Job hunting: the most demeaning activity ever?

[Rabbit]

So I just graduated about 1.5 months ago from the University of Texas (Austin) with a BA in Economics and a minor in Business Administration, GPA 3.083, etc. Not terribly bad credentials to start with. I do have some interesting things on my resume from previous jobs and academic achievements (major research papers), but I never did any internships. All in all, I hear that my resume is good, and I'm fairly proficient in writing cover letters.

Now, I graduated with about $5000 in the bank to hold me until I found a job. I truly did not realize that it would be this difficult, this upsetting, this demeaning... and definitely not this long. Suffice to say, I've been unsuccessful.

Upon graduation I had the goal of trying to get a job (almost any job) in the Texas beer brewing industry - most preferably from a local micro/craft brewery or a brewpub. This is my passion. Long term goals include starting my own business; I originally wanted to open my own brewpub, but have changed slightly to running a nonprofit organization for Texas micro/craft brewery advocacy (and earning my living from donations and other fund-raising activities).

Unfortunately, either of those would take a bit longer than I can afford to set up and start earning an adequate living. Thus, I've been doing the whole 'job hunt' thing. And I must profess: it is absolutely soul-crushing. But more exposition first:

I am strongly independent and entrepreneurial personally, and I strongly identify with Steve's articles about why one should never 'get a job'. However, I have to do something in the short-run to support myself, and like I said, setting up my goals (aka 'dream jobs') would take a while longer than I have. And, they are risky to boot - there is no guarantee that I'll earn anything in the next few years, if at all.

Thus I job-hunt, looking for something suitable for a college-degree-holding individual that wants to earn a decent living doing something they can apply their skills at.

So you may be asking: just what have I found?
I've found that I must completely throw out *all* of the following:
Job/position/field of work preferences
Geographical location preferences
Notion that I could earn even barely enough to support myself
The idea that I would be a valued and respected member of society

The last one is what really irks me. I've read up reports (even some from here) and fully understand the logic of employers employing predatory tactics to instill fear of job security. And perhaps I had some notion of some sort of 'entitlement' - not necessarily that I'm some spoiled bratty graduate - I would argue the exact opposite. However, it's made very explicit all the way along the chain of primary education and then through college that a degree is invaluable and in most cases (especially Economics! come on!) will easily lead to many favorable job offers.

I hate, hate, hate the fact that I have stooped so low as to be willing to sell away a part of my life, to become a mindless drone to cruel and ignorant masters - and even STILL I can't find anything that will pay the bills in a month and a half.

Especially now, given the economy (ironic, given my degree), it's downright impossible to find anything. All those laid-off experienced workers are free and are in competition with ME, who has 'less to bring to the table' (technically speaking). All these ads I find - ALL OF THEM - require years of experience. How the **** do I get experience in the field if I can't even get a job to begin with? And even worse, I now find that there are predatory scam job postings - and I almost fell into that trap a few days ago.

In retrospect, I should have skipped college. I'd like to go return my diploma and get my money back, so that I could repay those loans that lock me in a cage of fear and anxiety since paying them off now seems nearly impossible.

I'm not looking for encouragement, not at all. I appreciate it, but I've heard enough of the "you'll find something eventually!" and "hang in there!" lines that people spew without thinking. I don't find that they are encouraging at all - the more time I spend on this incredulous hunt, the more I find that I am selling my soul... or perhaps that it's already been sold, and now I'm feebly trying to get it back (and in the most erroneous and misguided way).

What I am interested in hearing is if anybody else feels this way about job hunting. Although I acknowledge that most here are entrepreneurs, I imagine that there are at least a few here in the same situation - gotta get something short-term just to survive.

I have seriously considered faking my own death to evade my loans, scooping up all the cash I can, and making a break for Mexico. This 'life' that must be adapted to seems depressing and impossible, and I refuse to simply comply. Thus I believe I will go back and try to make my own way again, and I'll just have to work 100 hours a week to simply earn enough money (hopefully) for quite a while just to pay rent. I'll probably have to get some menial job, employ some freelance sales like I used to (eBay and craigslist), and simultaneously be planning the creation of my dream job, the nonprofit beer advocacy group...

I'm just overwhelmed with all of this nonsense. How dysfunctional of a society do we live in when a qualified and intelligent person is more likely to end up homeless than happy?

/end rant

[Beuford]

Step 1: Calm down.
Step 2: Start low, climb the ladder.

[Rabbit]

What if there is no ladder to climb?

What if the bottom of the ladder means working as a minimum wage cashier?

[Beuford]

Okay well how about you do an internship.

[Rockchick26]

I feel your pain!! I've been laid off for 7 months and haven't been able to find anything. All I have is 18 years experience working in a factory, and those are the biggest downsizers so they're certainly not hiring. I have NO experience in retail, customer service, waitressing, working in an office, I can't lift 50 pounds, and I have no college degrees either. I've considered selling everything I own and buying a camper and living in the woods to avoid having bills. I totally get what you're saying. You can't even get ahead starting at the bottom because working minimum wage you can barely make enough for rent, let alone saving anything for starting up a business. And with your school loans you don't want to add a business loan on top of those. I don't have an answer, I just wanted to say I can understand! When my unemployment money runs out, I don't know what I'm going to do if I don't have a job by then. I hope for the best for both of us!

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Beuford

Okay well how about you do an internship.

You can only do those if you are in college (I've checked). And even if you do that, you aren't guaranteed to get paid, and even if you do, it won't be enough to live off.

[Beuford]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

You can only do those if you are in college (I've checked). And even if you do that, you aren't guaranteed to get paid, and even if you do, it won't be enough to live off.

Isn't an internship just where you offer to work for free for a while, like 2 weeks? Then you can say you have training on the job.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Beuford

Isn't an internship just where you offer to work for free for a while, like 2 weeks? Then you can say you have training on the job.

Not exactly. You "work" for free to earn credits for college, it goes for the whole time you're in school, and most likely you will end up staying there after you graduate (and then you become a full time employee) or you can go work somewhereelse in the same field.

[Beuford]

So, how about something like an internship, but independant of college?

[Rabbit]

Awesome, thanks for all the replies so quickly!
And I am glad to hear that I am not going insane, that there are others out there that are FED UP with this ridiculous situation.

Internships do exist outside of the realm of college - although, for the overwhelming most part, they are for college students or college graduates. Some are paid... most are not. And they last for several months.

They can be pretty good to have on your resume if you don't get hired by the company that worked you for free/cheap. And in some cases, they can be the golden ticket for getting a job at the firm that lets you intern there.

However, internships are not a valid option in and of themselves. They are mostly unpaid, or they are paid only slightly better than minimum wage. You'd still need another source of income if you wanted to survive.

[Beuford]

Live with room mates maybe. If you have friends or relatives you wouldn't mind sharing a house or appartment with, you can lower the cost of living which will help a bit. That's the only other thing I could suggest.

[ssandra]

I would also suggest to not let the add and what they are looking for stop you.

I worked in recruitment, and usually if you have a good enough story and you seem confident enough, at least I would give people a chance in a phone interview even if they didn´t have enough experience.

Also... try some different approaches.

What companies like, especially in a yougn starter, is somebody who is driven and knows what he wants.

Don´t sent in your application and wait and pray for an answer.

Go to the company, see if you can speak to the hiring manager there (even if they do not have openings at the moment), and give your application and cover letter.

Make sure you know what to say before hand.

If you cannot speak to the hiring manager directly, try and talk to his/her receptionist. Tread them like they are the most importan persons in the company, which they are, because they will give their impressions the the hiring manager.

Good luck!

[ChaosKiwi]

Rabbit Job hunting sucks! I should know, I have been searching for some time.

I have no advice I can really share. Only that you have to live the best life you can under the circumstances.

Its hard. But I have hope.

-ChaosKiwi

[moonrambler]

Rabbit, I was wondering since you are interested in the brewing industry, if you've considered working as a bartender to get cash while you're manifesting your dreams.

[Rabbit]

I've been looking to get a job anywhere along the three-tier system (producer/brewer, distributor, retailer). Bartending didn't really come into my focus, as the majority of bartending jobs are more mixed drinks and less about beer (furthermore: 90% of the beer sold in Texas bars, via bottle or draft, are 'macrobrewer' beers... I have a general distaste for that).

That being said, unfortunately most of the jobs in any of the three fields are either minimum wage or barely above (and insufficient) or are managerial and require years of experience.

I'm essentially shut out. I'm doing my best to cold-call and meet with the local brewery owners - and luckily my work for the volunteer group (Texas Microbrewery Advocates) is a great networking tool to meet with these owners. All the same, they are small crews and they already generally have their staff.

[Angela]

Rabbit, I'm not surprised you're having trouble getting hired -- your attitude about having a job stinks!

I hate, hate, hate the fact that I have stooped so low as to be willing to sell away a part of my life, to become a mindless drone to cruel and ignorant masters - and even STILL I can't find anything that will pay the bills in a month and a half.

If someone came to me looking for a job with that attitude (and you don't have to verbalize it -- they can FEEL it) that would be the very last person I would want to hire. I'd rather hire the less competent person, or the person with no degree, than have such a toxic person on my staff. A month and a half of looking -- please. We've got the highest unemployment rate since the great depression, and there are many, many, many people out there who are just as qualified as you are, but with a heck of a lot better attitude about being employed.

That's a good thing! You've got very strong away-from motivation, keeping you from what you KNOW you don't want. With your strong entrepreneurial skills, you can start a very small business, build it to success, and prove what a great manager and entrepreneur you are. You've got $5,000 -- that's plenty for a bright person to start a micro business -- and you've got very strong incentive to succeed (failure means being a mindless drone to cruel and ignorant masters). Plenty of people have done it -- find one and model him/her.

Or, use your entrepreneurial good sense to build a good Me.com brand and change your stinkin' thinkin' about being employed, long enough to get your bills paid.

You've got all the opportunity in the world!

To be truly challenging, a voyage, like a life, must rest on a firm foundation of financial unrest. Otherwise, you are doomed to a routine traverse, the kind known to yachtsmen who play with their boats at sea... cruising, it is called. Voyaging belongs to seamen, and to the wanderers of the world who cannot, or will not, fit in. If you are contemplating a voyage and you have the means, abandon the venture until your fortunes change. Only then will you know what the sea is all about. I've always wanted to sail to the south seas, but I can't afford it." What these men can't afford is not to go. They are enmeshed in the cancerous discipline of security. And in the worship of security we fling our lives beneath the wheels of routine - and before we know it our lives are gone. What does a man need - really need? A few pounds of food each day, heat and shelter, six feet to lie down in - and some form of working activity that will yield a sense of accomplishment. That's all - in the material sense, and we know it. But we are brainwashed by our economic system until we end up in a tomb beneath a pyramid of time payments, mortgages, preposterous gadgetry, playthings that divert our attention for the sheer idiocy of the charade. The years thunder by, the dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed. Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

[Rabbit]

You do bring up a good point, Angela .

I would say that I really didn't have that attitude until yesterday, when I decided I'd had enough of this. Beforehand, I was optimistic and perhaps charming, but even still- not really overly excited about getting a 'job'. And how excited about that could one person be?

I've only got about $2000 left now. Enough for about 1.5 months of living expenses or so... not really sure if I'll be able to use that (see also: gamble that) into a microbusiness.

But one thing is for sure, I've got to pick up some of my old gigs and bring in some money... this whole ordeal is just upsetting though. And I'm not sure which is worse- the feeling of utter abandon from the job search, or knowing that I'd become dependent on the idea of 'getting a job' against my own true desires.


I love the end quote, by the way. I think I'll print it out and stick it on my wall.

[Angela]

Well, all jobs are temp jobs. Can you inspire yourself to take on a job for the purpose of learning some specific aspect of what you'd like to ultimately do? Think of yourself as a contractor, even if you're on someone's payroll, and use that contract not just to earn money, but to really build your internal resources. Maybe that would entail making less money that you'd ideally like, in exchange for a really tremendous opportunity to learn.

If I were in your shoes, I'd consider pulling a Seth Godin -- that is, offering your services for free for two weeks or a month to a brewery whose methods you'd like to master, with the understanding that you'd be proving what an awesome asset you'd be to the company. Think of yourself as the owner's Sir Lancelot, and take on every tiny aspect, even the most demeaning, with the joy of knowing that you are only adding to your bank of knowledge and skill. Be better, contribution-wise, and attitude-wise, than anyone they're likely to encounter, and be the sort of employee that the owners will BEG to stay when you're ready to start your own concern. Stay a year, pay off your bills, and go start your business! (Don't get any credit cards, pets, or spouses during that year. )

[Curtis2011]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

What if there is no ladder to climb?

What if the bottom of the ladder means working as a minimum wage cashier?

Umm... so?



As Gandhi said, "There is enough in this world to fill every man's need. There is not enough to fill even one man's greed."

What do you really NEED?

1. Food.
2. Water.
3. A place to live.

Happiness comes from within. I suspect that if you surrender your pride and selfish desires, you will find more opportunities come to you anyways.

[Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Curtis2011

What do you really NEED?

1. Food.
2. Water.
3. A place to live.

Happiness comes from within. I suspect that if you surrender your pride and selfish desires, you will find more opportunities come to you anyways.

I appreciate the advice, but I would amend a fourth need to that:
4. Repayment of student loans

I don't think you are factoring in how much suck that is (respectfully speaking). It's a large amount of student debt, and it's a good chunk of change each month.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

I don't think many of you realize how much suck that is (respectfully speaking). It's a large amount of student debt, and it's a good chunk of change each month.

Do you not have the option of postponing repayment? You might want to use your negotiating skills with your lender.

[Rabbit]

2/3 of my debt is covered federally, and I don't have to start repayment until 6 months after graduation (luckily) - but when that kicks in, it'll be a lot.

The other 1/3 is a private loan and the terms are relatively rigid - I am only paying the accrued interest each month, with full repayment beginning 6 months after graduation too.

So in February, I can expect to start having to pay somewhere around $200 (in the very least) per month from student loans.

[Rabbit]

To be honest, right now I'm thinking of beginning to sell of much of my stuff (especially things I don't really value much, like a nice guitar I got as a birthday gift a decade ago), although that is unfortunate. Maybe my car as well, and then buy a scooter or simply use the metro to get around. That will at least extend my viability a little while.

Also, technically I could load up my credit card. I've got about a $4200 limit. I'm sure most of you here pucker up real tight at the thought of that - but I'd rather pay $20 a month and accrue 20% interest if it means I can buy myself time and get my feet on the ground with something solid, and with something I want to do...

[Strangemagik]

Seek out internships. At the least you will gain some experience. But remember its a tough economy out there right now for ANY job markets.


Do NOT go with the credit card. TRUST ME!!! You will regret that more than anything. Keep your credit good because well honestly you never know what will happen.

AND if you haven't already consider seeking deferments on your student loans. It usually takes a simple phone call and form to hold off payments. If you just graduated you should have 6 months anyway? Do you not? Mine have been in deferment since last Nov. I'm unemployed right now too. I had a temp job but its done and I'm looking so probably will have to see about a longer deferment. UGH

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Rabbit

Also, technically I could load up my credit card. I've got about a $4200 limit. I'm sure most of you here pucker up real tight at the thought of that - but I'd rather pay $20 a month and accrue 20% interest if it means I can buy myself time and get my feet on the ground with something solid, and with something I want to do...

Don't even think about this for one single second. Believe me. They make it way too easy and eventually the credit card debt makes everything much more difficult than you ever imagined.

I have no idea what the bar scene is like in Texas, but I just thought of what it's like here, and if a person was interested in microbrews and needed regular cash, bartending would be a good way to go. But then again, this is a state with a LOT of pubs and a big history of beer-drinking, and bars focusing on beer, including microbrews, are not uncommon. Plus hours are very flexible. One of my friends tends bar, and on a weekend night he can make between $50 and $100 in tips alone. And he finds it fun. And it gives him time to focus on his other goals in life.

[MetaFitX]

I wish I could give you some great advice, except that I graduated from college this May....and I'm still looking.

I won't lie it is brutal out there right now. The way I look at it is that I simply have to work harder. Being pessimistic is not doing you any real favors anyways.

[ABdude]

For what its worth, I am in the same boat as you are. I got laid off from my job a couple of months ago and ended up going to school to get my commercial driver's license (Class 1), only to find all the driving jobs disappearing, and the carriers that are hiring require at least two years experience.

My main goal right now is to find an entry level position either as a driver, or in my alternate field, IT. I am currently trying to keep myself busy by volunteering at a homeless shelter, and in a few weeks I will be going to an employment assistance center (both as a user and volunteer). I have absolutely no qualms about starting at the bottom, as long as I can see my way to the top.

[lifetimelearner]

I am sorry to hear about your troubles-it is very tough out there right now !!

my friends husband is a biochemist and he brews his own beer
he even had a tough time finding a job
they had to move to another state just so he could find employment

is moving an option ?

[Rabbit]

Hey again,

I suppose that bartending might be worth looking into... there are several bartending schools that get you 'graduated' in generally 2 weeks (1 week if you are bold), and the TABC certification is cheap. I'm not sure how much those schools cost but probably not terribly much...

The only thing is I'd be more interested in tending bar at a brewpub or a beer joint. There are a couple around here in Austin but I don't know how much you really need to know (e.g. if you must go to mixology school) to tend bar there...

It does sound relatively interesting - leagues more interesting than settling for some obscure paper pushing menial job for an insurance company around here (I think I would bore myself to death in such a situation).


As for moving - it is, I suppose, but I really don't want to at all. There are a few places I'd love to live but even still, I'd mostly prefer to stay right here in Austin, Tx. That being said, Austin also has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country (as a major metropolitan area), in addition to generally good quality of life and relatively good cost of living expenses. Plus, it's just home to me.

All the same, if I had to, yes I'd travel. Just hoping that I'm not forced to - as I feel that if I were to take a job elsewhere, I'd probably feel 'stuck' there and tied to the job (unless it was a truly fun job)... I'd rather live on the streets here than be in that situation .


And all of you are right, I have developed a rather rotten attitude about it. And it certainly isn't doing me any favors as far as getting a job... Until the post, I don't think I really was in that mindset; I simply 'snapped' and thus I wrote out the post, realizing the futility of all my efforts recently.


Perhaps this is for the best; some kind of cosmic force is pushing me towards real success and preventing me from falling into a trap. It's a time for many tough decisions and for lots and lots of hard work. Feeling overwhelmed would be an understatement.

It's a shame it's hitting like this all at once (and not just for myself). I certainly could have been a bit more proactive about this transition earlier, but even still, I feel like the environment and my education didn't even come close to preparing me for this.

But then again, the only way I learn the big lessons in life are from the hardest of hard ways... so again, maybe this is a good thing.
I've been really re-hashing how I could do my own thing again and thinking about the chances of making it via that route. Even with tending bar on the side for stability. It's just still an unconfirmed route .

[lifetimelearner]

I can understand the rotten mood
I have dipped there recently

I have a good paying job but I hate it !

and I can understand not wanting to move esp when you like your city


I really hope things work out for you !