Success University

[chrisvinky]

I was just wondering if anybody else was in Success University? I joined about a week ago and was blown away by the awesome training and tools available in my back office.

Learn from some of the greatest minds in the field of Personal Achievement...

Brian Tracy
Les Brown
Jay Abraham
Jeffery Combs
Robert Allen
Dr. Tony Allesandra
and more!

If anybody wants to take a 2 week test drive for a $2 donation to Feed the Children, see my link below!
Success University

[AndrewJ]

When I first signed up out of curiosity a while back you had to keep referring people or your income stopped. Not exactly residual income, more like residual work!
Not sure if it still works this way.

Andrew

[chrisvinky]

Actually for every 6 people in your downline you make around $40 per month every month.

6 = $40
60 = $400
600 = $4000
6000 = $40,000

And that is just on the residual. That's not including the Fast Start bonuses, where you can earn up to $10,000 per week!!

Maybe you are talking about sponsoring one per month to stay qualified? After sponsoring 6, you are qualified for life!!

I have 14 active members on my left side because of my awesome upline. That means that everybody that signs up with my link will go on my right side. I am going to put everyone in a single file straight down under each other. In other words, everybody I sign up will go in your downline. There is definitely an advantage to signing up early!!

Even without the residual income, I think that the content is worth the price!!

[Andrew Russell]

Is it just me or does this sound awfully like a pyramid or referral scam?

[Hugh Hollowell]

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing, but as my mom always said, "If you can't say anything nice..."

[chrisvinky]

Actually it's called Network Marketing and people such as Donald Trump and Robert Kiosaki recommend it as one of the best ways to start and build a business that pays residual income.

Network Marketing has been proven as a viable business opportunity through such companies as Avon, Mary Kay, Shaklee, Amway and many others.

With just a quick search on Google, I found this to better describe Network Marketing

What is a pyramid?
It is an organizational structure where the people at the top make more money than those beneath them. This describes every conventional company in existence! The problem with the conventional company is this: there exists a structure whereby the CEO generates income from the efforts of each person below, but those workers do not have the opportunity to earn as much as, or more than, the CEO.

Have you ever heard of a general worker [GW] who makes more than the CEO or the General Manager [GM]? Does middle management ever make more than the company's senior management does? Not typically! The old model just isn't fair for those underneath. No matter what their effort, they can never make more than those above them can. The pyramid is not equitable.

In Network Marketing however, you are building an income from the production of everyone in your organization whether you directly sponsored [a sponsor is one who recruits and trains another distributor.] them or not. Each person in your organization can do the same, so now you have created a situation where everyone has the same amount to gain. It's the fairest structure available because everyone can create exactly the same situation. And in fact, due to the nature of Network Marketing, people under you can and do in some cases, earn more than you simply because they can access levels that you cannot. Everyone can reach down into their organization the exact same number of levels. If someone has created more volume in their levels than you have in yours, and some of those levels are beyond your ability to reach them, that person can actually make more than you can, even though they are UNDER you!

This makes it the absolute FAIREST system available because it compensates people based on their contributions and efforts, not based on where they fall in the system. Once again, why should someone earn as much as you if they're not making the same effort that you are?

Take a look at this video, it describes Network Marketing the best that I have ever seen!!

Economic Power

I still am excited about the product that Success University has. The top 50 teachers and professionals in Personal Development all in one place downloaded when you want!!

Each to their own, but it just urks me when people call anything other that a 9 to 5 j.o.b(just over broke) a scam! Yes, there are many scams out there, including network marketing companies. Just like anything else, you have to be a informed consumer. But just calling a company that has been in business for 2 years and has helped thousands of people change their lives for the better a scam without looking at the facts is just wrong.

[marky]

yes, i have heard of it too.

ironcially, when i stumbled across this forum i found a link to someone's SU website and sent 2 messages a couple weeks ago to learn more, but havent heard back yet. then i followed his signature link again to make sure i filled out the form correctly, and sent another msg, but noticed it was now going to another person's SU website instead (i am assuming the first guy bailed on SU and didnt reply for that reason cuz he didnt kno who i was, etc). and now after almost a week the 2nd guy hasnt contacted me either...im assuming the first guy's leads are now being redirected to his sponsor (the 2nd guy). so im a little suspicious now.

since the first guy is a member of this forum and has some really sincere and insightful posts i am leaning toward skipping SU at this point (and trusting my instincts).

however...chrisvinky...u seem excited about SU, and i will be willing to talk to u to help me figure out what is happening.

thanks,

m.

[Hugh Hollowell]

It has occurred to you that neither Trump, nor Kiyosaki, nor Brian Tracy, nor Les Brown, nor Jay Abraham made their money with multi-level marketing, right?

[chrisvinky]

Absolutely, though it still does not negate the fact that they endorse it and recommend it. Oh yeah, I forgot I just read Secrets of the Millionaire Mind by T. Harv Ecker and he recommends network marketing also.

Would you rather spend $250,000 getting a bricks and mortar business started or be able to start a business with almost no money and the ability to earn unlimited income?

I think that is why Kiyosaki reccomends it - LEVERAGE!

[Robert Avila]

Chrisvinky...

You are very passionate about your business....that's the key!...you'll do awesome...

Now that you mention it...."Secrets of the Millionaire Mind"....I need to get my copy back from my buddy and his wife !!!!

Awesome book....he gets right to the point!

Good Luck!

Robert

[chrisvinky]

Thank you Robert. Indeed I am passionate about this. I think that this is a great way to show the masses the idea behind personal motivation and stretching to grow in all areas of life.

[haup9]

I hope you do well in your efforts with this. Having said that I would like to add that I am glad I read the entire thread before I clicked the link you provided in the first post. I may be out of line here but I must say that your first post is not very straight forward at all. I thought you were sharing a link to a site that you thought would be helpful to others (which I am sure you do think) but you never mentioned that you could profit from it. That just seems underhanded to me. Good luck and I again I hope you do well with this.


Mods - If this post is deemed inappropriate then please remove it and pm me to let me know. Thanks.

[chrisvinky]

I'm sorry you felt mislead. I was so passionate about the product that I did not mention the business opportunity. I felt like so many others just like myself might get something out of the training that they offer.

Yes, there is a financial reward for building this business for everybody who joins. I personally think that makes it an even better product!

[Andrew Russell]

Originally Posted by chrisvinky

With just a quick search on Google, I found this to better describe Network Marketing

I have to say - that is not a very good description you've posted. While a standard 9-5 job isn't necessarily "a good idea" - you can hardly go calling it a pyramid scheme.

It sounds kind of like "network marketing is not a pyramid scam because... uh... most company structures are like pyramids!"

Indeed, your description and presentation doesn't really say much about how it actually works - it's basically "Standard jobs suck... NETWORK MARKETING!!"

(And it is of note that there are plenty of other valid conclusions can be reached from "Standard jobs suck...")


Watching your presentation, a big red flag went up when it said "you do it without time, money or expertise". Without at least one of these (or something similar, like talent), there's no way you can generate value. As Steve says - to earn $1M, you need to generate at least $1M of value. This leads to one of three conclusions:

- You actually do need to invest time or money or expertise (they're lying)
- You actually don't receive any value (they're lying)
- You're taking (stealing?) value from someone else - at least more than they're providing in return (they're a pyramid scheme)

So at very best, the presentation you linked is being dishonest.



But, that's just the presentation. I've looked into your product and I have two problems. The first is simply that the product is not very appealing. For $50 a month I could buy a couple of books - and Steve and other websites have plenty of great information available for free.

The second issue, and this is the big one, is that there appears to be no way to simply buy the products themselves (not to mention they are all digital products with no tangible value). You must enroll in the program as a recruiter at the same time. This is one of the big "tell-tail" characteristics of a pyramid scheme (see wikipedia, which lists more that also apply). Indeed the big push seem to be recruiting, rather than selling - even though they are attempting to blur it with the bundling.


Are you still sure you've not signed up to (and have been promoting) a pyramid scheme?

[chrisvinky]

I will not try and beat a dead horse but will defend myself for the last time on this thread. If I knew it would have caused such a stink, I would never have posted.

The product can be bought for $50 a month and yes you do have the option of pursuing the business route with that purchase. You can leave at any time just like a customer.

Everybody has their own thoughts. I like the program and thought others may as well. Anybody can look at the program risk free for 2 weeks and if they like can cancel their membership in their backoffice. What more can you ask for?

You asked me to convince you and the forum that this is not a pyramid - I can't convince somebodies mind that is already made up.

[Steve Pavlina]

FWIW I've had a number of people try to convince me to sign up for Success University -- I guess I make a juicy prospect for someone's downline. But after perusing the site, I wasn't sure what to make of it. I never bothered signing up for it, since I already have stacks of PD products to evaluate, so more input isn't something I need right now.

About a year ago, ********************** had the highest Alexa ranking of any PD site on the web as far as I could tell. Last year StevePavlina.com passed it (it's hard to compete with FREE), and since May 2006 it appears their web traffic has been steadily declining. They're still getting a significant amount of traffic though, perhaps on par with a top 500 blog.

I also got a phone call from someone in SU's management a few months ago, but after playing phone tag a couple times, he gave up and never called me back again. I would have been happy to speak to him to get a better sense of their site/service, since I'm always on the lookout for things to recommend. I'm really, really picky about what I'll recommend though.

With the right product or service, MLM acts like an extended affiliate program. When the product or service is garbage or hugely overpriced, MLM devolves into more of a pyramid scheme. So far I haven't formed an opinion on SU because I've never tried it -- to adequately test such a service would probably take more time than I'm able to invest.

[Andrew Russell]

(Aside: An interesting thing I noticed with another look at the site, is that, of the 5 testimonials, 3 of them blatantly claim success in forming their own little pyramids under themselves.)

Originally Posted by chrisvinky

You asked me to convince you and the forum that this is not a pyramid - I can't convince somebodies mind that is already made up.

Nor, it seems, will I change your mind, as it is also already made up

I suspect the $2 joining donation is at least partly to prevent an armchair sceptic (unwilling to part with money or credit card details), such as myself, from gaining further information in order to debunk the site.

As someone already on the inside, perhaps you could have provided that information - either to debunk the site or debunk my debunking.

[samjbrowne]

Hi, I'm in a Network Marketing company, and so as not to muddy the waters as to my intentions, I won't tell you which one or try and get you to go to my page or something, but it's not Success University.

I'd start by saying that the very enthusiastic guy above has fallen into the trap that many face when they first start out in network marketing - very enthusiastic until people start asking questions, and then his answers are less than ideal. I've been there and done that, and 15 months into this unusual business, I may be able to explain things a little better.

Network Marketing and Pyramid Schemes appear very similar on the surface, but there are a few key differences:

Pyramid Schemes are illegal because there is no real product - there might be certificates or something but essentially, you buy in in order to receive cash from the next level below you.

Network marketing, on the other hand, supplies a product or group of products (often of a genuinely much higher quality than commercially available brands) to people who have bought into "the business". These people use the products themselves and can choose to be a retailer of the products to their friends, family and acquiantances. They may also invite these people to become "associates" in the company. If the person is "sponsored" into the company, the new associate then goes about building their own downline, as well as using the products themselves.

Each person below the original person essentially acts like a sales rep in the original person's company, with the original person getting a small percentage of any person below's spending, or the people that they have sponsored. So if A sponsors B, and B sponsors C, A will get a cut of what B spends AND what C spends. If B and C continue to sponsor people, A will get a cut of what they spend also. Typically, most companies will have systems in place where all members of the business will buy something each month to stay in the business, generating a large amount of revenue.

Another key difference is that many of the more successful network marketing companies are listed on the stock exchange as huge billion dollar businesses. You won't ever see a pyramid scheme on there...

Finally, there are always controls in place with network marketing where an individual must actually put in the work and time to get their business working well before they reap the rewards - in other words, it's never possible for a person to simply join a network marketing business and then sit back and watch the money roll in. There definitely is work involved and anyone who tells you there isn't is lying to you.

Personal Development is simply a HUGE part of network marketing as staying motivated is key to success. Put simply, I've grown more (indirectly) through my involvement with network marketing than I ever would have without it. As a matter of fact, I have recommended this site to many of the people in my organisation, and no doubt some of them will read this.

There are around 2500 network marketing businesses in the world right now, and many of them are a genuine way for ordinary people to create extraordinary wealth simply by applying themselves for 2 - 3 years minimum. I've seen kids as young as 23 earning $250,000 a year in true residual income, and people a little older than that earning close to $500,000, and that's just in NZ. In the US, there are people earning those figures monthly in network marketing.

If someone calls you to invite you to take a look at their business, don't be offended or annoyed. It's a compliment that they called you as not everyone has the social skills to do this, so be gracious and let them show you what they're doing. Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions and ask to see proof of the claims they make.

I've made lots of great friendships with genuine, incredible people in my time in network marketing, and although it takes a while to get your head around, it really is a business of people helping people. Check it out

[Andrew Russell]

samjbrowne: ah - now there's the good description I was after - thanks

Now, I'll still contend that Success University falls on the "pyramid" side, particularly because you cannot buy the product without signing up as a marketer. But I can see how other people might think otherwise.

[dgorila1]

[QUOTE=chrisvinky;39544]Actually it's called Network Marketing and people such as Donald Trump and Robert Kiosaki recommend it as one of the best ways to start and build a business that pays residual income.

Trump and Kiosaki....gee, they are both businessmen with no morals, serious lack of ethics, and overall just horrible role models for someone to follow unless they want to learn to be a "slimeball" business person.
Trump was the last speaker at a business seminar I attended several years ago. All of the other speakers were industry leaders and mentors such as Jack Welch and Suzi Orman. When Trump came on and started his speech, almost everyone got up and left by the half way mark. I lost all respect for the man, no matter how "successful" or rich he is. He made statements such as "...if someone does you wrong, do whatever it takes to ruin their personal and financial life forever..." , "...do whatever it takes to win in a deal (no matter how low you have to go).." and other totally assinine remarks. He is in no way a role model for someone who wants to be an honest, ethical business person!
As everyone else has mentioned, Kiosaki is great at selling "hype" and his programs, which is how he got rich along with real estate.

[samjbrowne]

Originally Posted by Andrew Russell

samjbrowne: ah - now there's the good description I was after - thanks

Now, I'll still contend that Success University falls on the "pyramid" side, particularly because you cannot buy the product without signing up as a marketer. But I can see how other people might think otherwise.

Sweet as (as we say in New Zealand)! You're welcome.

I would say it's not a pyramid as its not illegal and by all accounts its not an outright scam (a pyramid is really when the person at the very top makes a ton of money and everyone else gets nothing) but from the little I've read about Success University (I admit to knowing very little about it) it may not be as suitable for you as other companies who have been around a while and have strong ethical controls in place.

I suggest googling forums such as this when looking at a new network marketing business - I did this with the company I joined and was surprised at the very positive reports I read all over the place, including from people not affiliated with the company except as customers. That spoke volumes when it became apparent that companies carrying similar product lines were defending themselves regularly in lawsuits. So do your homework, the net makes it easy to get a feel for what the company is and the sort of people that are involved.

[AndrewJ]

I still don't think the payout or the payment model is that great considering the cost of membership.

Andrew

[digimint]

can you say where Trump and Kiyosaki said that about Network Marketing? Or is this just urban legend? Where were they when they said it and when did they say it, or is it just hearsay?

Originally Posted by chrisvinky

Actually it's called Network Marketing and people such as Donald Trump and Robert Kiosaki recommend it as one of the best ways to start and build a business that pays residual income.

Network Marketing has been proven as a viable business opportunity through such companies as Avon, Mary Kay, Shaklee, Amway and many others.

With just a quick search on Google, I found this to better describe Network Marketing



Take a look at this video, it describes Network Marketing the best that I have ever seen!!

Economic Power

I still am excited about the product that Success University has. The top 50 teachers and professionals in Personal Development all in one place downloaded when you want!!

Each to their own, but it just urks me when people call anything other that a 9 to 5 j.o.b(just over broke) a scam! Yes, there are many scams out there, including network marketing companies. Just like anything else, you have to be a informed consumer. But just calling a company that has been in business for 2 years and has helped thousands of people change their lives for the better a scam without looking at the facts is just wrong.

[The Probabilist]

Originally Posted by digimint

can you say where Trump and Kiyosaki said that about Network Marketing? Or is this just urban legend? Where were they when they said it and when did they say it, or is it just hearsay?

I don't know about Trump, but Kiyosaki mentions the benefits of network marketing in some of his books (can't remember which ones or where).

I view NWM as a growth phase. Either you stick with it because you succeed or then you grow out of it. But most often, those who have tried it, leave with more experience and more drive to do something similar like create their own system (found their own business), or just get more excited about personal development, goal achievement and wanting more out of life.

To me it was a natural chain of events (synchronicities) that lead me from one thing to the other. NWM -> Kiyosaki -> Pavlina -> Entrepreneurship, Investing, Blogging & PD.

The reason they endorse NWM is because you learn to experiment, test new things out, question what you should achieve and learn to develop yourself.