didn't get me as pumped, but they helped me make realistic changes so I wasn't broke anymore. Personally I'd rather have a great result than a great feeling about a lousy result. Tony Robbins, however, is a much better speaker than most -- and very motivational.

In truth I find some value in almost everyone. Sometimes a good idea can come from an unlikely source. For example, Marshall Sylver is a Las Vegas stage hypnotist who's been known to rack up a lot of gambling debt around town. Many people think he's a scammer, asking, "If he can control his mind with hypnosis, why did he gamble away all his money?" Erin and I saw his show many years ago, which was really fun. I read his book Passion, Profit, and Power and absolutely hated his attitude and style, but he did have a few good ideas in there. One simple idea I learned from him is that a great way to interrupt an argument you're having with someone is to stop and ask, "Are you ready to get back to love?" You won't always get a yes answer, but it immediately raises the awareness of people in the conversation by acknowledge they're behaving in an unloving manner, and being right no longer seems like such a big deal.

My recommendations for specific authors/books are always available here:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/personal...ment-books.htm

[seeker5]

3nigma - simply because a speaker's message did not help you does not mean it will not help someone else. I have benefited from Tony Robbins, and somewhat from Wayne Dyers, as well as Dr. Phil's book. I have also benefited from listening to Brian Tracy and Steve Pavlina.

It's not a good-bad thing. It's about getting the most out of the information that each gives, instead of getting wrapped around their personality.

These are facts and should be taken seriously and is offered for your consideration; Any opposing theories or ideas are incorrect.

[oberlee]

I don't know the other guys (except Steve, duh), but I know Wayne Dyer. My mom LOVES him, and he's not my favorite, merely because his books come across very stream of consciousness. Like you said, he has these "daydreaming sessions." Actually, he even says that writing is, for him, just sitting down and pouring it out, and unfortunately, it comes off repetitive and unstructured, and not all that practical. "Be more mindful," or something like that. Uh, okay...

But he's not a scammer. People react to different people in their own individual ways, and to some people, the way Dyer's message is communicates reaches some people. I, personally, get inspired by him, but it stops there. I like Covey, too--very practical. I love Steve and this forum because it gives you everything from the uber-practical effectiveness end to the spiritual, and it's such a great resource for anyone to find the information he/she needs.

[Lucas]

Wayne Dyer is based more in spiritualism/faith stuff than most personal development speakers, and I think that results in people thinking hes a little more off. I do like how well read he is on wisdom through the ages and the man is probably just as much of an expert in the Koran and Gita as he is the Bible. While I don't agree with him all the time, I have taken away some great insights from the man.

[Tim Brownson]

I'm struggling to think of many people that have as much integrity as Wayne Dyer. He has become more and more spritual and less self devlopment oriented but as somebody else said, he is incredibly well read and I admire people that evolve and take on new beliefs as they uncover evidence.

A lot of people in the NLP community look down on Tony Robbins for taking other peoples ideas and using them for his own ends. Shock, horror, no s***!

That's what we ALL do.

None of this is new and TR has done a brilliant job of taking NLP and presenting it to the masses in a way that is acceptable to them. About 1 in 10 clients of mine have even heard of NLP, yet 9 in 10 know of Tony Robbins. Good for him! Added to that he is a brilliant NLP practitioner. Maybe not at the level of Bandler and Grinder but not far behind.

Steve, interested to note you never mentioned Dyer, any reason?

[Angela]

Wayne Dyer's books were the first personal development books I read, way back when I was a kid. I couldn't get enough of Your Erroneous Zones, The Sky's the Limit, How to be a No-Limit Person, all those books I would check out of the library again and again. What fun!

I can't bear to watch him speak, though.

[nick pagan]

I can highly recommend Wayne Dyer's first book "Your Erroneous Zones" as that has great practical advice on understanding what causes neurotic behavior and how to overcome it. His later books are much more spiritual in nature and he sure does take a long time to get to the point in them.

I spent a lot of money on TR courses. I cannot recommend any of them. He's a snake oil salesman in my book. There are a few insights in his books that helped.

I find it odd how a mention in one of TR's books as an exceptional example seems to be the kiss of death to anyone's career. Remember how he praised Michael Jackson just before the molestation accusations came? As for OJ Simpson, that's beyond belief.

[Steve Pavlina]

I like Wayne Dyer's material too. His books have been on my recommended reading page since the beginning. I've seen him speak several times as well.

He and I now share the same book publisher, Hay House, so someday our books will snuggle each other on the shelves... my single book with his two dozen, that is.

I'll be speaking at the same conferences as him a couple times this year (once in Vegas, once in Tampa), so I may finally get a chance to meet him face-to-face. They have a special speakers' dinner at both conferences, so I'll be sure to say hi to him if he attends.

Maybe I'll gift him with a scurvy elephant. (That's an inside joke for those who've heard him tell that story before.)

[Faith]

I see several people beat me in mentioning Wayne Dyer's "Your Erroneous Zones." That book gave me a powerful message at a time I needed it: that I am responsible for my life in all respects. There is no blaming other people. It had a profound effect on my life. It was much more life-altering for me than any other self help book I've ever read.

I've read most of Dyer's books, but I don't think he's ever done better than that one. His spiritual quest has changed the direction of his thinking over time. It is actually hard for me to read his later stuff, because he has definitely moved on to different guiding principles than he espoused in "Erroneous Zones."

Faith

[3nigma]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

Brian Tracy is one of my long-term favorites too. I also like Stephen Covey, Denis Waitley, Jim Rohn, and Earl Nightingale. Tony Robbins is good too, but his material includes a lot of rah-rah fluff and not nearly as much actionable substance as someone like Brian Tracy, who packs in the good ideas more densely and concisely. Tony is better at selling his ideas to convince you they'll work and you may feel better while listening, but my results were better when I applied ideas from more straightforward authors/speakers. When I first encountered Tony's material, I learned to feel happy and excited while I was dead broke, and I remained dead broke. Other people's material didn't get me as pumped, but they helped me make realistic changes so I wasn't broke anymore. Personally I'd rather have a great result than a great feeling about a lousy result. Tony Robbins, however, is a much better speaker than most -- and very motivational.

I had the exact same thing occur. When I started listening to Tony Robbins, as he was one of the first personal development speakers I had come across back in the day, I started getting an extremely optimistic view towards life. I used to be extremely pessimistic, but it wasn't by my choosing, I just felt like a victim. The more I listened to him, the better I felt. He could really pick you up after a depressing day. I was practicing the things he was teaching in the programs, for example his 'state changes' and changing the view you have of your reality.

But then... about a month or two later I realized I had gotten NOWHERE. My reality still sucked. I was still broke, I had no new friends, I had the same negative people in my life, and I also had a bit of social phobia. I was thinking very positively, but nothing seemed to change.

Then I picked up a Brian Tracy audio program, the Psychology of Achievement. Immediately I took responsibility for my life, and I set some goals and started working towards them like a madman. From being unemployed and completely broke, I had gotten a job. My social phobia had disappeared as I forced myself to interact with people at work and the more I did, the more relaxed I became. I also started speeding through and finishing some of my personal projects which I had at the time. I then saw Tony Robbins for what he was, a scam artist. A VERY good motivational speaker, an attractive guy, seems to have his life together, yes. But it wears off quickly after you try to take some of his garbled advice and put it to use, if you can even extract it from his shoddily put together programs.

Don't get me wrong, I listen to every self help speaker with no judgments at the beginning. It's not like I turned on Tony Robbins and went "Okay lets see what this ******* has to say!" I really did give everyone a chance, but after a while it was clear what was working and what wasn't.

Originally Posted by Jamie

Just wanted to add to this, and I feel very strongly about this point, is that the number one person you want to listen to, is ALWAYS yourself.

I completely agree. I used to listen to one person's entire program, and at the end I would go "I liked what he said in this part, but... do I REALLY have to do this crazy chant?" Something like that would always happen, until I realized that no ONE man was right, you just grab what you can and add it into your inventory of knowledge.

OH, I had to add this to my bash on Tony. Hah, in one program or video, I forgot... He would tell the listener to do a repeated chant that went "I will lead, not follow!" Irony, eh? I think that was one of the things that made me go "What a dick."

[Steve Pavlina]

@3nigma: Funny you should mention The Psychology of Achievement. I just re-listened to that whole program a couple weeks ago. It's one of my favorites too. I also like The Luck Factor and How to Master Your Time, although the latter one is pretty dated now.

The one thing I don't like about Brian Tracy's audio programs is that it's a little too obvious he's just reading from a script. His content is great, but he doesn't do as good a job of connecting with the listener as he could. You can often hear him shuffling his papers in the background when he pauses. That's a pretty minor quibble though.

[3nigma]

Yes, that's also a tiny complaint I have as well. The thing about Tony Robbins, you can feel the energy and enthusiasm of his voice even when the material is boring while Brian Tracy is almost completely uninspiring to listen to. My friend says he could never get into Brian's programs because of his "annoying voice." The man has timeless information, but the only real way to process it is with your logical mind. You can't argue with the material though.

It's sad how the "best", in terms of material, are often the most boring to listen to. Look at Napoleon Hill, I just can't stand the guy's voice!

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by 3nigma

Look at Napoleon Hill, I just can't stand the guy's voice!

I love Napoleon Hill's voice and command! I few months ago I listened to 8 hours of him speak, and it was very inspiring! Although, by the 4th or 5th hour it was getting a little tiring.

[nick pagan]

Originally Posted by Faith

I see several people beat me in mentioning Wayne Dyer's "Your Erroneous Zones." That book gave me a powerful message at a time I needed it: that I am responsible for my life in all respects. There is no blaming other people. It had a profound effect on my life. It was much more life-altering for me than any other self help book I've ever read.

I've read most of Dyer's books, but I don't think he's ever done better than that one. His spiritual quest has changed the direction of his thinking over time. It is actually hard for me to read his later stuff, because he has definitely moved on to different guiding principles than he espoused in "Erroneous Zones."

Faith

I am in 100% agreement with everything that you write here Faith. Robust and pragmatic thinking and methods are what I aspire to espouse.

Nick Pagan

[seeker5]

More about Tony Robbins.

I have learned tremendously from him - I have learned how to feel very confident and determined in many situations where I have to feel like that - I learned how to overcome huge debilitating shyness in public speaking and other areas of my life, how to feel a number of emotions I had never felt in my life before and thus how to get in touch with my emotional side which I had never allowed to develop until then.

Through Tony's teachings, I learned how to re-program my mind to really enjoy eating certain foods that all my life I had always found disgusting - thus for the first time in my life, I started not only being able to eat, but also loving raw spinach, corn, lettuce, salads, green peppers and other vegetables I had always found disgusting and had refused to eat. Now, several years later, one of my favorite meals is raw spinach with olives which I eat almost daily, something I would have found completely disgusting and repelling before I learned the stuff from Tony Robbins.

There's a lot more of great stuff I've learned from him, that I haven't mentioned. Things that I have never really seen elsewhere since, and I've read and listened to a lot of other audio books but haven't found that kind of information.

Nevertheless, my wish is that I had realized much sooner then I guess some of you guys did that he isn't the one-and-be-all-solution, because I was broke and poor for several years while listening to mainly him. When I decided to put all his material in a box and away and learn from others, I noticed I was able to once again start making a lot of beneficial changes.

Thus, I don't think he is a scam-artist - because some of his information and teaching is so incredible valuable and helpful and I still use it regularly. However, I no longer routinely recommend him to friends and people, and if I do, I try to give a lot of caveat and "be careful" about certain traps one may fall into when you find out how revolutionary helpful some of his teaching is.

[Jamie]

My perception on T.R. (from very limited experience, i.e. just his audio programs) is that he's great at whipping people up in to an emotional frenzy, and instilling an optomistic outlook, and beliefs about ones' life, and what's possible.

That's great, I think, in some ways. But. It's not the full story ...

I think people need a more fundamental grasp, ownership of, what actually works (for them) at this stage in their life. Different things are appropriate for different people, and, at different times in their lives. It's the taking ownership, I think, that counts. The working it out for yourself, rather than being spoon-fed. There's a danger, I think esp. in