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08-05-2011, 10:33 AM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 293
 |  It's time to leave SBI! and Join Wordpress
So, I've been talking about this on and off for a while now... I've finally made the decision that it's time to leave SBI. Firstly: I HIGHLY recommend SBI to a newbie who want's to get started on the web, the tools and articles are great to teach you about everything from niche selection, SEO to Monitization. They also have traffic stats and social media sharing buttons so they can be quite useful too. The reason I'm leaving: I find the whole thing just too slow and clunky. And the main reason is design wise, I'm really taken by the WP templates that I've seen, the design is just prefect in my eyes for what I want to set-up for my site. Ok, so my traffic may drop, but so what? Most SBIers I know don't convert more than 1% of their traffic anyway! The 2 and 3 column designs are outdated now and potential customers want to see quality design, not some poorly designed site template from 1995... (mine included) So my new plan is to create a 5 step system for anyone that lands on my site using the WP awesome design model with the sliding image that you see as soon as you land on the page. It will say, step 1 do this, step 2 do that. I've had massive success with this on another of my sites using a WP template. I've also discovered through market research and surveys that people don't like my design theme and they preferred the theme of my competitors (who use WP) - so it can't be a co-incidence. If SBI would use WP templates, I would almost certainly stay with them. We've asked Ken Evoy on so many occasions why he doesn't let us use a WP template, but he has never answered the question, why? We've asked him all sorts of questions which he never answers, why? Other reasons: Support takes too long to get back to you, IMO Ken created the forums so that he wouldn't have to pay for proper support - in effect, other people are giving advice and acting as his support for FREE! Very clever model but I don't like it, I want proper support and I don't think that you should have to pay for it through coaching @$100 an hour which I still believe is too expensive for what it is. None of the coaches are properly qualified to be coaches anyway! I questioned the business model behind the coaching and got told to shut up basically... Overall, SBI reminds me of a weird (non violent) cult, much like a religion really - the people that use it seem to defend it at any cost! It's so odd to hear people talking the way they do... I've even seen it on this forum too... it seems to be spreading. And the truth is that it makes me feel really uncomfortable, I'm all about teaching people to think for themselves - and this seems to go against that. Here's an example of what I mean: Person 1: I used SBI but the email didn't work so I tried to contact support but they took 4 days to get back to me. Person 2: Wow, SBI! is the most amazing thing ever and it has really helped me to build a site with high traffic and make $200 a month selling books! Ken is such a great man and I owe him everything! SBI! is about to launch XYZ! tool soon, I can't wait! What has this reply got to do with ANYTHING? It is like talking about your car breaking down and someone tells you how great their motorbike is... ADDRESS THE PROBLEM! STOP ACTING SO WEIRD! The forums: I spent a lot of time talking about how to build huge lists by using social media, Facebook, Twitter, Linked In, Youtube, Fiverr, and all sorts of external tools like video creation and then pixel pipe to make it go viral and then capture leads into my Awebber list. I got absolutley HAMMERED by people on the SBI forum, and I mean serious abuse to my email inbox afterwards. The main problem was that my method wasn't in the action guide, so it was wrong apparently??? Then the fact that I used an SEO company was branded as stupid and my site would crash and burn... but the exact opposite happened. Ken made it worse by backing up the idiots who were attacking me by asking me to 'prove it' - so I did! Guess what happened next? I was branded a show off! lol, and 'how dare I question Ken Evoy's integrity!' - this is the cult like society I refer to - it's just weird... I wish people would just accept that something can be done better, hold their hands up and say: "ok, good point, we'll look into it" - too much ego and pride in my opinion. Oh and did I mention that a few months later, I saw that SBI started using FB and all sorts of other social media tools like I said - I thought I was wrong in what I was saying, no?  next: the email is a 1/10 on a scale of quality... seriously poor! Now I have been forced to pay for email! Which I found annoying... I was wondering why I didn't get any email for 7 weeks (I was away travelling and didn't care too much) but on my return, my forms had just stopped working! Annoying. Then once up and running again, oh what's this? I now need to pay for an external email service... what a load of rubbish! The last one worked just fine (with all my re-directs and work arounds) - now I have to add even more garbage to get this operational. I keep highlighting all these issues over and over again but no one seem's to be paying any attention and it's costing SBI clients/members. I really can't get my head around why our points get burned or brushed to one side if we go against SBI in even the slightest way... it makes no sense to me. Does anyone else have a view on any of this... I'd like to know if it's just me who thinks like this?! |
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08-05-2011, 11:35 AM
| #2 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 212
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SBI has always seemed strange to me. Too focused on generating content to make traffic and affiliate market. Do you plan on hosting wordpress.org on a website, or getting a wordpress blog at wordpress.com? Last edited by Artelus; 08-05-2011 at 11:41 AM. |
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08-05-2011, 05:24 PM
| #3 (permalink) | ||
| Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 197
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Seriously though, I think their point is alot of stuff online is just ... well ... crap. So, what Sitesell will do is try it out first to see if it works, and if it does then add it to the Action Guide. The point being to prevent you from wasting time on stuff that may or may not work. Still, they could've been a little nice towards you. You know one of the things that really bothers me about SBI (or at least the Action Guide) is the failure = bad, I keep getting out of it. There's nothing wrong with failure, in fact failure is a part of the process to success! Neil, you were willing to try out new things (the SEO company, social media) and take a chance at failure and that's why you've had such great success. SBI, unfortunately, only wants what is known to work, which is good on one hand, but means there are many methods out there that work that they'll never know because it hasn't been tried yet. I wish SBI was a little more open and flexible. | ||
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08-13-2011, 01:24 PM
| #5 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Down the infinite rabbit hole
Posts: 1,575
 | Quote:
Does SBI give you control over the DNS? If so, you could actually point the existing domain to a new host/site, and it would be in effect in a few hours. If I were in your position, right now I'd be registering a domain with a similar name to the original one, and setting up a quick and dirty information page with all the basics and some information apologising for the weird website situation (with assurances that a new site is in the works). Even if you're not a web design expert, you should be able to work up something in a hurry (WordPress is extremely easy to install, by the way, when you have a proper host, and many web hosts will install it for you free of charge or provide you with a super-easy installer system to do it). It's not the ideal way to move sites, of course, but in my mind, it beats being dead in the water when you've got something important going on. | |
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08-13-2011, 11:54 PM
| #6 (permalink) |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 636
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I would like to add some balance to this thread, please don't think me rude if I just summarize my points to save time... 1. SBI is not a cult - that would imply users are spellbound to obsess over a business model that doesn't work. If on the other hand, it works (teaches you how to make a living online) then these users have every justification in liking and praising its services. You can be objective about a business model. It ain't religion. 2. I'm sorry you've had some bad experiences in the SBI forums. Justhoping is right in that SBI focuses on what works, because for the noob it just doesn't pay to make the same dummy mistakes over and over. They weren't ready for your insights on social media, good or bad. You were just ahead of your time  3. I am yet to read a totally objective critique of SBI and so every time someone slags it off I feel they are a) skewing the facts in their favor to make it sound worse than it really is and b) making assumptions while giving SBI no counter-argument in the matter. That's sad because it wastes everyone's time while not actually revealing any truth, or worse, misleading potential SBI-users away from this excellent resource. (Oops, I said it was excellent - bring on the Kool-aid!) Seriously, just remember that SBI is a business, just like yours, which has done a lot of great things for a lot of people. Why tear that success down? You said you still highly recommend it to newbies, yet in the same post describe it as a cult - with bad customer service! Tell us what you REALLY think! Bottom line: for many, SBI represents creative and financial freedom - and despite the niggles it's a system that works. No-one's perfect, so don't trash it in public without REAL reason. 4. Caterpillar, I'm sorry but you are too suspicious! There is no way SBI would kill Neil's paid-for website because he said negative things about them. That would only add fuel to the fire, plus it would show a complete lack of moral integrity and what business could thrive with that kind of attitude and disrespect for its customers? Incidentally, his site is now back up and I would be curious as to what the glitch really was, as this has never happened to me with SBI. Thanks for listening to my counter rant... Rebecca |
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08-14-2011, 02:00 AM
| #7 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Home
Posts: 2,578
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You're probably way more skilled than the average SBI user. I know nothing of SEO and other things like that, and were I to start an online business, I would certainly go to SBI first before going anywhere else, because I've looked at the hours of videos they have on how to create your website, and it all seems to make perfect sense to me. The whole problem is that I don't want to create a niche website. My old site is a mixture of so many topics and I would rather have a site that isn't so one-dimensional. Even a website about just PD would bore me to tears after awhile, so I'd want to move on to something different on the creation side. But when I finally resolve to quit my night job, or possibly before I do that, I might give SBI a shot just to see if I can make a decent amount of money with it. I'm talking at least $3000 a month or so. I don't think it is a cult, but when people pay a small amount for great results, you're going to see people who truly defend the method of their success. And why wouldn't they? But, you're probably better off without them now, because now you know what it is you need to know to run a successful online business. Quite simply, I think you have outgrown SBI...which is great. |
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08-14-2011, 03:24 AM
| #8 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,690
| Quote:
Just because it doesn't fit your view of what SBI is, and just because I said I didn't prefer SBI, doesn't mean it wasn't an objective critique. In fact, many people PMed me about my posts pertaining to SBI and wordpress telling me how they appreciated my very balanced and realistic take on SBI and wordpress. | |
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08-14-2011, 10:37 PM
| #9 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 636
| Quote:
 Credit due, yours was a very thorough review, albeit coming from the viewpoint of someone who has moved past the need for SBI. Yours needs are more aligned with what WordPress offers, based on what you said (if I remember right, your main complaint with SBI was the technology was too basic and inflexible - I would argue that's because it was created for technophobes and total beginners in site building). Hence - as someone who is looking for a WordPress type of product - the lack of objectivity. Remember WP and SBI are not directly comparable. | |
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08-15-2011, 11:44 PM
| #10 (permalink) | ||
| Member Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 40
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Hi Neil Yes I have a view on what you're saying. Quote:
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I don't agree with the things you say about Ken, but that's because I've been around for several years and have watched him in action. The guy works his guts out. I don't think he sleeps much. I certainly couldn't work as hard as he does. And no, it's not a cult. And no, I'm not a cult member. It's tight knit group, one that focuses on postivity. And no, your site doesn't get shut down just because you have a different viewpoint. SBI is actually much more open and transparent than I would be. I recall the thread in the SBI forums to which you are referring. I also recall what Ken said to you. You received many responses to your post. Those responses contained varied opinions and views, most of them very, very well-stated. I wouldn't call that hammering. I remember what you said and I remember what Ken said, too. You already know most of this, because this was said to you. Site Build It is a specific ebusiness system (not a mere site-builder). The SBI forums are private forums set up for the sole purpose to foster camaraderie and support for those learning and using SBI. That's not for any reason other than to create a nurturing environment that helps people succeed with SBI. The responses in that thread covered this and many of the complaints you are stating here today. What you are not revealing is that you were a teeny bit inflammatory in your posts. But that was all back in October. Almost a year ago now. What I don't understand is why you're dragging this out. If you don't like SBI, you are free to go. Don't be unhappy, just go and do what you want to do. | ||
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08-16-2011, 04:33 PM
| #11 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Down the infinite rabbit hole
Posts: 1,575
| Quote:
Look, I don't know anything about SBI. I've never had a website with them, I have never seen their forums. I have no idea how they run their business. BUT... I've been on the net quite a long time, and I've seen all kinds of strange things, including businesses who would kill a client site if they felt the client was giving them too much "bad press". I've never thought it made much sense, but I have seen it, and more than once, which is why I mentioned it at all. If SBI are all above board and professional, well, good on them, and I wish them many long years of happy business to come! I have no opinion of them one way or the other. So, hey, apologies if I offended anyone with my "been on the net too long and now I'm kinda jaded" musings. It wasn't personal. | |
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08-16-2011, 06:04 PM
| #12 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,690
| Quote:
I'm somebody who has used the following CMS: Wordpress Joomla Vbulletin CMS SBI Microsoft Frontpage Dreamweaver And I made my review based on using those and decided that Wordpress was the best, most user-friendly out of all of them. I'd say that's pretty objective. It's just that it just so happens that SBI likes to do the whole SBI vs.Wordpress comparison thingie and when I say Wordpress is better than SBI, that triggers something in SBI peeps. Not exactly sure why. When I say I like wordpress the best, it's because I've used a ton of different CMSes and that it's, in my opinion of course, the most powerful CMS that's there today. | |
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08-17-2011, 11:54 PM
| #13 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Anguilla
Posts: 10
| Most Powerful CMS vs. Most Powerful EGS...
Hi Neil, I'm sorry to lose you over the template designs. I don't know if you've seen the iDesign3 designs. People love them. And the CSS file that drives it all is incredibly flexible. You can can design anything with it. Or you can use any one of millions of templates if you do your own HTML. And you DO do your own HTML. Wordpress templates, though, are technically incompatible with SBI!. You can take elements of ANY WP template, though, and work it into an iDesign3-driven template. But the two system's templates are not interchangeable. In any event, you've got a decent-looking site... Dating Coach | London's Top Dating Advice Could it be better? Sure? Does the site itself follow the AG as good as it could be doing? No. But the site looks reasonable enough, similar to what many other SBIers build but not as sharp as those who are more design-oriented. -- Much of your post is presented as fact, Neil, when it's actually opinion, and often inaccurate and self-contradicting (why would you recommend newbies to a cult?). And then there are the statements that are not true. One example... "We've asked [Ken] all sorts of questions which he never answers, why?" I've made almost 8000 posts to the forums, questions ranging from the big-picture "where's the Web going" to "why doesn't this _______ work." If you asked 10,000 SBIers whether they were content with my presence in the forums, I can't believe that one would say "he never answers questions." Do I answer EVERY question? Nope, I can't see them all. And if I did, I'd be dead. It's not possible. I don't think any CEO participates as much as I do, not with little-nothings but often with big, meaty posts, analysis of a site, or new topics such as Google Recipes, etc. -- Based on the rest of your post about SiteSell (bad Support, "cult," etc., etc.), this statement of your strikes me as odd.... "If SBI would use WP templates, I would almost certainly stay with them." Stay with us for 100 other reasons, Neil, but not that one. ;-) Stay with us because your traffic is steadily growing after two years. You show a solid pattern and should have an excellent next 12 months despite the very competitive niche (dating). But don't stay with us for templates. -- Regarding Support... I remember this one. You wrote me at my special address where folks can reach me if they are not happy with support. I checked into this at the time. Support let you down, no doubt about it, a misunderstanding if I remember correctly, about you wanting to move your site. It was fixed, we extended you a free month, and we took measures to make sure the error never happens again. I see these, Neil, because you e-mailed me. I really do see those and I push hot buttons to get things DONE right when we err. I get 1-2 per week out of 40,000+ clients. Support is normally terrific. It's not typical. I'm sorry about that. (We do get many more kudos than complaints and our QA rates are near-zero -- one person screens 10% of all outgoing e-mail and delivers a QA report for quality and grammar/formatting.) -- Regarding the forums... I see multiple removals of posts of yours deleted for self-promotions. That is a strict no-no in many serious forums, ours included. Overall, let's just say that folks got tired of your "kvetching." You're right, you're probably not a fit. It does not make a group bad or nasty, nor you. Just not a fit. -- Regarding "cult" -- Mac fans form a cult, too. Try attacking a Mac and see what Mac fans say when they disagree. That does not make them creepy or dangerous. It's magical, in my book. When you make a product that genuinely changes lives for the better, one that is different than anything else out there, you develop raving fans, rather than merely satisfied customers. We're not for everyone, though, and apparently not for you. As long as you're not using the word "cult" in some sort of creepy religious/derogatory way, I agree with you... Folks love SBI!. There's nothing else remotely cultish about SBIers. -- There is no reason to pay money for e-mail. Like most hosts nowadays, we suggest you use gmail Apps and get YOUR DOMAIN-based e-mail through Google. They have the best interface, bar none. The module we created to do that makes it a snap to transfer your domain over to gMail for web-based e-mail (with YOUR domain). -- I'm sorry that your traffic is not higher after 2 years, Neil. You chose a tough niche, dating. With only 150 pages in a very competitive niche, you've got a long way to go no matter what site you are using. But you ARE on your way. And I wish you well with the site, elsewhere. Obviously, you and SBI! are not right for each other. -- Your posy focus on the wrong things, though, Neil (aside from our gaff in Support). No other product delivers all that SBI! does, at the price that it does. More importantly, none delivers success at the pace that SBI! does. If they do, they'd be promoting it. And no one else is. Just one small example of what a great product engenders... our SiteSell Facebook page is up to 30,000 fans (I was hoping for 20,000 by the end of December). More importantly, you simply can't have such a genuinely positive environment if you have a bad product. Companies with bad products die the death of a thousand cuts on FB. -- To "JustHoping"... I'm not sure I see the matter with taking what's been proven to work and integrating it into a system that works. We also, though, have numerous firsts. There are times to lead and times to follow. The only thing that does NOT change is our goal.. SBIer success. -- Well, I hope that balances things out, corrects mis-statements and admits where we goofed (and will do better next time). You may not like SBI!, but for anyone who wants to build a genuine, profitable e-business, there's no better product (unless you've got Venture Cap behind you and a billion-dollar idea, of course!). ;-) All the best, Ken P.S. Rebecca, thanks very much for the kind words. And just to balance this thread out some more, her are a couple of other posts by other SBIers originally referred by Steve Pavlina that came into the forums... Even With All The Mistakes, My Future Is Clear No Such Thing As Luck With E-business Success P.P.S. James81, you're confusing SBI! with a CMS when SBI! merely HAS a CMS (and will surpass Wordpress in slickness AND simplicity with the release of BlockBuilder 2). Compared to SBI!, Wordpress is incredibly complicated. I know, I just set up a blog for my daughter who is starting a news-oriented site. What a nightmare -- yes, it's easy to install but then the headaches begin, much harder than SBI! (which you don't even install, let alone have to need to play with CSS, PHP, other scripts, nor figure out which is the best of each type of plug-in, many costing money, and on and on and on). And cost? Start with $100 for hosting and $90 for a template and you only have $100 left for everything else that is in SBI!. That said, I do LOVE blogging for certain purposes... 1) I subscribe to over 200 of them for any news related to small biz online (whether that's tech, marketing, e-biz, SEO, etc., etc.). I don't know if they make any money from the visitor's "come, read the latest, and go" model, but I appreciate the good, free info. 2) for publishers, it's THE best format for news and editorial type sites. -- But put everything I've said about WP so far aside for a moment... I agree with you 100% when you way that Wordpress is the most powerful CMS. So what? A powerful Content Management System is like a "powerful pen." So we'll concede the most powerful CMS title. But SBI! is, by far, ***the most powerful EGS*** out there (E-Business Growing System). No other organization comes close to our rate and levels of success by the "ordinary" person. We could debate all night on this, but here's the bottom line... It's not about the CMS software, it's about all the work you do before you pick a niche and all the work you do do while and after building content. I could write pages more here, but I'll stop. There's just no other place to get it all in ONE spot... process, tools, info and help in one place. For example, James81, your site powerofhow.net does NOT do as well as the average SBI! site, based on data from Compete (unknown), Alexa (>3,000,000), Doubleclick Ad Planner and ranking.com (unknown), etc. And mathrant.com is worse -- unknown to all. I guess that brings me to the final point. It's not which CMS you use... it's everything else that is in SBI! that helps everyday people (and techie-types who don't succeed) build profitable online businesses. So here's the real final bottom line, it could not be simpler... If you've tried Wordpress and failed or if you have yet to succeed online, try SBI!. You can't lose with the 90-day trial, guaranteed. On the other hand, if you ARE successful, you don't need anything other than what you're already doing. |
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08-18-2011, 12:14 AM
| #14 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,690
| Quote:
As far as wordpress being a nightmare to manage, that's just because you aren't familiar with it. I had the same struggle with your blockbuilder in SBI. Except now that I know how to use both, I find wordpress much more user-friendly. The most common critique (feedback) you get about SBI is that it's CMS is clunky (and most people don't want to use HTML pages because they aren't web designers and it can be a lot of work to set up pages to do that (and to upload them for that matter). I quit SBI because I outgrow it very quickly. Once I learned the tricks and tips in your action guide, I saw that there was little else I could glean from it. In that sense, I still recommend SBI as more of a course on how to properly build a website and add content. Once you learn that stuff, it becomes a huge waste of money to keep hosting the site at SBI because you can do everything you teach in a CMS (not just wordpress but any CMS such as Joomla or vbulletin). And you can do it for cheaper. And you can add whatever content you want (i.e. videos, pictures, podcasts, etc.). I also recommend SBI for the Brainstorm it! feature, but I've found other sites and places that can do that for peeps too (for free). To set up a wordpress site costs the price of a domain name plus hosting (which, for starting sites, totals up to about $100 with Hostgator). I don't recommend people to buy a template with wordpress considering there are hundreds (if not thousands) of free, professional-looking templates available already. If you notice the template on powerofhow, that was a completely free template. It's not flashy or anything, but I think it looks professional enough (and modern enough). Personally, I think you ought to consider dropping the comparison to wordpress, man. In fact, I think you could integrate it with SBI and you'd take away the thing that 90% of people who LEAVE SBI complain about. To continue the competition with wordpress is really just shooting yourself in the foot. *shrug* | |
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08-18-2011, 12:24 AM
| #15 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,690
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I also notice that the two people (here on this forum) who strongly promote SBI, don't even use it anymore (or have never really used it in the first place). The first, of course, is Steve (who runs a wordpress based site I might add  ). I've no evidence that he's even used SBI.The other, and your most stauch supporter here, is Rebecca. And while her lucid dreaming site (in her sig) looks like an SBI site, a simple whois search shows that she's using bluehost. So, I don't think it's too far a stretch to say that SBI is something that's great for n00bs, but it's also something you outgrow. I think if you want to retain people, then you might start considering offering a reason for them to continue to host with you once they've learned the information you provide. |
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08-18-2011, 01:53 AM
| #16 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Whatever will be, already is
Posts: 1,466
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I must chime in that I am a total noob when it comes to website, and I went with WP because I like the templates (I paid for a pro one)and I also am bartering with a designer who helped get me started. He is a friend too. I can honestly say that I wish I went with SBI to start with, I have made every mistake in the book, and my site is just bad. I have notebooks of content yet to put up because I don't know how to organize it. As a result I am doing poorly. So, I agree with james that SBI might be better for the noobs like me  |
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08-18-2011, 11:20 AM
| #17 (permalink) | |
| Senior Member Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 440
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If however you have 'grown out' of SBI and want more advanced features that wordpress can offer then you can still get a lot of value from SBI from the education and keyword research tools - although there are alternatives. I had an SBI site a few years ago and cancelled my subscription because after about 2 years it wasn't paying for itself so I made a business decision to knock it on the head. I don't blame the tools, it was my choice of niche/keywords that just wasn't profitable. My suggestion to the OP is to look at the cost/profit of your SBI investment and make a decision based on that. Is it making or costing you money? Because if it's profitable and getting traffic (that must have taken time to build up) why not look at your keyword list and make a wordpress site as well? Most successful internet marketers make their money of several sites not just the 1. For a complete beginner SBI was perfect for me, I don't think it's a cult although it has a very vibrant community that will rush to it's defence - I was one of them once myself. While it is a great tool I disagree with the notion that it is the 'only' tool which was perpetuated quite a bit. I do miss it and may even come back when my trading business alllows me to only work a few hours a week. I'm using wordpress now because I'm on about my 15th website but if i could go back to the beginnning and start over I'd probably make an SBI site about trading. That being said I'm very happy with wordpress + market samurai + aweber. | |
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08-18-2011, 12:42 PM
| #18 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Anguilla
Posts: 10
| Already Successful? Don't Use SBI!.
Hi James, The fact is that the sites that YOU choose to feature in your sig stack up horribly against SBI!. Why don't you post every other site you own and let's put them up against SBI!? Let me see YOUR track record of success, James. And, no, Wordpress really is a nightmare to set up. It would be just as much of a pain the next time I try to set one up. The free templates just don't get it right, there is too much missing, to much to re-write. Even Thesis has errors. And the fact is that the free keyword tools don't deliver all the process and info SBI!'s Brainstormer does. Ours not only draws from two keyword databases (Wordtracker's and our own massive db which our SBIder pulls from the Web) to deliver the most accurate numbers AND the best and largest set of keywords, its functionality is designed to fit perfectly in to the CTPM process. And that's one big key to SBI!... it all fits together... information and process, tools, guidance and help... into one do-able package. The next two releases of Brainstorm It! integrate more and more into the website, letting you know such things as the next keyword to write about, pages that would rank higher with an inbound link, etc. It's actually going to start structuring the site for users. We can do that because ALL tools tie into ONE database. All SBI! tools know what the others do, so the automation and the degree to which they will talk to each other and help SBIers is going to be pretty amazing going forward. SBI! allows us to do things automatically behind the scenes that only top pros do and don't talk about (SBIers never even see any of this). It would be amazingly tedious to do some of the things that SBI! goes about quietly (and totally legally -- we NEVER do anything blackhat). Here it is, James... You CAN waste your time trying to find a bunch of free tools, but it will simply never come close to the functionality and the bottom line of what SBI! delivers... Unmatched success. Go ahead, James... show me ONE system that provides as much proof of success as SBI! - Proof Of Success or that has a Facebook page that has the energy and spirit of SiteSell | Facebook Quit talking and show me proven success of any other system. The success rate of no system? Of "WP and free hosting and do your best out there?" Dismal. Listen, if you're happy with those two sites in your sig, James, if that's your definition of success, go to it with Wordpress. Show me how you build those up likes these folks who, I'm sure, know much less than you... Site Build It! Results SBIers prefer to succeed. Outgrow SBI!? Almost 60% now own more than 1 SBI!. They understand that $29.99 per month or $299 per year (which is what folks usually end up moving to as their sites become profitable) is nothing compared to having a profitable website that does not fall apart because they "don't work on it for a few months." Most folks never "outgrow" SBI!. They do the process, make money and buy another one to start a second business. Unlike your site James, if they don't work on one for "a few months," traffic does not drop to near-zero levels. Evergreen sites that are well-built LAST. That allows them to grow another. Some folks, a very small percentage, DO grow their sites to the point that they want to do things that SBI! does not enable. For example, they want to write some sophisticated, database-driven scripts. 99% don't need that, never will, since SBI! has already delivered all of what most folks need. Rebecca is a GREAT example. She's a huge SBI! fan, even though she needed more. I'm proud that we played a big role in helping her on her way. By the time she moved, her traffic was quantum levels above yours, James. You just have no idea how routine success is at SBI!. All the best, Ken P.S. Regarding the CMS being clunky, it really does NOT make much difference to you that SBIers end up with thousands of visitors per day, does it? It's the results that count. In any event... BlockBuilder 2 is getting close to release. A massive project that has nearly $2 Million in it, it has to tie into every other tool, just like BlockBuilder 1. It's late, heading for a fall release, but it's going to be like a combination of the best of WP, Weebly and Yola. So for those folks who focus on "form" over results, you're about to see a state-of-the art builder. In all fairness, it really will be more fun to work with this builder and will have a whole lot more functionality. But you're still going to use all the other tools, too, to build your success. P.P.S. As for Steve not using SBI!... 1) it did not exist when he started and 2) have you read his review about that?... Site Build It There is a very small percentage of folks who can actually figure this all out on their own... 1) Read the right information. 2) Piece it all together in your head. 3) Have enough understanding to figure out the search engines. 4) And on and on and on, I could list 50 here. Steve tried to explain "how he did it" to friends. They couldn't do it. Smart people like Steve figure others can do it like he did. He's forgotten how much he does right. It's built into his DNA now and the snowball just grows and grows. But most folks can't do what Steve did. THAT is the whole premise of what SBI! is built upon. If we can give the info-process-tools-guidance-help, constantly updated, we believed that the everyday person CAN succeed. It turn out we were right... The regular person has tremendous determination, but not enough of the right skills to overcome all the barriers to building a high traffic site. It's tremendously rewarding watching people blossom as they realize the power of having thousands of visitors per day. THAT is when they really take off and discover all the other types of potential that they have. Read Steve's review again. You have no idea how much due diligence Steve does before he'll represent a product. We spent hours talking, he dug through the product, he asked about it his forums, he asked experts who he respects, he researched it on the Web, and he realized that there really is nothing that comes close to SBI!. It's amazing to me that it's even a debate. Folks end up wasting years of their lives and so much money on tools and scams before they finally try SBI!. And then they realize that they've found the place they were looking for. Doing this now for 14 years and SBI! for 10, I've realized that people are willing to work (putting aside those sad folks who fall for one GetRichQuick after another). It's all the barriers that stop them from succeeding... the firehouse of information (much of it bad), the infinite number of tools, widgets, plug-ins out there to choose from, the lack of one solid place you can trust for answers about any part of of your e-business. THAT is what we built. It's frustrating to even have to explain this because most people, once they get started with SBI!, just get going and growing. They don't outgrow it. Yes, 1 in a 100 do... Hey, I can't build SiteSell with SBI! -- it's a totally different model. And I understand that there will be folks with special needs who want some special scripting that we don't provide (and therefore, we won't have the security problems that regular webhosting, nor do we have the security holes of Wordpress -- there's no access to our servers). I understand that. And it thrills me to death to see them go. They're set for life with solid fundamentals. (By the way, there are some SBIers who later buy an account just for access to the constantly updated Action Guide, the HQs, Brainstorm It!, and my posts in the forums). James, you don't get it and you won't. I don't know why folks twist stuff that I (or others) then have to untwist. The fact that Steve and Rebecca support SBI! speaks volumes FOR SBI!, not against it. Rebecca has nothing to gain by her support, she simply loves it and realizes the part it played in her life. She's seen it for herself (after reading Steve's review, she started) and she's seen in the forums what it does for others. And the fact that most people stay with SBI!, even when they COULD leave to start other e-businesses, speaks LOUD volumes. They build 2nd and 3rd and more sites with SBI!, building successes one at a time. Over the past 9 years, I've worked with my daughter, watched her build anguilla-beaches.com into the top site about Anguilla in the world. She started at 14 years old. She now earns her more than her university professors. And she's averaged 2-3 hours per week on it. But here's the point... If Nori (or I, for that matter) ever wanted to start another, I'd be using SBI!. It's just too much work and money to figure it all up, stay up to date, find all the right tools. BUT... if Nori wanted to do some startup with special functions, that is NOT SBI!. That, of course, is not for most people. For $29.99 a month, even the most sophisticated, far from noobs, stay with SBI!. But, if you need more, it's easy to move your site and do whatever you need to do. But... Succeed first. :-) -- OK, I can't stay around and debate all day. It's so obvious, it's painful to even have to debate. Anyone can check out all the myths at The SBI! Urban Myths so that I don't have to "undo" those again. And the "boil-down" is simple... If you are already successful, stick with what you're doing. If you have yet to generate an e-business that reaches your life goals, whether you are just starting out (I never use that term "noob") or whether you've been doing this for 10 years... The 90-day Money-Back Guarantee makes this real simple. The worst that can happen is that you'll learn a lot and ask for your money back. But I suspect you'll be hanging around. :-) |
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08-18-2011, 04:30 PM
| #19 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Barleylands, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,257
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I've tried SBI! and now I have WP website. To be honest with you, the way you have to upload pages into SBI was very confusing to me and the template designs there horrible. That was few years ago, though, so maybe it's better now. Wordpress was MUCH easier for me to understand than SBI!, and it also looked very well. That's just my personal opinion, I do believe that SBI! is great for newbies, but when I remember that difficult site building and those "'It's 1995 again!" templates, well.. Seriously guys, I think that SBI! would be way more popular if it would have a lot of awesome looking templates like WP has  |
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08-18-2011, 04:32 PM
| #20 (permalink) |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,690
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Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you exhibit A as to why I left SBI in the first place. ^ To me, it's just easier to leave than to have the owner sit and try to convince me why my preferences just don't stack up against SBI. I gave you honest feedback (feedback that is common among the people who leave SBI). Do with it whatever you want, Mr. Envoy. |
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08-18-2011, 08:56 PM
| #21 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Anguilla
Posts: 10
| Pretty... or Successful? You Choose...
I'm not sure what's ugly about sites like these... Site Build It! - Real World Sample Sites (and this is a page that has not been updated for years) But their owners sure do like the traffic they generate and the income they earn. THAT is the bottom line. I keep hearing "clunky" from the detractors. I keep hearing "thanks for my business" from SBIers, like this post the other day from the forums... Paid Off My Mortgage 258 Months Early - Thanks SBI! And for those whom "slick-builder" is more important than success, I'll let you know when BlockBuilder 2 launches. Meanwhile, SBIers love their success and folks like James ignore my challenge to show me a system with more success than SBI! (won't even show me his own successful sites). Yes, James, I think we can indeed leave the exhibits as they lay. The careful reader will figure this out. All the best, Ken P.S. Agota, I have my doubts you ever used SBI!, not with questions like this one asked earlier this month... How do I see what people are looking for in google? This is material all SBIers master well before they EVER build a page with tools like Brainstorm It!, Site Info, Search It! and others, all part of an organized process. Last edited by KenEvoy; 08-18-2011 at 09:03 PM. |
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08-18-2011, 11:49 PM
| #22 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Whatever will be, already is
Posts: 1,466
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Wow, these WP vs. SBI threads really ease my confusion (sarcasm? nah) I've already got my domain name, so I am with WP, wish I could learn like a SBI sitebuilding noob though. Doesn't everyone have the right to an opinion, Mr. Evoy, I am an example of someone who could be swayed, but when I was doing my trial at SBI, I got little support on the forums, I was asking inexperienced questions. I guess that was it. I actually got more support here than I did there (on the support forums, which weren't that busy.) Last edited by Kaie; 08-19-2011 at 12:57 AM. |
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08-19-2011, 02:48 AM
| #23 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,690
| Quote:
In fact, aside from ONE aspect of SBI, I actually liked it (and I've recommended it even after I cancelled my own SBI site). But it's like you aren't even talking to me. It's like you hear "wordpress" and you go all wonky thinking people are attacking SBI. In fact, I used a lot of the stuff I learned on SBI with powerofhow, and when I first launched the site and was working on it, I was growing my traffic better than I had ever done before (and I was actually getting hits from google searches). I have SBI to THANK (in part) for that. I think you should hire a PR person or something, because, wow. LOL. | |
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08-19-2011, 08:05 PM
| #24 (permalink) |
| Family Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Whatever will be, already is
Posts: 1,466
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I will chime in to say that James did recommend that I give SBI a try. As a noob, there was a great deal of valuable information to learn (he told me, you can search old posts.) He *also* had good things to say about WP. I tried SBI, and who knows, I may try again, but I am not liking some of what I am hearing. Sounds a bit too drama for me. Plus, I already have my domain name that I want, and hosting. I am failing though, but I am having realizations as to why, that are beyong the scope of this forum, perhaps in the Personal Effectiveness area, but for all intensive purposes, James did suggest I try SBI, so it is not all one sided.
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08-21-2011, 01:13 AM
| #25 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Anguilla
Posts: 10
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James, Yes, I am talking to you AND hearing you. If you read my posts, you'll see every point that you raise is answered. You do not reciprocate, however. I hear you well, James. But I don't "LMAO," it's too insulting to the person I'm talking to. I hear you turn my posts, with many rebuttals to myths about SBI! or other inaccuracies, into insults like "wonky." Could you point out what's "wonky," exactly? Meanwhile, I don't hear the same solid, respectful answers back. I also hear you ignore the success challenge because, in your words, "I wasn't challenging you to begin with. LMAO!" I don't really see why you laugh your ass off over that, but I do see avoidance. I have no trouble conceding that WP has a slicker sitebuilder. I've written many times that there are at least 1000 easier ways to build a SITE. I don't avoid that point. It's true (unless you upload your own HTML, in which case it's irrelevant). James, SBI! delivers successful BUSINESSES. Folks are more delighted with that than getting a site up a bit faster. No one has ever shown me a program with better business results. And, either way, we spend an insignificant percentage of our time on the actual building of a page... Content should be written, photos laid out conceptually, before you even open your sitebuilder. It all goes more smoothly, no matter which builder you're using, IF you've prepared your top-notch content before opening your builder. -- Since you want to avoid the challenge, I'll check the traffic metric sites to see how you and Kaie are doing in 6 months. I sincerely hope that Kaie does well with your "recommendation" (which was to use SBI! for a few months, glean all that that she can from it, and then a strong hint to leave for WP because it's a better builder). With a recommendation like that, it's clear that you don't understand the depth of SBI!, all that it does, and that it constantly updates and evolves. But let's focus on results from here on in. -- I'm not pretending that SBI! is the ONLY way to succeed online. It's merely the best chance to succeed. If folks succeed without SBI!, I would NEVER suggest they switch. If they struggle, whether beginner or "trying for 10 years," give it a REAL try... not a try where you plan on leaving shortly. If you don't commit to a process from start to finish, you'll never succeed at any business. James, there's a reason why most folks don't move their sites before or after they are successful. It's the same reason why SBIers purchase a 2nd, 3rd and more sites that become businesses... Because it works better than anything else. I'm glad you learned a lot about SBI! while you tried it, James. And I do hope that your sites start to get some traffic. If not, do come back and try SBI! when we launch BlockBuilder 2. Without the distraction of "clunkiness," you may see a whole lot more that SBI! really delivers. :-) All the best, Ken P.S. Kaie, I see you were only with us for 22 days in April. I'm sorry the forums didn't live up to your expectations. They're usually superb with everything, from "inexperienced questions" to advanced javascript problems not that many folks do complicated js ;-) ). You say you're failing with Wordpress. It's too early to make that conclusion. Keep at it, keep learning and asking. You sound like someone determined to make it. Best of luck. If you ever decide that WP is not working, come back and give SBI! another try, this time with a solid commitment. It's hard to commit when you know you'll be leaving shortly. |
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08-21-2011, 02:04 AM
| #26 (permalink) | |
| Family Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Whatever will be, already is
Posts: 1,466
| Quote:
I was concerned with the look of the SBI sites vs. the sleek themes of WP, and plug ins are fun. Fact is that the reason I changed on top of my overwhelm, was that my friend was offering to help me set up WP for a barter, and he is hosting me too. He also has answered any questions and technically, I have been able to figure out just enough. I am quite certain I am not utilizing WP in the way I could be. I like the organizational system and logical approach of SBI, and I think it would've been perfect for me with a bit more support. I think I would have done well if I had given it more time, but then again... In steps my friend... I would seriously consider coming back, but like I said, I have my domain name, and I need it because I am using my name as my brand. I have had kellystclaire.com for a while (years) I don't know, perhaps I would be better off with a catchy name, but I did put a lot of thought into it. I apologize to the OP for my part in going OT. | |
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08-21-2011, 03:29 AM
| #27 (permalink) | |
| Banned Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,690
| Quote:
My intention was to give YOU (and others in this thread) feedback about SBI based on my experience. And, as much as you try to avoid that feedback, it doesn't change the fact that, for me, the parts I DIDN'T like about SBI were "dealbreakers" for me. And, while you saw that as a challenge on SBI, and felt the need to bang out several lengthy replies on the subject, I keep telling you that AS GOOD AS THE OTHER STUFF IS ABOUT SBI, YOU'VE LOST ME (AND SEVERAL OTHERS) BECAUSE OF THE THINGS I HAVE MENTIONED. To make that more clear, I'll offer you an example of what I mean: You go to a restaurant (one of the finest restaurants in town), and you order your meal. The chef brings your meal to the table on on your plate are the following things: The best, most juicy steak cut from the finest quality meat A side of the juiciest, most succulent sauteed vegetables there is A glass of the finest wine A giant dog turd Now, it doesn't matter how great that meal looks, how well it was cooked, or how clean the restaurant was. It doesn't matter just how many people have raved about that restaurant. *I'm* not eating the meal because there is a damn dog turd on the plate. And that's exactly what I'm saying. I keep telling you about the "dog turd" (i.e. the clunky block builder and the 1997 templates or all the extra work involved in making your own HTML OR the extra money you'd have to spend to hire someone to make the HTML for you), and you keep talking about how great the steak and the vegetables are, and that countless people have been in the restaurant and talked about how great the food was. Does that make more sense? I'm not asking you to convince me how great SBI is, nor am I asking you to defend SBI to me. I'm giving you a particular piece of feedback about SBI and telling you why I left. THAT is why I'm not taking your challenge, because there's no challenge given. There's feedback and what you do with it. | |
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08-21-2011, 10:17 AM
| #29 (permalink) |
| Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 14
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This thread has been enlightening. Thanks for it. Blackwater and I maintain a site (see my signature) that is generating visits but as yet little income (apart from some pocket money from AdSense). I'm wondering whether SBI might help us monetize the site. I understand that the SBI process starts way before a site is up and running, as ours is. Would we have to redesign it using SBI design tools in order to apply the rest of the SBI program, or would we be able to keep working on the site in Dreamweaver while applying the rest of the SBI tools? (Edit: To be clear, I'm happy to implement principles learned from SBI in our site design - I'd just like to keep working in Dreamweaver.) Also, will someone (ideally also someone other than Ken Evoy ) confirm that one can truly get one's money back if not satisfied? Rationally I am almost convinced I should try SBI but I can't shake a fear that I will end up kicking myself for spending this money...
Last edited by Economica; 08-21-2011 at 10:20 AM. |
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