OMG, I got Job Offer ! and how now on $$$ ?

[DoggyLady]

I have a job offer!!! OMG.

This is the first time I worked on presenting confident self in job interviews. In my past job searches, I used to be a low confidence person.

so i'm excited about the outcome.

Anyway, they offered me a monthly salary which is a bit low for me. If the company does not have variable bonus, it would be a pay cut. But if it has good "variable bonuses" like many other companies in this industry, it can work out to have a annual pay that is higher than my previous job.

I can verify the company's historical variable bonus during my negotiation right?

This company is an European company, so they seemed to be concerned about "loyalty". So they also offer me a "lump sump payment" at the end of my probation period.

Pls advise on tips on salary negotiation! I am very nervous about this. I believe I have messed up one interview at a very good company previously, because I looked visibly nervous when they asked me, "is the amount negotiable?"

Another question is, I have a dance performance which I have already committed to, and for that, I have to take a one day leave soon (abt 2 weeks later) after I start this new job. So do I state it up front, or do I ask to take leave after I have already signed the contract?

[Curtis2011]

For negotiations, don't be afraid to "play hard ball" with it. Often times a company is willing to pay you far more than they initially offer.

And another thing is how you negotiate. A few months ago I read a great explanation by an HR manager of why men and women at his firm were paid incredibly different amounts of money, often for the same exact job.

The first reason was that when offered a salary, men were far more likely to initiate a negotiation for a higher one. So the first piece of advice (and just a good piece of advice in general) is to always negotiate your salary when you are starting a new job. A company is almost always willing to pay more than they initially offer, but they offer low amounts because they know that many people will just accept it.

The second reason women were paid less, was because of how they asked for higher salary. The HR guy said that most women who negotiated would say something very vague like "I'm sorry, but I was expecting a higher amount than that" or something similar, without requesting a specific amount of money. The guy said that his company had an internal policy of offering $3000 more per year if the new hire requested a higher salary. However, he said that in most cases, a man would state a specific higher salary that he wanted, and often would get it.

So for example, two people applying for the same level of position in the company would be offered $45,000 per year. The woman would say "I was really expecting more than that" and the company would offer $48,000, with the woman usually accepting. But the typical man would say something like "I was really hoping to get closer to $60,000 for this job, but I would be willing to settle for $55,000 at the very lowest" and the company would then offer him the job at $55,000. The HR guy talking about this said that the difference in salary negotiations was the #1 reason why men at his firm earned more than women. (Also he said that men were more likely to ask for raises and promotions, and do so more often).

Although I have been using the difference between men vs. women for this example, my point is that you can negotiate for much more than you think you can. I have heard stories of people just "going out on a limb" and asking for up to 50% more salary from their new employer, and getting it.

So, don't be afraid to ask for a higher salary.

[Aminka Ozmun]

Congratulations, DoggyLady!

And thanks for the great advice, Curtis, though I have to say that it's hard to apply because people such as myself dislike haggling so much. Yes, a self-limiting belief, and I hope to overcome it like DoggyLady one day!

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Aminka Ozmun

Congratulations, DoggyLady!

And thanks for the great advice, Curtis, though I have to say that it's hard to apply because people such as myself dislike haggling so much. Yes, a self-limiting belief, and I hope to overcome it like DoggyLady one day!

I am the same way usually. I like to avoid conflict.

But last year I took a negotiations class at college, and it was really cool learning negotiation methods and strategies and stuff like that.

It was taught by a guy who was a retired police negotiator, also a retired insurance claims negotiator. He would tell us stories of him literally haggling at Best Buy and other electronic shops for better deals. He said every time he purchased anything expensive such as a TV or laptop, or even a new cell phone plan, he would demand to talk to a manager and then proceed to haggle them down as much as possible. Apparently after they get tired of arguing with you, you can get a great deal

It was an awesome experience.

[aelle]

Good advice Curtis on naming actual numbers. Also a reason why you should study your company and industry a bit before walking into a negotiation, so that you don't cheat yourself out of money you could have asked for.

I'm about to embark on the same journey and my research tells me so far that in my target industry, recruiters tend to make an initial offer 30 to 40% lower than the amount they have actually budgeted for the candidate - and you can push for 50%. That's right, it's standard to ask for them to double their offer and get it.

DoggyLady, here's some reading material for you: How to Negotiate
How to negotiate better than 99% of people

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

It was taught by a guy who was a retired police negotiator, also a retired insurance claims negotiator. He would tell us stories of him literally haggling at Best Buy and other electronic shops for better deals. He said every time he purchased anything expensive such as a TV or laptop, or even a new cell phone plan, he would demand to talk to a manager and then proceed to haggle them down as much as possible. Apparently after they get tired of arguing with you, you can get a great deal

It was an awesome experience.

Uuuuurgh, I had a friend who did that on a regular basis for her grocey shopping. Once her weekly refill of articles were all scanned she'd ask for 10% off. Apparently it costs the supermarket more to waste time haggling (especially on Saturdays, at rush hour), to cancel your purchase and put everything back where it belongs (especially since they are legally required to throw away some products if they make it to the register) so she got her discount most times. I really hated going with her though, as I felt really bad for the poor cashier and the people waiting.

[Criseyde]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

I am the same way usually. I like to avoid conflict.

But last year I took a negotiations class at college, and it was really cool learning negotiation methods and strategies and stuff like that.

It was taught by a guy who was a retired police negotiator, also a retired insurance claims negotiator. He would tell us stories of him literally haggling at Best Buy and other electronic shops for better deals. He said every time he purchased anything expensive such as a TV or laptop, or even a new cell phone plan, he would demand to talk to a manager and then proceed to haggle them down as much as possible. Apparently after they get tired of arguing with you, you can get a great deal

It was an awesome experience.

Wow, I didn't even know you could do that at retailers. I thought the prices were fixed. If you're selling 10,000 of something per week, why does it matter if one person doesn't buy it? Interesting.

[DoggyLady]

I met up the employer today.

The package is bettter than I expected!!!!

Such that my plans to negotiate fell through.

The money is GOOD. Too good to be true.

The only thing is that,the annual leave is very little. Especially since this job expected to have more overtime work.

only 14 days per year. I got 16 days in previous job. In my heart, I want 18 days. My best friend has .... jeez ... 28 days in her job.

Hm.... I told them, I will wait a day to think over.

I'm afraid to negotiate for annual leave. Do I thank my lucky stars for the money compensation and shut up? or do I ask for more annual leave? Cos personal time is important for me.

My justification that i can think of is, that most executives get 18 days on average according to statistics.

Their policy is 14 days, and then 21 days upon 5 years in job.

I am going to ask the HR lady when she returns to work on Friday... but i'm all nervous !!!!

[Clint Cora]

For your dance day, definitely state it up front. As for the initial lower pay rate, don't worry about it -- build a good track record with them and then in the future, you can negotiate a higher rate. The most important thing for you right now is to build that record to prove to the company what you can do.

[DoggyLady]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

For your dance day, definitely state it up front. As for the initial lower pay rate, don't worry about it -- build a good track record with them and then in the future, you can negotiate a higher rate. The most important thing for you right now is to build that record to prove to the company what you can do.

i'm wondering whether to negotiate for the annual leave now, or when i review after probation.

[Aminka Ozmun]

I'm curious, too, Criseyde, and actually surprised any national retailer's managers would care. I hope Curtis follows up on our bewilderment!

Curtis, my father was actually just like that. He's an immigrant and back in the old country that's how things are done, apparently: constant haggling. It was embarrassing as a kid to have your old man negotiating everything from carrots and karate classes to, yes, TVs and videogames.

[Clint Cora]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

i'm wondering whether to negotiate for the annual leave now, or when i review after probation.

If you have a certain date that you must be away, always state that upfront as early as possible.

[Yunique]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

I have a job offer!!! OMG.

WTG

Lots of good advice given, wish you lots of luck in your new role!

[CoolBee]

That's great news!
Definitely request the day off before you start - maybe say it's for a pre-existing appointment and don't specify dance unless you are pushed!
Perhaps say that you are willing to take it as unpaid (a) so you don't cut into your small amount of official leave and (b) might make them more relaxed about it.
Once you start, believe me it will be harder to ask for!

[DoggyLady]

i've asked for more annual leave. I said I would like 18 days, but 16 is also ok.

But then, it didn't work. The HR gave excuses of "eveyrbody here start with 14 days. we don't give exceptions. it wouldn't be fair. even your team leader has 14 days despite working here for 3 years already."

Sigh.

I don't know whether to congratulate myself for having asked anyway, or to feel disappointed.

Anyway, I have told them about the prior commitment that i cannot change and that i would be taking an unpaid leave.

Thanks everybody for the contributions.

In all, I am happy about the generous monetary compensation. It is going to change my life.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

i've asked for more annual leave. I said I would like 18 days, but 16 is also ok.

But then, it didn't work. The HR gave excuses of "eveyrbody here start with 14 days. we don't give exceptions. it wouldn't be fair. even your team leader has 14 days despite working here for 3 years already."

Sigh.

I don't know whether to congratulate myself for having asked anyway, or to feel disappointed.

Anyway, I have told them about the prior commitment that i cannot change and that i would be taking an unpaid leave.

Thanks everybody for the contributions.

In all, I am happy about the generous monetary compensation. It is going to change my life.

If they are inflexible on one specific point (which is understandable if their rules don't allow it) you can always use this to negociate another point - salary, bonus, medical leave, flexible hours, other perks like a work phone or a new laptop...
If the leave is important to you, bring it up again 6 months or 1 year in.

Be totally proud of yourself that you even tried, and remember that it's a learning process for the rest of your career!

[neilward2]

Originally Posted by Criseyde

Wow, I didn't even know you could do that at retailers. I thought the prices were fixed. If you're selling 10,000 of something per week, why does it matter if one person doesn't buy it? Interesting.

Everything is negotiable - even the Courts and Government.

[neilward2]

Originally Posted by DoggyLady

i've asked for more annual leave. I said I would like 18 days, but 16 is also ok.

But then, it didn't work. The HR gave excuses of "eveyrbody here start with 14 days. we don't give exceptions. it wouldn't be fair. even your team leader has 14 days despite working here for 3 years already."

Sigh.

I don't know whether to congratulate myself for having asked anyway, or to feel disappointed.

Anyway, I have told them about the prior commitment that i cannot change and that i would be taking an unpaid leave.

Thanks everybody for the contributions.

In all, I am happy about the generous monetary compensation. It is going to change my life.

Don't give up, you can easily negotiate this! This is what I would do...

Step 1: Do a favour for the person that has the power to make the decision. Just yesterday, I brought in a bag of M n M's and offered them around, 1 man in particular took some that I needed a favour from (which he did)
Step 2: Be very polite and nice, complimentary in fact.
Step 3: Start telling him/her about your dance thing.
Step 4: Explain the holiday problem and ask using these exact words: "is it within your power to resolve this problem?" - this then talks directly with that person's ego/character, whatever you want to call the little voice in your head which need's to prove itself.
Step 5: Say nothing and let them answer.
Step 6: Answer any questions or objections that come up.
Step 7: Say thank you and take whatever they give you.
Don't ever get emotional, be overly friendly and whatever the outcome - it's not a big deal, at least you tried.

Done.

[DoggyLady]

Originally Posted by neilward2

Don't give up, you can easily negotiate this! This is what I would do...

Step 1: Do a favour for the person that has the power to make the decision. Just yesterday, I brought in a bag of M n M's and offered them around, 1 man in particular took some that I needed a favour from (which he did)
Step 2: Be very polite and nice, complimentary in fact.
Step 3: Start telling him/her about your dance thing.
Step 4: Explain the holiday problem and ask using these exact words: "is it within your power to resolve this problem?" - this then talks directly with that person's ego/character, whatever you want to call the little voice in your head which need's to prove itself.
Step 5: Say nothing and let them answer.
Step 6: Answer any questions or objections that come up.
Step 7: Say thank you and take whatever they give you.
Don't ever get emotional, be overly friendly and whatever the outcome - it's not a big deal, at least you tried.

Done.

thank you, i guess the lady i spoke with didn't have the pwoer. after i start work with the company and i've to find out who has the power above her.
and then follow your steps.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by aelle

I'm about to embark on the same journey ...

First salary negotiation was yesterday. I went in there with my initial numbers in mind (let's say, 100 to 120). I managed to do all the right things, like not name my current salary, explain that I'm leaving because I am underpaid, not sell myself short, get their salary range first. And then I hear myself blurt: "Look, I was really hoping to look into the 90 range, but am willing to work for 80". WTF? What happened to 120?
Took me a few minutes to realize I had flaked, and a couple hours to realize why. Turns out the guy who had done the salary negotiations was the best English speaker of everyone I had met in the company so far (including colloquialisms and jokes, so we connected well), the one who had been most helpful, who would take care of my visa, housing etc if I took the position, so we had a really friendly connection. And then he had all the right body language that made me feel "poor dude, I'm going to put you in a difficult position if I ask for too much". I know they totally lowballed me, but I expected a tough negociator, not someone I'd empatize with so much.

Well played, Korea, well played.

[BellyGirl]

Originally Posted by aelle

First salary negotiation was yesterday. I went in there with my initial numbers in mind (let's say, 100 to 120). I managed to do all the right things, like not name my current salary, explain that I'm leaving because I am underpaid, not sell myself short, get their salary range first. And then I hear myself blurt: "Look, I was really hoping to look into the 90 range, but am willing to work for 80". WTF? What happened to 120?
Took me a few minutes to realize I had flaked, and a couple hours to realize why. Turns out the guy who had done the salary negotiations was the best English speaker of everyone I had met in the company so far (including colloquialisms and jokes, so we connected well), the one who had been most helpful, who would take care of my visa, housing etc if I took the position, so we had a really friendly connection. And then he had all the right body language that made me feel "poor dude, I'm going to put you in a difficult position if I ask for too much". I know they totally lowballed me, but I expected a tough negociator, not someone I'd empatize with so much.

Well played, Korea, well played.

oh aelle, that's happened to me before too.

I worked out my sums before, but when asked the question, I answered completely different.

We have to learn to be "meaner".

[BellyGirl]

i start work tomorrow.