On-line Guru's: are they ever worth it?

[AaronA]

It seems like there's tons of online marketing coaches, gurus, etc. out there. I'm sure many have had success, and others may just be rehashing info available elsewhere. So, are there any out there that are particularly good at getting other people other started, or bringing their business to the next level? I know SiteBuildIt has an excellent reputation for instance, and Ken Evoy offers various support packages, and I've read positive things about Perry Marshall. But do you need to have your feet wet before it's any benefit? I'm sure that each case is individual, but I'd be interested in hearing about people's thoughts and experiences.

[Curtis2011]

Total beginners can do SBI, although if you know html it will be easier/more convenient for you.

It is just one business model. There are tons online.

[wido1982]

Most so called 'guru's' aren't as good as they claim to be. But there are a couple who really know what they are talking about and actually share valuable information with their visitors. Google these people:

- frank kern (probably the best out there, his products are expensive, but well worth the money)
- jonathan volk
- john Chow
- Travis Sago

[codefreeze]

I thought the SBI freely available internet marketing info very useful, although I don't use the service itself.

David Frey did some pretty good stuff (I found it very useful) a few years back - looks like he's still going strong (always a good sign). He is more general small biz marketing, although he does some Internet related stuff.

Steve P has also written some good stuff. But you knew that

It depends a bit on what you are trying to setup/do.

[gamingaffiliatesguide]

Having mentors especially for that industry you are in say ebay selling for example, is a better way to go.

You don't get what you don't ask for and most people are scared to ask business and webmasters what they need to do to be successful. Don't expect all the secrets but most are very friendly and can point you in the right direction. Just don't be too needy and respect their time as they have a life to live and a business to run. If you want to add an incentive for them you can signup to any subaffiliate links they might have.

I offer the same services but focus the gaming industry.

[SnerpGoodWord]

I suppose it depends on what they're guruing about, how well they know the subject, and how well they convey that information. Some gurus are useful. Others are not. Just depends...

In general though, gurus suffer from the "those who can't do, teach" problem. This is especially true in fields like trading and real estate where a truly skilled individual can make a pile of money and therefore few if any highly skilled individuals are guruing.

Fields like personal development, where guruing is about the only way to make money, probably have better gurus on average.

[AaronA]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

I suppose it depends on what they're guruing about, how well they know the subject, and how well they convey that information. Some gurus are useful. Others are not. Just depends...

In general though, gurus suffer from the "those who can't do, teach" problem. This is especially true in fields like trading and real estate where a truly skilled individual can make a pile of money and therefore few if any highly skilled individuals are guruing.

Fields like personal development, where guruing is about the only way to make money, probably have better gurus on average.

I think that with real estate, trading, and internet marketing would have in common would be the relatively low cost of entry. That means that gurus can find people dissatisfied with their current situation, and lure them in with their program. That said, I think a fairly successful person could parlay their success into an even more lucrative "guru'ing" career. Take trading for example; if you slip out when you're on an upswing, you can market a course bragging about your success, and remove yourself from the risk pool of professional trading. On a slower scale, that would hold for real estate as well, as a pro real estate developer usually has a lot of daily grind work to put up with. None of that says that these folks would have a successful system, just that there would be some reasons for them to get into the guru market.

I would say the same thing for internet marketing specialists. There is probably more stress in coming up with new and different products that is alleviated when you just start marketing your services to other people who are marketing whatever it is they want to sell. You can focus on coming up with ideas for someone who is focusing on something else. That doesn't seem like it would have to be a person who isn't good at marketing deciding to teach it instead. That said, there are plenty of people out there who can slap up a website and declare themselves a guru. So, I'd prefer to know overall track records of people, and that can be tough to pull out from the hype.

Aaron

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by AaronA

I think that with real estate, trading, and internet marketing would have in common would be the relatively low cost of entry. That means that gurus can find people dissatisfied with their current situation, and lure them in with their program. That said, I think a fairly successful person could parlay their success into an even more lucrative "guru'ing" career. Take trading for example; if you slip out when you're on an upswing, you can market a course bragging about your success, and remove yourself from the risk pool of professional trading. On a slower scale, that would hold for real estate as well, as a pro real estate developer usually has a lot of daily grind work to put up with. None of that says that these folks would have a successful system, just that there would be some reasons for them to get into the guru market.

I would say the same thing for internet marketing specialists. There is probably more stress in coming up with new and different products that is alleviated when you just start marketing your services to other people who are marketing whatever it is they want to sell. You can focus on coming up with ideas for someone who is focusing on something else. That doesn't seem like it would have to be a person who isn't good at marketing deciding to teach it instead. That said, there are plenty of people out there who can slap up a website and declare themselves a guru. So, I'd prefer to know overall track records of people, and that can be tough to pull out from the hype.

Aaron

I know with trading especially there are few if any good gurus. The only somewhat recent big-time winners I can think of who have done much public guruing are Ed Seykota and William O'Neil. I would say Ed's MUCH better at trading than he is at teaching others to trade. Probably true of O'Neil as well although his trading results were nowhere near as good as Ed's either.

[AaronA]

Originally Posted by SnerpGoodWord

I know with trading especially there are few if any good gurus. The only somewhat recent big-time winners I can think of who have done much public guruing are Ed Seykota and William O'Neil. I would say Ed's MUCH better at trading than he is at teaching others to trade. Probably true of O'Neil as well although his trading results were nowhere near as good as Ed's either.

I really can't speak to the number of good trading gurus. I could see how someone who had a successful run would want to get out of the markets for something more stable, once they got enough F* you money. I've read about the Turtle Method (from Market Wizards) and I think the problem with any method is that the market doesn't follow any one system, so the data can fit a lot of different patterns. I tend to think that people who were successful traders were the ones who got luckier than others, and didn't manage to do anything really stupid. There are smart people who were trumped by bad luck. That's why I tend to stay out of trading. I'd guess the lack of trading great trading gurus is also due to the complexity and randomness in that arena.

I was thinking more about the internet marketing gurus, though. There seems to be bunches of them out there, and there is a lot to learn about the field. That said, I believe people can get sucked into overpriced classes that they won't benefit from. So, I was interested in hearing about people's thoughts and experiences. I personally prefer communities like this one, where there are different people with varying experience levels who provide comments on websites, business plans, etc. out of generosity. But, I could imagine working with a guru on a targeted area could accelerate thing. A mentorship, like was mentioned above, would probably also be helpful.

On the internet marketing note, I've been getting Frank Kern's emailings, and it seems like there's more to learn from watching what he's doing than there might be with the material he's selling itself. First, his material is very expensive. I think that to a lot of buyers that signals credibility. I imagine a lot of people turn off potential buyers by underpricing themselves. Second, he uses multi-media; lots of things to watch. As bandwidth is cheaper, it's better to pack more into the presentation. Third, he pitches other people. I see other gurus do that as well. There's the obvious affiliate payback of course, but I think recommending others extends Kern's brand as well. It shows him as a rainmaker, someone who can elevate others. So when he wants to have a live workshop, he can demand top dollar, as attendees can try to become the next person he promotes. So, there's a lot to be learned, even from gurus promotional materials.

Aaron