Is humanity crap?

[DayOne]

So today I'm in the pub, I'm walking to the bar and some drunk chav is walking along with his mate who's complaining about someone. I assume that it can't be me as I haven't done anything. Then, one of them asks me "are you going to the toilet?", I assume he wants to know where they are and so direct him. He replies "are you going?" I said "no, I'm going to the bar." He replies, "you're bloody lucky then" while his mate practically drags him away. I'd not spoken to anyone other than my friends and thereofre had done nothing to offend anybody.

The other day I was walking into town, a bus was driving along the road towards me so I stood at the lights waiting for it to pass so that I could cross the road. However, it started slowing down, very very nearly to a complete halt. The lights must have changed, I thought, and so started moving to cross the road. At that point the driver beeped loudly, accelerated, shouted out the window at me and gestured.

These are really, really, REALLY, meaningless examples compared to the actually serious things going on in the world, but my point is that I honestly doubt whether the majority of people would fit what I call "decent", "intelligent", "friendly", "kind", etc. I'm really not sure. I'm at university and so most of the people I meet are reasonably intelligent but I'm honestly beginning to think that this gives me a slanted view of what the human race is like.

Are the majority of people idiots?

[Winston]

Thinking about this confused me for a long time. On the one hand I would see that certain people seem to be utterly useless, like empty vessels merely taking up space. One the other hand I saw people who could express great kindness and who seemed to be filled with purpose and a drive.
I realized that this is because deep within every person there lies extraordinary potential, but many people never take the time to dig up whats hidden inside. Human beings are meant to progress every single day they are on earth. They are meant to better themselves constantly. If they do this you will very quickly see remarkable beauty in them. However most people just fall into a routine. They do today the same thing they did yesterday and plan to do the same exact thing tomorrow. Living that kind of life results in the kind of behavior you have been witnessing.

[openeyes]

The vast majority of people I come across are fine. Quite a few are excellent. Maybe it's partly because I've spent most of the past few years in a college town, and I do feel very lucky to be where I am right now, but even when I've gone to supposedly bad areas, where friends were seeing a couple drive by shootings per week, virtually everyone has been kind to me. I remember walking on certain streets around Oakland, California and having prostitutes on the street show genuine concern for my well being, telling me what areas to avoid. Of course there have been times when someone has been "not so nice", but that's well under 1% of the people I come across.

[yossarian]

I find that even people who are at times big jerks and seem to me like totally worthless wastes of air, are at other times very compassionate and loving, if not necessarily to me.

To answer your question, I would say that humanity is not crap, just partially crap, and that that crap is there for a reason, but also that that crap gets washed away slowly by the good intentions of even the rottenest people.

[Fullcrum]

People aren't idiots.

They just are. They're humans, and you share a common humanity with them.

If I met someone like that I'd just see what level they're on...and that they're not happy. It's all ego. I wouldn't really worry about other people's reactions. In fact I don't really care about their reactions; to me, it's more about the core expression of the joy within me.

Stuff like what happened to you before goes down in a bar all the time. It does not matter. You may think people are crap. They're not. They just are.

[openeyes]

As fresh testimony of how I generally experience people as good, I just woke up from an excellent nap in the library, it's the night before the last day of exams, and next to my backpack I notice an unopened can of Red Bull

[Winston]

ah, perhaps the Christmas spirit

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by DayOne

The other day I was walking into town, a bus was driving along the road towards me so I stood at the lights waiting for it to pass so that I could cross the road. However, it started slowing down, very very nearly to a complete halt. The lights must have changed, I thought, and so started moving to cross the road. At that point the driver beeped loudly, accelerated, shouted out the window at me and gestured.

These are really, really, REALLY, meaningless examples compared to the actually serious things going on in the world, but my point is that I honestly doubt whether the majority of people would fit what I call "decent", "intelligent", "friendly", "kind", etc. I'm really not sure. I'm at university and so most of the people I meet are reasonably intelligent but I'm honestly beginning to think that this gives me a slanted view of what the human race is like.

Are the majority of people idiots?

That first example doesn't even count, since it doesn't seem like anything mean was said. You should live in Finland, then you'll never want to leave your apartment. I rarely did, but when I did, I usually came back feeling horrible, for some bitter, wretched stranger had scolded me or yelled at me for no reason at all. They will rarely speak to say something kind, but to yell at you for pushing the "stop" button on the bus after someone else has already pushed it, or for walking on the wrong side of the bicycle path, or any other non-excuse to bitch at you, they will indulge themselves. And often if you dare to do something nice, like hold open a door for someone or pick up something they dropped, they pretend not to notice or see you so they don't have to thank you.

ahhhh I'm not there anymore

[Mags]

I find that people live up to my expectations of them.

On those days that I walk around feeling like humanity is crap, then that's exactly what I find. On those days that I expect to interact with everyone's higher selves (the core part of them that expresses love and compassion), then that's exactly what happens.

[m18pak]

Most people are nice enough to somebody.

Even Hitler was nice to his mistress Eva Braun.

The thing I've realised is that you should really just give up judging the morality of people based on their behavior towards you, because if someone views you as a bad/worthless/inferior person then he'll treat you accordingly even if he's otherwise a very kindhearted person, and if someone views you as a good/worthwhile/superior person then he'll do the same even if he's otherwise quite a cruel and cold-hearted person.

A KKK member might have no qualms about lynching a ****** or cutting off his genitals and watching him bleed to death, yet be a loving husband and a devoted family man.

A Roman official might have blithely enjoyed the spectacle of a lion tearing a helpless slave to bloody shreds of meat and the sound of his screaming, and still be a honest and judicious judge who always tries to settle any dispute fairly.

It's how a man behaves towards those he regards as being "bad" that shows his true nature.

THE CHARACTER OF A PERSON IS REVEALED IN HOW HE TREATS HIS INFERIORS.

Even demons are gracious hosts when visited by the Devil.

PS. I used the N word for effect, and did not intend any racism or offense.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by m18pak

The thing I've realised is that you should really just give up judging the morality of people based on their behavior towards you,

That's a great and false presumption, that I am judging people based only on how they treat me, which would be really arrogant, selfish and unjust.

The only decisive part I play in it is that I watch how people behave and treat each other, including myself, and I see them behaving in ways and doing things I could never even think of doing, let alone actually do. I compare them to what I know - myself and my heart. Essentially you put yourself in their shoes and you just want to hit yourself in the head in disbelief that they could do such a thing, and the only thing left to conclude is that you are not the same species.

The rest of the examples listed are totally irrelevent. Those people would not fit into the "humane" category, just because they are nice to a select few. It boils down to what a person is capable of doing overall, when he has no selfish interest or personal agenda involved, not whether or not there is someone somewhere he is being nice to for whatever reason.

[JSB]

Originally Posted by m18pak

Most people are nice enough to somebody.

Even Hitler was nice to his mistress Eva Braun.

The thing I've realised is that you should really just give up judging the morality of people based on their behavior towards you, because if someone views you as a bad/worthless/inferior person then he'll treat you accordingly even if he's otherwise a very kindhearted person, and if someone views you as a good/worthwhile/superior person then he'll do the same even if he's otherwise quite a cruel and cold-hearted person.

A KKK member might have no qualms about lynching a ****** or cutting off his genitals and watching him bleed to death, yet be a loving husband and a devoted family man.

A Roman official might have blithely enjoyed the spectacle of a lion tearing a helpless slave to bloody shreds of meat and the sound of his screaming, and still be a honest and judicious judge who always tries to settle any dispute fairly.

It's how a man behaves towards those he regards as being "bad" that shows his true nature.

THE CHARACTER OF A PERSON IS REVEALED IN HOW HE TREATS HIS INFERIORS.

Even demons are gracious hosts when visited by the Devil.

PS. I used the N word for effect, and did not intend any racism or offense.

Very true.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by Mags

I find that people live up to my expectations of them.

On those days that I walk around feeling like humanity is crap, then that's exactly what I find. On those days that I expect to interact with everyone's higher selves (the core part of them that expresses love and compassion), then that's exactly what happens.

I agree with Mags~ when my mood is down I see examples of why the world sucks everywhere, but when I am happy and laid back feeling (which luckily, is most of the time!) , people are generally great!

The other thing though, is that I think generally, people are under a greater amount of stress than ever before. We are bombarded constantly with bad news if we don't guard ourselves from it. That amount of stress causes people to behave badly.

[cdn2wheeler]

Originally Posted by Honeywith4bees

I agree with Mags~ when my mood is down I see examples of why the world sucks everywhere, but when I am happy and laid back feeling (which luckily, is most of the time!) , people are generally great!

I believe in what I see
I believe in what I hear
I believe that what I'm feeling
Changes how the world appears

Neil Peart, Totem, 1996.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Mags

I find that people live up to my expectations of them.

On those days that I walk around feeling like humanity is crap, then that's exactly what I find. On those days that I expect to interact with everyone's higher selves (the core part of them that expresses love and compassion), then that's exactly what happens.

Right-o!

If you find yourself complaining about the crappiness of humanity, remember that you are only looking in the mirror.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Angela

Right-o!

If you find yourself complaining about the crappiness of humanity, remember that you are only looking in the mirror.

And yet 7 months ago I was surrounded by miserable, bitter, wretched and closed-off people, whereas today I am living surrounded by nice, open, friendly and exceedingly helpful people (I even like watching them help each other, it amazes me ) - because I changed countries.

[Angela]

hmmmm.... I know loving, friendly, creative people who live in Finland, and there are several such people who participate right here in these forums. It's very easy to see the beauty of these people. I've never met or spoken online with anyone from Finland who meets your grim description, Bliss Sage.

[InterfaceLeader]

Originally Posted by DayOne

I'm at university and so most of the people I meet are reasonably intelligent but I'm honestly beginning to think that this gives me a slanted view of what the human race is like.

Are the majority of people idiots?

No. The majority of people didn't have your luck. You were born into a reasonably safe, secure country, into a family or circumstance that allowed you to take advantage of a state-funded education and now you are lucky enough to have made it to university without any major hitches.

Many many people have suffered abuse, have lost friends and family, have been impoverished, have suffered undiagnosed learning disabilities, have been stopped from following their dreams by cynical parents or teachers. Many many people work crap jobs for little money. Many many people are stressed, depressed and anxious.

Both examples you have cited you know nothing about why the person chose to act that way. You know nothing about that person at all, apart from how they behaved during ten minutes out of one day.

Example: I have a friend who was a soldier in Iraq. He was blown up, lost a lung, and now suffers severe PTSD. He occasionally gets drunk - which is foolish, but understandable - and when he does he becomes paranoid and assumes other people are out to attack him. He may verbally assault them or challenge them. Does this make him a bad person? Does it make him an idiot? No.

Rather than feeling superior, realise you are lucky. Be polite, smile, believe the best of other people. They will frequently reward you for it. Most people are fundamentally good, and most people are fundamentally friendly. If they are attacking you, it's because they are insecure, and there must be a reason WHY they are insecure. That doesn't make them an idiot.

[Honeywith4bees]

Originally Posted by cdn2wheeler

I believe in what I see
I believe in what I hear
I believe that what I'm feeling
Changes how the world appears

Neil Peart, Totem, 1996.

I think I'm going to have to dig out my old Rush albums! I used to just like the music, I never realized how accurate and inspiring the lyrics where. . .

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Angela

hmmmm.... I know loving, friendly, creative people who live in Finland, and there are several such people who participate right here in these forums. It's very easy to see the beauty of these people. I've never met or spoken online with anyone from Finland who meets your grim description, Bliss Sage.

With all due respect, how can you possibly compare meeting people on a forum/over the Internet with years of living among a people?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

With all due respect, how can you possibly compare meeting people on a forum/over the Internet with years of living among a people?

I know a few "real" people in Finland, too; not just virtual ones!

You characterize the entire nation of people in Finland as a pretty grim lot, and my post is meant to show that you generalize most unfairly. I love the Finns! and don't like to hear them (or any other geographic or ethnic group, for that matter) denigrated. Your experience is your experience, but what you say is not The Truth about the Finnish.

I reckon the same goes for "humanity" -- we are, after all, a geographic group! And although we contain crap, that doesn't mean we are crap. People tend to find what they're looking for, and whether you're looking for crap or sugar & spice, you will find it.

[Rose of Cairo]

DayOne, maybe this guy in the pub was complaining about someone who vomited on the floor in the toilet, he found that disgusting so he told you that you were lucky not to see that? And the bus maybe slowed down because an old lady was asking the driver something and he slowed down to listen to her? Maybe when he saw you crossing the street without any right to do so, he shouted at you because of being concerned by your dangerous behaviour?

My point is, you don't know why they behaved this way, there can be a positive explanation too, so why assume worst case?

I would say, like attracts like and you harvest what you seed. So if you find other people stupid and unpleasant, you need to work on being more intelligent and kind yourself. Blaming others and calling them idiots is neither intelligent nor kind

[DayInTheLife]

Originally Posted by DayOne

I honestly doubt whether the majority of people would fit what I call "decent", "intelligent", "friendly", "kind", etc. I'm really not sure. I'm at university and so most of the people I meet are reasonably intelligent but I'm honestly beginning to think that this gives me a slanted view of what the human race is like.

Are the majority of people idiots?

Those two encounters you describe represent only a minuscule fraction of those people's lives, yet it sounds like you believe that's enough evidence to decide they are unfriendly or unintelligent people.

Are you saying you've never been out of line? You've never been frustrated and got mad at someone in traffic when they didn't really do anything wrong? You've never been drunk and possibly offended someone?

Would it make sense for that person to conclude that you are therefore nothing more than an unintelligent goon? That five or ten random seconds of your behavior is a reliable indicator of your worth as a person?

If you have never done anything like that, then congratulations; you are perfect, and yes, the rest of us are idiots.

There is good and bad in everybody. There is kindness and rudeness in everybody. There is tolerance and intolerance in everybody. Chance determines which parts we see, and of whom.

So many times I have judged people upon meeting them, only to realize later that I was way off base, that there is much more to EVERYONE than a first impression could possibly assess.

It is impossible to determine who someone is after only encountering them once or twice. You are only getting a tiny snapshot. You know snapshots are; sometimes the picture is taken at the wrong second and you end up looking drunk or sad or psychotic. Somebody who never saw you again would only have that one image of you. Hopefully they aren't so foolish as to think they know anything about you.

Every time you withhold judgment, the