Computers

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Angela

Of course there are exceptions, Snerp, and perhaps your business is one of them. Generally, I think, the people who participate here in the forums have businesses or desire income streams that involve attracting customers in less specialized ways -- ways that would mostly benefit from having a web presence.

That's interesting Angela... What sort of business modals do the people here desire and why? (Serious question BTW, otherwise I use the rolls eyes emoticon!)

[Angela]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

That's interesting Angela... What sort of business modals do the people here desire and why?

Have you not read people's posts here? All kinds of stuff. There's one woman, Rebecca, who has a very successful income-producing lucid dreaming website. There's the woman with the diapers, several coaches, psychics, accountants/bookkeepers, and other services providers. There are a lot of people who love to write, obviously, and want to make money writing about what they're interested in, and an SBI or other infopreneurial site is perfect for them. You could do a poll!

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by Angela

Of course there are exceptions, Snerp, and perhaps your business is one of them. Generally, I think, the people who participate here in the forums have businesses or desire income streams that involve attracting customers in less specialized ways -- ways that would mostly benefit from having a web presence.

My point is simply that there's a big difference between what the OP asked about - businesses in general - vs. the types of hypothetical businesses that people talk about on these forums. There are broad classes of business that don't need a website. For example, franchises. Typically the parent company needs a site, but the franchises do not. Franchises make up a high percentage of businesses.

Another example is that most non-franchise retail that doesn't sell online has no need for a website. Think something like a shoe store. You want to make sure you show up in google local search and similar services (since people use them in place of a phone books) but that's about it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

My point is simply that there's a big difference between what the OP asked about - businesses in general - vs. the types of hypothetical businesses that people talk about on these forums.

Yes, the question did look like it was about businesses in general. I've been talking here in the context of what people who participate here would be doing with their businesses, because that's the context that inspired the question, I think, in another thread.

But of course there are businesses that can thrive without a website.

(I still think the majority of businesses, in general, are doing themselves a big disservice if they don't have a web presence.)

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Angela

Have you not read people's posts here? All kinds of stuff. There's one woman, Rebecca, who has a very successful income-producing lucid dreaming website. There's the woman with the diapers, several coaches, psychics, accountants/bookkeepers, and other services providers. There are a lot of people who love to write, obviously, and want to make money writing about what they're interested in, and an SBI or other infopreneurial site is perfect for them. You could do a poll!

But that's my point- they are writing about what they are intereted in not doing what they are interested in (unless their greater interest is writing). SnerpGoodWord makes a good point when looking at whether MOST businesses require a website

[Angela]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

But that's my point- they are writing about what they are intereted in not doing what they are interested in (unless their greater interest is writing).

I think it's pretty safe to say that people who write here are interested in writing.

Maybe you're thinking that time spent writing precludes building a successful business? That's one benefit SBI offers to people who don't yet have the skills -- they give you the tools to get up and running quickly, and to pick a subject for your site that matches well with the amount of time you want to put into it on an ongoing basis, regardless of the proportion of writing to other doings.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Angela

I think it's pretty safe to say that people who write here are interested in writing.

Maybe you're thinking that time spent writing precludes building a successful business? That's one benefit SBI offers to people who don't yet have the skills -- they give you the tools to get up and running quickly, and to pick a subject for your site that matches well with the amount of time you want to put into it on an ongoing basis, regardless of the proportion of writing to other doings.

I hate writing! I read my posts sometimes after I post them and its like garbled rubbish! Maybe that's why I don't see the writing/ business connection. I outsource my paperwork to the far east where possible. Sadly they do a better job than me!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

I hate writing! I read my posts sometimes after I post them and its like garbled rubbish!

And yet you still write -- for free.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by Angela

And yet you still write -- for free.

yes but not for my business, otherwise i'd be bankrupt!

[LostMyMap]

I'm not going to waste my time fixing anyone's set in stone beliefs. But for those who read this thread and are still open, let me work on a few things.

Registering a domain, setting up a web site, managing it, etc. are not hassles. It's all pretty cake these days. I don't use SBI but I looked at it and it looks pretty straightforward. If you think all that is a hassle, there are any number of us that you can outsource it to and we will take care of it for you. I think tax forms are a hassle, but they are necessary and I am happy to outsource that to an accountant.

As someone else said, there really isn't a downside to it. Of course there is some cost. Just as with the display ad in the newspaper or phone book. But pretty minimal compared to the possible benefit. Even adsense ads can burn up your money pretty quickly if you aren't careful.

Pretty much all of the marketing how to I've read, written by people who have actual experience, says that testimonials, references, case studies, etc. are hugely valuable at helping establish your cred. Again, the effort to do it is less than the effort it takes to argue against it.

Even a retail store that doesn't sell online, they can put information on what they do sell on their site. My wife uses that all the time. She looks for a particular shoe brand online, then goes to the stores that have them and tries them on.

I could go on...

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

Even a retail store that doesn't sell online, they can put information on what they do sell on their site. My wife uses that all the time. She looks for a particular shoe brand online, then goes to the stores that have them and tries them on.

This is undoubtedly true for a wide range of retail, but it's not an argument for having a web site. When a customer follows this traffic pattern, they google the brand, go to the brand's web site, look at their dealer list, and then go to the nearest dealer. So what the retail store needs to do is be in all their brands' dealer lists, which means getting your info onto the brands' sites. It doesn't require (or benefit) from a site of your own.

This is an example of a general principle - many businesses have little or need for a site of their own, but have a substantial need to have an accurate and positive presence on sites they do not own (google local, phone book sites, brand sites, trade association sites, BBB, review sites etc.).

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

This is undoubtedly true for a wide range of retail, but it's not an argument for having a web site. When a customer follows this traffic pattern, they google the brand, go to the brand's web site, look at their dealer list, and then go to the nearest dealer. So what the retail store needs to do is be in all their brands' dealer lists, which means getting your info onto the brands' sites. It doesn't require (or benefit) from a site of your own.

This is an example of a general principle - many businesses have little or need for a site of their own, but have a substantial need to have an accurate and positive presence on sites they do not own (google local, phone book sites, dealer sites, trade association sites, BBB, review sites etc.).

I find people on this forum are orientated in certain ways towards business- internet over real world, service over industrial, writing over hands on. I wonder why there is such an imbalance on a PD site? I sometimes feel that rather than adding value, a website hides a lack of value.

When all is said and done- what "value" does a blog or info site provide other than being a medium for services that do provide value?

[LostMyMap]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

This is undoubtedly true for a wide range of retail, but it's not an argument for having a web site. When a customer follows this traffic pattern, they google the brand, go to the brand's web site, look at their dealer list, and then go to the nearest dealer. So what the retail store needs to do is be in all their brands' dealer lists, which means getting your info onto the brands' sites. It doesn't require (or benefit) from a site of your own.

So I gave a specific example of what my wife does, and you are arguing that it isn't so? Are you in the room too? And if you want to respond, well everyone else does it that way, OK, but got any references to back that up? You are throwing around a lot of 'facts' i.e. 'most businesses are franchises', 'testimonials are a waste'. You sure? OK. Got a reference?

I don't disagree with having your business listed with Google etc. either. I have those listings. But I get more hits from my web site. That's not really even good enough to generalize on though, because of the nature of my business. I can tell you this, when I find a listing on Google local or a phone book site, etc. the FIRST thing I look for is their URL. But hey that's just me.

So my wife starts at the Sanita web site, finds "joes shoes" and "bobs shoes" near our house. Joe has a site, she goes there, finds their special Labor Day sale coupon, and hey there's a pair of Teva's she wants to try on too. Bob didn't have a site, so he misses out.

There really isn't any argument against a web site other than some cost. The benefit is how you use it to your best advantage.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

I find people on this forum are orientated in certain ways towards business- internet over real world, service over industrial, writing over hands on. I wonder why there is such an imbalance on a PD site? I sometimes feel that rather than adding value, a website hides a lack of value.

When all is said and done- what "value" does a blog or info site provide other than being a medium for services that do provide value?

I've noticed the same thing! I'm a hands on guy myself, manager at work and selling goods offline.
A well done website can add value to a business but a poorly done website (say, 50% of websites) takes away.
There are certain blogs that I like where I get value from the posts. Generally, those sites offer products, whether it be books or courses. The books and courses tend to be vastly superior to the individual tips. Pay attention here bloggers: the reason being is that a blog tends not to be very organized. I can take a little here and there from a blog but it takes a well-organized system to create real change. If you run a blog or info site, compliment it with a book/course!!!

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by LostMyMap

I can tell you this, when I find a listing on Google local or a phone book site, etc. the FIRST thing I look for is their URL. But hey that's just me.

+1.
I usually don't even bother with businesses that don't have a website when I do searches like this. If there are 10 listings and two of them have websites, I choose from those two.
The only way I'll even pay attention to the other ones is if none of them have URLs.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Mounds

+1.
I usually don't even bother with businesses that don't have a website when I do searches like this. If there are 10 listings and two of them have websites, I choose from those two.
The only way I'll even pay attention to the other ones is if none of them have URLs.

Me, too.

[LostMyMap]

Ask an Expert: Should you have a website? You bet - USATODAY.com

business - Why You Need a Website

Top 10 Reasons Why Your Business Needs a Website=

Why have a website for your business?

etc. etc. Not just me saying this...

[James81]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

SnerpGoodWord makes a good point when looking at whether MOST businesses require a website

I wrote out a very long post about this, but I think your laser-like, jilted focus on Angela either caused you to miss my point or you just didn't read it or something.

You keep using that word "require"....why?

I don't think Angela or anybody else is saying it's a requirement. I think we all agree that a business does not NEED a website.

But the point isn't that you need a website to thrive. The point is that, in this day and age, considering that the downside of having a website is so minimal and that there are literally only ADVANTAGES to having a website, that you'd be....er...stupid? stubborn? something like those things?....to NOT have a website.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by James81

I wrote out a very long post about this, but I think your laser-like, jilted focus on Angela either caused you to miss my point or you just didn't read it or something.

You keep using that word "require"....why?

I don't think Angela or anybody else is saying it's a requirement. I think we all agree that a business does not NEED a website.

But the point isn't that you need a website to thrive. The point is that, in this day and age, considering that the downside of having a website is so minimal and that there are literally only ADVANTAGES to having a website, that you'd be....er...stupid? stubborn? something like those things?....to NOT have a website.

Thanks. However since I asked the question I can tell you the POINT was as stated in the OP and did require the word require!

[James81]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

Thanks. However since I asked the question I can tell you the POINT was as stated in the OP and did require the word require!

So you ask a rigid question: Does a business require a website? And you have your answer: Of course not, but it's stupid not to.

What is the point of the question? To get people to admit that it's not required to have a website? Just not quite sure why you ask a question that I'm pretty sure you (and anyone with common sense) already knows the answer to.

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by James81

So you ask a rigid question: Does a business require a website? And you have your answer: Of course not, but it's stupid not to.

What is the point of the question? To get people to admit that it's not required to have a website? Just not quite sure why you ask a question that I'm pretty sure you (and anyone with common sense) already knows the answer to.

There are more business possibilities in the world than you, I and all the members of this forum could come up with. Unless you know all of them and whether or not in this day and age they can thrive without a website then I don't know how you can call it common sense. If I simply wanted to know whether a business needed a website to exist- that's what I would have asked- but I chose specific words regarding what I wanted to know.

I have two general interest reasons for asking this- and for the record I happen to think some of the drama out of a crisis posts you've made are not worth asking, but I've never said that before.

[James81]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

There are more business possibilities in the world than you, I and all the members of this forum could come up with. Unless you know all of them and whether or not in this day and age they can thrive without a website then I don't know how you can call it common sense. If I simply wanted to know whether a business needed a website to exist- that's what I would have asked- but I chose specific words regarding what I wanted to know.

It's common sense because businesses thrived all the time before the 90's...that is, before the internet came onto the scene. So, of course businesses can and do thrive without the internet (i.e. a website).

However, you've walked onto a forum that is heavily into the idea of building online businesses...that is, building businesses that do not have a brick and mortar location in the real world, but exist purely online. In other words, the main focus of most of the people who create businesses here is focusing on building purely online businesses...that's just the general makeup of the "population" here. And it makes sense because that's what the site owner has done for himself...and also strongly recommends others do.

It's akin to walking into a pizza place and asking them if a restaurant that sells steak could thrive. I think the people who work in that pizza place would concede that point (that, yes, a steakhouse could do very well), but their focus is really on pizza...they don't CARE how a steakhouse thrives because they are there to learn about pizza and how to thrive selling pizza.

Originally Posted by escapeplan

I have two general interest reasons for asking this- and for the record I happen to think some of the drama out of a crisis posts you've made are not worth asking, but I've never said that before.

What are your two general interest reasons for asking?

[escapeplan]

Originally Posted by James81

It's common sense because businesses thrived all the time before the 90's...that is, before the internet came onto the scene. So, of course businesses can and do thrive without the internet (i.e. a website).

However, you've walked onto a forum that is heavily into the idea of building online businesses...that is, building businesses that do not have a brick and mortar location in the real world, but exist purely online. In other words, the main focus of most of the people who create businesses here is focusing on building purely online businesses...that's just the general makeup of the "population" here. And it makes sense because that's what the site owner has done for himself...and also strongly recommends others do.

It's akin to walking into a pizza place and asking them if a restaurant that sells steak could thrive. I think the people who work in that pizza place would concede that point (that, yes, a steakhouse could do very well), but their focus is really on pizza...they don't CARE how a steakhouse thrives because they are there to learn about pizza and how to thrive selling pizza.

What are your two general interest reasons for asking?

Well You've actually answered my two interest reasons individually- but I asked to get a wider feel from the community here.

My first query was regarding whether in modern times people FELT it was necessary to have a website in order to thrive (don't the 90's feel a long way away!)

Secondly, yes of course I am interested from a human nature point in why a PD forum APPEARS to attract so many people interested in blogging/ website businesses. This can be broken down further as follows:

1/ Is the interest in web businesses down to a lack of real world skills and/ or inspiration to do anything else?

2/ Are people using websites as a preferred delivery method for their businesses and why (in other words the website is the main feature rather than a complimentary part of the business)

3/ If Steve were to run another type of business- 30 day trial? would that promote a different type of thread in the business section?

4/ For those doing SBI! etc- are they living their passion or only writing about it/ blogging about it?

Partly it's a human nature interest, and partly it's commercial interests about the necessity of websites these days. A broad range of opinions interests me.

[AuspiciousEight]

Originally Posted by escapeplan

To thrive, most businesses these days require a website...

Discuss!

In my entire life I've never once given money to or done business with any company or organization that doesn't have a web presence. Even the Amish people that I bought some furniture off of had a website.

Young people today use the web for virtually everything. When we want something to eat, we punch in "food" into our smartphone, and it directs us to the nearest place to get food. If your restaurant doesn't show up when we punch in food - you just lost our business. If we want to make an expensive purchase, we do our research - online. We read online reviews, and we look for the company's website that is selling the product that we're considering purchasing. If your company doesn't have a website, then we won't purchase your product. Period.

Today, for a lot of young people, the Internet is so prevalent that it's almost a part of who we are. Setting up a website is as easy as writing up a word document describing your business and what you do. It costs 10 bucks a month to host it. If you can't pull this off, then you have no credibility. Why should I put faith in your product if you're too incompetent to have a web presence?

For myself and a lot of other young people, if you don't have a web presence then you don't exist. Unless you're selling adult diapers, or some other product that specifically targets people that were born before the Internet, then you're business is going to die a slow and painful death.

And even if you are selling adult diapers, or some other product that specifically targets old people, without a web presence your business is still going to die. It'll just take longer and the pain will be spread out over several decades.

Because the truth is, eventually I'm going to get old. And when I'm old, and I want to do research on what brand of adult diapers I should buy, the first thing I'm going to do is ask my smartphone, which by then should be able to fetch me a beer, block out the sun, and make pizza - in that order. Of course, the smartphone will also still be powered by Google - which means that its opinion is going to be slightly biased toward companies that show up in the Google search results.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by James81

But the point isn't that you need a website to thrive. The point is that, in this day and age, considering that the downside of having a website is so minimal and that there are literally only ADVANTAGES to having a website, that you'd be....er...stupid? stubborn? something like those things?....to NOT have a website.

The downside is small only if you place a small value on your time.

[Mounds]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

The downside is small only if you place a small value on your time.

Just do what I'm planning. Pay someone else

Otherwise, unless your really good at it, I'd be inclined to agree!