Mixed feelings about money

[Tobias Zimpel]

Hi,

I'm just working through my beliefs and feelings about money that held me back in the past and at the moment prevent me from earning even enough money to pay the bills.

I feel driven to the lightworker path in that I feel a strong urge to help other people and provide real value to the society - so that qualifies as "earning money the right way" as opposed to trying to get something for nothing.

And I trust - or are learning to trust at the moment - that if I concentrate on doing my very best to provide as much value as possible to as many people as possible, then the earning-money part cares for itself as long as I open paths for money coming into my life.

But is there a wrong way to spend money even if it was earned the right way? Is it wront to spent money for myself, for sheer pleasure, fun and luxury?

On the one hand, I dream of a business that helps thousands or even millions of people, and I see myself spending a significant amount of money on growing my business and helping people - but I see myself spending another significant amount of my income for myself and my family - speeking of a penthouse, a ferrari, holidays, just to list a few things that pop into my mind. But isn't it selfish to spend money for myself and my family - at least on more than bread and water (or to provide my family a healthy life, a home that is large enough for us to live in, etc...).

Or simply put: Is it OK for a lightworker to spend money for luxury, or would that disqualify myself and make me a darkworker?

I'm sure I'm simply mising something. Has anyone an idea of what I could think to solve this issue? Is there a way to form a consistent lightworker mindset of all this, or do I have to give up the dream of some luxury for myself in order to fully polarize?

[ahimel]

No - why should it? It would be a problem to spend your money on yourself it by doing so you were taking wealth away from others. But there's an unlimited amount of wealth in the world - taking some for yourself doesn't harm anyone. It's just like help - it's not like there's a limited amount of assistance in the world, and if I help your neighbor it means I've harmed you. There's nothing wrong with helping yourself, and there's nothing wrong with paying yourself.

When you cross the border to darkworker is when you care more about the luxury for yourself than helping other people. But lightworking is the path of love - and it includes yourself. You have to love yourself as much as you love the starving children in Africa.

(IMHO. I'm only a fledgling lightworker and not very good at it yet, so if other lightworkers disagree, they should please contradict me.)

[rene_stpierre]

I fully agree.

If a luxury house, sports cars, etc. are what you want in your life, you should not feel ashamed. You should plan to get them and vizualize yourself in their possession.

You have earned the money helping other people. You have done your part to help make the world a better place. You deserve to spend it anyway you want.

Enjoy!
René

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by ahimel

No - why should it? It would be a problem to spend your money on yourself it by doing so you were taking wealth away from others. But there's an unlimited amount of wealth in the world - taking some for yourself doesn't harm anyone.

That's right. Thank you for opening my eyes.

But then, according to steve, a highly conscious darkworker would also provide genuine value, but with the intention to get as much money as possible for himself.

It's just like help - it's not like there's a limited amount of assistance in the world, and if I help your neighbor it means I've harmed you. There's nothing wrong with helping yourself, and there's nothing wrong with paying yourself.

OK. So let's suppose by providing value, I'm earning 5.000 bucks a month. when I spend 2.000 on myself, there are 3.000 left I can spend on helping others or growing my business. If I spend 4.500 on myself, there are only 500 left.

But again I'm thinking in terms of limited amound, and that by spending money on myself, I'm harming others in that I don't spend it on then. But on the other hand, I could teach them how they could make as much as I do...

I'm confused!

When you cross the border to darkworker is when you care more about the luxury for yourself than helping other people. But lightworking is the path of love - and it includes yourself. You have to love yourself as much as you love the starving children in Africa.

At the moment I love them more than myself, but still that's a good point - that I should start loving myself more...

(IMHO. I'm only a fledgling lightworker and not very good at it yet, so if other lightworkers disagree, they should please contradict me.)

I'd also appreciate some "Ack!"-Posts, just to know that it's not only the opinion of one or two guys on earth.

BTW: Looking at people like Joe Vitale makes me wonder on which side they play. Joe is providing a lot of value (he's pumping out a new info product, book, DVD or something every week or so...), making an amount of money I can't even imagine, and spends a lot on himself, like on cars.

Hm... I guess it's not bad to spend money for myself, nor intending to get money for lifestyle. Any other opinions?

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by rene_stpierre

I fully agree.

If a luxury house, sports cars, etc. are what you want in your life, you should not feel ashamed. You should plan to get them and vizualize yourself in their possession.

You have earned the money helping other people. You have done your part to help make the world a better place. You deserve to spend it anyway you want.

Enjoy!
René

Thanks, René.

The How is not the problem - I've seen The Secret so often I can't even count it, and read about it every day to keep me "on track" to the mindset of subjective reality. Although I have to learn how to make myself a vibrational match for my goals - but that is more a matter of time, since I have an abundant amount of sources to help me learn that.

But I still have mixed feelings spending it on myself than on others - I thing I should work on my self esteem for first, that I deserve the money I could earn.

[Alchemiss]

When money makes you feel conflicted, there is generally something behind it. Our financial advisor recommended the book I've linked below and I got a lot out of it. It's worth a read, for sure.

Amazon.com: Making Peace With Money: Books: Jerrold Mundis

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

When money makes you feel conflicted, there is generally something behind it. Our financial advisor recommended the book I've linked below and I got a lot out of it. It's worth a read, for sure.

Amazon.com: Making Peace With Money: Books: Jerrold Mundis

Thanks, Alchemiss. I think I've heard of Jerrold Mundis before, and I'll put this on my list on amazon.

[MindofMan]

I third that. Great book and highly recommended.

There are a lot of guilty feelings around money, it seems. It's very easy, if you are an emotional person, to lose yourself in the frustration of how to help others most effectively. I know that feeling well. There are no easy answers.

I think that's probably why so many people make their career the focus of their life. It's something you have control over. The famines, civil wars etc. are not something you will ever be able to do much about (unless helping people afterwards, and even then it's not all about money).

[Shamou]

Originally Posted by Tobias Zimpel

Hi,
But is there a wrong way to spend money even if it was earned the right way? Is it wront to spent money for myself, for sheer pleasure, fun and luxury?

Every time you buy something... someone benefits...

If you want to have a clear conscience on this matter... read about the zero-sum game right here in Wikipedia...

.

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by Shamou

Every time you buy something... someone benefits...

That's so obvious that I never saw it this way ;-) Thanks.

[ahimel]

Originally Posted by Tobias Zimpel

But then, according to steve, a highly conscious darkworker would also provide genuine value, but with the intention to get as much money as possible for himself.

True. There's no way you can tell the difference between a high-level darkworker and a high-level lightworker without talking to them (or telepathy.) The difference is not in their actions, but in their intentions.

OK. So let's suppose by providing value, I'm earning 5.000 bucks a month. when I spend 2.000 on myself, there are 3.000 left I can spend on helping others or growing my business. If I spend 4.500 on myself, there are only 500 left.

But again I'm thinking in terms of limited amound, and that by spending money on myself, I'm harming others in that I don't spend it on then. But on the other hand, I could teach them how they could make as much as I do...

Right. If you reduce your spending to $500/mo, you can give away $4500/mo. But if you instead increase your income to $10,000/mo, you can spend $4500/mo and still give away $5,500/mo.

Or you can help them help themselves. If Steve split his monthly income among everyone who reads this blog, we'd each get ... what? $1/mo? It's an OK model, I guess, especially since he has readers in places where $1 is worth something. But a better option is to teach us (as best he can) to generate our own incomes. Then we can get ourselves to $2000/mo, $5000/mo, $50,000/mo

• without Steve doing any extra work
• no matter how much his readership grows he still is providing the same value to everyone
• we have the ability to keep making money even if Steve kicks the bucket
• we get the joy of growing and learning
• we get to feel the pride of achievement when we manage to make our own money.

So which of these people provided more value: the person who makes $1,000,000/mo and gives it all away, or the person who makes $1,000,000/mo, spends $100/mo on hosting and equipment and time to write a personal development blog, and spends the rest on themselves?

At the moment I love them more than myself, but still that's a good point - that I should start loving myself more...

And that's part of your problem. In this case, there must be balance; lightworker syndrome is what will happen if you go too far. Then you can't help anyone, so you have a duty to avoid it.

BTW: Looking at people like Joe Vitale makes me wonder on which side they play. Joe is providing a lot of value (he's pumping out a new info product, book, DVD or something every week or so...), making an amount of money I can't even imagine, and spends a lot on himself, like on cars.

Like I say, it's hard to know without talking to him, because there's no way you can tell from his actions. I wrote about that for business, but most of those principles will apply regardless of how you make your money - you can't tell the difference between a McDonalds run by a darkworker and a McDonalds run by a lightworker.

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by ahimel

True. There's no way you can tell the difference between a high-level darkworker and a high-level lightworker without talking to them (or telepathy.) The difference is not in their actions, but in their intentions.

And that's exactiy the point. If my intentions are to spend a huge amount of the money on myself (=self interest), whre is the border whrer this makes me a darkworker even if I provide a huge amount of value to get that money?

So which of these people provided more value: the person who makes $1,000,000/mo and gives it all away, or the person who makes $1,000,000/mo, spends $100/mo on hosting and equipment and time to write a personal development blog, and spends the rest on themselves?

Of course the second one. But that still doesn't tell me something about why this person created the value in the first place. And if he provided the value with the intention to spend the money earned on himself, wouldn't exacty that make him a darkworker?

Or does it all accumulate to the question "Am I ultimately safe", as Steve suggests? That seems to be more usable to distinguish. I have to believe Steve that he feels ultimately safe, and that makes him a lightworker no matter if he's in it for raising consciousness and making tons of money with it, of if his goal is to make tons of money, and he does that by providing lots and lots of value to help raising consciousness.

And that's part of your problem. In this case, there must be balance; lightworker syndrome is what will happen if you go too far. Then you can't help anyone, so you have a duty to avoid it.

If you ask me, I'm in it already - or at best on the straight way into it.

I wrote about that for business, but most of those principles will apply regardless of how you make your money - you can't tell the difference between a McDonalds run by a darkworker and a McDonalds run by a lightworker.

That could be right. And I'm going to read the post you've linkd to.

Thanks for your clarifications.

[ahimel]

Originally Posted by Tobias Zimpel

And that's exactiy the point. If my intentions are to spend a huge amount of the money on myself (=self interest), whre is the border whrer this makes me a darkworker even if I provide a huge amount of value to get that money?

Of course the second one. But that still doesn't tell me something about why this person created the value in the first place. And if he provided the value with the intention to spend the money earned on himself, wouldn't exacty that make him a darkworker?

Or does it all accumulate to the question "Am I ultimately safe", as Steve suggests? That seems to be more usable to distinguish. I have to believe Steve that he feels ultimately safe, and that makes him a lightworker no matter if he's in it for raising consciousness and making tons of money with it, of if his goal is to make tons of money, and he does that by providing lots and lots of value to help raising consciousness.

I think that question is a better one, for a couple of reasons. For one, as I've said, it's hard to know for sure why you're doing it. At least, I have a hard time - it's very easy for me to lie to myself and say that I'm doing it to help others. But your attitude towards the money you already have is a test you can use again and again and again - to keep an eye on the changes inside you.

I haven't found any hard and fast guidelines, but some questions that might help are:
Did I attract this money because I see so much abundance in the world that I couldn't help but get some? Or did I attract it to protect myself from lack?

If I lost all this money, would I fear poverty? Or would I love life equally either way?

If I had a choice between never being able to spend money on myself again (no matter how rich I am I still have to beg on street corners for food) and never being able to give money away again, which would I choose?

I'm glad I have this much money because (a) It gives me power to protect myself and my loved ones (b) It gives me the ability to assist others without worrying about my needs.

If you ask me, I'm in it already - or at best on the straight way into it.

I have to agree. I have problems with lightworker syndrome myself, so I recognize the symptoms.

[SeriousKidding.com]

Nothing wrong with money. It all depends on how you go about getting it, I suppose. Then, when you are fortunate enough to manifest/attract it into your life, what will you do with it? The answers are not so simple, but I'll enjoy figuring them out.

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by SeriousKidding.com

Nothing wrong with money. It all depends on how you go about getting it, I suppose.

Maybe you're right! ...but maybe not. And that's exactly the point: I don't wanna suppose, I wanna know for certain.

Then, when you are fortunate enough to manifest/attract it into your life, what will you do with it? The answers are not so simple, but I'll enjoy figuring them out.

I don't get what I need fortune for to attract money, but nevertheless I have some very good answers, up to the particular home I'd love to live in (or one that's quite similar, if I can't get that special one...).

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by ahimel

I think that question is a better one, for a couple of reasons. For one, as I've said, it's hard to know for sure why you're doing it. At least, I have a hard time - it's very easy for me to lie to myself and say that I'm doing it to help others.

Yeah, I just tried that for about half a year - nut very successfully. I blocked myself, so I was earning less and less money because I knew I was lying to myself.

But your attitude towards the money you already have is a test you can use again and again and again - to keep an eye on the changes inside you.

That's easy - I have none

And still I think this question only makes sense when my rent, food, clothes and bills are paid for.

I haven't found any hard and fast guidelines, but some questions that might help are:
Did I attract this money because I see so much abundance in the world that I couldn't help but get some? Or did I attract it to protect myself from lack?

Good point For that matter, I'm perfectly fine to earn no money for a limited time as long as I kan keep my credit cards...

OK, kidding...

If I lost all this money, would I fear poverty? Or would I love life equally either way?

As some actress (I forgot the name) once said in an interview: "I've been rich, and I've been poor. Believe me - rich is better!"

And that's something I try to live on: I can survive when I'm poor, but I will never get used to it. And I do prevent myself from lack of money by paying some insurances, so even if I attract myself out of my job (or out of my body for that matter), me and/or my loved one's basic financial needs would be provided for - at least for a limited time.

Might be scarcity mindset, but I don't see any reason that even if I self-sabotage myself out of a wrong-for-me career by attracting circumstances that make it impossible to stay there (accident, allergies, ...), I should go into debt while switching to a new career that's right for me under the new circumstances. And if I find out myself that I'm in some circumstanves that are totally wrong for me, I want to be able to get out of them immediately and have the freedom to search for better ones and try things out while still having enough money to support my family.

But I wouldn't see fear as the main motivation, although I have no better term but "financial security" for it.

If I had a choice between never being able to spend money on myself again (no matter how rich I am I still have to beg on street corners for food) and never being able to give money away again, which would I choose?

That's a hard one - I can still give my time, knowledge and wisdom to others, and even if I can't give them money, I'd still be able to show them how to attract some themselves ...or some more!

But saying that no matter how many billions I have in my bank account, I'd be fine with spending not even a single dollar to buy a dying child some medicine feels as wrong to me as not being allowed to buy that medicine for myself should I need it.

The question is - if I would have only as much money to buy the medicine for one of us, and know that the one who doesn't get it will die, I'd probably give it to the child and then pray for myself.

What would you do?

I'm glad I have this much money because (a) It gives me power to protect myself and my loved ones (b) It gives me the ability to assist others without worrying about my needs.

as you write "protect" instead of "provide for the needs of", I'd suggest that you answer the question "am I safe" with no - or that you are no vibrational match for a "yes" right now.

I have to agree. I have problems with lightworker syndrome myself, so I recognize the symptoms.

Maybe we can "cure" each other?

[Alchemiss]

Originally Posted by Tobias Zimpel

The question is - if I would have only as much money to buy the medicine for one of us, and know that the one who doesn't get it will die, I'd probably give it to the child and then pray for myself.

What would you do?

I'm not following your thread in detail but this jumped out at me. It is noble of you to be willing to sacrifice yourself for a child but what if you could go on to live and save 25 other people whereas the child saves no one? I don't think there is a "right" answer just as I don't think there's a "right" answer about how much to give or spend. I think you have to come to a point where it feels right and you go with it. Plus you can continue to adjust over time if what feels right changes.

[Tobias Zimpel]

Originally Posted by Alchemiss

I'm not following your thread in detail but this jumped out at me. It is noble of you to be willing to sacrifice yourself for a child but what if you could go on to live and save 25 other people whereas the child saves no one?

Maybe the child is the umcoming next Jesus Christ, maybe the next Hitler od George Bush - who knows? I don't. The only thing I know is that I can save his or her life. Is there anything more that matters?

Once there was a child walking on a beath throwing starfishes back into the ocean. A man came along saying "Look, there's thousands, if not even millions of starfishes here at the beach. Don't you see that trowing some of them back into the ocean doesn't make a difference at large?" The boy picks another starfish, looks at it for a moment and then thows it back far into the ocean, mumbling "for hin it does make a difference!"

Anyways, the Child could probably not get the medicine from somewhere else, but as I said, I'd then pray for myself, and if I give, I will receive myself. If I ask for what I want, it is given to me.

Does that make any sense to you, especially if you view yourself not from the 80-120 years you are bound to this particular body and life, but from the perspective of 15 billion years of existence so far, and consciousness at large?

I don't think there is a "right" answer

Of course not, as there is no right or wrong about darkworking or lightworking.

I think you have to come to a point where it feels right and you go with it. Plus you can continue to adjust over time if what feels right changes.

But then I still have to find out if it just feels right or wrong because I was mislead in some way or because my mind is clouded, or if it still feels wrong when I put it into the brightest sunlight and watch it from all sides. Steves suggestion to gain more clarity by watching something from multiple perspectives seems to be good after all.