The Attributes of a Hero

[Matt Langdon]

I'm working on creating something of a Gallery of Heroes at my website, The Hero Workshop. I am describing as many heroes as I can with a few paragraphs and then noting which heroic attributes they have.

I'd like to know what attributes you think should be included. I've got 11 thus far.

Achievement, Caring, Courage, Faith, Humility, Integrity, Perseverance, Selflessness, Tolerance, Vision, and Wisdom.

What else would you add?

[Klamachpin]

Heroic attributes in themselves are meaningless - what makes a hero so great is that they not only promote their virtues, but live them out as well, regardless of the consequences. That is the quality that so few of us can honestly match.

[Alvin]

Hi Matt

Would you consider Bruce Lee a hero?

In my Bruce Lee article I revealed how he had a back injury which put him in bed for 3 months, and which the doctors told him he'd never do martial arts again.

He bounced back to become the legend we all know and admire. I guess that's perseverance for you.

[Matt Langdon]

Bruce Lee definitely qualifies. I think he has a high level of achievement as well.

Klamachpin - I'm not sure I agree with you there. I mean, I agree totally that the living of the values is what's most important, but surely you need to be able to identify what those values are.

[Milo Riano]

Originally Posted by Klamachpin

Heroic attributes in themselves are meaningless - what makes a hero so great is that they not only promote their virtues, but live them out as well, regardless of the consequences. That is the quality that so few of us can honestly match.

I disagree with this too Matt. Great or not great, a hero still becomes a hero because of attribues that people get inspiration from. Living it out regardless of the consequences is not a constant and people do make mistakes.

[Wanderer]

Attribute you missed from your list - invisibility?

Seriously though I think a hero needs continue to try and achieve no matter what the odds. E.G. If I saw a woman been attacked in the street by a man, I would try and stop it, as would a hero. If I saw a woman been attacked in the street by 50 men all with swords and guns a hero would try and stop it, me, I dont really know.
Also a hero doesnt need to succeed. If the above hero is a master in martial arts, has a bat cape and can turn invisible, fighting that one person won't be majorly difficult, but if the person that tries to stop it is old fairly infirm and only has one leg for example, they may well fail, but that doesnt make them any less heroic.

We sing the praises of hero's who succeed but many unsung hero's are just as heroic or even more so, because they try where they have less chance of success

Just my 2 cents
W

[smallstar]

Acting in a way that gets you killed 99% of the time may be considered heroism, but I'd rather consider it foolishness. I'd still probably do like that in some situations (direct threat against own child etc), but that would be because I've been "programmed" so, not because of any conscious thoughts.

Think of it that way: you die, and instantly lose all your potential. All good deeds you would be able to do cannot be done any more. Ask your widow and orphans which one they like more - a dead hero or a living husband and father. Sometimes, it takes even more heroism to accept defeat and to live to fight another day than to rush to a glorious death.

I'm all against absolute rules in behavior anyway. They can only lead to dogmatism and idiotic "heroes" chanting "My country - right of wrong" and similar stupidities.

[Wanderer]

But death is only the next step in our journey.

'Some people will tell you it is better to run and hide to live and fight another day, but they are wrong. A coward dies everytime they run away. None of us live forever, better by far then to live well'

Would you be able to look at yourself in the mirror and be proud if you didnt try to help a poor person been brutally attacked?

Absolute rule of behaviour - My signature is an absolute rule of behaviour - how would that cause problems? If everyone followed it as far as I can see the world would be a much nicer place

[Ali]

How about confidence Matt? its seems that people think somebody is doing something crazy if for example he/she sacrifices something for a cause. The hero does something that others wouldn't do just to save the day because he/she believes that it could save the day and feel confident enough to jump into such an action to end the problem.

Thanks

Ali

[songwriter]

QUEEN-The Hero
"So you feel that you ain't nobody
Always needed to be somebody
Put your feet on the ground
Put your hand on your heart
Lift your head to the stars
And the world's for your taking

So you feel it's the end of the story
Find it all pretty satisfactory
Well I tell you my friend
This might seem like the end
But the continuation
Is yours for the making

Yes you're a hero"

[smallstar]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

'Some people will tell you it is better to run and hide to live and fight another day, but they are wrong. A coward dies everytime they run away. None of us live forever, better by far then to live well'

This has its origin at military propaganda, which has the intention to lead people away to foreign lands to their heroic deaths instead of staying home, growing cabbage, and fathering healthy children.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Would you be able to look at yourself in the mirror and be proud if you didnt try to help a poor person been brutally attacked?

I once saw a situation like this in a tram. My friend practically blocked me from interfering, and I have to say I'm grateful for that. You should rather not let your pride or shame control yourself. My loyalty is to my loved ones, not to strangers.

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Absolute rule of behaviour - My signature is an absolute rule of behaviour - how would that cause problems? If everyone followed it as far as I can see the world would be a much nicer place

OK, you asked for it.

"Never violate a woman" - this causes you to live in a celibacy forever, since you can never be 100% completely sure of a woman's intentions, even if she says yes. Maybe she just wants you for your money, or for revenge.

"nor harm a child" - when said child first points an AK-47 at your face and then suddenly rests his arm, giving you time to react, what do you do?

"Do not lie, cheat" - when the thugs come for a stranger just arrived your house, do you have the courage to lie to them and save the stranger?

"or steal these things are for lesser men" - when was the last time you used the company internet for recreation, or "forgot" that a company pencil was in your pocket?

"Protect the weak against the evil strong." - why haven't you joined the Iraqi resistance already?

BTW, "everyone" following your rules is an absurd concept anyway and against the human nature. Even Communism would have worked if "everyone" had followed a certain set of rules - does that mean that Communism is a good idea?

[Wanderer]

I have nothing against staying home and growing cabbage, but if one was to stay home and grow cabbage whilst been a coward e.g. running away from the crows to find somewhere with less crows to grow cabbage that would just be sad. I didnt say go looking for trouble, I said it is right that if we find trouble we should attempt to stop it.

'My loyalty is to my loved ones, not to strangers.' However I am sure that you would appreciate the help of a stranger if you or your loved ones were attacked. You can see a fight and walk past with your head down, thats fine. But and maybe I judge you wrongly, if you saw an 7 year old girl been held down by two 30 year old men, while a third had his trousers down, you wouldnt walk away and pretend you hadnt seen. You know deep down that walking away would be wrong. And you would be ashamed of yourself, shame is their to help us see the right path, not to make us feel like ****. You feel shame when you have done something wrong and walking away is the wrong thing to do. You may be greatful for your friend preventing you from interfering now, but if you could and your friend could have prevented whatever happened then surely it would have been right for you to do so.

Never violate a woman can be seen as living in celibacy forever, if thats how you interpret it fine, I see it as never rape a woman, and taking it to a literacy extreme is fine, but thats not for me cheers (I like women too much).

If said child holds an AK-47 then is he really a child, again it depends on interpretaion, I would see never harm a child as never kill a child, and child I would see as an inncent, at age 17 someone is not an adult, and yet are still liable for their own actions, at age 3 they are not.

If said thugs come to your house, why can you either a) not be their or b) tell them they cannot have the stranger, as you are protecting him or c) call the police. As Im sure you know lying/cheating does not refer to a situation like this but to the situation where you say no, I didnt cheat on you last night honey (to your wife, when you did, which Im sure we will both agree is wrong)

I never said I was perfect but stealing is wrong, everyone knows this. This point is hardly worth debating unless you want to bring up the 'loaf of bread starving family' situation...

Protecting the weak against the evil strong, I will remember this if I ever see you 'the weak' been attacked by bad people 'the strong' and I will come to your aid. I am not going to get embroiled in the politics of the war in Iraq as I do not know enough, but as I said earlier, I believe you would try to defend the seven year old girl, in danger of been violated, harmed, and stolen from, which kind of proves my point. And if you wouldnt defend the girl, then I respectfully suggest you visit a psychiatrist.

As for everyone folling the rule, of course it is absurd, but so are the majority of your ideas for trying to discredit my code. Communism is of course a good idea, everyone been equal is a great idea, it just requires everyone to put the same effort into it.

If you think you can live happily without absolute codes of behaviour thats great, but if that involves you leaving dying men in the street, leaving young children to suffer and not helping those most in need, I think perhaps I will stick with my code. Perhaps it will lead me to an earlier death than I would otherwise have, but at least I will not have to answer in the future

'Why did you leave that little girl to die?'

[smallstar]

Wanderer - so I see that you agree to exceptions to your "absolute" codes yourself.

BTW, in my case, the question was "would you let the bum beat up the other bum", and my friend had to stop me from interfering. Another question was "who will give first aid to this injured bus accident victim". Of course no such question was asked, it took me about a second to leap for help, even if I have minimal first-aid training.

Philosophically, I have no problem of letting strangers die. I'm letting people die every day by not donating all my money to help people in the developing lands, and as hard as it is, I've come to accept that. When acting on instinct, it's of course impossible. Someone is still slower than the other one, and someone freezes completely.

Well, I ended up asked myself a question: "if you could, would you have this instinct of yours removed?" Strangely, the answer was still "no". Not because of strangers, but because of why this instinct has developed. If it was my own child (or anyone close enough to me) under attack, I'd be needing it, and for that reason only, I wouldn't give it away.

OK, you can call this an attribute of a hero if you want, and I'll even agree to it, at least until some point. But somewhere is that point where heroism stops and foolishness starts. Please, don't stand too much on the wrong side.

[Wanderer]

Ive read your post several times smallstar, to make sure I get it fully.
My absolute code still stands, it just depends on if your going to take it to literal extremes, the actions of the man whos code it is Druss was a fairly simple man but he used it to prevent him from being evil. He saw life as black and white, maybe thats harder to do in this day and age, yet I think it is still good code for me.

the question was "would you let the bum beat up the other bum", and my friend had to stop me from interfering.

Does this suggest that you wanted to get involved, if so why? Was it because you knew it was the right thing to do?

Maybe you are letting people die everyday, but they are not within your sphere of direct influence, people been attacked nearby are, and you would try and help them as best you can as you have already said, that is all any of us can do.

That instinct is their for a reason, and I hope when you have the opportunity to help someone you do so, because you know it is the right thing to do.

Im sure some would argue that what make hero's is their foolishness. Martin Luther King had a very very low chance of success against the years of previous rule. Lance Armstrong is a hero for many, and Im sure doctors worldwide said it was foolishness when he undertook the Tour de France again and again and again. Harry Potter a novice wizard is up against the greatest wizard of the age, and yet, he battles on rather than hiding, foolish some would say, yet he continues and why, because it is the right thing to do.

MLK died because of his belief, Harry Potter probably will die because of his foolishness, but one suceeded in changing the world, another will succeed in changing the world.

I will try and combat evil wherever I see it, so that I can look myself in the mirror and be proud, if you can't follow this path, or think it is wrong to do so thats fine too. But I think perhaps another attribute of a hero that needs adding to the list is 'continuing to struggle despite insurmountable seemingly impossible (some would say foolish) odds' but I cant quite turn it into a word, I dont think perseverance quite covers it.

Any Ideas?