Who here is successful in MLM marketing?

[Entelechy]

I think most MLM companies are extremely overhyped, but every now and then a real, genuine opportunity does pop up.

Were you able to grab it? If so, which one did you choose and how is it going so far?

[mikethedrummer44]

Probably no one. I'd stay away from those things like the plague.

Even if you did manage to make money, everyone above you would be cashing in thanks to your hard efforts.

Why not start a business where YOU'RE the top guy cashing in?

[Entelechy]

Mike, are you familiar with Robert Kiyosaki's quadrant concept?

[mikethedrummer44]

Nope. I haven't read much of Robert T. Kiyosaki, although I hear most of the stuff after "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" was pretty... meh.

[Entelechy]

If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I've read the book), the quadrant concept is in fact illustrated in Rich Dad Poor Dad.

I'll avoid typing up an essay here, but in a nutshell, MLM has advantages that absolutely trump being a small business owner. Generally speaking, you have much more leverage.

The key is, though, finding a genuinely good opportunity, and not a BS "opportunity" like most seem to be.

Regardless, just thought I'd ask.

[gene2009]

I deal with EPN and Amazon. But it's about about a few extra bucks a month
I just can imagine what people have to do for earning real big money with MLM.

[mikethedrummer44]

Originally Posted by Entelechy

If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I've read the book), the quadrant concept is in fact illustrated in Rich Dad Poor Dad.

I'll avoid typing up an essay here, but in a nutshell, MLM has advantages that absolutely trump being a small business owner. Generally speaking, you have much more leverage.

The key is, though, finding a genuinely good opportunity, and not a BS "opportunity" like most seem to be.

Regardless, just thought I'd ask.

Cool. Hope it works out for you!

[Brutha]

I'll avoid typing up an essay here, but in a nutshell, MLM has advantages that absolutely trump being a small business owner. Generally speaking, you have much more leverage.

Robert Kiyosaki is himself running an MLM. It's only natural that he tells other people that they should go into MLM.

The idea of searching the magical opportunity that suddenly does all the work for you is in general no effective way to make money.

[Clint Cora]

Usually it's only the top guy in MLM who makes big $ (as a result of signing up all the other folks who don't make any $). In my personal experience, the folks who are into MLM ventures always try to sell me something before actually qualifying whether I'm a potential real customer or not. They try to sell on everyone and those who are in professional sales know darn well that one should always qualify a prospect first.

For example, this one lady (who was a bit heavy set) tried to sell me on some weight loss products. Well, hello, I have a 30 inch waistline -- why would I need any weight loss products?

Maybe there might be some exceptions out there but the vast majority of people in MLMs do not make much $ and the ones I've met have absolutely terrible selling skills - or lack of.

[Entelechy]

Originally Posted by gene2009

I deal with EPN and Amazon. But it's about about a few extra bucks a month
I just can imagine what people have to do for earning real big money with MLM.

Not familiar with EPN, but Amazon is an affiliate account, right? (i.e. not exactly MLM)

As far as what people would have to do to earn big money in MLM, I'm sure they'd have to be dedicated and work really hard -- just like they'd have to do to earn big money otherwise.

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer44

Cool. Hope it works out for you!

Thanks, Mike. I haven't decided which one to really focus on yet, but it won't be any Amyway or ACN-type stuff. MLM companies are a dime a dozen, and I agree that most aren't worth your time. However, though rare, a good opportunity is a good opportunity... MLM or not. Agreed?

Originally Posted by Brutha

Robert Kiyosaki is himself running an MLM. It's only natural that he tells other people that they should go into MLM.

The idea of searching the magical opportunity that suddenly does all the work for you is in general no effective way to make money.

That's interesting. In his book, "The Business of the 21st Century," he explicitly states that he is not actually in the [MLM] business himself. I'm aware that he could be lying (as could anybody), and I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I have to ask: which MLM is Kiyosaki running exactly?

As far as some magical opportunity dropping free money on me, I never said anything along those lines... lol. Business is business, and you're going to have to pay your dues no matter what. I'll just assume this was a misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

Usually it's only the top guy in MLM who makes big $ (as a result of signing up all the other folks who don't make any $). In my personal experience, the folks who are into MLM ventures always try to sell me something before actually qualifying whether I'm a potential real customer or not. They try to sell on everyone and those who are in professional sales know darn well that one should always qualify a prospect first.

For example, this one lady (who was a bit heavy set) tried to sell me on some weight loss products. Well, hello, I have a 30 inch waistline -- why would I need any weight loss products?

Maybe there might be some exceptions out there but the vast majority of people in MLMs do not make much $ and the ones I've met have absolutely terrible selling skills - or lack of.

With exceptions, I agree that it's the people at the top that make the most money -- just as it would be with any other company, MLM or not. For the record here, I would be getting into a newer one, though, so I would have that advantage.

Regarding idiot MLMers with almost negative sales ability, yup, I think we've all run into those. Every avenue in business has those people that give it a bad name, lol. There's no denying that.

And lastly, it's definitely true that most people that get involved in MLM do not and will not make money. This is probably for several reasons -- bad companies/crappy products aside -- including but not limited to people that are either looking for a free ride and/or honestly just aren't fit for sales. Once again, though, I would make sure to have these bases covered personally.


Thanks for contributing, guys. More opinions are welcome if you have something else to say.

[mikethedrummer44]

Originally Posted by Entelechy

Thanks, Mike. I haven't decided which one to really focus on yet, but it won't be any Amyway or ACN-type stuff. MLM companies are a dime a dozen, and I agree that most aren't worth your time. However, though rare, a good opportunity is a good opportunity... MLM or not. Agreed?

Of course. I've yet to see anything CLOSE to a "good opportunity" coming out of the MLM world, though, so if you find one, let me know.

That is, if I can get over my instant gag-reflex at the mere mention of MLM.

[SnerpGoodWord]

My comment to the OP is the MLM is universally a scam. As such it can potentially be profitable to those who have skills at being scammers, but is never profitable from a business perspective.

Basic rules of thumb:

- if there are economic profits to be made by selling X, someone will manufacture X and hire a salesforce to sell it.

- if, in contrast, there are profits to be made by selling a system to the salesmen of X, then someone will set up a MLM pyrimid to scam the "salesmen".

Simply put, it's not hard to recruit salesmen. There is no economic reason to set up a MLM pyramid to sell ANYTHING if it makes economic sense to sell it. You can simply hire salesmen and sell away. The only reason to set up the pyramid is if your goal is not really to sell the product but rather to sell to the salesmen. Then recruiting (not selling) is the primary business and you need as many recruiters as possible - hence the pyramid structure.

Point being, there is no such thing as a "MLM opportunity" unless you're a scammer yourself.

[Brutha]

I'm aware that he could be lying (as could anybody), and I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I have to ask: which MLM is Kiyosaki running exactly?

As far as my memories goes Kiyosaki was selling some of his seminars through MLM techniques.
I however might be wrong as I don't find a source at the moment.

And lastly, it's definitely true that most people that get involved in MLM do not and will not make money.

You have to understand what "most" means:
The nonprofit Consumer Awareness Institute analyzed available data published by the MLM companies themselves. Of the companies surveyed, they reported the least successful was Amway/Quixtar where 99.99% of distributors lose money, and the most successful was Herbalife, where 99.42% of distributors lose money.
The numbers for those distributors who make minimum wage for their time investment will be even lower.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Brutha

As far as my memories goes Kiyosaki was selling some of his seminars through MLM techniques.
I however might be wrong as I don't find a source at the moment.

This is correct - he got his break selling RDPD through Amway. It was always intended as a MLM product. Not necessarily the sort of thing that will have a "source" - that was just where he sold the books.

[Entelechy]

Originally Posted by mikethedrummer44

Of course. I've yet to see anything CLOSE to a "good opportunity" coming out of the MLM world, though, so if you find one, let me know.

That is, if I can get over my instant gag-reflex at the mere mention of MLM.

Haha, fair enough!

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

My comment to the OP is the MLM is universally a scam. As such it can potentially be profitable to those who have skills at being scammers, but is never profitable from a business perspective.

Basic rules of thumb:

- if there are economic profits to be made by selling X, someone will manufacture X and hire a salesforce to sell it.

- if, in contrast, there are profits to be made by selling a system to the salesmen of X, then someone will set up a MLM pyrimid to scam the "salesmen".

Simply put, it's not hard to recruit salesmen. There is no economic reason to set up a MLM pyramid to sell ANYTHING if it makes economic sense to sell it. You can simply hire salesmen and sell away. The only reason to set up the pyramid is if your goal is not really to sell the product but rather to sell to the salesmen. Then recruiting (not selling) is the primary business and you need as many recruiters as possible - hence the pyramid structure.

Point being, there is no such thing as a "MLM opportunity" unless you're a scammer yourself.

I've thought about this myself, and it's probably the best argument yet. I've heard MLM founders and executives claim "we want to provide the average person with a chance at financial freedom" or "word of mouth is the best way to spread business, and that's why we chose MLM" but ultimately, I'm still not convinced... lol.

Every smart person knows that deep down inside, people do things for selfish reasons so that knocks statement #1 out of the way. If they really want to "give back," they'd probably donate to charity, not start an MLM company.

As far as the word of mouth thing goes, yeah, that could be doable, but the most successful companies in existence today operate under the standard business model of traditional employment with in-house sales and marketing departments. We don't see Microsoft, Google, Apple, and Exxon Mobile jumping on the MLM train.

Good points.

I still haven't committed to anything yet -- just thought I'd think about it and maybe discuss it here a little bit. If I do get it on one, I'd definitely have to be relatively near the top, or it's a no-go. That alone probably says something, but hey, I never said that MLM can or will set everyone free. I believe, with the right timing and positioning, a reasonable amount of wealth can be created for certain people. The term "scammer," while certainly true in some cases, seems harsh to apply to everyone in the bubble altogether.

[Entelechy]

Originally Posted by Brutha

You have to understand what "most" means:
The nonprofit Consumer Awareness Institute analyzed available data published by the MLM companies themselves. Of the companies surveyed, they reported the least successful was Amway/Quixtar where 99.99% of distributors lose money, and the most successful was Herbalife, where 99.42% of distributors lose money.
The numbers for those distributors who make minimum wage for their time investment will be even lower.

I knew the numbers weren't pleasant (odds are always against success, aren't they?), but 99.99% is pretty sobering.

That being said, this is also a report on Amway. Amway is a company that I'm giving zero consideration into joining, as I've already pointed out.

I've also stated that most MLM "opportunities" are essentially crap, and have no intention of defending the industry as a whole (especially not Amway). I just think that with the right company, along with the right timing and positioning in said company, there is potential.

I appreciate your posts, Brutha. Not getting smart on you here, , just sharing my thoughts.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Entelechy

As far as the word of mouth thing goes, yeah, that could be doable, but the most successful companies in existence today operate under the standard business model of traditional employment with in-house sales and marketing departments. We don't see Microsoft, Google, Apple, and Exxon Mobile jumping on the MLM train.

Good points.

Another thing to consider is that the "grass roots" or "word of mouth" aspects of MLM aren't the goal. They're a side effect. It's possible, and indeed fairly easy, to create those effects in the context of a conventional sales and/or recruitment scheme. To use your examples Apple does it via the "fanboys" for sales, and Google does it via the "20% time" projects for engineer recruitment. In fact, the huge emphasis on recruitment in MLM takes away time that could be spent on grass roots selling. Of course, that makes sense given that the selling was never of any economic interest anyways.

[VinceG]

When I was in high school, I used to spend a lot of time in the arcade next to the supermarket where I bagged groceries. I played mostly Area 51. A guy started playing with me. I whooped his butt. Afterwards he wanted to talk to me about a business opportunity. He told me I was really smart and that's why he wanted to talk to me.

Turned out to be Amway/Quixstar. He took me to his house and showed me all kinds of literature and showed me a video. It was the first time I'd ever run into it. I asked my dad and mentors about it, they warned me against it. I did some research on the Internet and found some very good reasons why MLM doesn't typically work. I asked myself if I really wanted to sell these products.

I faced him down the next day and told him to take a hike.

It was the first, but not the last time I turned "opportunities" like that down.

As amazing human beings with the seed of God inside of all of us, we each have the capability to create our own opportunity. This will be far better than anything any silly company can shoehorn you into.

You just need to believe in yourself.

[Margarita888]

I've gotten involved in a few of these in my lifetime. I'd have some success selling the product, but I never really got into selling the "opportunity" side of it. For the most part, I felt like the products sold via network marketing/mlm while they are usually good quality, are more expensive than their more common counterparts. I haven't been involved in one in over 10 yrs now, but from watching other people get in/out of these things, it feels to me like you just end up being a glorified sales person for the company. I wouldn't really call it a business opportunity because you're not really in control of all the components. The only thing you're in control of are the people you sell the products/opportunity to, and you get a commission for doing so, which is exactly the same way salespeople are paid.

It's a great learning opportunity, but like almost anything, you get back what you put into it. And just like any business opportunity, to attain any kind of success with it, you have to put in extra-ordinary effort.

[NoJobRob]

MLM... LOL

I knew a guy back in Michigan who was ALWAYS trying that stuff. Quixtar, Gano Excel, Xango, you name it. He was a fast talker, a good sales person, and smart, but to my knowledge he hasn't succeeded in any of them. I have no idea how many thousands of dollars he's flushed down the toilet trying to get those "businesses" going...

[Clint Cora]

On a lighter, perhaps humourous note, I met a nice girl last year when the Millionaire Mind Intensive event rolled into town. Very nice personality and cute. Then she told me that her main business venture she's trying to make successful is a MML one. Well, I hate to admit it but that kind of turned me off!

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

On a lighter, perhaps humourous note, I met a nice girl last year when the Millionaire Mind Intensive event rolled into town. Very nice personality and cute. Then she told me that her main business venture she's trying to make successful is a MML one. Well, I hate to admit it but that kind of turned me off!

Don't just let it turn you off. RUN!

I only skimmed this thread but I can tell you MLMs are scams. I got into one of them many years ago and a friend tried to get me into another one years later. I used the opportunity to do some research. Turns out it's the same crap with different smells. Still...I have to admit I did learn a little something about human nature and group think. That's the only perspective under which I would suggest to someone they do some research on it. But if you do...Be very careful and very aware! Don't be afraid to ask the tough questions and don't be afraid to call out people's ******** when they spew it! Never take someone's word...Dig...And never ever just take the word of someone who is in an MLM scheme either. They're on an agenda.

Edit: When I say "you" I'm talking about the universal "you".

[russianrocket]

I've met plenty of people who have made good money from MLM's. All depends on the MLM. Also depends on the type of person you are. The majority of people who go into it, aren't made for it . Then you have the people who know a crap ton of people. They make really good money. There are ways of diong it honestly, but you don't make as much money.

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by MariconesUnited

Don't just let it turn you off. RUN!

She would never be able to sell me any of her MLM products anyway - they are for weight loss (and I have a 30 inch waistline).

I just don't want to get into any future tensions with her about my views on her MLM business. Too bad, otherwise she's probably a fine lady!

[MariconesUnited]

Originally Posted by russianrocket

I've met plenty of people who have made good money from MLM's. All depends on the MLM. Also depends on the type of person you are. The majority of people who go into it, aren't made for it . Then you have the people who know a crap ton of people. They make really good money. There are ways of diong it honestly, but you don't make as much money.

Of course they're out there! They're the product that these MLMs are selling! No one cares about some internet connection or some beauty product. They're all in it to be the next guy to go up onstage to brag about how he's rich and how he's not actually selling anything because he doesn't have to buy any inventory in the first place. Sigh.

I'm not saying you can't get rich through these systems. I'm saying odds are very strongly against it. And if you do make it, my first instinct would be to be wary of your ethics/morals. Sorry.