Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

Antiventurecapital · 03-04-2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liara Covert

Hi Antiventurecapital,

I'm curious to know whether you speak about mlm businesses from personal experience.

Yes from personal experience in watching thousands sign up, try it for a few months, and then quit since the late 1970s. I'd say that one in every 100 mlmers makes just enough money to stick at it for a while before quitting. The odds of making any money at mlm are terrible. The odds of having satisfied customers and happy downlegs recruits are even worse.

I'll let you in on a little business secret: real business people try to carve out a unique niche for themselves in the market by finding something that only they can do, or do in a certain way, or in a particular market.

Beware of "business opportunities" which are handed out to everyone like bake sale flyers. They are very low quality ones.

Antiventurecapital · 03-04-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani

All of the current and past success in my life I attribute a significant portion to the people and materials I studied during my MLM dabbles.

You will learn far more more running a real business. Most entrepreneurs and salesmen I know listen to Brian Tracy, Bob Proctor, in the car between sales calls. In addition, real business will teach you how the business world really works and that you need to leave the herd and find your own opportunity to capitalize on.

Dani · 03-04-2007, 11:31 PM

I have in the past and am now running a couple of 'real' businesses, and in the process of building a very big one.

I also listen to Brian and Bob Regularly. Bob pretty much daily, and Brian a little bit each month.

I won't argue with you that MLM is not for the faint hearted. It has hurt plenty of people, but I am honestly glad for my experiences with it.

You can tell me all day, and provide list upon list of evidence why it's bad. It won't change that I am glad I did it.

I probably won't get -back- into it. It isn't the way I want to ultimately do business, but it was a good experience for me and provided me with a lot of the courage, confidence and backbone I have now.

What I have learnt from real business, is that it cost s alot more than an MLM to get started. And a lot more if you fail. I have 200k riding on my new business, most of which isn't mine. A bit more than 3-5 the average MLMer loses.

Suprisingly enough my investors are almost exclusively MLMers. None of my non MLMer friends want to hear anything about business.

Liara Covert · 03-09-2007, 06:37 AM

Hi Dani,
I like your posting. I also know other people who became involved in MLMs. The learning process and self-improvement side enabled them to develop skills which helped them to excel in other business. The point wasn't always to make a long-term profit or even profit at all. In some cases, priceless learning about themselves enabled them to excel later. It sometimes seemed like a co-op-business course where one studies and learns alongside developing the practical side of business. You seem to agree that one gets out of any business what one chooses to learn, retain and re-apply. It sounds like you have mentors and supporters who motivate you in your latest venture. Keep up the great work!

Hi Antiventurecapital,
Personal experience in running an MLM business isn't the same as watching people or hearing about why other people think they fail. Some people will simply blame the company rather than take a hard look at themselves and accept they had anything to do with their results. Doing things yourself is what enables you to gain personal experience. Making general estimates of failure versus success rates in any kind of business can be misleading when you possess limited information. I agree different business models exist. Niche businesses can be successful just as other kinds of businesses such as franchises or MLMs if entrepreneurs work hard and believe in what they do. Franchises or MLMs aren't for everyone. It makes sense to judge what is best for yourself. We all live and learn at our own pace. I simply question why you condemn people for their choices. If anyone chooses to pursue a business enterprise, my own experience has shown it helps to connect with role models who have achieved success. When successful people are willing to share lessons learned in person, this can be more valuable than reading a book.

Antiventurecapital · 03-09-2007, 06:46 AM

I know that we will never agree on MLMs.

My point is simply that you can just as easily work on yourself with PD in business. There is no point in wasting a few years on an MLM just so that you can do PD.

Dani · 03-09-2007, 07:16 AM

Actually I won't argue with you on that point.

I wouldn't reccomend doing it -just- for PD. That's a bit of a no pain no gain argument.

I just disagree that it's the single 'worst' way to do business and the implication that it's pointless.

It has good and bad points.

I also agree that there are better methods of doing business.

I just got the feeling from your post that no good would come of it if you ever did MLM.

Which is essentially what I dissagree with.

EDIT: Incidently, on your own site you talk about how tough it can be for people to get a business going given the current teaching we recieve. 1 in 500 actually attract any capital to start their business and then half of them get fired in the first year.

That is possibly even worse odds than in MLM. At least you get started in mlm even if you fall on your face.

Antiventurecapital · 03-09-2007, 07:23 AM

If that's your picture on your website, you are a young man with a long bright future ahead of him. Take the lessons you learn from every experience and use them to get ahead. As you get older the opportunities that come before you will get better and better.

The past is water under the bridge.

Antiventurecapital · 03-09-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani

EDIT: Incidently, on your own site you talk about how tough it can be for people to get a business going given the current teaching we recieve. 1 in 500 actually attract any capital to start their business and then half of them get fired in the first year.

That is possibly even worse odds than in MLM. At least you get started in mlm even if you fall on your face.

That's why, to quote Dirty Harry, "a wise man knows his limitations."
VC is for only a select few, so why waste your time waiting for it to be given to you?

Dani · 03-09-2007, 07:32 AM

Yeah it is me. 30 in a few weeks so still young enough.

Thanks for the good will. I am out of this thread now.

I am trying to minimise my online arguing.

Because resisting is persisting after all.

I hope your book is worth it. If so I will put up a review.

Antiventurecapital · 03-09-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dani

Yeah it is me. 30 in a few weeks so still young enough.

Congratulations!

You are about to enter your first big money earning decade.

Dani · 03-09-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

Congratulations!

You are about to enter your first big money earning decade.

Sweet. Cause I was earning over 200k a year at one point in the last decade.

I can't wait for the big money.

Aaron · 03-10-2007, 10:39 AM

Indisputable facts about MLM businesses...

3 way calling is a waste of time and is responsible for the highest levels of attrition in the industry - fastest way to introduce a new person to rejection and is a way to subconsciously say to a prospect..."I'm to immature, unprofessional and incompetant to handle my own business so I need my sponsor to hold my hand!"

duplication is a scam because nobody is duplicatable...delegation is the keyword.

I get a 95%+ closing ratio when setting appointments to get anyone to say yes to an opportunity...have been doing this since 2001 and it only takes me 45 seconds or less. you can too...

writing a list of friends and family for most mlm's is a waste of time...it is qualifed prospects you want to talk to...don't listen to the companies advice or you will fail.

there are other things you need to know about MLM or any marketing and especially if you are trying to market online...

Visit this newsletter and learn the truth about a lot of it...

You have a website and want to get it ranked high on google or some other serach engines? You've been told to go submit it to 1000 search engines directly? You've been lied to.

This newsletter gives you the hard cold facts that can't be argued with because documentation beats conversation any day of the week.

Marketing Newsletter

sirkinm · 04-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liara Covert

Refer to books by Napoleon Hill, Og Mandino, Robert Kiyosaki, Stephen Covey and other famous authors in areas of success.

I just thought I'd throw this out because I see Kiyosaki's name thrown around: Did you see this page about John T. Reed's analysis of Kiyosaki? Another poster in the Book Recommendation section brought it to my attention, and I found it eye-opening.

Anyway, sorry for the interruption -- carry on

Chris Cade · 04-13-2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkinm

I just thought I'd throw this out because I see Kiyosaki's name thrown around: Did you see this page about John T. Reed's analysis of Kiyosaki? Another poster in the Book Recommendation section brought it to my attention, and I found it eye-opening.

Anyway, sorry for the interruption -- carry on

Who cares about fact or fiction? Kiyosaki has inspired millions of people to pursue financial freedom through a variety of means.

spirit4711 · 04-13-2009, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Cade

Who cares about fact or fiction? Kiyosaki has inspired millions of people to pursue financial freedom through a variety of means.

I do not care if a book is fiction or not. I do care if an author passes fiction for facts. That's called lying in my book.

I'm not saying Kiyosaki did what Reed stated on his web page. But if he did, he surely wouldn't inspire me.

JackTP · 04-13-2009, 10:44 AM

I am against MLM for the reason that one way or the other you are sellings something that is oevrpriced.

If that is a vacum cleaner or herbal supplements is the same thing.

You are selling a dream of fast riches, not a product.

MLM end up alienating your friends and family.

03-09-2007, 06:37 AM	#34 (permalink)
Liara Covert Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 584	Hi Dani, I like your posting. I also know other people who became involved in MLMs. The learning process and self-improvement side enabled them to develop skills which helped them to excel in other business. The point wasn't always to make a long-term profit or even profit at all. In some cases, priceless learning about themselves enabled them to excel later. It sometimes seemed like a co-op-business course where one studies and learns alongside developing the practical side of business. You seem to agree that one gets out of any business what one chooses to learn, retain and re-apply. It sounds like you have mentors and supporters who motivate you in your latest venture. Keep up the great work! Hi Antiventurecapital, Personal experience in running an MLM business isn't the same as watching people or hearing about why other people think they fail. Some people will simply blame the company rather than take a hard look at themselves and accept they had anything to do with their results. Doing things yourself is what enables you to gain personal experience. Making general estimates of failure versus success rates in any kind of business can be misleading when you possess limited information. I agree different business models exist. Niche businesses can be successful just as other kinds of businesses such as franchises or MLMs if entrepreneurs work hard and believe in what they do. Franchises or MLMs aren't for everyone. It makes sense to judge what is best for yourself. We all live and learn at our own pace. I simply question why you condemn people for their choices. If anyone chooses to pursue a business enterprise, my own experience has shown it helps to connect with role models who have achieved success. When successful people are willing to share lessons learned in person, this can be more valuable than reading a book. Last edited by Liara Covert; 03-11-2007 at 04:49 AM.

03-09-2007, 07:16 AM	#36 (permalink)
Dani Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 305	Actually I won't argue with you on that point. I wouldn't reccomend doing it -just- for PD. That's a bit of a no pain no gain argument. I just disagree that it's the single 'worst' way to do business and the implication that it's pointless. It has good and bad points. I also agree that there are better methods of doing business. I just got the feeling from your post that no good would come of it if you ever did MLM. Which is essentially what I dissagree with. EDIT: Incidently, on your own site you talk about how tough it can be for people to get a business going given the current teaching we recieve. 1 in 500 actually attract any capital to start their business and then half of them get fired in the first year. That is possibly even worse odds than in MLM. At least you get started in mlm even if you fall on your face. Last edited by Dani; 03-09-2007 at 07:19 AM.

03-10-2007, 10:39 AM	#42 (permalink)
Aaron Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 136	Truth about MLM - the most important facts you will ever learn about MLM Indisputable facts about MLM businesses... 3 way calling is a waste of time and is responsible for the highest levels of attrition in the industry - fastest way to introduce a new person to rejection and is a way to subconsciously say to a prospect..."I'm to immature, unprofessional and incompetant to handle my own business so I need my sponsor to hold my hand!" duplication is a scam because nobody is duplicatable...delegation is the keyword. I get a 95%+ closing ratio when setting appointments to get anyone to say yes to an opportunity...have been doing this since 2001 and it only takes me 45 seconds or less. you can too... writing a list of friends and family for most mlm's is a waste of time...it is qualifed prospects you want to talk to...don't listen to the companies advice or you will fail. there are other things you need to know about MLM or any marketing and especially if you are trying to market online... Visit this newsletter and learn the truth about a lot of it... You have a website and want to get it ranked high on google or some other serach engines? You've been told to go submit it to 1000 search engines directly? You've been lied to. This newsletter gives you the hard cold facts that can't be argued with because documentation beats conversation any day of the week. Marketing Newsletter

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03-04-2007, 11:31 PM	#33 (permalink)
Dani Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 305	I have in the past and am now running a couple of 'real' businesses, and in the process of building a very big one. I also listen to Brian and Bob Regularly. Bob pretty much daily, and Brian a little bit each month. I won't argue with you that MLM is not for the faint hearted. It has hurt plenty of people, but I am honestly glad for my experiences with it. You can tell me all day, and provide list upon list of evidence why it's bad. It won't change that I am glad I did it. I probably won't get -back- into it. It isn't the way I want to ultimately do business, but it was a good experience for me and provided me with a lot of the courage, confidence and backbone I have now. What I have learnt from real business, is that it cost s alot more than an MLM to get started. And a lot more if you fail. I have 200k riding on my new business, most of which isn't mine. A bit more than 3-5 the average MLMer loses. Suprisingly enough my investors are almost exclusively MLMers. None of my non MLMer friends want to hear anything about business.

03-09-2007, 06:46 AM	#35 (permalink)
Antiventurecapital Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State Posts: 446	I know that we will never agree on MLMs. My point is simply that you can just as easily work on yourself with PD in business. There is no point in wasting a few years on an MLM just so that you can do PD.

03-09-2007, 07:23 AM	#37 (permalink)
Antiventurecapital Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: WA State Posts: 446	If that's your picture on your website, you are a young man with a long bright future ahead of him. Take the lessons you learn from every experience and use them to get ahead. As you get older the opportunities that come before you will get better and better. The past is water under the bridge.

03-09-2007, 07:32 AM	#39 (permalink)
Dani Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 305	Yeah it is me. 30 in a few weeks so still young enough. Thanks for the good will. I am out of this thread now. I am trying to minimise my online arguing. Because resisting is persisting after all. I hope your book is worth it. If so I will put up a review.

04-13-2009, 10:44 AM	#46 (permalink)
JackTP Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 30	I am against MLM for the reason that one way or the other you are sellings something that is oevrpriced. If that is a vacum cleaner or herbal supplements is the same thing. You are selling a dream of fast riches, not a product. MLM end up alienating your friends and family.

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums