Degree first or Passion first?

[Andreas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a little backwards to get a degree and then search for a job that goes with it?

Would it not be better to know yourself enough to know your passion and therefore the job that matches it, and go after that kind of job?

Had an interesting conversation recently, and it seems people approach this from both ends.

[schola]

It depends on your views.

I could never work in a job that I hated, so finding a major that I like has been very important to me. That's why I've gone through 3 majors in my 3 years of college.

I wrote about this in my blog a while ago. Choosing the right degree is more important than it used to be. Decades ago, if you simply <i>graduated</i> from college, you were somebody. Not anymore. Everyone goes to college these days; even farmers go to college to study agriculture. So just going to a university and pursuing any old degree isn't going to make you successful.

On the other hand, simply having a bachelors degree will make your resume look much better to prospective employers; even if you degree is in a different field.

[Brutha]

A lot of passions require having a degree. Studing an interesting topic can be part of your passion if you want to change the world in that field.

[Michael Chui]

A Bachelor's degree doesn't matter very much, but it's also better than nothing. If you know what your passion is, then go for it. If you don't, then get a degree. If your passion requires a degree, then there isn't much of a question.

[Groundless]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

A Bachelor's degree doesn't matter very much, but it's also better than nothing. If you know what your passion is, then go for it. If you don't, then get a degree. If your passion requires a degree, then there isn't much of a question.

I agree with all points above.

I will add:

Getting that diploma in and of itself only allows you the opportunity to walk through certain doorways. Many many "jobs" (passions) require a 4 year degree of some kind these days. If you aren't sure, a degree can at least help pay the bills while you figure out what you really want to do.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Groundless

Many many "jobs" (passions) require a 4 year degree of some kind these days. If you aren't sure, a degree can at least help pay the bills while you figure out what you really want to do.

A note: job requirements that list a degree requirement are frequently just culling out the people who don't want it badly enough. If you show that you can do the job they need you for, they'll hire you, degree or no degree.

[Mark Lapierre]

As schola implied, sometimes you don't know what your passion is when you first get to college. Or you might be mistaken. For example I was certain computers were my life when I left high school. I did a Computer Science degree but lost interest half way through. I got a job which was leading up to the job I really wanted, so the degree seemed unnecessary. The degree had seemed necessary because I believed the message I was receiving from many sources, that it's very important to go to university.

But after 7 years in the IT industry I finally came to terms with the fact that software development wasn't what I wanted to be doing for the rest of my life (despite what I felt in high school. I suspect the lack of experience had a lot to do with that).

Now I'm back at uni, soon to quit my current software development job so I can study Psychology full time (before moving on to neuroscience). So yes, now I know myself enough to know what my passion is. I'm still not sure what job I'll end up with once I've learnt a bit more. Perhaps I'll just keep learning and never actually get another 'job' (though hopefully the learning will generate some money).

[GoalSettingCollege]

A Bachelor's degree doesn't matter very much, but it's also better than nothing. If you know what your passion is, then go for it. If you don't, then get a degree. If your passion requires a degree, then there isn't much of a question.

Well said. Although going for a degree if you don't know what's your passion seems such a waste of resources, it's what I see everyday around me. Sad but that's the truth.

Cheers,
Ellesse

[evelynlim]

A certificate helps open doors. But there is no guarantee that you will like doing what you have studied nor is there any guarantee that you will be successful in your job.

Obviously, the best is we can identify our passions and then study for the type of work that we are likely to do. The problem is that most of us do not know what we want at a young age and have never been encouraged by our parents to pursue our passions. More often than not, our parents prefer us to take on jobs that they think will pay well.

I've had this personal experience myself. I got my degree but was never happy. Until I asked myself what excites me and what is my vision. Now, I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

Evelyn

[Andreas]

What an excellent discussion that has formed here. Thank you for your encouraging words.

Yes it is quite interesting how degrees are viewed has changed considerably over the decades. Are we headed into a world where one cannot get a job above minimum wage unless one has a college degree? A complete over-saturation of degrees? Do we already live that this world? What does this say about the quality of High School education?

[Mark Lapierre]

I'm just speculating so don't take any of what I say as fact, but I think that as productivity increases and roles become more specialised, it is more and more important to have a degree, or at least specialised training.

But certainly some forms of specialisation can be self-taught. There are enough good books available that someone with a keen mind could become a very good software developer, if they put in enough effort. I suppose the same could be said of most well established fields where it's possible to get access to good information and affordable tools. So fields which would be excluded (and therefore still require a degree) might be applied sciences, medicine (you could learn, but you couldn't practice). Basically anything which requires access to expensive tools which aren't available to the public. Or for which book learning doesn't easily translate into physical skills without trained guidance.

As for the quality of high school education, I don't think high school education is supposed to prepare people for the same kind of roles as tertiary education does. Even if someone starts working in a minimum wage position, I highly doubt that if they showed the required skills (which they could pick up on the job, or already possess without realising) they'd be refused a promotion because they didn't have a degree. Hell, it's possible they'd be given the position instead of someone with a degree because the new girl might expect more money. Plus there's the costs of placing job ads, interviewing, etc.

That's more or less how I got where I am. I started in a technical support position (all it truly required was the ability to follow a troubleshooting guide, and some people they hired couldn't even do that properly). After getting to know the support side of the business I used my self-taught web development skills to create a tech support Intranet (because all the information we techs needed was all over the place before). The Product/Web development department then grabbed me, then it was on to the Software Development department. That path didn't require a degree, though someone with an appropriate degree could jump straight into any of those roles.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Yes it is quite interesting how degrees are viewed has changed considerably over the decades.

It's worth looking at how they were viewed when they first came into being. The university, and indeed formal schooling, came about around 500 years ago, if I remember my history correctly. This was at a time when the concept of a job didn't really exist yet.

To maintain relevance (and more importantly: public funding), universities branched out into transitional institutions. Meaning, they became places where you studied for a number of years, and then left. This was an innovation: to leave by way of not-being kicked out.

Originally Posted by Andreas

Are we headed into a world where one cannot get a job above minimum wage unless one has a college degree? A complete over-saturation of degrees? Do we already live that this world?

As Mark points out, we are most certainly not headed into a world where a degree is paramount. Colleges and their faculty simply aren't that competent; intelligent employers know better than to require a degree.

On the other hand, statistics show that an over-saturation of degrees has already happened. The worth of a bachelor's degree is plummetting. However, is that because there are too many, or is it because diploma-holders are incompetent? I think it's the latter; the failure to transfer abilities of class-passing into job performance is palpably obvious, and the pay accorded to new hires has decreased to match.

[Alison Jenkins]

I did my degree after finding a career I loved. Saying that it was the normal route to take when I trained but today no one has that option. I have to say I did my degree when I had 3 young kids and it would have been much easier had I done it at 18.

I am still studying years later as I love to learn everything I can. My poor husband asks me when will I stop as I have over 20 diff courses, qualifications etc. I believe in life long learning and I am passionate about my career.

Alison

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Brutha

A lot of passions require having a degree.

I disagree. It is the other way around: a lot of degrees require having a passion.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I disagree. It is the other way around: a lot of degrees require having a passion.

It's both. [blahfillertext]

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

It's both.

While I'll agree that there are some passions that are exceptionally hard to find work in without a degree (being a neurosurgeon springs to mind), in general I feel that the passion is much more important.

A degree (and education in general) can also serve, unfortunately, to kill the passion.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

A degree (and education in general) can also serve, unfortunately, to kill the passion.

Absolutely! Couldn't agree more!

[Mark Lapierre]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

A degree (and education in general) can also serve, unfortunately, to kill the passion.

Maybe I'm being picky here, but is it the degree or education which kills the passion, or the style of education? Uninspiring lecturers with poorly structured material. Exams and assignments designed to encourage students to learn things by rote, rather than actually understanding them. That sort of thing...

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Maybe I'm being picky here, but is it the degree or education which kills the passion, or the style of education? Uninspiring lecturers with poorly structured material. Exams and assignments designed to encourage students to learn things by rote, rather than actually understanding them. That sort of thing...

Classes made a requirement in order to weed out the people who don't want it badly enough...

[ladybug]

I can't speak for anybody else, except for my own experience with this, so I hope it helps in some way. In the beginning I had passion for Art. It took many forms that started when I was about 7, drawing/coloring up into Jr. high, drawing and painting. Moving on to highschool, fashion design and sewing. Then college with computer graphic work, majoring in Fine Art and then Graphic Design. In my full time day job I am a Computer Artist and Animator and I also own a vinyl graphics business which I started in June, which I LOVE and can't wait to move on to full time.(working on the health insurance issue and a saving more funds). So the passion has always been there. The degree helped polish a few of my skills and also helped me choose which direction I wanted to go in. It also helped me land a good job, which I really like. I am always learning and growing in my career so it is ever changing. As long as the passion is still there then it works. The degree, however, helped me land a job with my current employer where degrees are valued, so I am paid a good salary. This is my thirteenth year with them. I value them just as much. But I am getting ready to break free on my own soon. It's always evolving, changing, but the passion is still there. I am curious what it will be in the next twenty years.

Good luck to you!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Mark Lapierre

Maybe I'm being picky here, but is it the degree or education which kills the passion, or the style of education? Uninspiring lecturers with poorly structured material. Exams and assignments designed to encourage students to learn things by rote, rather than actually understanding them. That sort of thing...

I agree with you. It is the style of education at many of our schools, colleges and universities that kills passion, not education itself.

The current system may work for some, but definitely not for everyone.

[joyseeker]

Originally Posted by ladybug

I can't speak for anybody else, except for my own experience with this, so I hope it helps in some way. In the beginning I had passion for Art. It took many forms that started when I was about 7, drawing/coloring up into Jr. high, drawing and painting. Moving on to highschool, fashion design and sewing. Then college with computer graphic work, majoring in Fine Art and then Graphic Design. In my full time day job I am a Computer Artist and Animator and I also own a vinyl graphics business which I started in June, which I LOVE and can't wait to move on to full time.(working on the health insurance issue and a saving more funds). So the passion has always been there. The degree helped polish a few of my skills and also helped me choose which direction I wanted to go in. It also helped me land a good job, which I really like. I am always learning and growing in my career so it is ever changing. As long as the passion is still there then it works. The degree, however, helped me land a job with my current employer where degrees are valued, so I am paid a good salary. This is my thirteenth year with them. I value them just as much. But I am getting ready to break free on my own soon. It's always evolving, changing, but the passion is still there. I am curious what it will be in the next twenty years.

Good luck to you!

Ladybug-
I am a 3rd year ( 5 year plan) college student currently getting my Fine Arts degree with the concentration of Graphic Design too. I'm having a hard time knowing if Graphic Design is a passion of mine. How do you know if you are passionate about graphic arts stuff?

[sbdiane]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a little backwards to get a degree and then search for a job that goes with it?

Would it not be better to know yourself enough to know your passion and therefore the job that matches it, and go after that kind of job?

I think what is backwards is linking career and degree. Unless you know for certain you want to be a doctor or engineer, you don't really have to fret too much about the degree. Doors will not slam shut if you choose sociology instead of anthropology. Doors won't even slam shut if you choose sociology instead of computer science. Some computer science majors can't program their way out of a paper bag and some English majors are brilliant programmers.

People engage in life-long learning nowadays. It is the only way to survive our fast-changing world. There was no Internet when I started college. There were no personal computers when I went to high school. I learned to type on a manual typewriter. How could I have chosen a career in web programming and a major to support it? Did my college degree keep me out of that career path? It did not.

[CroMagna]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a little backwards to get a degree and then search for a job that goes with it?

Would it not be better to know yourself enough to know your passion and therefore the job that matches it, and go after that kind of job?

Had an interesting conversation recently, and it seems people approach this from both ends.

I think it's better to get the degree and a good job, and be looking for a passion while you're supporting yourself by working at a stable job. I STILL don't know what my passion is, but I don't have any money and I can't support myself by flipping burgers, so I'm getting a stable career first and looking for my passion later.