The evils of Charity

[Akashic_Librarian]

Charity. Nothin' wrong with giving to the local Cancer research charity right? Homeless people NEED that money your giving obviously!. Its all for a good cause, these people are OLD!

*Sighs and shakes head*

Not a lot of people will say that charity is bad, its one of those annoying little tghings that have crept into mainstream society. Charity on the surface is a noble thing, it seems morally obligatory. But so does communism, and we know how that panned out don't we.

You see I believe that when your asked to give to charity, its best to refuse. People don't need charity, it only serves to prolong their suffering. The fact is that homeless people shouldn't be led to believe that being homeless is acceptable simply because you get a free handout for it. Nor should people believe that if they simply say they can't work, then its inevitable some do-gooder from he government throws wads of money at them. Nor should young mothers simply have as many kids as possible so they can get a free council house, a nice little salary and probably socially retarded kids.

People have to learn to stand on their own two feet. Its not good helping people ALL the time. People have to be independant and must learn that to live in our society you HAVE to contribute, we live in such close quarters nowadays, that it seriously messes up the fine balance we have going when someone decides they are going to steal welfare or whatever you get in your country.

Of course the greatest evil of Charity is that we all give to it without realising. Here in the UK your taxed for damn near everything possible. And most of that money goes to scrounging scumbags that have 25 kids, all of whom wear fake burberry caps, drink white lightening (cheap cider), and smoke profusely from age five. These people contribute only to the drugs trade and the abuse of children.

People today believe that they can sit on their arses and do sod-all whilst a few people work hard to earn money that is taxed and then given top the people who do nothing and expect everything on a silver platter.

Well I for one am sick of this. Charity has to stop. Independence is slowly becoming a myth, a social oddity, something to be rejected and shunned.

It makes me sick.

[Pegasus]

Charity is not intended to be a long-term fix. It can be a life preserver till the recipient has the strength to swim.

...

[Akashic_Librarian]

Maybe its not intended to be.

But I am not talking about intentions. I am talking about what really happens.

[Spiritual]

If it feels good to give to charity, then give. It's easy as that!

[Akashic_Librarian]

No it isn't. Doing something just because it feels good is horribly ignorant.

My point is that by giving to charity then you are prolonging suffering in others. Is that really the cost you wish to exact for your apparent happiness?

[Bliss Sage]

I guess you didn't like or agree with Steve's "Love your work or don't work at all" article

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

No it isn't. Doing something just because it feels good is horribly ignorant.

My point is that by giving to charity then you are prolonging suffering in others. Is that really the cost you wish to exact for your apparent happiness?

It's certainly presumptuous to say those people are suffering. If you were getting money for free, would you feel as though you were suffering? Don't you think if they were suffering like you say, they would do something about it? The fact is, they are living a life they know and choose and any one of them that is suffering enough will find his way out of it. I think you are just feigning concern about their alleged suffering in order to promote your opinion, because you are resentful of the fact that you work while these "suffering" people sit back on their laurels living off of the money you're giving them through taxes.

[Jenny]

I understand your frustrations although I don't particularly agree with your conclusions. I pause when I read your words primarily because charity doesn't exist to give only to those who in your opinion don't deserve it but it also gives to children who have done nothing to deserve the life circumstances in which they find themselves as well as to people who have had bad things happen and have no other financial resources besides themselves.

I also wonder why no outrage (or to be fair no outrage in your original post) towards all of the recipients of corporate welfare or charity. Surely they are a much bigger blight upon society than the easy, socially acceptable targets you single out.

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

No it isn't. Doing something just because it feels good is horribly ignorant.

My point is that by giving to charity then you are prolonging suffering in others. Is that really the cost you wish to exact for your apparent happiness?

You're looking at this whole situation from your own personal, egoic, arrogant point of view (no offense intented). You are assuming YOU know how life SHOULD be, for it to be better for EVERYONE.
If some folks feel good being a homeless person and asking for money, then who are we to say they can't?

As humans we can only do what feels best to us, and trust that whatever we chose to do, is perfect for that moment.

[Dan.Linehan]

Hard drug use feels good for an addict when they have a craving. Fast food tastes great but destroys heath over a couple decades. Some men feel good beating their wives.

Your statement that, "As humans we can only do what feels best to us, and trust that whatever we chose to do, is perfect for that moment." is not valid. Humans certainly CAN and should do more than only what feels good to them at that moment.

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Hard drug use feels good for an addicts when they have a craving. Fast food may taste good but also destroys heath within a couple decades.

Some men feel good beating their wives when they lose their temper.

Your statement that, "As humans we can only do what feels best to us, and trust that whatever we chose to do, is perfect for that moment." is not valid, humans certainly CAN do more than only what feels good to them at that moment.

It's not as black/white as you're portraying it. Something that feels good is referring to the feelings deep within. Like it feels good to just do something for free for someone. Or like it feels good to give someone a touch, or a hug.
It can also feel good to start your own business.

I do not however believe that it truly feels good for someone to hit someone. It's against our nature. Just as feeding ourselves with drugs and unhealthy foods. I am not talking about satisfying superficial needs, I am talking about our deepest desires and our nature.

And so I do not agree that we as humans can do more than doing whatever feels good. Practically speaking we can ofcourse, we can go against our nature ofcourse. But we then have to ask ourselves, is this what the best choice is? Since we never know what our actions lead to or what kind of chain of happenings ou actions bring, we can only do things blindly. And since in my opinion, doing things what feels good for me are also the things that are aligned with my being, I see these actions as the best choice.

[Brutha]

Independence is slowly becoming a myth, a social oddity, something to be rejected and shunned.

As long as there are multiple people in the world cooperation is a lot more effective than total indepence.

Something as complex as a pencil can't be made without using the knowledge of multiple people.

Here in the UK your taxed for damn near everything possible. And most of that money goes to scrounging scumbags that have 25 kids, all of whom wear fake burberry caps, drink white lightening (cheap cider), and smoke profusely from age five. These people contribute only to the drugs trade and the abuse of children.

You probably know as well that this claim is nonsense and wouldn't hold up when you would look up the number, so why are you making it?

People don't need charity, it only serves to prolong their suffering. The fact is that homeless people shouldn't be led to believe that being homeless is acceptable simply because you get a free handout for it

That quite easy to justify letting a few people starve that way, isn't it?
Don't pretent that you actually care, you think that they don't deserve any more.
Things are often more grey than black or white. Some charity produces bad structures that outweigh the benifit it provides.

If you think that everyone should act only in there own self interest, don't complain when a few rich people get lynched.
When you press people into having to do something to get something to eat, a good percentage will see no other option but to steal. The have nothing to lose either way.

It a pretty good deal, the poor get something to eat from the rich and don't have to robe the rich to eat.
The second is inefficent because, the violence of robing people is a costly sidefactor (the state of nature where everyone looks only after themselves).

As a whole it is more efficent to pay a few goverment folks to redistribute that money than to take violent redistribution.
Are you willing to pay that price?

[Akashic_Librarian]

I let my anger get the better of me, and it blinded my words to their true meaning.

Obviously 5 year olds don't smoke, obviously people don't have 25 kids, obviously the world isn't overrun with degenerates.

That quite easy to justify letting a few people starve that way, isn't it?
Don't pretent that you actually care, you think that they don't deserve any more.

Thats cold Brutha. Did I say I didn't care? Its out of my compassion that I cannot see their state of emptiness and hopelessness perpetuated. That will sound false I know. But its the truth. Its like tough love. I could be soft and nice, saying that these people really do just need a bit of support. A bit of financial help to get off the ground. But in the long run where does that get anyone?

When it comes down to it, its all about the values we teach our children, and adhere to ourselves.

If you think that everyone should act only in there own self interest, don't complain when a few rich people get lynched.

But thats not acting in their own self interest. thats just feeding their egos. Thats just stupidity. If they truly acted in their own self-interests they would have made sure people where happy, and no one wanted to lynch them. That is being truly self-interested.

Like you say its not always black and white. And you shouldn't assume self-interest is really a bad thing.

...and just incase my ponit was lost. I still stand firm; Charity is no good.

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I cannot see their state of emptiness and hopelessness perpetuated.

Funny, you just described "enlightenment"

[Pegasus]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I let my anger get the better of me

Why are you angry? You can choose to act with compassion or indifference, yet you choose to get onto a soapbox. It is easy to judge when you have not walked a mile in their shoes. What event preceded your post?

[Akashic_Librarian]

No event.

It was just a thought.

[Honeywith4bees]

I just have to add my two cents because I was a recipient of "charity". About three years ago, newly divorced, four kids to feed and a pretty cold house to heat. I only had a part time job and not any child support to count on, so . . I went to food pantries for a few visits and applied for and received fuel assistance. All hand outs. It sucked bringing myself down to that level. But it would have felt far worse to me, to have had my kids cold and hungry.

I don't get those handouts anymore.

I just needed a little help for a little while.


However, I know that there are quite a few others who are very happy to exist on handouts and to keep existing on them.

I choose to give, now that I have the means to make that choice, with the feeling that if one other person benefits the way that I and my children did, it will be personally worth it.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

My point is that by giving to charity then you are prolonging suffering in others.

It's their decision. You think we should take action against their decisions and force them to learn what you think would be good for them? It's none of our business. You can't know what others should do, have to do, and must do. Why does it bug you so much that some people take decisions you don't approve?

I don't believe that most of your tax money is used to support asocial freeloaders. There are people who wouldn't really need it, yes, and people who chose that way of living as a long term solution, yes, and people who don't give a ♥♥♥♥♥, yes, but relatively few of them. The state's financial support predominantly goes to people who really are not able to work or to find a job, to disabled persons, to children, to old people and to people who are having big, big problems. Plus, your tax money is used for many many other purposes than welfare, you know that very well.

That's how solidarity works, and I'm glad that we have such a thing. I don't understand why it bugs you so much that a part of the taxes your pay allows a few people to live in a way you don't agree with.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

The fact is that homeless people shouldn't be led to believe that being homeless is acceptable simply because you get a free handout for it.

It sounds like independently from the money you don't want to give them, you have a general problem with people being homeless. Why is being homeless not acceptable?

You don't seem to like people you find useless. What is being useless? You say people have to contribute. What is contribution? When a beggar smiles at me, gently says hello and wishes me a nice day, which happens often, and that even when I don't have any money to give him, well for me that's a meaningful contribution. It makes my day a bit brighter. That makes much more sense in my life that the contribution of someone who has a good job and pays his taxes and bills, but is a manager in the armament industry, doesn't care about others and looks morose when I meet him on the street.

It sounds like you're having a problem with yourself that massively pisses you off. Is there something you don't care about enough? Do you feel you're not independent enough on some level? Or are you feeling jealous because you're very demanding with yourself and they are not?

[Brutha]

If they truly acted in their own self-interests they would have made sure people where happy, and no one wanted to lynch them. That is being truly self-interested.

For a single rich person it doesn't matter whether he given something to charity. On the other hand it matters for the group of rich people and therefore we have charity in our Western nations.

Thats cold Brutha. Did I say I didn't care?

I'm sorry if it was a bid strongly worded. The problem is that your post reads like being angry at charity is the thing that drives your post. Anger is a different thing than coldness but it isn't necessarly better.

Like you say its not always black and white. And you shouldn't assume self-interest is really a bad thing.

I don't think that self-interest is bad. I just think that appealing to self-interest is good for some problems but not so good to solve other problems.
For some problems it is better to build a system that serves the group-(of indivudals who cooperate in a society)interest instead of one that serves individual interests.

[Ninja]

It depends on the charity. Ya know... give someone a fish or learn them how to fish. If the money is used to give food, I don't think it's a good idea (unless someone is dying, of course). But if the money is used to build a school so people can learn skills to earn their own food, then we're getting somewhere!

[Akashic_Librarian]

Let me tell you why it annoys me. It bugs me because its my world I have to live in, as well as yours. Its OUR world. Its all well and good saying people should live in whatever state of asocial squalor they choose. But its not fair.

The human spirit is capable of amazing feats of intelligence, strength and creativity. It saddens me when I see people not living up to their potential, where they could be so much happier. Stronger. Wiser. Richer. But no.

People prove their affinty for misery. The fact is people define their lives by how much they are suffering. People don't want solutions. They want the free handouts. They want to think only of the problem. Not the solution.

If you think of the solution to, lets say, your homeless. If you think of the problem, your always worried about getting enough to drink, getting food, finding a safe place to sleep. So charity is the obvious lifeboat here. HOWEVER if you think of the solution then its more about finding a way of getting that income independant of charity. Maybe that means education, and maybe that means getting a job, and maybe that means going to a hostel and for a dshort while using its services to get yourself back on your feet.

So maybe in that sense charity is good. Abd perhaps I should have worded my argument better. Attachment to charity is no good. And believeing that simple handouts of food and money are the answer. Is wrong.

[m18pak]

Akashic, it's quite brazen of you to make such sweeping generalizations.

Look, I don't want to sound patronizing, but maybe you shouldn't reach beyond yourself so in your opinions.

Now, please don't get offended or anything, but I'm going to make a ... 'diagnosis' of you, and I'm asking you to seriously think about what I say before you get mad.

I think that you're an intelligent person, who is lacking in common sense.

Just because you're smart doesn't mean that you're wise.

All too often intelligent people fall prey to 'know-it-all' syndrome: they get used to always knowing, so they think they always know, especially about simple matters such as how the world should be run.

Tis the hubris of the thinking man, my friend.

Just a thought.

[Old Soul]

You see I believe that when your asked to give to charity, its best to refuse. People don't need charity, it only serves to prolong their suffering. The fact is that homeless people shouldn't be led to believe that being homeless is acceptable simply because you get a free handout for it. Nor should people believe that if they simply say they can't work, then its inevitable some do-gooder from he government throws wads of money at them. Nor should young mothers simply have as many kids as possible so they can get a free council house, a nice little salary and probably socially retarded kids.

This is thee most stigmatising , unfair , ignorant, and misunderstanding of charity statement I have ever heard!
in fact it is more ignorant than the point in case of the very argument you are trying to convince me off, I am so offended and I say this in honor off all the human beings, that have to endure such ignorant cruel statements!!!!

I spent one week in a " womens charity house", this house was a shelter for women and children who were making changes in their lives , who needed imediate food and shelter from leaving the most abusive sitatuions one could possibly imagine...!!!!!!! ( And I mean unbelievable ) These ladies were being taught life skills , working skills to be able to make healthier choices, to be able to be independant and care for their children, the children were recieving councelling and support , this particular home for women relies very much on the "charity" of others, it is a huge project of a city working together for the betterment of individuals, drawing off every bit of help they can possibly get... from Doctors to dentists drug rehab clinics!! clothing drives, toy drives, food donations ,


Shame on you for prolonging their suffering!!!


Sow a seed of hope
awaken to a dream
lay upon your bed of faith
and move a mountain to carry out that dream
the hands of charity will run to meet you
"TOEGETHER" we will fulfill the dream
thankful for the seed of love
the reason for everyones dreams

[Groundless]

AL

I know you like to stir things up and show your wit and intelligence for the fun of it at times. Normally, I enjoy this from you, however, on this topic, I feel you have shown that you are missing the point of life. This is not to say you don't have a point, because, you do, however, your words and intent seemed hurtful and doing harm to the world more than helping it.

I agree with the two posters before me.

After you have experienced more of life, seen some of the "unfair" things that sometimes happen to good people, you may sing a different tune. Before making broad generalizations like you did here I'd suggest experiencing more of life and seeing more of the world. This would include homeless shelters and other "ugglier" parts of our world.

Compassion and love is the thing. If we are all one, then, consider treating yourself with love by being more compassionate and loving to all.

[Spirittap]

If someone needs some change or food, i will be happy to give them some. We have no idea why someone ends up being homeless. Maybe they lost their families or job or just mentally broke down. We all need a helping hand sometimes. Nothin wrong with that.

You're being helped by spirit guides you may not even know are there. You could classify their help as "charity". There is nothin wrong with helping someone or being helped. To think that you need to be completely independant is an illusion of your ego. We're being helped all the time, even when you do not realize it.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I am sorry but this time i refuse to back down. I strongly believe that Charity does more harm than good. Sure it has some good points. But lets think about what charity IS.

Charity is giving something that you have, to another person without expecting anything in return.

Its sounds fairly noble and I can totally understand why you might find it easy to think that it is a 100% good thing. Its just not! Yes it has good points, but so does everything.

Evil is not something in and of itself. It is countless small depravities. Charity has become one of these depraveties. BUT only on a monetary and physical level. If I give my time or knowledge up for free, then really thats only going to damage my bank account. And that really is a personal choice because it does have positive consequences for people.

However when I start giving money out...then it becomes more complicated. Corporations use charity to buy public opinions. people have started to become dependant on charity and that is not something I wish to see happen to people. I would never allow myself to have my main source of income as a charity. Its just wrong. Its not only disrespectful to ourselves, its disrespectful to the people who give the money. If i give to charity (which I seldom do) then I expect it to be used for some worthwhile cause. Which is why I don't donate to any charity except save rural england, because I'll be damned if rural england can save itself. I won't ever give to things like anti-social rehabilitation because I don't think that is an effective use of my money. I would rather go and council the anti-social people and teach them life skills, THATS effective charity. Rather than just throwing money at them.

I am not saying this to stir things up, and I don't intend to flaunt my wit and inteligence, not this time. This is deadly serious and I am being deadly serious.

So far all I have heard is denunciations of what I have said, no real arguments have stuck in my mind. Only specific anomalies and general "Wait till your older" statements.

I happen to be a very nice person (honest) I just happen to think about things more than the common man.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I won't ever give to things like anti-social rehabilitation because I don't think that is an effective use of my money. I would rather go and council the anti-social people and teach them life skills

...or donate a generous amount to Steve's website

[mochamajesty]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I would never allow myself to have my main source of income as a charity. Its just wrong. Its not only disrespectful to ourselves, its disrespectful to the people who give the money..

Ask any homeless person on the street if they planned on being homeless. That is, if you will deign to speak to them. As for welfare recepients, some take advantage, some do not. As you said earlier, it is that way with everything. Oh, and never say never. I sincerely hope that you do not lose a job, or end up homeless.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

.....and I don't intend to flaunt my wit and inteligence, not this time..

No worries about that.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

So far all I have heard is denunciations of what I have said, no real arguments have stuck in my mind. Only specific anomalies and general "Wait till your older" statements.

What arguments can we possibly give? You do not think that people who receive charity deserve it. You seem resentful or angry for some reason. I am indpendent as well. And trust me, it is not my intention to become homeless or depend on charity, whether corporate or the charity of family. But I do not look down upon those that are there. You say that they have the same means to lead a normal life, just as you do. Well, how do you know? Perhaps they are mentally ill; perhaps they are drug addicted, or fell on hard times. Or hell, maybe they just like sitting on their butts collecting a paycheck and watching Oprah. You know what? It really is none of your business...nor mine. Yes, my money goes to support people on welfare. And it also goes to pay the salaries of the Armed Forces, Postal workers, and other goods and services. Taxes are not going anywhere, so what good is it to get this upset over something that you cannot change?

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I happen to be a very nice person (honest) I just happen to think about things more than the common man.

Common man, eh? In all of your thinking, ask yourself this:

What if I became homeless? What if I lost everything? What if I had to start at the bottom? Of course, you are so intelligent, none of that will happen to you, I'm sure. And while you are thinking about that, have you come up with any solutions to this problem? You know, since the common man has not?

[Spirittap]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

Well I for one am sick of this. Charity has to stop. It makes me sick.

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I happen to be a very nice person (honest) I just happen to think about things more than the common man.

lol I'm sorry, but you aren't coming off as a "very nice person", quite the opposite.

[Dan.Linehan]

I'm with Akashic on this one, charity frequently does more harm than good. The last thing you want is a lazy, entitled, obese welfare centric country.

Look at this terrible slum in New Orleans with its hardwood floors and 60 inch TV - this lady has been on public welfare for 15 out of the last 16 years.

Its great for the government to have some social services like mentoring, crisis intervention shelters, treatment for the mentally ill or disabled. But why provide handouts beyond that?

[Spiritual]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I happen to be a very nice person (honest) I just happen to think about things more than the common man.

Don't flatter your ego so much.... It reminds me of what Steve once said, like 90% of the population considers him/herself smarter than the average person.

You said you didn't see any right arguments, makes me wonder where the hell have you been looking? Your subjective reality seems to be quite selective in reading....

I'm not the type of guy that comes shouting to young people, "just wait until your older, then you'll get it!". Nor do I believe someone should be a certain age to be able to usefully discuss about a subject. I myself am considered on of the younger ones, but I do disagree about a lot of subjects with the "grown ups" (even though I'm legally grown up aswell).

Your point of view about this subject becomes a little bit unstable. You are like 16 if I remember correctly. This means you are probably living with your parents, where you parents pay for your stuff and your internet connection. Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are living on your own dependance already and then I can only say, good for you and applaud you!

But if I can generalize properly, you are living of your parents money, while maybe you have a part-time job that gives you money you can spend on personal items. Now tell me, is the money you receive from your parents not a form of charity aswell?

I am not a big fan of charity either, I don't like the lazy bums who don't take responsibility for their own life. But I do believe in certain situations with certain people charity has a required function. Since when are we not giving people the chance to fail anymore? Did you do everything in your life the correct way? Did you never make mistakes?

It's all about the attitude from the people who get charity, it's a gray area, you can not generalize it! If people want to profit from others generosity, I say drop 'em. If people really want to get back on their feet, I say, give 'em all you can spare!