| | |||||||
| Character & Contribution Values, integrity, finding your purpose, living your purpose, serving the greater good, making a difference, changing the world, charity, polarity, lightworkers, darkworkers |
|
Welcome to the Personal Development for Smart People Forums, the place for lively, intelligent discussion of all personal growth issues -- physical, mental, financial, social, emotional, spiritual, and more. You're currently viewing as a guest, which gives you limited read-only access. By joining our free community, you'll be able to post your own messages, access many members-only features, see the new messages posted since your last visit, and of course remove this header message. Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please join today. If you arrived here from a search engine, you may want to explore the main site first, which includes hundreds of deep and insightful articles on a variety of personal development topics. |
| | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
| | #1 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 21
|
So today I'm in the pub, I'm walking to the bar and some drunk chav is walking along with his mate who's complaining about someone. I assume that it can't be me as I haven't done anything. Then, one of them asks me "are you going to the toilet?", I assume he wants to know where they are and so direct him. He replies "are you going?" I said "no, I'm going to the bar." He replies, "you're bloody lucky then" while his mate practically drags him away. I'd not spoken to anyone other than my friends and thereofre had done nothing to offend anybody. The other day I was walking into town, a bus was driving along the road towards me so I stood at the lights waiting for it to pass so that I could cross the road. However, it started slowing down, very very nearly to a complete halt. The lights must have changed, I thought, and so started moving to cross the road. At that point the driver beeped loudly, accelerated, shouted out the window at me and gestured. These are really, really, REALLY, meaningless examples compared to the actually serious things going on in the world, but my point is that I honestly doubt whether the majority of people would fit what I call "decent", "intelligent", "friendly", "kind", etc. I'm really not sure. I'm at university and so most of the people I meet are reasonably intelligent but I'm honestly beginning to think that this gives me a slanted view of what the human race is like. Are the majority of people idiots? |
| | |
| | #2 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 39
|
Thinking about this confused me for a long time. On the one hand I would see that certain people seem to be utterly useless, like empty vessels merely taking up space. One the other hand I saw people who could express great kindness and who seemed to be filled with purpose and a drive. I realized that this is because deep within every person there lies extraordinary potential, but many people never take the time to dig up whats hidden inside. Human beings are meant to progress every single day they are on earth. They are meant to better themselves constantly. If they do this you will very quickly see remarkable beauty in them. However most people just fall into a routine. They do today the same thing they did yesterday and plan to do the same exact thing tomorrow. Living that kind of life results in the kind of behavior you have been witnessing. |
| | |
| | #3 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,209
|
The vast majority of people I come across are fine. Quite a few are excellent. Maybe it's partly because I've spent most of the past few years in a college town, and I do feel very lucky to be where I am right now, but even when I've gone to supposedly bad areas, where friends were seeing a couple drive by shootings per week, virtually everyone has been kind to me. I remember walking on certain streets around Oakland, California and having prostitutes on the street show genuine concern for my well being, telling me what areas to avoid. Of course there have been times when someone has been "not so nice", but that's well under 1% of the people I come across.
|
| | |
| | #4 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 851
|
I find that even people who are at times big jerks and seem to me like totally worthless wastes of air, are at other times very compassionate and loving, if not necessarily to me. To answer your question, I would say that humanity is not crap, just partially crap, and that that crap is there for a reason, but also that that crap gets washed away slowly by the good intentions of even the rottenest people. |
| | |
| | #5 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,083
|
People aren't idiots. They just are. They're humans, and you share a common humanity with them. If I met someone like that I'd just see what level they're on...and that they're not happy. It's all ego. I wouldn't really worry about other people's reactions. In fact I don't really care about their reactions; to me, it's more about the core expression of the joy within me. Stuff like what happened to you before goes down in a bar all the time. It does not matter. You may think people are crap. They're not. They just are. |
| | |
| | #6 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,209
|
As fresh testimony of how I generally experience people as good, I just woke up from an excellent nap in the library, it's the night before the last day of exams, and next to my backpack I notice an unopened can of Red Bull |
| | |
| | #8 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC
Posts: 405
| Quote:
ahhhh | |
| | |
| | #9 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 263
|
I find that people live up to my expectations of them. On those days that I walk around feeling like humanity is crap, then that's exactly what I find. On those days that I expect to interact with everyone's higher selves (the core part of them that expresses love and compassion), then that's exactly what happens.
__________________ Woo-Woo Wisdom |
| | |
| | #10 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 278
|
Most people are nice enough to somebody. Even Hitler was nice to his mistress Eva Braun. The thing I've realised is that you should really just give up judging the morality of people based on their behavior towards you, because if someone views you as a bad/worthless/inferior person then he'll treat you accordingly even if he's otherwise a very kindhearted person, and if someone views you as a good/worthwhile/superior person then he'll do the same even if he's otherwise quite a cruel and cold-hearted person. A KKK member might have no qualms about lynching a ****** or cutting off his genitals and watching him bleed to death, yet be a loving husband and a devoted family man. A Roman official might have blithely enjoyed the spectacle of a lion tearing a helpless slave to bloody shreds of meat and the sound of his screaming, and still be a honest and judicious judge who always tries to settle any dispute fairly. It's how a man behaves towards those he regards as being "bad" that shows his true nature. THE CHARACTER OF A PERSON IS REVEALED IN HOW HE TREATS HIS INFERIORS. Even demons are gracious hosts when visited by the Devil. PS. I used the N word for effect, and did not intend any racism or offense.
__________________ I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and behold, all is vanity and a striving after wind. -Ecclesiastes, 1:14 |
| | |
| | #11 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC
Posts: 405
| Quote:
The only decisive part I play in it is that I watch how people behave and treat each other, including myself, and I see them behaving in ways and doing things I could never even think of doing, let alone actually do. I compare them to what I know - myself and my heart. Essentially you put yourself in their shoes and you just want to hit yourself in the head in disbelief that they could do such a thing, and the only thing left to conclude is that you are not the same species. The rest of the examples listed are totally irrelevent. Those people would not fit into the "humane" category, just because they are nice to a select few. It boils down to what a person is capable of doing overall, when he has no selfish interest or personal agenda involved, not whether or not there is someone somewhere he is being nice to for whatever reason. | |
| | |
| | #12 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 443
| Quote:
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln | |
| | |
| | #13 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 516
| Quote:
The other thing though, is that I think generally, people are under a greater amount of stress than ever before. We are bombarded constantly with bad news if we don't guard ourselves from it. That amount of stress causes people to behave badly. | |
| | |
| | #14 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,016
| Quote:
I believe in what I hear I believe that what I'm feeling Changes how the world appears Neil Peart, Totem, 1996.
__________________ LTPP | |
| | |
| | #15 (permalink) | |
| Legendary Member | Quote:
If you find yourself complaining about the crappiness of humanity, remember that you are only looking in the mirror. | |
| | |
| | #16 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC
Posts: 405
| Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #17 (permalink) |
| Legendary Member |
hmmmm.... I know loving, friendly, creative people who live in Finland, and there are several such people who participate right here in these forums. It's very easy to see the beauty of these people. I've never met or spoken online with anyone from Finland who meets your grim description, Bliss Sage.
|
| | |
| | #18 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Midlands
Posts: 305
| Quote:
Many many people have suffered abuse, have lost friends and family, have been impoverished, have suffered undiagnosed learning disabilities, have been stopped from following their dreams by cynical parents or teachers. Many many people work crap jobs for little money. Many many people are stressed, depressed and anxious. Both examples you have cited you know nothing about why the person chose to act that way. You know nothing about that person at all, apart from how they behaved during ten minutes out of one day. Example: I have a friend who was a soldier in Iraq. He was blown up, lost a lung, and now suffers severe PTSD. He occasionally gets drunk - which is foolish, but understandable - and when he does he becomes paranoid and assumes other people are out to attack him. He may verbally assault them or challenge them. Does this make him a bad person? Does it make him an idiot? No. Rather than feeling superior, realise you are lucky. Be polite, smile, believe the best of other people. They will frequently reward you for it. Most people are fundamentally good, and most people are fundamentally friendly. If they are attacking you, it's because they are insecure, and there must be a reason WHY they are insecure. That doesn't make them an idiot. | |
| | |
| | #20 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NYC
Posts: 405
| Quote:
| |
| | |
| | #21 (permalink) | |
| Legendary Member | Quote:
You characterize the entire nation of people in Finland as a pretty grim lot, and my post is meant to show that you generalize most unfairly. I love the Finns! and don't like to hear them (or any other geographic or ethnic group, for that matter) denigrated. Your experience is your experience, but what you say is not The Truth about the Finnish. I reckon the same goes for "humanity" -- we are, after all, a geographic group! And although we contain crap, that doesn't mean we are crap. People tend to find what they're looking for, and whether you're looking for crap or sugar & spice, you will find it. | |
| | |
| | #22 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: France now and Norway in seven days!
Posts: 2,928
|
DayOne, maybe this guy in the pub was complaining about someone who vomited on the floor in the toilet, he found that disgusting so he told you that you were lucky not to see that? And the bus maybe slowed down because an old lady was asking the driver something and he slowed down to listen to her? Maybe when he saw you crossing the street without any right to do so, he shouted at you because of being concerned by your dangerous behaviour? My point is, you don't know why they behaved this way, there can be a positive explanation too, so why assume worst case? I would say, like attracts like and you harvest what you seed. So if you find other people stupid and unpleasant, you need to work on being more intelligent and kind yourself. Blaming others and calling them idiots is neither intelligent nor kind |
| | |
| | #23 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 252
| Quote:
Are you saying you've never been out of line? You've never been frustrated and got mad at someone in traffic when they didn't really do anything wrong? You've never been drunk and possibly offended someone? Would it make sense for that person to conclude that you are therefore nothing more than an unintelligent goon? That five or ten random seconds of your behavior is a reliable indicator of your worth as a person? If you have never done anything like that, then congratulations; you are perfect, and yes, the rest of us are idiots. There is good and bad in everybody. There is kindness and rudeness in everybody. There is tolerance and intolerance in everybody. Chance determines which parts we see, and of whom. So many times I have judged people upon meeting them, only to realize later that I was way off base, that there is much more to EVERYONE than a first impression could possibly assess. It is impossible to determine who someone is after only encountering them once or twice. You are only getting a tiny snapshot. You know snapshots are; sometimes the picture is taken at the wrong second and you end up looking drunk or sad or psychotic. Somebody who never saw you again would only have that one image of you. Hopefully they aren't so foolish as to think they know anything about you. Every time you withhold judgment, the world becomes a better place. Honestly. You'll perceive an improvement in everyone. When you encounter bad behavior, remind yourself that there is good behavior in that person too. | |
| | |
| | #24 (permalink) | |
| Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 21
| Quote:
And you may have misunderstood. But I think someone threatening to beat you up for doing absolutely nothing does constitute "something bad being said". | |
| | |
| | #25 (permalink) | ||
| Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 21
| Quote:
I have experienced many of those things. I was not born into a very nice place at all, it was in fact quite a horrible place, I was extremely poor growing up and still do not have much money, I therefore currently work in one of the crap jobs for little money that you mention, I am currently very stressed and depressed. Quote:
I think that sometimes you can judge a person very quickly. For instance, moving on to a more serious example (rather than the two minor recent examples that I gave) I was mugged and beaten up a year or two ago. I'd done nothing wrong, they just wanted to steal mobile phones. The person that did that is worthless. Yes they were probably poor. Yes, they probably didn't get a great education. Yes, that might have led them to do drugs or be homeless (I doubt that last bit in this case as they had a car, but that's beside the point). But NOTHING would make me do that to someone. Nothing. Therefore I can make that judgement about them very quickly. The only exceptions that I can think of is if they were mentally ill. Either naturally, accidentally or through abuse. However, the vast majority of these people do not have that 'excuse'. My point is that things like this happen too often, violence and stupidity in the world is far too wide-spread for each of the culprits to have a reasonable excuse, if such a thing does indeed exist. Leading to the conclusion that a lot of these people are indeed worthless idiots. My question is how many of them are there? How wide-spread is it? To what extent, or what proportion of humanity, is....crap...? | ||
| | |
| | #26 (permalink) | |
| Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 21
| Quote:
he said "are you going to the toilet?" [I heard what he said, heard he was angry before and had a good idea why he was talking to me] but replied "toilet?...it's just down the stairs there mate" with a smile. (not in a sarcastic or unpleasant way in case that's how it seems when typed) Then he was dragged out of the pub by his mate whilst threatening to beat me up. I AM very kind, and sorry for sounding arrogant but like most (maybe even everyone) here, I'm intelligent too. I don't think "blaming others" is a problem, when it WAS their fault. And in some cases it undeniably is. And if I label someone an idiot then it is only because they have acted like one. I get on very well with the majority of people I meet, because I am friendly, welcoming and kind to them. Some people that I meet, despite this, are idiots. That is not my fault and me changing would not change them. | |
| | |
| | #27 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: France now and Norway in seven days!
Posts: 2,928
| Quote:
The way someone behaves is not what this person IS. You can behave like an idiot for two minutes without being an idiot. Or is it enough for you that these people behaved like idiots for two minutes in their life to identify them with certainty as idiots? Well then, everybody on Earth is an idiot. Or did you ever meet someone who never ever in his entire life behaved like an idiot for two minutes? Or is it enough to behave stupidly for two minutes every day? But you saw these people only for two minutes in their entire life, how do you know how they behaved all the other days? Where do you draw the line? What is being an idiot in the first place? Could you define it precisely? When I say "you harvest what you seed", I don't mean that your behaviour in this very moment, in the pub, or on the street, instantaneously caused these people to behave this way. I meant that your general attitude towards life and people eventually tends to attract such people and behaviours into your life. Even if in that precise moment, you did not do anything "wrong". With attitude, I don't mean only what you do, but also what you think and how you feel. For example, you said you grew up in a horrible place and already were beaten up. Maybe you think now that the world is an insecure place, and you're scared of aggressive people? So you attract aggressive people threatening you. Or maybe you feel aggressive yourself inside, consciously or subconscioulsy? But you don't express this aggressivity, so you attract aggressive situations. How do you attract this? Some would say it's your "vibes" that attract things into your life, some would say it's just your way of being, behaving and looking that lets people react in a particular way to you. Some would say it's just your focus: what you expect to see, you will notice much more than what does not match your beliefs. It doesn't matter. What counts is: what you focus on will expand in your life. Since you seem to have lived through a lot of crap in your life, I guess you focus on negative things, and therefore attract them. Listen to what you're saying in this thread: "these people have no excuse. They're worthless. It's their fault." I'm sure you're a kind (and intelligent) person. But what you're thinking about people isn't kind at all. You're being very harsh! No human being (and no non-human being either) deserves it to be called "worthless"! You're mercilessly judging others (and yourself too, I bet). So tell me, why do you expect life, or other people, to treat you any wee bit better than you treat yourself, and them? What would be very interesting for you would be to read Ask and it is Given. That's a fantastic book edit: I'm sorry you're feeling stressed and depressed. Violence also pisses me off. But I think pointing our finger at others and giving them the fault is not a solution. I chose to respond with becoming more positive, loving and compassionate myself, and sending out more harmonious vibes. Well, let's say, I try to do so. I hope that my little vibes will get stronger with time and practice, meet those of others and get bigger and in the end make a significant change. I'm sure you would really be much happier if you learned to love yourself unconditionally, no matter what your behaviour is, cause you are not your behaviour. Be kind to yourself Last edited by Rose of Cairo; 12-15-2007 at 03:41 AM. | |
| | |
| | #28 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 252
| Quote:
Behavior does not need to be justifiable or ethical for you to withhold your judgment. Coming to a verdict about another person`s worth doesn`t really do you much good, believe it or not. It`s tempting (compulsive even) to do so, because it justifies our own actions; it affirms that we are worth something. There is a danger in judgment though... you are forming beliefs that will serve as your reality until you question them. Strange and wonderful things happen when you refuse to trust that reaction of condemnation you get when you witness someone acting in a way in which you disapprove. It`s not what you might expect. Don`t worry, their behavior won`t worsen just because you don`t get displeased. You`ll see a world that is not as bad as you believed it was. Judging is extremely habitual, but voluntary. There is little of value to be gained from it, and there is something to be gained by refraining that cannot be understood until you do. That`s all I`m trying to say. By the sounds of it, you`ve made up your mind already though; you`ve got a rebuttal for every differing viewpoint in this thread. Expect more of the same. Argue for your limitations, and they`re yours. Quote:
If you have concluded that many people are worthless and take away from your experience in life, then that`s what you`ll encounter. | ||
| | |
| | #29 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,083
|
Hey, I think you should read this, kinda deals with your type of situation. Real Social Dynamics Blog: Manifesting Positivity VS Standing Your Ground Basically the guy gets hated on and tooled three times in a five minute time-span. He wonders why this happened. He used to be a negative person but then made the effort to become more positive and was successful. This is about how his positivity affected him such that he had a little target-sign on his forehead saying "I'm weak," and how he fixed it. Hope you find it helpful |
| | |
| Bookmarks |
« Previous Thread
|
Next Thread »
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
| |
| | ||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Why Marketing promotes the Evolution of Humanity! | Enoch Tan | Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness | 1 | 12-13-2007 08:22 AM |
| Holy Crap I Can't Keep Up | impaul99 | Intention-Manifestation | 9 | 10-24-2007 02:35 AM |
| Getting rid of all this extra crap, clutter like Oprah says | CoolStuff | Personal Effectiveness | 5 | 10-22-2007 06:55 AM |
| The Ascent of Humanity | Erki | Spirituality, Consciousness, & Awareness | 6 | 08-23-2007 07:26 PM |
| “High school is the best 4 years of your life” Bull crap! | ken nubo | Social & Relationships | 33 | 05-14-2007 05:26 AM |
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:51 AM.






