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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/13/business/13short.html
__________________ Weird Business Ideas That Made Millions |
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McDonalds has on average a 300% employee turnover. Doesn't make it a bad business model |
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Having been part of mlm myself and then really studying it (its also what brought me into personal development) I have to come to the following conclusion, and I think anyone would agree: The reason mlm is given a bad rep, is because there is no one telling you what to do (and society is conditioned to be told what to do!). You are basically given all the freedom you want to go forth and reap the benefits of a mlm system IF YOU CHOOSE TO. However, many people 'unconciously' make the decision to get involved, or are excited about it the day they sign up but then everyday after that they lose more interest. And because they lack self initiative (they are waiting for someone to tell them what to do...) they develop the idea that mlm has scammed them and that it doesnt work... It only works for the people who work it! People expect too much from nothing. Another problem is that most people will listen to their broke friends advice that it isnt going to work and so they take on that belief and create it a reality. And now they have to go and create laws to protect this? I mean some companies were sued for making false claims, and so now every (smart) mlm company is already stating their turnover rate or income levels during the signup process. It is kind of ridiculous to have to make a law like this if you think about it, it is a bandaid to the real problem - that people need to wake up and smell the roses around them. I have met many people who are experiencing abundant success in all areas of their lives because of mlm. Last edited by tropicality; 11-13-2006 at 08:43 PM. |
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But I think we found some common ground there MLM is the McDonalds of wannabe entrepreneurs. I certainly wouldn't recommend working for the clown either.
__________________ Weird Business Ideas That Made Millions |
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One of the things most people don't realize is they have to LEARN how to do it and look for a good company to work for. They're razzled and dazzled by everyone screaming and shouting about hype and no substance. I'd say one of the greatest things about MLM is it's an opportunity to grow into a better, more well-rounded person (if you do MLM right). Every situation people go through have different circumstances. |
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People see other people having success and achieving financial freedom in Network Marketing and automatically think it is a piece of cake. The reality is that it is not - it does take real, hard work. However, the distinction is that if you are willing and do put in the sweat equity, you absolutely can get the results you want because you are in complete control Many just think they can go in, make a conservative effort, and expect their bank accounts to grow overnight and when it doesn't they scream "scam". The only scam is the one committed by the people who pull the sheets over their heads and think they can get microwave results without doing much. Another thing I crack up about is the people who equate Network Marketing to pyramids. If you have read Kiyosaki's books and in particular the book he co-authored with Trump called "Why We Want You to be Rich", there is a section in which both of them talk about Network Marketing and Kiyosaki lays out the typically corporate structure as being a pyramid. Think about it, one CEO at the top making huge money, with a few VPs under him making a pretty good wage, followed by upper management making a decent wage but less than the VPs. Then you have middle management, making less than upper management but more than the bottom of the pyramid, the worker bees. I absolutely love that comparison. |
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50% of companies fail in their first year too. 50% of the remainder fail in the second 50% in the third.. And so it does on. These people often lose tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, an MLMer in a genuine company would typicaly only lose 2-5 thousand if they were REALLY high spending and did nothing to earn anything back. Where are the people screaming scam about starting your own business? The benefit of MLM is also its down side, the low get in cost means people often lack the incentive to give it a good shot like they would if they put in 50k. It also means any loser can get in, scam a few people with an otherwise legit business and run for it. Those of you who have a multi tier affiliate program going on your web site are MLM ing under a different name. For me, MLM participation has been more about self development and meeting entrepreurial people. I made a bit of money, probably spent more though, but I consider it the best investment of my life. My non MLMer friends used to laugh at me when I talked about going into business. My MLMer friends not only encourage and support me, lots of them have invested with me in different ventures. My non MLMer friends just winge and complain about how hard done by they are. My MLMer friends talk about how good life is and how they can make it even better. I know without a doubt which group I prefer to hang out with. (on a side note MLMs do tend to attract an above average number of crazies) Kiyosaki was spot on about the corporate comparison. The biggest difference is that anyone can become a CEO quickly in an MLM if they work at it, regardless of race, age, colour, religion anything. It can be a LOT harder, if not impossible to do it in a normal company for some of those people.
__________________ *NEW*Rantcrunch.com Angry? Upset? Furious? - Just get it off your chest. Mami Yamazaki - A quest to get a date with a Japanese model Website Crunch - Making Website dreams happen for those who don't know how. Secret Scrolls - LoA & Life Coaching Blog |
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It also comes down to what organization you'e involved in. Some are built on selling a service, some are built on selling a product, and others are built more on developing a network with some sales thrown in. I think lumping every MLM/Network Marketing opportunity together is like lumping every college together. They don't all have the same professors, or offer the same degree, although their fields of study are usually somewhat similar. Someone mentioned that no one is there to help you in MLM's and I would contest that this isn't true. As someone currently involved in one, I would say the support is better than anything I've ever done. I agree that the fact that it's open to everyone is a key factor. Yes, McDonald's pays minimum wage, but they also have a hiring process. With many MLM's, for less than $100 you can start if you want to and then there is no pressure to perform.
__________________ Follow the path of a man moving from all active income to all passive income: http://objectsinthemirror.blogspot.com |
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I'm gonna be frank. I think this thread could use a lot more skepticism. You are handling a highly controversial system that is now widely considered a scam as a really positive experience. I'm not gonna go into detail about it. There is already enough information out there if you are willing to look: In pursuit of the almighty dollar - Consumer Alert - MSNBC.com I was in a public speaking class a year ago. After a guy gave a speech about owning your own business and he brought in energy drinks into class, I realized he was basically pitching quixtar, which he worked under. In response, I made a speech about the pitfalls of MLM. I researched it and I thought about it. The conclusion I came to was this: you can make a lot of money from MLM, mainly from convincing other people that they can make a lot of money from it as well. People who make the real money are: a) selling motivation tapes, seminars, and books to people below them b) using the pyramid system to get profit from lots of people on their downline. If you want to do MLM, fine. You can make money on it, but all you're really doing is selling overpriced products that are already on the market. I think Steve would agree the best part of owning a business is providing real value to people, not selling them things they don't need in a desparate effort to become rich. |
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All of the current and past success in my life I attribute a significant portion to the people and materials I studied during my MLM dabbles. I didn't make much profit in MLM but I made a lot of money outside it using what I learnt inside it, and through contacts with other entrepreneurs. I do kind of agree that MLM is the McDonalds of the entrepreneurs world. It's the place many start (and many finish I will agree). I won't try to say they haven't had any negative affects on some peoples lives, but I am glad they exist, for the positive effect they have had on mine. In the end, you get back what you put in. It works that way with everything in life.
__________________ *NEW*Rantcrunch.com Angry? Upset? Furious? - Just get it off your chest. Mami Yamazaki - A quest to get a date with a Japanese model Website Crunch - Making Website dreams happen for those who don't know how. Secret Scrolls - LoA & Life Coaching Blog |
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| I think it's the other way round: Most MLM companies tell their reps exactly what to do and what they shouldn't do. If you were a real entrepreneur with some common sense, you would not stay long with any MLM company. The best thing about MLM is that they introduce you to some basic success principles. Once you have learned them, you don't need that MLM company any more. Chances are, that company will be out of business by that time, anyway.
__________________ www.english-test.net |
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I just now wrote about MLM today, actually. Here's what I've had to say: Dirty Mechanism - Personal Development » Challenges and Powerful Potential With Network and Multi-Level Marketing I just got involved with Prepaid Legal myself. One thing I do stress with people is that there is no guarantee you can succeed in any MLM/network marketing company, and the majority of the people who attempt doing so will fail. It takes a massive amount of energy, and can sometimes give very little return. The biggest challenge is time - how can you utilize time in an MLM scheme to suit your best interests? You can certainly build your income, but how long will it take doing the things that they say will work? I have currently invested about a year's worth of expenses to attempt a MLM business. If, after a year, I cannot succeed, I will be faced with no other choice but to not only cancel my attempts as an associate of the company, but also to cancel the use of the product that the company provides. I've been at it now for about 2 weeks - and that 2 weeks has already been a difficult challenge. As many others here have already mentioned, I think there is one thing that some of these MLM companies are doing right, if nothing else - and that is teaching success principles. Many of these companies use systems that pound concepts of personal development related ideas into your brain. And, if people are smart enough to take the advice of these concepts, then there is no excuse for them throwing out $35,000 or however much they're spending purely on training material. That is ridiculous. You have to know when to quit. And another problem with a lot of these training materials is that people will often pursue only the training materials, and nothing else. People will become addicted to receiving positive motivation, but trapped into doing nothing about what they're being told. It's true that you cannot sit around and do nothing and expect to earn any money using MLM, or any business, for that matter. There is no reason you would ever have to lose more than you could afford if you're making intelligent decisions. Invest a portion of funds that you can afford and if after a period of time you do not succeed, cut your losses and move on. This is a standard business concept any individual in their right mind should know. |
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The comments in this thread are great. They remind us that in most cases, the biggest problem with networking marketing is not the systems, but network marketers who lack the initiative, continuing motivation and willingness to learn. That doesn't send an encouraging message to prospective downlines who are supposed to be motivated and teachable to qualify as hot prospects. I would recommend an insightful book on this subject by a successful mlm businessman: Network Marketers are Upset... New Book: "The Worst Things About Network Marketing Are the Network Marketers" Funny that although many people don't admit their primary motivation to get into mlm is self-improvement, this actually appears one of the greatest benefits. You can develop traits like self-confidence, determination, resilience, resourcefulness and ingenuity. No matter how long you're involved, or what you earn, transferable skills you develop help have potential to help you excel in all areas of your life. Last edited by Liara Covert; 02-26-2007 at 09:46 AM. |
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| I have been in several traditional business ventures in the last 20+ years and I am currently part of a MLM. Some similarities are: The more effort you put in the more return you get, training materials and seminars improve your motivation and performance and once established you can enjoy passive income. In both there is a lot of work upfront with little return. When the business is build there is a lot of return with little upfront work. The differences are quiet pronounced: Capital investment to start: A franchise: $15,000+ (+ Stock & Equipment) A business capable of passive income in 2-5 years $100,000+ (+ Stock, Equipment, Staff, Tax, Rent, Insurance, Legal, Advertising etc) MLM: ~$5,500 including twelve months supply of product, seminars, CD's and books. Training: Business Conferences +$1500 (+airfares USA) MLM +$125. Subscriptions & Reference Books: +$7,500 (IT Industry) MLM +$50 Business Coaching: +$5,000 (IT Industry) MLM Free Is MLM easy? No Is MLM for everyone? No Is MLM offer good training, low risk, business opportunity? Yes If you have ever stepped out of the comfort zone of employment into the self-employer or employer roles then the risks are high: Less than 20% survive the first 5 years. MLM suffers from similar high attrition rates but with one big difference. The people that fail in business can easily lose the house when the business goes bankrupt. If you quit at MLM you lose the $100 or so dollars you initially invested. MLM does require constant work, training and effort on the part of the person running the business. If you decide you want to watch TV, go play sport or take the kids on a holiday, you can. The business will still be there when you are ready to resume your work effort. Try disappearing from work for a month without notice, or tell your boss you can't be bothered working today, the football is on TV. Will you have a job when you return, not likely? Put things in perspective, treat MLM as a business, and it will reward you. Unlike your job, it will reward you for years to come, even while you are on holiday, or watching the kid’s football game (you may even recruit some new prospects). In my opinion why so many people fail in MLM or blame the system is they fail to acknowledge it as a business. The capital investment probably has a lot to do with it. If you had to invest the average $35,000 as in a franchise or the +$50,000 for a business, rather than the $100 for MLM, you would take it seriously. The beauty of MLM is you can do it part-time while you continue your normal job. The rate you work, and consequently, your returns are up to you. When you build the business enough you can then give away the day job and enjoy financial freedom that comes from passive income. If you prefer the security of a job, a mortgage, education you can afford for the children, and then consider this: What is a secure job? Doctor? No, look at medical tourism in Asia and South America. IT Professional? No, India is rapidly moving IT jobs offshore. Manager or Production worker? No, China is rapidly taking that work. your job? Chances are someone in Asia will do it quicker, longer and cheaper. Does the bank manager understand when you lose your job? No. Do you want your children to get the best education they can to have a chance in this changing world? I would say so. Before you criticize MLM, think for a moment, what else would give me that opportunity for such low risk? (Sorry, can't answer that one, can you?) They say the same things about MLM’s today as they did about franchising 30 years ago. Who would want the own a McDonald’s franchise back then, no-one, franchising was thought of as a scam and almost outlawed. Today, a different story. Twenty years ago you could be part of the crowd who knew franchising was a scam or you could have taken the risk owned a McDonalds chain. Same choice today but now it is MLM riding on the back of the internet and gaining speed. If it doesn’t work for you, in twenty years you can sit back with a beer, and tell everyone you never got scammed. But, what if it becomes bigger than franchising? You could be drinking a French burgundy on your yacht in the Riviera. Your choice, is it a scam or opportunity? And now from the my dictionary: S.C.A.M. (Someone Can’t Always Motivate) Meaning: If you can blame anyone else for your failure or laziness then do. If you are successful in your job, or whatever you choose instead of MLM, then please feel free to tell me about it. We could meet for a coffee in Paris, Milan, Rome, New York, Tokyo or London; I am there several times a year. (See my site for images of my last trip, my number is there too). Last edited by sunraybrett; 02-18-2007 at 01:18 PM. |
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| Quote: In a traditional business, if you have one pissed off customer in a hundred it's something to be dealt with immediately so that you can have 100% customer satisfaction. With MLM's it's a given that 99% of your retail customers and downlegs will become dissatisfied within 60 days. So why bother with an "opportunity" that has such crappy odds of success? I have been watching people sign up with MLMs or "networking marketing companies" since the late 1970s and have never known anyone who didn't end up losing money as a result. There are so many good business opportunities to go after, that I can't understand why anyone interested in additional income or self-employment would join an MLM.
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies Last edited by Antiventurecapital; 02-24-2007 at 08:08 PM. Reason: fixed typo |
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'Why bother with such crappy odds of success?' good question. Maybe I should mention a few people who bothered even though the odds were against them, I think you should know some of these. Thomas Edison (1000 failures to invent the light bulb). Isaac Newton (Years of failed experiments) The Wright brothers (man was not ment to fly) Henry Ford (Who needed assembly lines anyway?) Bill Gates (Nobody wants a home computer) Donald Trump (Massive failure but an even bigger recovery) Not to mention Artists, Musicians & Authors (odds to low, why try?) Why bother with crappy odds of success? Afterall no-one should take a risk when only a few will succeed. Don't ask for that raise or promotion. The odds of getting are too low. Better not look for a partner just look at those statistics for divorce. Why not sit back on the couch, watch the TV and find a nice safe dead end job. Why experience life to the fullest, when you can watch someone else do it on TV? Why bother? Improving your social skills, meeting new people and personal growth that comes through the motivation in MLM makes it worth the small expense. When you compare the cost with that spent on junk food, smokes or drink it is really quiet small. MLM improves your personal development and gives you a chance to succeed where as the normal costly vices do not. A question the MLM's ask if not MLM, what else? So tell me DmitryDavydov what else are you doing now that produces a passive income (income that keeps coming in regardless of if you work or not)? |
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| You do! Unless you can afford to have a lawyer on retainer or happen to have a friend or family member with a law degree - and even then, they may not be fully versed in the particular area of law you need, or be licensed or located where you need them to appear in court on your behalf. When I started a family I knew I needed a will (actually, I needed one before but couldn't afford it/never got around to it). PPL membership gives you will preparation for free, with free updates ever year - so as my family grows or my assets (or my spouse, LOL) change I can make adjustments. Have you ever read the back of a parking lot stub? Just by taking the ticket from the machine at the gate you have signed a contract with that parking company....and the company's lawyer wrote it to benefit the company, not you. Ever read the fine print on anything? Guess who wrote it - not your lawyer. Guess who it is NOT designed to favor...you. Here are some more examples from the company website: Have you ever: Been overcharged for a repair? Received a speeding ticket? Been audited? Purchased a home? Tried to return a defective product? Lost a security deposit? Signed a contract? Prepared a will? I haven't even touched on Identity Theft, which is a growing concern around the globe, especially now that it is tax season here in the US and all sorts of vital info is being circulated. As for the business, it works as both a direct selling business AND an MLM - associates are free to pursue either opportunity - or both. And as mentioned already, the training is fabulous. Most of it is free, but some more specialized training courses have fees. If you want to know more, email me or check out my website: www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/reevesr The company itself is solid. The founder wanted to put some power back into the hands of everyday folks. I am thankful for his efforts.
__________________ Make a living (while making a difference. http://www.deliveringonthepromise.com/40466086 |
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The main thing that MLM pries on is whats known as "silver bullet syndrome". The belief held by many that financial abundance and a great life can be made with a single silver bullet and little to no work. Luckily it only took me 4 months of reading into o9nline marketing products (which I spent a total of $0 on fortunatly), to realize that there is no such thing as a silver bullet. The only way you can get rich is by providing a great deal of value to society and your not going to do that in just a few weeks. Although there is one exception to this, the only silver bullet in making money is to... sell silver bullets. In health (diet pills anyone?), Money (get rich in just 10 days), Relationships (just say this one pickup line and the girl of your dreams will love you forever) and more there are hundreds of thousands of people selling silver bullets to gullible people. There is a way to make money in MLM, and that is to not spend thousands chasing a silver bullet that doesn't exist and to work your butt off selling your products. Its the same as any other business in the world and if you work hard at it YOU WILL get rewarded. Its just that 99% of people are still running around blind trying to chase these imaginary figments promising to bring them everything they ever desired in the next few days. Don't buy into the sales pitch. Cheers, Tim |
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I'm sure there are many, many scams out there - I've checked out a few and yes, if it seems too good to be true then it probably is! But no one in PPL is telling me to sit back, do nothing and wait for the $$ to start rolling in. All the training and all the other associates say to work. Whether its marketing and signing up memberships or recruiting and training a downline it is all hard, diligent, consistent work.
__________________ Make a living (while making a difference. http://www.deliveringonthepromise.com/40466086 |
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What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing? Last edited by escapee; 02-27-2007 at 11:47 PM. |
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Whew - I'm glad none of the companies I'm involved in were in that stat!! I'm not saying MLM is a better business model, I'm just saying it's not all scams. The companies I work with offer great products or services.
__________________ Make a living (while making a difference. http://www.deliveringonthepromise.com/40466086 |
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What intrigues me about this topic compared to this forum is that Steve is trying to find ways of becoming successful, and some of these topics here are saying certain ways, like MLM, don't work. In a simple form, people are saying "you can't do it," which contradicts what we are trying to accomplish: a better lifestyle. If MLM is a bad choice, why does Robert Kiyosaki and Donald Trump recommend it? Make your fortune and then I'll listen to what you have to say. The problem with MLM is some companies give the industry a bad reputation and the representatives don't know squat about business. 1) Some companies make it extremely difficult to get paid, because they want to retain the income IF they don't succeed. Stairstep plan?.. You have to recruit 5 people, and they get 10 customers and you get 5% of that? From that you would get.. let's say, 5 dollars. The average MLMer recruits 2.5 people. Good luck with stairstep. Binary plans on the other hand, you recruit 2 wide and drive it deep. Fewer crosslines and greater chance to succeed. Another problem is that the company doesn't have a great product or does their job right. Sell water filters? Like I need 50 of those. Or nutritional supplements. What's the point of selling a product if it's worse than what's out on the store shelves?.. More profit? If you have a great product, it makes more money in the long run. It should be common sense right? Or if the company doesn't give the support the representatives need? Or make the right corporate decisions? It's all business. 2) If the MLMers try to incorporate their job mentality into a business, of COURSE they're gonna fail. In a job, you're probably gonna do the least amount of work to get paid the most amount of money. In a BUSINESS, you have to work your ass off in the beginning, AND IF YOU DO IT RIGHT, maybe you'll get paid a little bit, but that's how all businesses are. Then it starts to exponentiate and voila, you do well. What's the point of bashing the MLM industry? If you don't believe in it, don't do it then BUT don't ruin other people's chances of discovering how MLM works. If you do that, you're no good than any other average person out there who say "you can't do this" or "you can't do that." Last edited by mrkpinero; 03-02-2007 at 07:36 PM. |
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Never bite the hand that feeds you.
__________________ www.*********************** or How I Learned to Stop Waiting for Investors and Start Building Companies |
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Hi Antiventurecapital, I'm curious to know whether you speak about mlm businesses from personal experience. mrkpinero makes a point that a person with traditional employee mentality thinks differently than a business owner. Kiyosaki also explains this. Different attitudes influence work ethic, expectations, whether you have a sense of entitlement, how you choose to spend your time, and whether you have a mindset of assuming making money is a right or an earned privilege. People who have experience running a business realize 'showing up' somwhere doesn't guarantee making money. They realize virtually no business has guaranteed results. Even McDonald's franchises have been known to go 'belly up' when the franchisee doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't follow the system. Does this mean the McDonald's system is flawed? No. The multi-billion dollar turnover of this company and its track record suggest otherwise. Regardless of what business you choose, if you're unwilling to exert efforts, to learn from established systems and people with proven experience in your area of interest, you won't likely reap rewards. Refer to books by Napoleon Hill, Og Mandino, Robert Kiyosaki, Stephen Covey and other famous authors in areas of success. It begins as a mindset and then, you put it into practice. Consider this: why are many books available through long-standing mlms often cheaper than the same books via Amazon and retail (if the books are found here)? When I attended traditional school, I purchased learning materials to better myself. It was a choice to buy, borrow, and to find other ways to learn. Self-directed learning is a choice. Last edited by Liara Covert; 03-04-2007 at 07:16 AM. |
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