Need signposts, I'm lost

[Susanna77]

In two months I may finally ditch my business and start looking for a job. The thought of this makes me feel like I am moving backwards, but I do accept that this is what needs to be done (before I get further into financial trouble).

I found someone who may want to take over my business: do I ask for money for stock only or can I charge more based on the fact that the business is now established and there is a regular clientele (Ok even though not enough for profit - she knows that!). Also need to see if the landlord will accept a new tenant.

I feel like a ship lost at sea at the moment. Once I turn my back on what I currently have there isn't anything I feel I can love doing. I graduated in Tourism so chances are I will end up in a reception even though I have no training in hotel reception or even travel agent training. My course was more orientated towards social studies (applied to tourism).

Oh gosh. Any clues as to "what next" for me? Thanks in advance.

[Rae of Light]

Two months, is kind of soon to be ditching your business. Can you work and do business at the same time?

[James81]

Why are you ditching your business? How long has your business been around?

[iDreamCatcher]

I cannot advice you what to do but when I been in a similar situation (lost, depressed, not sure, confused) - I practiced and practicing Ho'oponopono cleaning.
This helps to resolve everything and clear up.

Gleb

[Susanna77]

sorry, I didn't explain properly. The business hasn't been giving me any profit for a long time. For the past year I even had to pay out of my pocket to keep it going...I keep hoping that things will improve, but it's not realistic. I've given myself December as a deadline and it's fast approaching, so it's time to face the facts and prepare the future (whatever it may be).

I am not given up too easily. I've tried everything I could. I've asked for advice on this site; put things into practice, etc. This is it...end of the line. I'm letting go. I have to surrender. Nothing else I can do.

[Susanna77]

Originally Posted by James81

Why are you ditching your business? How long has your business been around?

5 years.

[iDreamCatcher]

This is it...end of the line. I'm letting go. I have to surrender. Nothing else I can do.

When people do that - the greatest things happen.
Watch for synchronicities...

Gleb

[ssandra]

take it one day at the time.

Remember to mourn for your company, it is not nothing to loose your business, no matter what the reason. Give yourself some time to get over it.

Take a job, any job, to pay for your bills.

While in this job, catalog what you like and don´t like and take your time to find your perfect job.

Everything will be ok, even when now it might seem dark. It is always darkest before dawn....

[The Big D]

Have you solicited advice on the business itself? Perhaps it can be fixed, or you can do the same thing under another corporate identity and succeed the 2nd time around if this one has debts that require bankruptcy.

[Susanna77]

Originally Posted by iDreamCatcher

When people do that - the greatest things happen.
Watch for synchronicities...

Gleb

Thank you for mentioning synchronicities. This shop has been the stage of LOTS of synchs. Met AMAZING people, great friends, amazing stuff happened,etc. I'd do this for the rest of my life even if it just paid 400€ a month.

But I am hopeful, just a bit impatient to know what's next for me...

[Susanna77]

Originally Posted by The Big D

Have you solicited advice on the business itself? Perhaps it can be fixed, or you can do the same thing under another corporate identity and succeed the 2nd time around if this one has debts that require bankruptcy.

Until the recession is completly over there is no 2nd time round. My situation is identical to that of other friends' of mine who also have businesses. Either the recession needs to end or the prices we're charged to rent shops and offices need to come down. They're were never realistic prices, even before the recession, and they're certainly not now. However, landlords are not willing to negotiate. And in fair honesty my landlord charges me less than everybody else and has not put the rent up, but still it's a lot.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by Susanna77

Until the recession is completly over there is no 2nd time round. My situation is identical to that of other friends' of mine who also have businesses. Either the recession needs to end or the prices we're charged to rent shops and offices need to come down. They're were never realistic prices, even before the recession, and they're certainly not now. However, landlords are not willing to negotiate. And in fair honesty my landlord charges me less than everybody else and has not put the rent up, but still it's a lot.

Can he fill the space if you leave? The answer, at least for commercial space where I am right now, is probably "no". If that's the case, you have all the leverage and it's time to play hardball.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by The Big D

Can he fill the space if you leave? The answer, at least for commercial space where I am right now, is probably "no". If that's the case, you have all the leverage and it's time to play hardball.

That also depends on the type of lease contract. In my country one usually rents for a term of 5 years. If you stop after say 2 years, you still have to pay for the remaining 3 years...

Hardball may be an option though. Another one: discuss lowering the rent and paying him a percentage of turnover.

Were there times in the last five years that you made enough profit in your eyes? What do you sell BTW?

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

That also depends on the type of lease contract. In my country one usually rents for a term of 5 years. If you stop after say 2 years, you still have to pay for the remaining 3 years...

Hardball may be an option though. Another one: discuss lowering the rent and paying him a percentage of turnover.

The solution to this, at least under US law, is to threaten bankruptcy of the entity that signed the lease. Say "I have this 5 year lease. I cannot pay the last three, and I have here bankruptcy forms all filled out that I'm prepared to file after this meeting if we don't reach an agreement. I know if I vacate you won't be able to fill the space, because the guy down the street has two vacancies. Care to change my rent so I can pay it?" Of course you need to know what number you need your rent to be.

I imagine this same strategy works under European law too.

I hate it from an ethical standpoint when people freeroll on bankruptcy law like that, but it is a VERY effective strategy for restructuring leases and contracts.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by The Big D

...
I imagine this same strategy works under European law too.

I hate it from an ethical standpoint when people freeroll on bankruptcy law like that, but it is a VERY effective strategy for restructuring leases and contracts.

I'm not sure it's very effective. If I were the landlord I would be tempted to say: go ahead and file for bankruptcy. I hate being blackmailed and would rather eat the loss of the remaining term than let them get away with it.

Collaborating to get to a solution both parties can live with is better than playing win/lose games.

[James81]

Originally Posted by The Big D

I hate it from an ethical standpoint when people freeroll on bankruptcy law like that, but it is a VERY effective strategy for restructuring leases and contracts.

Until he calls your bluff. Most business men won't care about a bankruptcy like that, especially if they have nothing to lose from you except for a lease.

I know if someone rolled up in my offices threatening me trying to get me to change my prices, I'd tell them to go to hell and then pursue them with every bit of legal power I had for their rent.

However, if someone walks up to me and sits down at the table and says "Hey, I'm going through a rough space right now, is there anything we can do about the rent for a few months until I make it through?" I'm going to be far more apt to work with them.

But that's just me. I highly doubt your threat of bankruptcy will make much of a difference.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by James81

Until he calls your bluff. Most business men won't care about a bankruptcy like that, especially if they have nothing to lose from you except for a lease.

It's not a bluff. If you can't pay a lease you're contractually obligated to pay, you're bankrupt.

And it works all the time. I'd say the success rate is upwards of 90%.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

I'm not sure it's very effective. If I were the landlord I would be tempted to say: go ahead and file for bankruptcy. I hate being blackmailed and would rather eat the loss of the remaining term than let them get away with it.

Collaborating to get to a solution both parties can live with is better than playing win/lose games.

The success rate is VERY high if in fact there are no tenants available. The lender has a mortgage to pay more than likely.

The point is, it's a freeroll. if it doesn't work, you do what you would have done anyways: file.

[The Big D]

If you want to study the lay of the land ahead of time, liens on property are a matter of public record many places although detail vary (note: if you're in a non-US common law country the terminology "lien" may be different). If that's the case you can know he's got a mortgage before you go into the meeting.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by James81

I know if someone rolled up in my offices threatening me trying to get me to change my prices, I'd tell them to go to hell and then pursue them with every bit of legal power I had for their rent.

Oh, and BTW once they file the answer to how much power you have is precisely "none".

Another useful fact: a landlord typically cannot evict a bankrupt entity for non-payment until at least a reasonable amount of the bankruptcy proceeding has been completed. Check with a lawyer for details, but this is yet more leverage for the tenant, especially if the courts are slow in your jurisdiction.

[Susanna77]

Just to reply to the last posts regarding the rent.

My landlord is a fair man and I am the one who pays the smallest rent in the village. When I went to that shop he knew I was paying more in the shop I had before (a smaller one) and still charged me less when I'd have paid more.

I can't expect him to lower the rent to something that by comparison with what other businesses pay could be seen as ridiculous (by him).

Unfortunately he'll have no problem renting it out for the reason that he's the one that charges the least and the shop is very good. The lawyer next door to me will go in it and he already knows that (small place, everyone knows everybody).

Lawyer, accountants and doctors still doing very well in this economic climate it seems...

[The Big D]

It sounds like there's not much to be done on the rent front then.

My comments were mostly in response to previous posters and may be useful to someone with a slightly different situation.

[Susanna77]

Originally Posted by The Big D

It sounds like there's not much to be done on the rent front then.

My comments were mostly in response to previous posters and may be useful to someone with a slightly different situation.

No problem. I appreciate your input.

[spirit4711]

Do you see any possibilities at all, Susanna?

[James81]

Originally Posted by The Big D

It sounds like there's not much to be done on the rent front then.

My comments were mostly in response to previous posters and may be useful to someone with a slightly different situation.

Except they show that you have zero idea on how to deal with people. You kill a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. You don't threaten somebody with a bankruptcy unless you are seriously considering it because, well, if they call your bluff then you'll look like an idiot.

If however, you go in and be upfront about it and see what you can work out with him, you'll get a lot further along. And you could even hint around at bankruptcy (i.e. "I don't know what I'm going to do. I might have to file bankruptcy if I can't figure something out, but I don't want to do that unless I have to.") without coming across as some blackmailing *******.

[The Big D]

Originally Posted by James81

Except they show that you have zero idea on how to deal with people. You kill a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. You don't threaten somebody with a bankruptcy unless you are seriously considering it because, well, if they call your bluff then you'll look like an idiot..

I'm sick of people not bothering to read what I actually wrote. This is not an empty threat. It is what you do immediately before (and as a possible alternative to) filing. You should have bankruptcy paperwork in hand at the meeting, along with an explanation of the tenet's rights in bankruptcy (which the landlord may be unaware of).

The last one of these I saw, in a good rental market, cost the landlord 7 months of rent, none of which was recovered. The bankruptcy courts are now MUCH more jammed than they were then. The tenant in these situations has a very real and very big threat.

Never make an empty threat.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Susanna77

Thank you for mentioning synchronicities. This shop has been the stage of LOTS of synchs. Met AMAZING people, great friends, amazing stuff happened,etc. I'd do this for the rest of my life even if it just paid 400€ a month.

But I am hopeful, just a bit impatient to know what's next for me...

Susanna77, what are you willing to take on next? What is it about what you've been doing that inspires you so totally that you'd do it even if it didn't pay well -- in fact, what, specifically, is it about this business would you do even if you had to PAY to do it?

This whole "chances are I will end up in a reception" line of thought is not surrender; it's giving up (big difference!) Although your business didn't make a profit, that doesn't mean it is (or that you are) a failure -- you have been successful in finding something that lights you up. So what if this particular expression of that seed of inspiration didn't work out exactly as you would have preferred? That doesn't mean you have to throw out the inspiration entirely.

Whatever it is, that kernel of brilliant inspiration that had you keep going or five years, find it! And be flexible in trying new ways of expressing that special genius. That may involve getting a job, or it may mean something else -- I encourage you to be very flexible in your thinking, be creative in imagining how you might have your cake and eat it, too! The value you have to provide to the world may have been buried somewhat under other considerations of this business, but if there is something there that inspired you to keep going for five years, why not explore what that is, nurture it, and be the cause of generating wild, abundant value for the world and in your life? I know you to be a person who is up to that -- making a big, positive difference and scooping up limitless abundance.

[Susanna77]

Susanna77, what are you willing to take on next?

Office work, reception work, travel agent maybe...Not able to see past these few things at the moment. They feel like things I can endure.

What is it about what you've been doing that inspires you so totally that you'd do it even if it didn't pay well -- in fact, what, specifically, is it about this business would you do even if you had to PAY to do it?

The people I get to meet; the stories they tell (there can be laughter, there can be tears); the chats about books (I'm a bookseller); the friends I've made; how much I learned; how much I grew; there is no money in the world that pays how much I've received from having this business.

if there is something there that inspired you to keep going for five years, why not explore what that is, nurture it, and be the cause of generating wild, abundant value for the world and in your life? I

Wow. That would be amazing if I could find something that fulfilled me as much. So far, I've got nothing but very open to suggestions

[spirit4711]

Susannah, can you add a kind of coffee bar in addition to selling books?

[Susanna77]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Susannah, can you add a kind of coffee bar in addition to selling books?

No, unfortunately. But that has always been my dream.

Hey, can you imagine if I could find an already established coffee bar who would like to add a bookshop to it? hmmmm

Thanks for that. It got me thinking...