money money money

[Cochonette]

Uh... so... I make $9/hr at my current job. It is kind of my first real job (my previous job was just as a student worker in the library). $9 is the most I've ever made. I've been thinking that once I learn sautee at current job, I'll ask for a raise to $11, which is what the chef above me makes (he is trying to get a raise, but it hasn't been forthcoming). Why $11? Well, I'm the least experienced in the kitchen, I am always self-aware about my weaknesses and feel I could do better before asking more... like I'm slow, not very organized, not assertive... these are things I'm working on, but I always think, "Well, I could understand why he wouldn't want to give me a raise yet, considering..."

But when I think about it... the top chef makes $34k, the other I think makes about the same. That's... almost four times what I make. And they're good, but uh... if they can be making that much, I should think I can be making more indeed! But yet, the guy above me can't seem to get a raise. It's a pretty huge disparity I see, and the main three factors I see playing into that difference in pay are speed, being organized, and being assertive.

I also noticed that most people I meet make a lot more money than I do. People in this city seem to make LOTS of money. Granted, it's an expensive city. But they make so much in my eyes! If I made $20/hr, I'd be totally thrilled! My roommate is making $25/hr (she's 26) and complains. Seriously, I seem to hear people complain they're not making enough, pretty much no matter how much they're making. Yet I get by on $9/hr not even working 40 hours every week (some weeks, yes). If I kept up this job at this pace and pay I'd make about $12k in a year. Now, granted if I were paying $600-700 for rent like the average in this city, I'd be like I need at least $10-11/hr to get by.

You see how I think about things? I guess, I just dwell on how can I make just a little bit more... I think that $15/hr would be fantastic right now. $11 would be cool. $9 I don't like. Even though I want to make more money, I am still gonna be grateful for my standard of living, ability to actually eat well and have a nice apartment... many don't even have that. My mom makes do on $8000 a year, somehow, and still has money for luxuries and sending me support money.

I am looking at info about how much people in my city make. The president of my university makes nearly $1 million per year (over twice as much as Obama), and the university men's basketball coach makes $1.8 million.

I am not sure if I actually have a question, other than, what are your thoughts? I go for LoA, just don't throw myself 100% into the concept like a lot of people here.

I guess, coming from a fairly poor background (for an American), I feel semi-ok with not making so much? It would be nice to make more, but I wanna make sure I earned it, too, and know that I know how to get things done and help make the world go 'round... I don't wanna feel entitled about what I'm making, 'cause I know I have had a lot of sense of entitlement in the past, thinking I was above work like I'm doing now... but yet not being able to get things done.

[LostMyMap]

Random thoughts

--$9 in DC isn't very much. Good for you for making it work, but I hope you can get more soon!

--Sometimes the way to get a raise is with a new job. I'm not saying it has to be that way, but if the guy above you is stuck....

--Even if you really like you job, always have your eyes open for the next opportunity. You never know where it will come from.

--People do tend to complain that it's not enough no matter how much they have. Human nature I guess. Coming from a poor background is actually an advantage for you. You will always appreciate what you have more. I came from a pretty low income family too. i.e. mobile home, food stamps, etc.

--On the other hand, a little dis-satisfaction is a really good motivator. You're more likely to get that raise, or a new job with better pay, or whatever, if you really are motivated to get it. If we didn't want to always have a little bit better, we'd still be living in caves and getting stomped on by wooly mammoths.

--You deserve the best. Always remember that.

[gingerbaker]

It seems to me like you are in the process of examining your beliefs about money, and starting to feel out what beliefs may be limiting rather than helpful. I've been through - and continue to go through - a similar process.

Perspective is very interesting. I can remember a time when making $15/hr seemed a tremendous amount. Relatively recently, I got into a conversation with an artist couple I know who were looking for a new apartment, and it came up that they, combined, make less than $30k. At this point in my life, I cannot imagine accepting a salary for less than $42k. I do not that the kids and I would not actually starve on a lower salary, it is simply that my "bare minimum" has been adjusted upwards - and I consider this a great thing. I am hardly a crazy spender, mind, and money *for the sake of money* is not, in itself, important to me. I also have no debt, and in fact until a year ago (at 30) had never had a credit card.

More recently still, I have been expanding my connections with people who make a great deal more income than I do, and likewise have been altering my mindset on what is a "given" in terms of money. I know from experience that until the idea of having more money seems realistic and *reasonable* to me, it will not happen. So I am happy to be making these changes of late in my viewpoint.

[Cochonette]

Interesting, interesting. Great responses.

So, LostMyMap, there are advantages and disadvantages to how I am now. I guess the idea is to truly appreciate, but not necessarily be satisfied? Two different concepts.

Now that I think about it, if I am to be taking classes full-time next semester, $11 would SUCK. I'd only work 15-ish hours, if I even still have a job. And what I'm making now will certainly not save me up enough to get through it without a job. Maybe just barely enough to get through it working 15. That's another thing... How am I to get a raise when I'll soon be like, "I can only work less than half the amount I have been..."? The other thing is, I am not sure how I'd get a job paying more, so I do feel dependent on this current job.

But I should keep my options open, it's true.

[SatvikBeri]

Manual labor jobs tend to pay very little.

I'm getting paid $50,000, and I feel like I'm getting gypped, because most people at my office make much more than I do. I'm actually in the process of planning how I'll ask for a raise right now.

[Cochonette]

Hmm. Okay. So I should set a goal. Three weeks, I'll talk to my boss about a raise. I am going to work extra hard at work for the next three weeks. I deserve to be making at LEAST $11. $9 is just not enough.

[SnerpGoodWord]

If you happen to be numerically inclined, reading this might be informative just to get an idea of what other are making and what's "reasonable" given your education, living in DC etc.

Overall I would say that 9/hour for any sort of semi-skilled labor in DC is underpaid.

[Cochonette]

Wow!

The aggregate income distribution is highly concentrated towards the top, with the top 6.37% earning roughly one third of all income, and those with upper-middle incomes controlling a large, though declining, share of the total earned income.[3][9] Income inequality in the United States, which had decreased slowly after World War II until 1970, began to increase in the 1970s until reaching a peak in 2006. It declined a little in 2007.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Wow!

That shouldn't be a huge surprise - that's why they're the top 6% or whatever - they make a lot more money than everyone else. Also, a lot of income distribution in the US is cost-of-living related. A 50K salary makes you comfortably upper middle class in a place where single family homes cost $75k. But it's near-impoverishment if you're trying to live in Manhattan.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

That shouldn't be a huge surprise - that's why they're the top 6% or whatever - they make a lot more money than everyone else. Also, a lot of income distribution in the US is cost-of-living related. A 50K salary makes you comfortably upper middle class in a place where single family homes cost $75k. But it's near-impoverishment if you're trying to live in Manhattan.

Yeah, sure... My cousin lives in a nice apartment in Brooklyn on $20k (20/hr... she's a studio manager) and says she does just fine.

[Cochonette]

This is so weird to me... All this time I have heard people complaining about only making $30k, then I realize that's actually like $25/hr. My god... Well, if it's a family, that's not that much, but an individual...

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

This is so weird to me... All this time I have heard people complaining about only making $30k, then I realize that's actually like $25/hr. My god... Well, if it's a family, that's not that much, but an individual...

If you work 40 hours a week $30k is about $15/hour. You can get from the hourly rate to the yearly rate by multiplying by 2,000.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

This is so weird to me... All this time I have heard people complaining about only making $30k, then I realize that's actually like $25/hr. My god... Well, if it's a family, that's not that much, but an individual...

It depends on hours worked obviously. If you work 40 hours per week, 50 weeks per year (a pretty typical schedule) then that means 2000 hours per year. So $25/hour would be $50k per year.

Edit: SatvikBeri beat me to it

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by SatvikBeri

If you work 40 hours a week $30k is about $15/hour. You can get from the hourly rate to the yearly rate by multiplying by 2,000.

Oh... uh.... well, I did a calculation that says I'd be making nearly $17k a year at 36/hr a week for $9/hr. But that isn't the case because I only make about $1100 a month, so that would be $13k. I'm not sure at what point deductions come into the calculation when discussing salary, but I make this much ($1100) after the deductions from my paycheck. Like supposedly I'd be making around $1350 a month, but that's before deductions.

[Cochonette]

I should say I also get a lot of free food at work, so I guess it feels more like I'm making $11 already.

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Oh... uh.... well, I did a calculation that says I'd be making nearly $17k a year at 36/hr a week for $9/hr. But that isn't the case because I only make about $1100 a month, so that would be $13k. I'm not sure at what point deductions come into the calculation when discussing salary, but I make this much ($1100) after the deductions from my paycheck. Like supposedly I'd be making around $1350 a month, but that's before deductions.

Most people usually talk about pre-tax salary.

Before all taxes, $9/hr*36hr/week*52week/yr = $16,848 per year.

Edit: And the X2000 calculation applies to before tax wages, of course.

[Cochonette]

Okay. That makes more sense.

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

I should say I also get a lot of free food at work, so I guess it feels more like I'm making $11 already.

Mmmm free food.

If you are eating there one meal a day, then yes that definitely impacts your finances at least a little bit. I currently spend a few hundred a month on food living alone, so a free meal a day would be awesome



As for your concerns about wages, don't sweat it! I've only had one job and I was making $8.40 an hour with it, with 30 hours a week, even less than you're making and less hours too. Of course, I am still subsidized by my parents but still I know what you are saying. $9 an hour doesn't leave a lot of room for saving or discretionary spending.


I wish you well with asking for a raise

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Interesting, interesting. Great responses.

So, LostMyMap, there are advantages and disadvantages to how I am now. I guess the idea is to truly appreciate, but not necessarily be satisfied? Two different concepts.

I think there's room for both. I'm not unhappy where I am as far as standard of living, but I know there are better places. And I want to keep moving, keep progressing, financially as well as the rest of it.

[danthony]

Always have an attitude of abundance and you can really start to attract more wealth into your life. Improve yourself through financial education and so on. I believe things will look up for you just because you aren't satisfied with the status quo.

[Cochonette]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

Mmmm free food.

If you are eating there one meal a day, then yes that definitely impacts your finances at least a little bit. I currently spend a few hundred a month on food living alone, so a free meal a day would be awesome

I wish you well with asking for a raise

Thanks. Yeah, the free food is a big one. I could spend $200/mo on food. This way, I spend maybe $50/mo. So maybe I save $150.

[SatvikBeri]

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Thanks. Yeah, the free food is a big one. I could spend $200/mo on food. This way, I spend maybe $50/mo. So maybe I save $150.

And how many hours do you work a month? If you work 32 hours/week that's 128 hours/month, so the free food is worth a little over $1/hour.

[Cochonette]

I work about 36 hours on average.

[catalyst]

As a student, I barely earned minimum wage so I can empathize. However, the money is out there if you want it enough...

I'm earning more money now, in the low six figures, but I'm always thinking about how I can make more money. Why? Because it's a game to me. It doesn't necessarily make me happier, as I know there is no end. However, it's something tangible that I can accomplish.

Don't feel guilty for wanting to make money - it'll be a barrier in your way to financial wealth. The value you provide is represented by the money you earn - and what you give up for it. Take what you can get. Don't feel guilt for wanting money - there is more than enough to go around.

Originally Posted by Cochonette

Uh... so... I make $9/hr at my current job. It is kind of my first real job (my previous job was just as a student worker in the library). $9 is the most I've ever made. I've been thinking that once I learn sautee at current job, I'll ask for a raise to $11, which is what the chef above me makes (he is trying to get a raise, but it hasn't been forthcoming). Why $11? Well, I'm the least experienced in the kitchen, I am always self-aware about my weaknesses and feel I could do better before asking more... like I'm slow, not very organized, not assertive... these are things I'm working on, but I always think, "Well, I could understand why he wouldn't want to give me a raise yet, considering..."

But when I think about it... the top chef makes $34k, the other I think makes about the same. That's... almost four times what I make. And they're good, but uh... if they can be making that much, I should think I can be making more indeed! But yet, the guy above me can't seem to get a raise. It's a pretty huge disparity I see, and the main three factors I see playing into that difference in pay are speed, being organized, and being assertive.

I also noticed that most people I meet make a lot more money than I do. People in this city seem to make LOTS of money. Granted, it's an expensive city. But they make so much in my eyes! If I made $20/hr, I'd be totally thrilled! My roommate is making $25/hr (she's 26) and complains. Seriously, I seem to hear people complain they're not making enough, pretty much no matter how much they're making. Yet I get by on $9/hr not even working 40 hours every week (some weeks, yes). If I kept up this job at this pace and pay I'd make about $12k in a year. Now, granted if I were paying $600-700 for rent like the average in this city, I'd be like I need at least $10-11/hr to get by.

You see how I think about things? I guess, I just dwell on how can I make just a little bit more... I think that $15/hr would be fantastic right now. $11 would be cool. $9 I don't like. Even though I want to make more money, I am still gonna be grateful for my standard of living, ability to actually eat well and have a nice apartment... many don't even have that. My mom makes do on $8000 a year, somehow, and still has money for luxuries and sending me support money.

I am looking at info about how much people in my city make. The president of my university makes nearly $1 million per year (over twice as much as Obama), and the university men's basketball coach makes $1.8 million.

I am not sure if I actually have a question, other than, what are your thoughts? I go for LoA, just don't throw myself 100% into the concept like a lot of people here.

I guess, coming from a fairly poor background (for an American), I feel semi-ok with not making so much? It would be nice to make more, but I wanna make sure I earned it, too, and know that I know how to get things done and help make the world go 'round... I don't wanna feel entitled about what I'm making, 'cause I know I have had a lot of sense of entitlement in the past, thinking I was above work like I'm doing now... but yet not being able to get things done.

[Indiana]

Change your paradigm, honey.

I doubled my income in the last two years, just by deciding what I was worth was worth more (and I was making over US$25 a hour two years ago).

Am I technically all that better than most of my peers? Maybe. Maybe not. But I think I work smarter, I make the right connections, and I ask for more, so I get better clients.

This is a freelancing perspective, but I think it applies to how you pitch yourself in the salaried workplace too. One of the key ideas is that the people who can afford to pay well will be scared off by low rates. They will assume you are not very good and that is why you are charging low.

If you want to work for people who can afford to pay high rates, you have to price yourself high.

Like: I am prepared to pay a reasonable amount for rent. When I do rental searches, I never bother to look for anything under a certain amount per month because I do not think it will be good enough to suit my requirements.

Figure out your strengths. Build specialisations. Price yourself to the top market.

[curiouslyrandom]

Indiana, if I could rep you more often, I would. That perspective was spot-on.

Instead of thinking about what the job is worth to you, what are you worth to the job? Are you only performing at a $9/hour level, or do you perform at a higher level? I believe you care about being good at what you do, so I'd say you're definitely worth more than what you're getting. If the place you're at now won't honor that, keep your ears and eyes open for other opportunities. They ARE out there.

The most I've asked for was $85/hour, and I got it. That was for one afternoon of giving a presentation and teaching a class. I ended up making about $1k that day when all was said and done (including retail sales and class seats). It took some prep work and networking to get the job, but I did it. That means I could do it again.

Some days I don't make a dime, but I'm still working on building up to where I want to be in the next few years. I don't tend to think in terms of "hourly wages" unless I'm under contract to charge a client that way, so to me, income is flexible. Hourly feels kind of... rigid and limiting. But that's just me. I have issues with putting time and money into neat little boxes.

[garentee]

All of this talk of pricing your self higher is definitely true.. However if you are trying to earn your living in an industry that has low profit margins such as a restaurant, you do have to realize there is a ceiling... a low one at that for the most part. I myself work in an industry that is low profit margin for sure and in order for me to be very profitable to the extent what I want to be, I have to change what I am doing almost entirely which does not come over night. The best advice I can give is to get your experience in restaurants but do not try to make a career out of it.. you can always fall back on your experience, but you really are not going to make a Lot of money working in a kitchen.. been there done that.