Computing career options

[MrGuyUK]

I know this is probably the wrong place to ask, but this forum is the biggest collection of wise people I can think of who will hopefully offer good advice.

A few days ago, I posted this thread:
Staying motivated when uninterested

Basically it’s a thread of me complaining I hate college and that the reason I am there is for other people, not myself. To sum it up, I want to go to a prestigious uni to study computing or computing sciences. I'm currently achieving a straight A at A/S level computing, yet to do computing in uni, I need to be good at maths, which I’m not (I’m getting a D/E) I don’t think I’ll get the maths grades I need to be able to do the computing at the uni's I want. I hate college, it's stressing me out, it’s upsetting me, and apart from computing, it doesn't interest me. I mean sure, if I get A level in psychology and theatre n computing they’re useful, but wont get me where I want. They can get me somewhere but not where I want. So why stick out another year of getting stressed, studying things that don't interest me and generally being miserable, just for the opportunity to get somewhere I don't want to go?

I've spoken to the other people I’m there for (family and friends) my family said they want me to be happy, but if I want to leave and still keep their respect, I need plans, I need to research and I need to prove I know what I’m doing. My friends have tried to dissuade me, but they say generally the same thing.

So based on my reasoning for wanting to leave college, I’ll only "drop out" of college after I have my A/S levels (which should be in a few months time) and if I can find something that is computing related, either a different kind of qualification or a job.

I'm hoping there's some people in the computing industry round here that can give me some detailed info and insight on something to do instead of college that is computing related.

I know you may thing I’m a wannabe computer teen, but I’m not, I’ve been born and raised with PC's (my dad worked extremely high up in Barclays IT department since he finished studying one of the first computing science courses in the country at Sheffield Polytek) I spend majority of my time on a PC, and I don’t mean on MSN. I spend it doing personal projects. I’m a competent programmer in 3 – 4 programming languages and have been taught the fundamentals of programming. I have evidence that I know how to use a computer (portfolio work, websites, projects etc ask for more info, I don't want to seem like I’m advertising) its genuinely the only thing that interests me enough to want to follow a career in it.

I'm a clever person, I took 13 GCSE's and an A/S level last year (at high school) because I was accelerated, I did a GCSE a year early also. I have 2 A's, 9 B's and 2 C's at GCSE and in a few months, ill have (hopefully) A/S levels from THE BEST non private college in the country including at least a B in computing.

I know people say qualifications are everything, but are they really? Is there any way into the computing industry without anything above good high-school qualifications, 3 - 4 A/S levels from a very reputable college and a good portfolio of work? If not, are there any other qualifications or training I can do?

I suppose what I'm asking is: What are my other options besides college?


Thanks in advanced!

[andrew]

I say if you already know it, why take the class? Sure there are a lot of business that will only hire you if you have a degree yadada. I'm not sure what languages you know, but for the web design and Flash area, a portfolio is more important than a degree.

I spent highschool learing all my design and development skills that I would have learnt in college. So I'm coming out of high school better than people coming out of college, because I have industry experience, not just classroom teachings. I have a nice portfolio and a lot of connections and I have ever been asked what my degrees are before starting a job. Sure you might be able to ask for more, but still, if your portfolio sucks and you have a degree, you're less likely to get hired than somebody without a degree and a great portfolio.

To top it off, I want to run my own business, so going to school to get a degree for something I already know is trivial. But going to school and learning things I don't already know and can't really learn myself is great!

But I say do what you want to do that will help you get what you want. In the end it's just bragging rights. Nobody really cares where or what degree you have if you can or can't do your job well.

[nickynoodles]

Firstly, some background about myself so you can judge if you should take advice from me ... I'm 26, went to a 'top 10' UK Uni, did computer science, work as a software engineer and make good money.

A degree is really important in IT and especially in software development. Many employers will bin, yes bin without reading, any CVs that don't show a 2:1 degree from a top 10 uni. When I first started I thought this has elitist snobbery. After working with guys who don't have degrees I understand why. Would you go to a dentist that didn't have a degree? I've got to the stage in my career where I occasionally have to look at CVs. I now do the same, no degree = bin. I've yet to work with a good young engineer that didn't have a degree.

My maths isn't great. Don't let any one tell you that you need to be good at maths to be a great developer, certainly web development. FWIW, I got a C at A level maths, and 3 As in other subjects. You should look around for courses that don't need a maths AS level. Try and get your maths up to a C level, get extra tutoring if you need. Find out if you can do one of those 'shooting fish in a barrell' AS levels like General Studies. I got an A in that with no revision, it looks good on your UCAS form.

I didn't like college much either, but it's only two years. You just need to plough on and forget about quiting, pretend it's not even an option. Think about this, do you want to be the guy that always gets an interview from his CV, or the guy who's CV hits the bin in most cases?

I realised this isn't what you want to hear, but it's the truth spoken from someone in the IT industry.

The bright side is that doing a degree will be the best 3 years of your life without a doubt.

[trekr5]

sorry nickynoodles

A degree is not necessary to work in software development...what is more important is a portfolio showing your body of work. In my experience, an employer wants to know " Can you do the job?". I have worked at Morgan Stanley in the city of London and seen people without degrees be extremely well paid software developers earning 150,000 pounds so degrees are not necessary. of course you would have to really know your stuff and work in extremely pressurised environments...if you can hack it, degrees are not necessary.

MyGuyUK

Just focus on what you want to do and work towards it.

[Bruce Achterberg]

Originally Posted by MrGuyUK

I'm hoping there's some people in the computing industry round here that can give me some detailed info and insight on something to do instead of college that is computing related. [...]

I suppose what I'm asking is: What are my other options besides college?

I'm not in the computing industry, but I thought I'd reference some information that you may find useful. If the info doesn't relate specifically to what you want to be doing, I wouldn't be too quick to discount it. Instead, look for universally applicable ideas and information that you can make use of. Absorb what is useful, and reject what doesn't serve you.

The information comes from an article on the website for ArenaNet, the game development company that created the highly successful Guild Wars PC game series (millions sold). To quote Wikipedia:

ArenaNet is a computer game developer and part of NCsoft Corporation, founded in 2000 by Mike O'Brien, Patrick Wyatt and Jeff Strain, former Blizzard Entertainment members that played important roles in developing the highly successful computer games Warcraft, StarCraft, Diablo, Diablo II, and the Battle.net gaming network. ArenaNet's offices are located in Bellevue, Washington.

By the way, I didn’t tell you the above info to impress you, but to give you an understanding of where the info I’m about to give you comes from and why you should pay any attention to it at all (ie. it’d be more trusting of advice coming directly from a successful company then I would some random guy on a forum who you’ve never met and know nothing about). Now, to quote the article:

How much training or education do you need to get a job as a software engineer or programmer [at ArenaNet]?

Our programmers/software engineers average four years of college, although some have more. Most majored in Computer Science in college. In the early days of the games industry, it was possible (although never easy) to get a foot in the door without a degree, if you were very skilled and could show your potential. But there is an increasing emphasis on having a college degree to get into the computer games industry these days, so few programmers or software engineers are able to enter the field until they have finished college.

That's just a small sample of the article -- I'd recommend reading through the whole thing, partially the information under the following headings:

• How difficult is it to get a job after completing college?
• What can I do to improve the chances of landing a job?
• What should I study, and how do I build a portfolio that will help me get into the games industry?

Again, the games industry may not be what you're interested in, but if I were you, I'd be open to any information that comes from people you have experience in any computing-related industry as it may help you break into the particular field you are interested in. At the very least, it will expand your knowledge and awareness, which is never a bad thing.

My personal advice would be to seek advice/information from multiple sources, including static resources (articles, books, etc.), dynamic resources (people). Also, be sure to draw from your own experience and wisdom by seeing if you can come up with your own ideas, doing some introspection, etc. At the very least, you’ll create some clarity, which is never a bad thing.

In terms of searching for information/advice (which is basically what you are doing here), expand your search pool and try to leverage multiple sources for information. The StevePavlina.com forums are a good start, but you're more likely to find people in the industry you're interested in at a forum or website that is more orientated to that particular topic (at least, that's what I think). Make a post in each industry-related forum you know of that is related to what you’re interested in doing and include the info from your posts here or simply link to your posts here. If you don’t know of any other forums related to what you are looking for, do a Google search and see what you can turn up. Hell, do a Google search anyway and see what you can turn up.

Don’t limit your search pool (and your potential results) by only looking for advice from people, either. As I said above, look for static resources such as articles, books, etc, etc. There is a wealth of free information available for those who are looking to break into the games industry, and I'm sure you'll find the same for whatever particular industry you are interested in.

If you really want to solve a problem, I personally find one of the best ways is to smother it in effort. Get as much information as you can, develop some new “tools” and methods to solve the problem, redefine the problem, look at it from different perspectives, journal about it, talk to people about it and ask them for ideas/advice and what they would do in your situation (even if they aren't in the industry you're interested in), etc. Attack the problem with as much force as you can muster, and you if you keep at it, eventually it will fold. If you think you're not getting anywhere despite your best efforts, smother the problem with more effort.

If you make that your rule, you'll either completely break the problem or create a solution out the amount of pure effort you've invested. Just be sure to spend more time focusing on possible solutions or things that can turn up solutions rather then just focusing on the problem and letting it get to you, and be open to random, unrelated opportunities that might pop up out of nowhere along the way as sometimes those leads yield lots of unexpected progress.

[nickynoodles]

Originally Posted by trekr5

A degree is not necessary to work in software development...what is more important is a portfolio showing your body of work.

Notice that I said "A degree is really important in IT", not necessary. When a CV lands on someone's desk, your 'body of work' only gets you so far. If there are 8 CVs all with pretty good work experience, but 1 of them doesn't show a degree, it's going to need something really special to make the CV favourable above the rest. (Obviously)

The example you give of working in investment banking is quite specific as experience really does count for a lot due to the complexity of the business. For more 'generic' development roles I'd say education *and* experience matter.

So, no you don't need a degree, but in my experiece of seeing people hire, not having one puts you at an automatic disadvantage in most cases.

FWIW, Most of the big IT firms, Accenture, Logica, Fujitsu etc. will only take graduates into their training programs.