Is Ethics a Part of Business??

[SquarePeg]

Every recruit in the United States armed forces is taught the laws governing warfare.

But my thread on business ethics (Free Lunch: Make $10 Billion, and Get a $4 Billion Tax Refund) just got moved since it's not narrowly focused on "growing your business."

So do you folks, actual employers and aspirants, think about ethics at all?

Just curious.

Is there something legal you wouldn't do, even in the name of profit??

[SquarePeg]

I ask not to start a "political debate" but because it's really struck me that maybe there are all these corporate scandals in the world because no one really believes in such a thing as "corporate ethics"...so, I'm not going to argue with anyone -- I won't even make a response -- just want to know if there are perfectly legal things which would be profitable and yet which would violate your own sense of professional ethics or personal morality.

Thank you.

[VinceG]

Ethics can be an important part of marketing your business, a way you can set yourself apart from others. There's a difference, however between making marketing your business through ethics, and making ethics a part of your marketing. The first insists that everything a business does is carefully organized around doing things ethically. I'd say Google is an example of this.

The second hires a marketing department to slap a thin coat of ethics paint onto the company website/commercials.

It's all signaling. People really interested in doing things ethically will take special care to find and do business with the former, people solely interested in profits will gravitate towards the second. More money in the second, more sanity in the first.

[falcan]

Interesting...I would add maybe, "more short term money" for the second. I believe long term it simply will bite you back to cheat. And the question is about business, but it really boils down to people - business is made of people. I think the same rules and what you can expect on personal level apply pretty much on the business level.

[Margarita888]

The "ethical entrepreneur" is a rapidly growing breed of business owners. Lots of businesses are prioritizing principles over profits. Of course you can't completely ignore profits as that's the only way for the business to sustain itself.

In my business, we could have our products made in the U.S. for $10, or in China for $3 (after all shipping, customs, duties, etc are in). We could easily more than double our profits but we choose to keep production in the U.S. for a ton of reasons. Alternatively, we could also use cheaper materials and put more money in our pockets, but we don't. I feel a personal responsibility to the end users of our products, which are babies, so I only use materials that I would personally use on my own children.

We have over 200 retailers & distributors of our products around the world. But we could easily have over 500 if our wholesale policies were looser. We have a very thorough screening process and specifically choose to only work with businesses that are serious. Having 500 retailers would certainly probably increase our sales a lot, but that could also mean potentially bigger headaches. We end up being more productive with the way we're doing things now than when we used to accept any tom, dick & harry applying for an account.

Ultimately it all boils down to how you want your business to run. There is a price to be paid for however way you choose to operate. But there are also tons of benefits. Maybe choosing profits over ethics can earn you more money, but is it going to be worth the stress and mental anguish from having to deal with the type of customers that choose to do business with you? Keep in mind that the law of attraction works in glorious ways. Whatever you put out comes back to you.

[Brutha]

But my thread on business ethics (Free Lunch: Make $10 Billion, and Get a $4 Billion Tax Refund) just got moved since it's not narrowly focused on "growing your business."

No, that's a strawman.

The thread was about a victim mentality instead of taking personal responsibility for a problem.

Complaining about tax refunds in an individual case without examining the laws that lead to those refunds in detail is lazy.
As far as ethics go I find cheap populism that doesn't try to understand the problem but instead focuses on being outraged unethical.

[Clint Cora]

There usually are ethics involved in business but this may vary quite widely between business practices around the world. For example, the practice of bribing for business is hotly debated where in North America, it's often frowned upon but this is actually commonplace in other parts of the world and is considered a cost of doing business.

[Acting Like Godot]

Most very large companies have official policies dealing with these sorts of matters.

Mine does. The policies address topics such as giving and accepting gifts from customers, what's permissible and what's not.

We also have what are known as KYC procedures ("Know Your Customer") whereby we check out the background of our prospective new customers to ensure that there's nothing dubious or questionable about them (eg links to terrorism or other crime).

There are also certain types of clients whom we tend to avoid, eg clients in certain non-environmental friendly industries such as coal mining.

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by Brutha

No, that's a strawman.

The thread was about a victim mentality instead of taking personal responsibility for a problem.

Complaining about tax refunds in an individual case without examining the laws that lead to those refunds in detail is lazy.
As far as ethics go I find cheap populism that doesn't try to understand the problem but instead focuses on being outraged unethical.

I said I wouldn't make a response in the interests of listening, but since you're not dealing with the question and attacking the motivation behind the question instead in a personal manner, "all bets are off."

Claiming that the system governing a free market is in fact not "free" is not having a so-called "victim mentality."

If I have a victim's mentality, does that mean you should consider yours that of a thief? Funny how in trying to put down an idea, you unwittingly make yourself suspect!

Moreover, since you moderate this forum, you should know that my concluding remarks in the original post were aimed at the sentiment so apparently prevalent among the business class, that somehow it's other classes of people who are freeloading off their hard work when in fact it's the predatory business practices of their own, taken to their logical extremes, that's been responsible!

Like I said, even recruits in the armed forces are taught the wider social/human implications of warfare...why are ethical considerations -- which are necessarily social, political -- be out of bounds for discussion in a business forum?

Let's cut the bull-Sugar-Honey-Ice-Tea, Mr. Moderator. It's not cheap populism. (Re-read the emboldened text in case you still don't get it.) Cheap populism is that billionaire-funded Tea Party Kool Aid many a Samuel "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher type loves to drink.

Social considerations are a part of business...however reluctantly so.

Just ask Mr. Murdoch!

Or, maybe, ask Steve....

[mainstreetcm]

I'm a marketer. I market a range of products that I don't ever really have an interest in. Here is my philosophy regarding ethics in my own affiliate marketing business.

Is it legal? Is it profitable? Then promote it.

I could really care less what it is. As long as those two factors are met, then I will make an attempt to promote it. And yes, I do have a lawyer that I can consult when I am confused about something, most recently about promoting adult content.

It's legal and its very profitable. So I am starting to promote it. I have no reservations about anything that is legal and profitable. I'm in business to make money and help people grow their own businesses.

As for your original thread about GE? That falls directly on the government. If I had the capabilities to invoice through other countries to avoid paying taxes you can bet your ass I would. Is it legal? According to the tax laws, yes. Is it profitable? Yes. Both things have been met, which means I'd do it.

Whatever happened to the phrase, "for profit business?" Since when is it a sin to make a lot of money and then find a way (that is perfectly legal according to US Tax Laws) to get out of paying taxes. Hmm... that would equal more money in my pocket and my employee's pockets.

Obviously I have no idea if GE shared those profits with the employee's, but I personally would.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by SquarePeg

I said I wouldn't make a response in the interests of listening, but since you're not dealing with the question and attacking the motivation behind the question instead in a personal manner, "all bets are off."

Uhh. Did you mean "all gloves are off"?

[Brutha]

Claiming that the system governing a free market is in fact not "free" is not having a so-called "victim mentality."

There are productive way to address the concern that the world isn't fair and there are ways which constitute whining.

This is a personal development forum which is partly about taking responsibility.
We have a forum rule against that says: "Do not whine [...] These forums are for people who assume full responsibility for their lives, not for those who are looking to be objects of pity or to assign blame."

In the spirit of free expression our standards of "Do not whine" are a bit more lax in the World Affairs forum.

If you do start a whining thread in any other part of this forum you should be expect to be called on it.
The world isn't fair. The easter bunny doesn't exist.

Part of the reason that those businesses can do the things they do is that people like you are to lazy to understand the system deep to criticize it in a meaningful way.
Professional lobbyists invest the necessary time into understanding the system and are therefore able to bent it.

Just to be clear, nothing that I said in this thread indicates that I like the current US American system.

[Orionjoel]

For me it comes down to one thing, Respect. If I do not have the respect of the people that are important in my life, then I wont do it. If you do not have respect of those who matter to you, then what do you have.