Job hunting: the most demeaning activity ever?

[runningbird]

Volunteering is an excellent networking strategy.

[Lauxa]

I second the bartending suggestion. I knew a guy here in Austin who was able to rent a house and support a non-working wife and kid on a bartending salary. Also, you would meet TONS of people, and since it's an evening gig you'd be free for a second job such as internship or volunteer work during the day. I think you need a certificate.

[Lioness]

Originally Posted by runningbird

Volunteering is an excellent networking strategy.

So is working, and I believe you can get a job you won't hate if you explore all possibilities!

A federal treasury is located in Austin as is, I believe, a major IRS center. If you majored in economics, you can use your degree while you continue to persue the microbrew thing in your spare time. Check USAJobs on a regular basis, and it can't hurt to drop by the HR of these agencies and see if anything is available. Sometimes, you can happen to run into the very person who knows something in your field will be opening up and you can make a good impression in person.

I work an office 9 to 5 and believe me the young college grads have a blast, get paid, learn a lot, and some leave for bigger and better things. In the meantime, you can meet and impress people at higher levels who can possibly be 6-degrees of separation or less from your dream career.

This is the free-est time of your life, don't rule out a job in a nearby suburb, or even farther. You can always come back to Austin if you love it so much, but you may never have another chance to pick up and go to a new city for an opportunity, so don't rule it out. Also, Austin has a burgeoning film industry and lots of arty enterprises going on. Anything could be a springboard to what you really want to do, so keep surfing the internet and utilize your university's placement department also.

As for what to tell your friends, how about "I've got a few leads. I'll let you know if anything pans-out." then change the subject. If they want details just say you don't want to jinx your luck and immediately start talking sports.

[ar81]

Originally Posted by runningbird

Volunteering is an excellent networking strategy.

And an excellent way to gain mental health.

Originally Posted by Love

-ar81, because your post was really calming

Having inner peace helps a lot to increase chances of success when looking for a job.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by firesign

It isn't a fact that you can't get hired from a volunteer job. Moonrambler wasn't arguing with your experience but with your generalization.

Well I guess I was thinking more along the lines of volunteering without an internship. I mean if you're just volunteering that is probably because they AREN'T hiring. But of course yeah there are always exceptions.

[ar81]

BBC NEWS | Business | Youth unemployment: Your stories
You are not alone. Others are having the same problem.
This problem used to be usual in third world or semi-developed countries.
Why is that people do not have jobs?
It is an adjustment in the job market.

Poverty was exported, and that makes poor workers more attractive than expensive ones. In many cases poverty does not relate with lack of education but macroeconomical policy, so there are plenty of qualified and cheap workers in those countries.

This is a good reason to fight world poverty.
Jobs flee overseas when there is poverty elsewhere.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

But it IS a fact, I volunteered there and not only did they not pay me or hire me but they quit using me. They were bringing on more qualified people to "help" me, and the next thing I knew they quit calling me. How is that not a fact, what happened?

It's a fact that RockChick volunteered at a place that did not hire her. But when she announces to the world, "You can volunteer at places, which I did for a few months, but you won't get a job there just from doing that," that is not a fact. That is speculation, and very negative speculation as well.

[moonrambler]

Originally Posted by firesign

It isn't a fact that you can't get hired from a volunteer job. Moonrambler wasn't arguing with your experience but with your generalization.

Exactly.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

But it IS a fact, I volunteered there and not only did they not pay me or hire me but they quit using me. They were bringing on more qualified people to "help" me, and the next thing I knew they quit calling me. How is that not a fact, what happened?

Was this the recording studio? If so, that's a pretty succinct example of how NOT to get hired out of a volunteer position, and totally on topic with the OP.

The whole idea of volunteering with an intention to get hired into a paid position is to give the employer a "free sample" of how productive, efficient, generous, and bright you are, along with a demonstration of your great attitude -- showing them that basically they can't afford NOT to keep you on.

If you are harboring resentments, like how things *shouldn't* be the way they are, or the people you're working with are *supposed to* be friendly or encouraging to you or make you feel comfortable and welcome, or they *owe* you something else, you are demonstrating an attitude that any employer can easily do without. Especially in this job climate, when there are plenty of enthusiastic, qualified Mary Poppins-people who are a lot better-feeling to have around.

Whether you're looking for a paid job or trying to turn an internship/volunteer position into a paid one, it's really a good idea to get good at helping people feel good having you around, in addition to being really good at what you do.

[lifetimelearner]

so how is it going rabbit ?

[John Tedder]

Rabbit, I have a couple of suggestions. Contact the University of Texas and find out how they can help you. Every college has some group or department that will help their alumni find a job.

You must have made some friends at college. Contact everyone you know from college and let them know that you are still looking for a job. Tell them what you want and be as specific as possible. Find out what they are doing. Perhaps they will recommend you to someone where they work. Ask them to ask their friends to help you.

Go to some of your professors at college and ask them for help.

You have a BA in Economics. What else did you learn at college that you could use to get a job?

Do your college friends know that you really want to own a brew pub? You have to let people know. Good luck.

I wrote a blog post last year called, "Tell People What You Want."

[cnwoods]

I was in the same boat as you, just in a different country. I ended up signing up with temp agencies and letting them find me short term jobs, but then I wasn't considered for permanent ones because of my "unstable job history" (I'd also paid my way through college with casual & temp work). I also lived in a regional area with higher than usual unemployment. I got sick of being told I was overqualified for positions, or underexperienced. One interviewer told me I was 'too intelligent' - I went home and wondered how many brain cells I'd have to kill to find work.

In the end I did survive. I don't know how many people starve over there, but if you look around locally there are bound to be charities and/or government agencies that can help you out short term, or renegotiate your loan situation. The main job hunting lessons I learnt, though, that I'll share with you here:

• Jobhunting is a numbers game. For every 100 applications you put in, you might get 10 interviews, and 1 offer. Keep going. I used a software tool called 'Resume Maker Deluxe'
• The jobs go to the people who appear as though they least need it. We want what we think we can't have, in preference to what someone's trying to push on us. Employers are no exception. If you appear needy, you can guarantee you won't get the offer.
• You'll only get offers based on what you believe you're worth. If there's a disconnect between what you believe your value level is, and what's on offer, you won't get through
• The clearer the picture you have of what you want, the quicker you'll get it. Not "I'll settle for..." - there's no attachment or commitment to something like that. Work out your dream assignment and start chasing those companies, whether they have something on offer or not. Brush up your negotiating skills and be persistent. It may not end in a paid job, but even if it gets you that work experience you're a step closer than you were.

[Tara680]

Rabbit,

I have a couple of suggestions for you.

You want to start your own brewery or nonprofit organization without tapping into your savings? You can do that.
Write a business plan. Plan out a marketing strategy. Write down your strengths and weaknesses, then look for an Angel Investor. Go to SCORE, it is an organization of former CEOs and the like who will sit down with you and help you with your ideas, for free.

Or you could start a small home brew operation for like $100. Just get it going, and then take your product to friends and taste sampling shows and see if people are generally interested in it. If so, you can expand and start selling your beer and then worry about getting your liquor license, etc.

I think it was on one of Steve's articles where he noted how many of us secretly admire the insane homeless guy on the street shouting obscenities, because he is probably more happy than most people caught in the "rat race". And I believe that is true. I do not ever see myself working for someone else ever again, or if I did, it would have to be for a LOT of money. I would be happier making $40,000 myself than $100,000 working for someone else, that is sure.

Life is what you make of it. Dont ever give up on your dreams. Try and fail. Who cares, at least you tried. Now get back up and try something else. You only get one life. Go after what you want.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

Was this the recording studio? If so, that's a pretty succinct example of how NOT to get hired out of a volunteer position, and totally on topic with the OP.

The whole idea of volunteering with an intention to get hired into a paid position is to give the employer a "free sample" of how productive, efficient, generous, and bright you are, along with a demonstration of your great attitude -- showing them that basically they can't afford NOT to keep you on.

If you are harboring resentments, like how things *shouldn't* be the way they are, or the people you're working with are *supposed to* be friendly or encouraging to you or make you feel comfortable and welcome, or they *owe* you something else, you are demonstrating an attitude that any employer can easily do without. Especially in this job climate, when there are plenty of enthusiastic, qualified Mary Poppins-people who are a lot better-feeling to have around.

Whether you're looking for a paid job or trying to turn an internship/volunteer position into a paid one, it's really a good idea to get good at helping people feel good having you around, in addition to being really good at what you do.

Yes, i'm talking about the recording studio. And about the rest of that, maybe I wasn't an ideal candidate for that position/career but I can't change how I am, so I can't help that it didnt work out. It is never good to be anything other than yourself, so if it was my fault it didn't work out, so be it. It wasn't for me then.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

... but I can't change how I am

I think 99% of the people here would disagree with this statement.

You CAN change who you are and how you are. You just have to want it.

99% of the people here are actively busy changing themselves, of which at least half has succeeded. I am one of them...

If you don´t like who you are, if it is not working for you, you CAN change yourself.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

I can't change how I am, so I can't help that it didnt work out.

Yes. That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about is how NOT to get hired, or really to be successful in any area of life.

I think it's pretty common, too: "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam." The Popeye Syndrome. If you've got a limiting decision about your ability to change or try something new, it really doesn't matter how much spinach you eat -- you'll still be a 98 pound weakling, with sand getting kicked in your face.

Maybe that's the Charles Atlas Syndrome.

[moonrambler]

As Wayne Dyer has said, if you want to do something you've never done before, you have to become someone you've never been before.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by moonrambler

As Wayne Dyer has said, if you want to do something you've never done before, you have to become someone you've never been before.

I love that!

[Rae of Light]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Wow! Thanks for sharing your story! I will try that...I imagine it will be hard though. How did you deal with people asking you all the time if you found a job yet, or where are you applying? I feel like that is my biggest hurdle is dealing with everyone around me and their questions and advice.

Most people who asked were asking out of guinuine concern. I answered them and weeded through their advice. Some gave good advice others gave horrible advice for example "go to nursing school" If people ask you how the search is going be honest and optimistic. You never know who can give u the advice u need...

[Pegasus]

I totally feel for anyone searching for a job. After I completed "career training" school, most advertised positions that I found required 5 years experience. I spent over a year and half doing temp jobs (before the economy tanked) and finally obtained stable enough employment. I ended up not pursuing what I trained for, which has left me with a load of debt to deal with -- later on I had to make some major financial changes. I know that today's job searchers face greater difficulties.

My advice? Keep a gratitude journal. Each day write down between 10 and 15 things you are grateful for. Also check out any books or audiobooks by Brian Tracy -- an attitude tune-up helps tremendously. When you focus on good things, Opportunity's doors tend to open up.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by ssandra

I think 99% of the people here would disagree with this statement.

You CAN change who you are and how you are. You just have to want it.

99% of the people here are actively busy changing themselves, of which at least half has succeeded. I am one of them...

If you don´t like who you are, if it is not working for you, you CAN change yourself.

Well I've tried to change, spent probably hundreds of dollars on different books, natural remedies, what have you...if change is possible (for me) it couldn't have happened within the 2-month period where I needed it to change. But I don't want to hijack this thread into discussing that issue.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yes. That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about is how NOT to get hired, or really to be successful in any area of life.

I think it's pretty common, too: "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam." The Popeye Syndrome. If you've got a limiting decision about your ability to change or try something new, it really doesn't matter how much spinach you eat -- you'll still be a 98 pound weakling, with sand getting kicked in your face.

Maybe that's the Charles Atlas Syndrome.

Ugh I know we've gone through this before in other threads so i'm just repeating myself here, but i'm pretty sure it was a few certain personality traits that they didn't like about me, probably that I was too meek/shy/timid for the music business. You have to be an agressive outgoing take charge kinda person, which i am not, no matter how hard I tried to be. I know others have said it can be done, but I've never heard of or seen anyone changing their personality that drastically without the use of drugs or alcohol.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Ugh I know we've gone through this before in other threads so i'm just repeating myself here, but i'm pretty sure it was a few certain personality traits that they didn't like about me, probably that I was too meek/shy/timid for the music business. You have to be an agressive outgoing take charge kinda person, which i am not, no matter how hard I tried to be. I know others have said it can be done, but I've never heard of or seen anyone changing their personality that drastically without the use of drugs or alcohol.

1. People do it all the time. Look at all the geeks and nerds who become confident with women due to getting involved in the relationship/PUA community. Look at everyone who joins Toastmasters.

2. You didn't try hard at all. Tell me which of these three things you have done to become a more assertive and outgoing person. If you haven't done any of them, then you *wished*, you didn't *try*:

a. Approached 5 new people every day and introduced yourself.
b. Joined a Toastmasters club and made speeches at every meeting.
c. Asked 3 people out on a date each week.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

I know others have said it can be done, but I've never heard of or seen anyone changing their personality that drastically without the use of drugs or alcohol.

I've personally witnessed transformations such as the one you're talking about (painfully shy to social confidence) hundreds of times -- probably closer to a thousand.

I myself used to be the shyest person in the world (I thought), and I can't even find a trace of shyness in me anymore -- I can barely remember what shy feels like.

There is one action I've noticed every single person I've seen who has made such a bold change transformation take: moving to a perspective of being at cause in their lives.

[John Tedder]

Rabbit,

Have your ever read "You'll See It When You Believe It, The Way To Your Personal Transformation" by Wayne Dyer? I picked it up one day because I remembered Wayne Dyer as being the author of "Your Erroneous Zones."

The difference between the two books is an amazing example of transformation. He seemed to be a completely different person in the later book. His life story is pretty amazing. The first chapter is titled "Transformation."

Reading "You'll See It When You Believe It" changed my life, career and financial situation.

I wrote a blog post about it called, you guessed it, "You'll See It When You Believe It."

[Alfonso Crawford]

Originally Posted by runningbird

Volunteering is an excellent networking strategy.

And a great source for free food, if you play it right. I've even shifted my attention toward "work for food"-jobs like volunteering at churches and shelters, etc.

[Strangemagik]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

I totally get what you're saying. You can't even get ahead starting at the bottom because working minimum wage you can barely make enough for rent, let alone saving anything for starting up a business.

Exactly why the poor stay poor and the rich get richer. Speaking on welfare alone how can you EVER get out if you aren't aloud to have a savings and gosh darn it if you have a car payment to actually GO WORK, if you can find a job, they won't count that out of your bills for assistance and yet again you are poor until you lose your job and go back only to start a vicious loop. I've been in that barely able to pay rent and food can't save and gosh darn you work your arse off paying taxes and to get a little help with food you go to all the embarrassment and trouble to apply to be told you made $30 too much, sorry come back when you have less income or more kids.


Its hard times right now. I think of even the ball parks announcing ticket sales are down. Can you imagine if they go more what those players will complain about when their contracts start dropping by the millions. I say overpaid already but I'm no sports fan.

Just gotta say I have my degree and struggling with same darn things. Not enough experience and now I can't even get min wage job because I'm too educated or something. Its the most demeaning and horrible experience ever to be job hunting especially having a degree.

As far as loans is it possible to do like I have and defer them? I got mine done for a whole year because I was working part time. Now with no job at all I will have to see about further deferral.

[Strangemagik]

From an existencial point of view, unemployment is a time when life takes you out of the world, to a monastery of solitude where you much find inner peace. Without inner peace you will hardly find a job. When you have inner peace, a spiritual vision of life, all the uncertanties will fade, and you will get a job.

I know you will be telling me stories of how good it goes for you very soon.

WOW deep and inspirational. Thanks! I have definitely found myself there in my nearly 2 months of unemployment. I'm definitely sensing some breakthroughs in my inner peace. But also my self esteem oddly, probably from the soul searching one has time to actually do during a time of unemployment or LOA(leave of absence). Its funny that few short weeks ago I was talking to one of my best friends about monasteries. I joked about him running away to one, knowing its not his thing. Went on to say that I think I was going to start my own woman's monastery. I could see myself living with out speech for long period of time. But in a way I did start my own(solo for me alone) and learned a few things about myself in the process. In the last 2 weeks I've had so many "ah ha" moments its not even funny.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Scipio

1. People do it all the time. Look at all the geeks and nerds who become confident with women due to getting involved in the relationship/PUA community. Look at everyone who joins Toastmasters.

2. You didn't try hard at all. Tell me which of these three things you have done to become a more assertive and outgoing person. If you haven't done any of them, then you *wished*, you didn't *try*:

a. Approached 5 new people every day and introduced yourself.
b. Joined a Toastmasters club and made speeches at every meeting.
c. Asked 3 people out on a date each week.

5 new people every day?! Some days I don't even see ANY people! And 99% of the time when I leave my apartment it's just to a friend's house. I really don't see a lot of other people besides my family and friends. Mostly because I'm unemployed and have no money to be going out unless it's to buy groceries. But I've been getting most of my food from my dad (ugh, i know, but i'm too broke sometimes to buy my own food)...so I only make it to the grocery store about once every 2 months.

Is Toastmasters free?

Ask 3 people out on a date each week!!? Let me tell you, in a whole YEAR I rarely even meet ONE guy I'd like to ask out. Partly because I don't get out much and partly because most guys I meet just want to have sex, and I'm not going to sink to that level. I don't need a man THAT bad.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Angela

I've personally witnessed transformations such as the one you're talking about (painfully shy to social confidence) hundreds of times -- probably closer to a thousand.

I myself used to be the shyest person in the world (I thought), and I can't even find a trace of shyness in me anymore -- I can barely remember what shy feels like.

There is one action I've noticed every single person I've seen who has made such a bold change transformation take: moving to a perspective of being at cause in their lives.

I know we've discussed this before but I can't grasp the whole "being at cause" thing. All I know is when I'm in a situation where I feel awkward and nervous and insecure, even my will to change the situation doesn't make me act differently (in the long run, anyway), and pretending to be someone I'm not fails miserably because I can't BE someone i'm not for very long. It's the whole thing where people say "just be yourself", when you try to change, people can see that you're acting out of character and eventually they see through the facade. Probably what happened in my situation, the first day I was confident and talkative and felt good about it but then once I got involved, my true colors came out and they realized I wasn't what they thought. I mean it's easy to talk the talk but not to walk the walk.