My thoughts on employees....

[Margarita888]

Before I begin, I would just like to make it clear that this thread isn't meant to bash anyone, but hopefully shed some light onto what goes on the other side of the employment scene.

I see so many threads here and hear of so many people that say they hate their jobs, their jobs suck, their bosses suck, their job sucks the life out of them...etc. etc. As an employer, this is very infuriating to me because I do try to give our employees the best working conditions possible. I try to provide a very fair compensation and provide as much flexibility for 'life' in the workplace (sickness, children's' sicknesses, car issues, etc.). We try to choose employees that will have the best fit for our type of company and the job that they will be doing. And payroll is always a priority for us. There have been lots and lots of times when the only money we had was enough to pay either employees or bills. Employees obviously got paid first. Paying ourselves had to be the last priority.

So when I hear people complain, the only thing I can think of is this: unless somebody's holding a gun to your head, nobody's forcing you to stay at your job. Do yourself and your bosses a favor and just quit. By staying and agonizing over your situation, you are doing both yourself and the company a disservice. If you really need the money and have no other options, then at least be grateful for the opportunity to be able to pay your bills with the danged job you have to do that you so don't enjoy.

Employment is a 2-way street. As much as people would love to work at a job that they like or be their own boss, employers would also prefer to have employees that love their work. Most employers do not relish the fact that they can crack the whip on you or make you do menial jobs. I view employees as extra sets of hands, not minions. I give a lot for our employees and, granted, not all companies/bosses are like me, they all still pay their fair share to provide you with the means to stay employed. If you don't like your job, just leave. Otherwise, be grateful. Because the money you get from your paycheck had to come from somewhere. Somebody had to create the systems or products that allowed the creation of your job. Somebody had to risk something for it to exist. It doesn't matter if you're working for a multi-million-dollar firm or a small mom & pop business, you're an important part of the business. For your job to exist, there obviously was a need for it. You are free to choose whether to fill that need or not. So don't ever feel like you are forced to stay and slug away at your job. You're not a prisoner.

Much love to you all!

[Peterw]

Excellent post - 10/10!

Particularly like these points:

unless somebody's holding a gun to your head, nobody's forcing you to stay at your job. Do yourself and your bosses a favor and just quit. By staying and agonizing over your situation, you are doing both yourself and the company a disservice.

It amazes me how many people choose to stay in unhappy sitautions and complain and do nothing about it. They are so good at coming up with excuses and reasons not to move out of their comfort zone so blame it on everyone else thay they're unfulfilled, overworked/underpaid blah blah.

You get out of life what you put in - if you want low risk you can expect low reward. If you think you're better - be better, don't talk about it do it.

Somebody had to create the systems or products that allowed the creation of your job. Somebody had to risk something for it to exist.

I wish more people would get this aspect of business entrepreneurialism and creativity. It takes a lot of investment, risk and effort to get a successful business off the ground so that one day you can have a job that is safe secure and offers some career advancement.

I'm designing this part of my business now and it's taking a lot of thought and effort to create systems that work and can be followed by other people.

If you don't like your job, just leave. Otherwise, be grateful. Because the money you get from your paycheck had to come from somewhere.

After the recession we just had (and aren't quite out of yet) I will never ever be unappreciative of any source of income that helps keep me afloat and reach my goals.

I will say however that from what I see a lot of unhappiness at work stems from people not liking their management who in larger companies aren't really that entrepreneurial themselves and are just concerned with keeping their figures in check and moving up. But still - that's not a reason to stay still and blame someone else for your life situation.

There's too much available information and opportunity out there to blame any one else for your being in a situation you're not happy with.

[brendannz]

Excellent post!

I use part time employment as a way of supporting my entrapreneurship & self employment,

My boss is cool and takes an interest in what I'm doing as well, so it works well.

It's all about gratitude I find. Once we can accept and appreciate everything that's awesome right now, then it becomes the gateway to the infinite possibilities tomorrow..

[nzmegs]

I have to admit that i am an advocate of self employment and purely because of my personal experiences in the workplace.

While i agree that you are a good employer, there are too many out there who simply take advantage of their staff. Being employed takes up so much time, that people are often left feeling like they are stuck and cannot see a time when they will be able to do anything else. If you work all day, you are left tired and you are not ready to focus on finding somehting else or thinking about self employment.

Even people who are in jobs they hate find it hard to get the motivation to leave. it wouold be nice for everyine to be paid fairly, receive clear instructions and possibilities of moving up the ladder. But most people don't get that and they feel undervalued and angry.

if only all employers could be like you. I hope you really appreciate your employees becuase they have allowed you to do be in the position you are - the boss

[Clint Cora]

Well said! It's also more of an issue these days because unlike my generation, most younger employees are more likely to jump companies much quicker than ever before.

[Agota]

I think the problem is that many people who are not suited for employment and hate it stay employed anyway because of the lack of courage and then whine about everything. I used to be one of those people. I think my life changed once I decided to accept the fact that I see things differently and I'll never be happy having a job, therefore I should stop whining and start building my own business. There are a lot of people like me who are very very unhappy in their jobs and in any form of employment, yet very few of them ever take the responsibility to change that situation..

[Margarita888]

Originally Posted by nzmegs

I hope you really appreciate your employees becuase they have allowed you to do be in the position you are - the boss

I do sincerely appreciate our employees and know that at any given point in time, they can choose to leave. I don't really consider myself a boss as I consider everyone at our company as equals. I have my own job to do just as everybody else does.

I think people get stuck in the mentality that they have no choice. The world is full of choices. The consequences may not be always what you want, easy or convenient, but you are ALWAYS the captain of your ship. People don't have to tolerate their jobs, bosses, managers, etc. just as you probably wouldn't tolerate an abusive boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse. At least I sure hope not.

[Agota]

Originally Posted by Margarita888

I think people get stuck in the mentality that they have no choice. The world is full of choices. The consequences may not be always what you want, easy or convenient, but you are ALWAYS the captain of your ship. People don't have to tolerate their jobs, bosses, managers, etc. just as you probably wouldn't tolerate an abusive boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse. At least I sure hope not.

Most people do tolerate it. This victim mentality is like a mass psychosis

[TheOrange]

Originally Posted by Margarita888

So when I hear people complain, the only thing I can think of is this: unless somebody's holding a gun to your head, nobody's forcing you to stay at your job. Do yourself and your bosses a favor and just quit.

Because most people just don't know what else to do. Their only concept of making money is to go to a job advertising site and buy into a job. They have no idea of any other ways to make money. They agonize about not getting a raise, about not being able to pay their bills, about not getting enough hours to work - but it's all because they simply can not see a different way of doing things.

(And then they complain about businesses being too "greedy" for making profits that actually pay their own salaries.. lol.. )

[SquarePeg]

Nice post. It resonated with me as I had to get a few kids fired at my job who were not just goofing off, but reacted as if I was screwin' them over by gently prodding them to get back to work!

I think the problem is that when someone's young or just plain ignorant, he or she really can't see the big picture -- or even know that there is one. They have tunnel vision, and can only process goings-on from their own POV.

I'm afraid employers will have to deal with this as just another fact of life, however: after all, a big part of the reason someone has to be paid to do something in the first place often boils down to nothing more than the task being boring or otherwise unpleasant!

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by Agota

Most people do tolerate it. This victim mentality is like a mass psychosis

I blame our education system. Don't forget that public education was first set up like a hundred years ago to train young people for employment.

So from youth you're trained to be someone's monkey, so to speak! Unfortunately, civilization hasn't developed the forms by which we can all just do our own thing -- someone's got to take out the garbage....

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by nzmegs

I have to admit that i am an advocate of self employment and purely because of my personal experiences in the workplace.

Yes, that's my story, too! It was three years ago when I first found out about these forums, and that got me to actually quit my job then! A lot of "adventures" since then, and now after all this time I'm finally determined to be an entrepreneur of some kind...can't work for folks who don't appreciate it.

Interestingly, I've been employed by a small businessman for the past two years who despite just paying me an hourly wage is the most understanding boss I've ever had! It sounds crazy but somehow paid sick leave, personal days, vacation time, health benefits, and a pension doesn't seem to come to the simple humanity I now have in a boss...he ain't no Karl Marx, if you know what I mean, but he's a lot more decent than any other boss I've ever had -- probably 'cause the business is his and he has an actual stake in things!

Yes, now I wonder whether small businesspeople can be more "humane" than managers at big organizations who are just employees themselves....

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by TheOrange

(And then they complain about businesses being too "greedy" for making profits that actually pay their own salaries.. lol.. )

Businesses *are* greedy. It's the nature of a business to keep growing: there's no such thing as "enough" when it comes to a business...except maybe "our" Steve!

And did you know that this year General Electric paid no income taxes whatsoever?? The news was widely reported -- except by NBC, owned by GE!

[TheOrange]

Originally Posted by SquarePeg

Businesses *are* greedy. It's the nature of a business to keep growing: there's no such thing as "enough" when it comes to a business...except maybe "our" Steve!

And did you know that this year General Electric paid no income taxes whatsoever?? The news was widely reported -- except by NBC, owned by GE!

Yeah.. that's why one should be in business and not an employee..

"Imagination At Work" ~ G.E

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Agota

Most people do tolerate it. This victim mentality is like a mass psychosis

Noting that the victim mentality is alive and well in this thread. It's the education system's fault. It's those greedy corporation's fault. And somehow GE's fault.

Great post Margarita! I have been very fortunate that the people I've hired so far have worked out well. Let's hope it continues.

[mindset]

Great discussion going on here. It's really not surprising to hear that there are indeed SOME employees who complain quite often or even abuse their privilege with company assets like slacking off during most of their working hours doing personal stuff using the company internet.

I know that some of you here might be aware on the discussion on employee internet monitoring that most employers are doing right now. We can't really blame them if they wanted to protect their assets and wants to make sure their employees are indeed productive when it comes to their everyday tasks. I'm sure when there's an effective system that can benefit both parties, then I guess the situation will become less complicated.

[Peterw]

There's a situation in the UK at the moment that illustrates this issue perfectly.

When we got our new coalition government they made some very unpopular decisions about reducing our budget deficit by making spending cuts to public service employees, benefits and services in general. Now they are up in arms and marching through the streets in protest because what they were promised (cushy job for life and big pensions paid for by the tax payer) has been taken away or reduced. Basically their working conditions have been brought a bit more in line with private sector workers and they're screaming blue murder because they're losing what they think they're entitled to.

At the same time another headline came out this morning saying that UK businesses should stop hiring so many immigrant workers and start taking on more British unemployed.. The problem is that the UK workers just don't have the work ethic that that the immigrants do so of course businesses are going to go with value for money... In fact until recently it actually paid more to be unemployed and live on welfare than it did to work for some people.

Everyone wants to get paid a lot for doing a little or nothing at all - but no one is entitled to it. It's there for anyone who wants to educate themselves and motivate themselves to achieve it though.

I'm entitling myself to a very cushy number, it's hard work though.. for now..

[LostMyMap]

Peterw, in a completely off-topic remark, I like your avatar pic. It looks a lot like my '76 Les Paul custom. (Not for sale...)

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by TheOrange

Yeah.. that's why one should be in business and not an employee..

"Imagination At Work" ~ G.E

Yes -- now they tell me!

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Noting that the victim mentality is alive and well in this thread. It's the education system's fault. It's those greedy corporation's fault. And somehow GE's fault.

Great post Margarita! I have been very fortunate that the people I've hired so far have worked out well. Let's hope it continues.

Call it whatever you want: it is what it is.

Good luck to everyone navigating it!

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by mindset

Great discussion going on here. It's really not surprising to hear that there are indeed SOME employees who complain quite often or even abuse their privilege with company assets like slacking off during most of their working hours doing personal stuff using the company internet.

I know that some of you here might be aware on the discussion on employee internet monitoring that most employers are doing right now. We can't really blame them if they wanted to protect their assets and wants to make sure their employees are indeed productive when it comes to their everyday tasks. I'm sure when there's an effective system that can benefit both parties, then I guess the situation will become less complicated.

Are people robots?

I love to work out at the gym, and I work out so hard folks think I'm on steroids (no, really, I get asked that all the time) -- BUT I will still need to rest in-between sets and exercises!

Just 'cause I'm at the gym for an hour to two hours half if not most days of the week practically every week doesn't mean I spend every single second actually handling weight, running, jumping, et cetera.

People are not robots.

The fact that many businesses don't understand this is actually what's made me explore my own entrepreneurial options!

Making for more competition!

So treat your employees right (those of you who don't) or you're gonna get:

a) an unproductive employee
b) an-unproductive-employee-turned-new-competition


Good luck!

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by Peterw

There's a situation in the UK at the moment that illustrates this issue perfectly.

When we got our new coalition government they made some very unpopular decisions about reducing our budget deficit by making spending cuts to public service employees, benefits and services in general. Now they are up in arms and marching through the streets in protest because what they were promised (cushy job for life and big pensions paid for by the tax payer) has been taken away or reduced. Basically their working conditions have been brought a bit more in line with private sector workers and they're screaming blue murder because they're losing what they think they're entitled to.

At the same time another headline came out this morning saying that UK businesses should stop hiring so many immigrant workers and start taking on more British unemployed.. The problem is that the UK workers just don't have the work ethic that that the immigrants do so of course businesses are going to go with value for money... In fact until recently it actually paid more to be unemployed and live on welfare than it did to work for some people.

Everyone wants to get paid a lot for doing a little or nothing at all - but no one is entitled to it. It's there for anyone who wants to educate themselves and motivate themselves to achieve it though.

I'm entitling myself to a very cushy number, it's hard work though.. for now..

Mate,

These people are upset that their pensions have been underfunded and raided by the government.

If I hire you to sign up with my record label and promise you in a contract something, then I misuse the proceeds from sales and then say I can't pay you in full, now or ever, wouldn't you be mad, too??

I can't believe smart people think the crooks in government are really out of money!

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Peterw, in a completely off-topic remark, I like your avatar pic. It looks a lot like my '76 Les Paul custom. (Not for sale...)

Mindset's avatar pic is much better...also not for sale, I suspect!

[Bradman]

Margarita, you sound like the type of person I wouldn't mind working for. That said, there are a lot of situations that make the work environment unacceptable. I've had bosses that took credit for every good idea that I had. I've had co-workers take extreme advantage of sick pay to the point where everyone was penalized as to reduce the benefit for people that were really sick. I've had situations where I had noticed engineering flaws that saved the company huge liabilities, but yet been fired by the same company for making one error. I had a situation where outdated equipment was costing the company money, but after making repeated suggestions to my supervisor with no results, I was berated for going over his head – even though that's what it took to make the necessary changes. I could go on, but what would be the point......basically, I've helped make a few of companies successful, and not much to show for it.

[Peterw]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Peterw, in a completely off-topic remark, I like your avatar pic. It looks a lot like my '76 Les Paul custom. (Not for sale...)

Thanks - I'm actually a strat person but I intend to have a room full of guitars one day. Les Paul is next on the list

Originally Posted by SquarePeg

Mate,

These people are upset that their pensions have been underfunded and raided by the government.

If I hire you to sign up with my record label and promise you in a contract something, then I misuse the proceeds from sales and then say I can't pay you in full, now or ever, wouldn't you be mad, too??

I can't believe smart people think the crooks in government are really out of money!

They're not - they're squeezing from the people they know won't pose many problems to them, like me (LTD company IT contractor/small business) while the Tesco/barclays/Philip Green's and other untouchables get away with paying peanuts on billions of profit.

I fully understand the contract thing but the civil service culture does need a kick up the behind and reality check. I was one of them for about a year and a half and I'm amazed anything gets done. We'd spend all afternoon in the pub until someone would get a call on a mobile saying the email server had crashed - "Alright lads look after my pint, just gonna go and reboot the exchange server, back in a minute. Oh and same again if you're getting them in"...

I'd also be livid if I'd invested the best part of my working life in a civil service career/pension but the reality check had to come along some time...

[Margarita888]

Originally Posted by Bradman

Margarita, you sound like the type of person I wouldn't mind working for. That said, there are a lot of situations that make the work environment unacceptable. I've had bosses that took credit for every good idea that I had. I've had co-workers take extreme advantage of sick pay to the point where everyone was penalized as to reduce the benefit for people that were really sick. I've had situations where I had noticed engineering flaws that saved the company huge liabilities, but yet been fired by the same company for making one error. I had a situation where outdated equipment was costing the company money, but after making repeated suggestions to my supervisor with no results, I was berated for going over his head – even though that's what it took to make the necessary changes. I could go on, but what would be the point......basically, I've helped make a few of companies successful, and not much to show for it.

So what did you do? Did you hang around or leave? I have worked for companies before whose operations did not exactly resonate with me. I either just left or took it for what it was and stayed until I found another alternative.

[Margarita888]

Originally Posted by Peterw

There's a situation in the UK at the moment that illustrates this issue perfectly.

When we got our new coalition government they made some very unpopular decisions about reducing our budget deficit by making spending cuts to public service employees, benefits and services in general. Now they are up in arms and marching through the streets in protest because what they were promised (cushy job for life and big pensions paid for by the tax payer) has been taken away or reduced. Basically their working conditions have been brought a bit more in line with private sector workers and they're screaming blue murder because they're losing what they think they're entitled to.

At the same time another headline came out this morning saying that UK businesses should stop hiring so many immigrant workers and start taking on more British unemployed.. The problem is that the UK workers just don't have the work ethic that that the immigrants do so of course businesses are going to go with value for money... In fact until recently it actually paid more to be unemployed and live on welfare than it did to work for some people.

Everyone wants to get paid a lot for doing a little or nothing at all - but no one is entitled to it. It's there for anyone who wants to educate themselves and motivate themselves to achieve it though.

I'm entitling myself to a very cushy number, it's hard work though.. for now..

Oh don't even get me started on government employees. I believe the situation in the UK is exactly the same as the U.S. People are up in arms over hiring immigrants (illegal or not) instead of unemployed Americans, yet most people are too proud and refuse to take jobs that the immigrants take. Most people have gotten used to getting certain employment benefits that they believe they are entitled to them all the time and that it should be standard. They have absolutely no clue what it takes to be able to offer all these extra luxuries to employees.

[Bradman]

Originally Posted by Margarita888

So what did you do? Did you hang around or leave? I have worked for companies before whose operations did not exactly resonate with me. I either just left or took it for what it was and stayed until I found another alternative.

I hear you. I stayed too long in a couple of jobs, but after earning 6 weeks vacation it's hard to give that up, but it seems lame hindsight and should have quit - easier to find a job while still employed it seems.

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by Margarita888

Oh don't even get me started on government employees. I believe the situation in the UK is exactly the same as the U.S. People are up in arms over hiring immigrants (illegal or not) instead of unemployed Americans, yet most people are too proud and refuse to take jobs that the immigrants take. Most people have gotten used to getting certain employment benefits that they believe they are entitled to them all the time and that it should be standard. They have absolutely no clue what it takes to be able to offer all these extra luxuries to employees.

I don't think folks are too proud, generally. Have you seen the mile-long lines for jobs??

It's that they want decent wages and working conditions, which the flood of illegals and Third World outsourcing make impossible to achieve.

[SquarePeg]

Originally Posted by Peterw

They're not - they're squeezing from the people they know won't pose many problems to them, like me (LTD company IT contractor/small business) while the Tesco/barclays/Philip Green's and other untouchables get away with paying peanuts on billions of profit.

I fully understand the contract thing but the civil service culture does need a kick up the behind and reality check. I was one of them for about a year and a half and I'm amazed anything gets done. We'd spend all afternoon in the pub until someone would get a call on a mobile saying the email server had crashed - "Alright lads look after my pint, just gonna go and reboot the exchange server, back in a minute. Oh and same again if you're getting them in"...

I'd also be livid if I'd invested the best part of my working life in a civil service career/pension but the reality check had to come along some time...

I too have worked both public and private sector jobs and have my fair share of "war stories" from both -- neither has a monopoly on waste and inefficiency! Though in the private sector companies tend to view things like lunch breaks, sick leave, paid vacations, and pensions as "inefficient" and a complete "waste"....

Look, unless you're one of these tax-break-fixin' multi-million corporate "untouchables" yourself, your long-term interests, even as an entrepreneur or freelancer, lies with the protesting pensioners: a Dickensian culture of untouchables and everyone-else will only benefit the untouchables.

Don't fight over bread crumbs. Go after the pie!