Is having a degree worth the time and effort?

[MattUK]

This is almost a follow-on post from my previous post on how i quit my job on the first day because i feel i cannot work for anyone else but myself.

But here is my current situation, im 20 years old and a college drop out. I dropped out of college because i wanted to make money and do things i wanted to do rather than struggle in a classroom which i didnt enjoy... which i can see now is probably why i feel i cannot work in a place where i am subserviant to someone else.

Recently my friend told me i have no path or no direction in life, although im qualified as a personal trainer, he says i should go back into education so i can get a degree so i can get a "skilled job" and earn a decent income and fulfill my life instead of sitting at home and failing over and over with affiliate marketting etc.

Any input from you guys would be very much appreciated as i feel quite down about this.

Thanks

[Waffle]

To me, a degree is just a piece of paper to certify that you have certain skills. However that might also mean that you have high level of memory skills to attain that degree...

No matter how useless it seems as a piece of paper, we have to accept that this piece of paper is useful in some way. It might help us in job advancement or give us indepth realizations about certain subject.

If you see yourself going into a certain field, it would be better to pursue a related degree. That way, you can up your personal worth, increase your knowledge, make more friends at college and perhaps unravel new opportunities.

[Milo Riano]

That piece of paper may be worthless but the majority of the population think otherwise.

Unless you find things to arm yourself and compensate for the lack of that worthless paper, accept that piece of paper instead...

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by MattUK

Recently my friend told me i have no path or no direction in life, although im qualified as a personal trainer, he says i should go back into education so i can get a degree so i can get a "skilled job" and earn a decent income and fulfill my life instead of sitting at home and failing over and over with affiliate marketting etc.

Having no clear goals certainly is a problem, and from what you've posted that seems to be one of your major problems right now. Getting a college degree so you can get a job where somebody else will be telling you what your goals are is hardly a solution to this. It might work if you're at a low level of consciousness, but if you were then you wouldn't be asking for help here in the first place.

What's very likely to happen to you is what happened to me. I went to college, got a degree, got a job. Just like everyone around me said I should. And then I quickly realized that I don't want to be working for someone else. So basically I spent four years getting a degree and then another year (half of which I was looking for a job, it was a really bad job market after the dot com crash) realizing that I don't even want to have a job. I spent all that time and energy just to get a job, and then I started thinking "now what?". I felt like I flew into a brick wall.

Do you want to waste all that time just to later find out that it's not what you really want? Especially since you already know that it's not what you want. Knowing what you don't want is a good first step though because it means you can now focus on figuring out what you do want. It sounds like you haven't come up with a good way to offer value in exchange for money while working for yourself or running a business.

You say you're a qualified personal trainer, right? If you're passionate about this line of work, why not start your own business based on this? Or simply work for yourself as a personal trainer? One time when I was looking for a gym to join, I found a personal trainer (in the yellow pages) who had set up a mini-gym and worked one on one with clients, who came to his mini-gym. It was really just some rented space in the basement of an office building, and had a whole bunch of gym equipment. With this setup you can serve wealthy clients, who'd be able to pay you a very good hourly rate.

These articles might help you as well:
Living Your Values, Part I
Living Your Values, Part II
The Power of Clarity

[MattUK]

Thanks for the linkd, i will read them now. My passion in life is becomming a professional athlete in mixed martial arts. My friend doubts i will achieve this goal as it is talent based but it's my dream to be successful in it. However to support this goal i have a great interest in fitness so i may start my own freelance business (i think) or just continue with the affiliate marketting (although i'm a newbie at it) so i can earn passively and train full-time.

[andrew]

Talent based? Are you kidding me? Those are the jobs that make more money than the rest. Having a special skill will get you a better job than a degree.

Some people need college. They don't have any special skills out of highschool, and college is a great place to learn. I really don't know what I'd be doing with my life if I didn't learn to design when I was a kid in highschool. And luckily, most jobs ask for a degree OR EQUIVILENT experience. So that's what my portfolio is for. If you don't have anything like this, then I supose college is a good idea. And there are somethings that you HAVE to have a degree. Do you want a brain surgen opperating on you without all that education?

[trekr5]

You should follow your dreams..There will always be people that think, once you take the road less travelled, that you are mad. Ignore them.

If personal training/martial fitness is your passion, follow it! It never hurt Steven Seagal, Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan. Make a business out of it. You'll make a far better success out of something you are passionate about than something you aren't.

A guy started the website bodybuilding.com and began selling supplements for people interested in bodybuilding. Do you know how much money the site grossed 2 years ago? $48m in one year and the owner says that he still sees room for additional growth.

Another guy who is a personal trainer has a business in NY preparing white collar convicted criminals for jail..teaches them the lingo, how to defend themselves, brings in the policemen to give them short courses in what to expect etc. You know how much he charges? $20,000 per person for 100 hours. He grossed $600,000 last year alone from 30 clients and he too sees room for growth

Find your niche and then go for it.

[Mann]

Originally Posted by Baltar

...

These articles might help you as well:
Living Your Values, Part I
Living Your Values, Part II
The Power of Clarity

Balter,

Thanks for the links. Wonderful information, indeed.

Mann

[Nelson]

You really need to decide what you want to do if you are considering college or not.

Many jobs that pay a lot of money such as beng a CEO, lawyer, docteror whatever require a degree or some certification.

But starting your own business doesn't require a degree, it just requires you to be disciplined and courageous.

If you're afraid of risk then you should probably decide on a job that pays a load of dough - and just work your butt off to get there. Or pick a job that will be fulfilling to you - for instance I've always wanted to run a donut shop, but I've also wanted to get rich. I like money more than I like having a fun job. So my plan is to start my energy drink business while I work my up to Mergers and Acquisitions. This way I get both sides of the table - the control and fulfillment of being my own boss while having the ability to get paid even if my business attempts don't work out the way I want.

The best thing to do would be to develop a focus for your life. You can literlally do almost anything and bbecome rich if you work the right angles. Remeber, somebody is getting rich by selling everything in your house. Someone is rich because of toliet paper, someone is rich because of the videogames you play and because of the furniture you use.

I remember that a kid got a $250,000 dollar sponsorship just for playing Halo 2 tournaments. If you can get paid well playing videogames you can get paid doing whatever you want.

[chicagosuccess]

As others have said - the first thing you need to do is develop a true vision of what you want. If getting involved professionally in martial arts is your dream, then you need to close the backdoor on anything else, and make that your sole driving passion. Train people to create the income and the gym time to prepare yourself, and make the most of your opportunities. If you're seeking to add revenue streams while doing so and choose to go the affiliate marketing route, put the effort into making it work.

Unless your friend has any successful experience in affiliate marketing, why would you take advice from him? You might as well ask him how to fly a blackhawk helicopter. Find people that have succeeded and know how to do what you're attempting and take advice only from them, if they'll give it to you.

Getting a degree is fine, if your life goal is to be employed by someone else. Considering you have a disdain for being an employee, this makes getting a degree worthless for you. Why get a degree to put yourself in a position to do what you already know you have no desire to do.

As you're getting this rolling, you may need to take the lumps as an employee of someone for a little while, unless you can make enough training people to support yourself. How do you get over the idea of working for someone else? Remind yourself that it is temporary and set some real goals for getting out of your job.

[Lucas]

I dropped out of college too, after becoming honest with myself that it wasn't where I wanted to be. I plan on finishing up sometime, but it just wanst the experience I was led to believe. While I know that I probably picked the wrong school, and didnt have any defined goals going in (changed majors twice...), a lot of the experience wasnt what I was led to believe. In general its not the progressive and liberal education it says, they still use outdated and ineffective methods of teaching. Most writing is done not to make you a better writer, but able to conform to MLA standards and please the ego of the professor. I got horrible grades in Literary Criticism, because the form of my paper wasnt up to snuff. While I understand that is part of the grade, the class was LitCrit, meaning what I am saying should be more important than how it's formatted on the page. Then again, maybe I am wrong. However most of the time I was there, I felt like I shouldn't be, and out of the 5 years I spent in 3 majors, only 4 or so classes made me say "damn, this is why I came to college", and 3 of those classes were Workshops, which I only got a couple of upper disision credits for, and barely anything towards my degree.

My advice is to go with your intition, and find ways to learn the things you need (like Martial Arts Workshops), instead of going for the traditional "well rounded" education of a University. Just do what feels right.

[dgorila1]

Figure out what you are interested in and think of how you can make a living at it. One alternative to college ii some type of trade school (i.e. auto body repair, mechanics, heating and a/c, welding, truck driving, computers, medical, massage, etc). The service industry is always hurting for talent, and you can easily be your own boss in most service fields and make a good living at it. I know plenty of people that run their own business (construction, bodywork, roofing, carpet cleaning,lawn care, etc) and they have done quite well for themselves. Just something to consider.

[jthayes]

The biggest thing I can suggest is figure out what you *really* want to do. What are you really passionate about? It takes a lot of time and energy to commit yourself to something for three to four years. To really get anything out of it (other than just a piece of paper) it has to be something you feel inspired and passionate about.

I don't know the statistics but its something like 1/3rd of all university students either A) drop out during/after first year, or B) change course during/after first year.

This is simply because they haven't worked out what they want to do. I remember looking at a lot of people when I did my degree wondering what are you doing? Because they surely didn't want to be at Uni learning. They were just failing everything. I went away after my second year on a Industry Based Learning scholarship with DSTO came back to University the following year and some people were still catching up 2nd year subjects. Not only does it add to your HECS debt, it takes more time. This means you have to support yourself for longer and are out of industry for longer (which is really costing you money).

I'm really passionate about software development so for me my degree in Computer Science and Software Engineering was an absolute pleasure. Was it worth it? I think so. But then I applied myself to something I new I wanted to do.

[ety45]

These are all good points. Education or a degree should never be seen as the end all of everything as it has been proven time and time again as previously mentioned that people with extraordinary talent or extraordinary ideas can succeed. All it takes is hard work, character, some smarts, and a degree of providential blessing.

All that being said, having a degree can never hurt you (unless in terms of the opportunity cost of your time and money) and it may open up many doors for you in the future that without a degree would be unreachable. The more knowledge the better - whether it be a degree or the "school of hard knocks".

A degree/specialized training is of course always a nice thing to be able to fall back on as you get older and want to try new things (or are forced to try new things due to business environment, market, etc). If you are an older person with some type of professional certification/degree from an independent instituation then you are also better able to compete.

[jpfieber]

I've got a masters degree I'm not using, but I'd go through it again. I got my degree in architecture, and I find that the time I spent focusing on learning design and problem solving, as well as working with other intelligent people, was well worth it. I use many of the skills I learned every day, and might not have learned had I taken a different path. Not sure if all degrees will help the average person on a daily basis, but I'd have to think in most cases the time you devote to your education will pay off ten fold in life.

[da1prophet]

Originally Posted by MattUK

This is almost a follow-on post from my previous post on how i quit my job on the first day because i feel i cannot work for anyone else but myself.

But here is my current situation, im 20 years old and a college drop out. I dropped out of college because i wanted to make money and do things i wanted to do rather than struggle in a classroom which i didnt enjoy... which i can see now is probably why i feel i cannot work in a place where i am subserviant to someone else.

Recently my friend told me i have no path or no direction in life, although im qualified as a personal trainer, he says i should go back into education so i can get a degree so i can get a "skilled job" and earn a decent income and fulfill my life instead of sitting at home and failing over and over with affiliate marketting etc.

Any input from you guys would be very much appreciated as i feel quite down about this.

Thanks

Again, this is a case where its important to not let the "expectations" of others determine the decisions you make in life. I went to college and got a degree, but it has done nothing for me professionally. Of course I really didn't expect it to--I majored in English Literature as it was what I was most interested and passionate about. I loved to write and research, and enjoyed the college environment. It was also a very beneficial experience in figuring out who I was and what I wanted in life.

Of course it isn't for everyone. A lot of the college age people I know face similar concerns and what I usually tell them is that if you're not sure what you want to do in life college is, on balance, not a bad thing to do. It's better to be doing *something* to progress in life than doing nothing. If you've figured out that its not for you, however, don't get down about it.

Again, you can't let people how to tell you how to live your life. As I've mentioned in some of your other threads you've got a good plan developing your interests and talents. Don't let other people's perception of reality--which have nothing to do with your own--take you off the path of your goals.

A friend of mine I went to high school with had a similar situation to yours. He was a very talented athlete, and would eventually become a professional snowboarder for a few years. His dad insisted, however, that he go to college and get a degree so he could get a "respectable job". He was a sharp guy, but just hated the academic environment so he dropped out after a few semesters. He had a bit of conflict with his dad over this, but eventually he also became a personal trainer and built a very lucrative business from it. He also continued to teach and coach snowboarding, which also made him a good deal of money and he eventually worked with the US Olympic Snowboarding team. He's making a good living doing what he loves, and has no shortage of options for other money making ventures in these fields.

Bottom line--college isn't for everyone. If you didn't have any concept of what you wanted to do in life, its not a bad place to get some perspective but in your case its important to just focus on the goals you have.

[Dani]

I dropped out of university halfway through my second year and never looked back.

Every job I have every held had 'requires bachelor degree' on the advertisement but I didn't have one and still got the jobs.

Before I tossed my previous career aside I was earing up to $800 a day without a degree. So you don't -need- it.

However if you don't have one, you need something else to make you appealing to an employer.

Bottom line is follow your heart. You will only need the degree if you aren't imaginative enough to find a way around it.

You can always buy one online if you want one that badly.

[Liara Covert]

People can only usually offer advice based on what they know or have known. Anyone who says you must have a university degree likely took that path and doesn't know much about any other one. Most people I know have taken conventional paths and regard my own as a bit of an enigma. As you grow and gain self-confidence, it won't matter to you whether other people criticize or question your choices.

The key is to figure out where your passions lie. People like Richard Branson (CEO of Virgin Airways & hundreds of businesses), Oprah Winfrey and many other people didn't finish highschool, let-a-lone obtain a university degree. They felt their way along, learned about themselves, and created a personal kind of success. They took risks along the way. They accepted making lower incomes at first, but they also moved up hierarchies and earned more money.

From my experience, once you discover the sources of your passions and focus on them, you will not only attract enriching opportunities into your life, but also people, events and unforeseen experiences that will change your life for the better. No matter where you are or what you're doing, you can learn something useful from it. What have you learned about yourself in the recent past? Where do you wish to be?

[wilsonng]

Degree important? yes,

Because of the things you have to undergo and learn to get that degree.

[drakedee]

I got my degree form my local library... and its free...

[Robert Avila]

MattUK....this of course is one of those "It depends" Questions....

If what you wish to achieve...and that is the big question...requires a degree, then yes it's important.

I have friends that are attorneys and physicians that enjoy what they do....so their degree is important.

I have other friends in Real Estate, Financial Planning, Mortgage Brokers....they do have degrees, however their degrees don't even relate to their profession.

If you enjoy personal training start there. Build up your client base and go for it. You will get an education in the process....marketing, sales etc. Find a successful mentor that you can bounce ideas off of.

Remember...."personal training".....doesn't have to look like ..clients in a gym one-on-one. This would be the best place to start your business. As your client base grows and your schedule fills up...eventually you can only train so many people in one day limiting what you can do.

Maybe you can branch out to marketing your training techniques to other personal trainers...and become their consultant on building a successful business. You can even market your own training DVDs or have a website educating people.

You have so many options....as long as you continue to grow and move forward....doors will open up and you will see the next step....it will appear!


Robert

[Thomas Jensen]

I live in the UK and went to university here. I reckon most of the courses could be condensed from three down to two years. There's also an element of the universities being businesses themselves, and the ensuing debt burden for alumni of each institution. Having said that, it can open doors. It's just a long time on theory instead of being out there and living life in the business world for real. I'm glad I got started, but part of me wishes I'd embarked on this path much earlier.

I think university should be looked at as a life experience in itself, and not just achieving the paper qualification at the end.

[persephonevii]

Degrees are only relevant if you are actually interested in a field with that degree. Otherwise it is a waste of your time and money. I am like you. I choose not to go to university because what they have is not of interest to me. Of course, like most old people, my parents (especially my father) are crowing on about 'You will regret it!' and wagging their authoritorian finger at you and shaking their heads at you. My mother wants me to become a nurse 'Because it's good money and there is loads of old people to serve!'. Now helping the eldery is honorable and all, but it is just not me. Just like doing university all over again is just not you.

Do what you want to do. You can only suceed at what you love, as long as you put the effort, the commitment and the positive attitude into it. But I think if you are that passionate about being a personal trainer/martial arts expert, then effort and commitment are in the package too. A positive attitude is something that might need to be cultivated, but by the looks of it you do seem to be strong enough to resist the ramblings of a well-intentioned but ultimately clueless friend. Clueless because he is trying to define you, when the only person who can define you is you!

tracyrtwyman your story meant a lot to me. It was very encouraging to me. Whilst it is very tragic, you lost so much of yourself... I think it does have the silver lining of showing others what can and usually does happen when you let others define you.

[Cat Dancer]

Originally Posted by MattUK

My passion in life is becomming a professional athlete in mixed martial arts. [...] to support this goal i have a great interest in fitness so i may start my own freelance business (i think) or just continue with the affiliate marketting (although i'm a newbie at it) so i can earn passively and train full-time.

You should follow your passion.

To make money now, today, you will need to invest time. To think that you can make money passively with affiliate marketing without investing time first is a myth.

You can be successful in affiliate marketing if you are passionate about it, work at it full time every day, think about affiliate marking all the time, and work to build up your affiliate marketing program. Eventually you will be generating passive income.

The same is true with your fitness business. If you live, eat, breath fitness, you will build your fitness business, and eventually it too will be generating passive income.

But you can't do both. If you try to do both, you will lose focus. And not do either very well.

At 20 you can hold two full time jobs. 20 year olds do it all the time. So train eight hours a day. And spend eight hours a day doing something to make enough money so that you can train. And spend the remaining eight hours of the day grabbing something to eat and sleeping.

After all, what else do you have to do?

Focus yourself 100% on your goal of training. You need food to eat so that you can train. OK, do something, anything, it doesn't matter what, to make money to buy food to eat. You can make good money cleaning houses. Mowing lawns. Shoveling snow. Go out, yourself, not working for someone else, grab a shovel or a lawn mower, go out and find a house that needs snow shoveled or a lawn mowed, knock on the door, and say, "I offer to shovel your walk and driveway (or mow your lawn) for X euros".

Get on craigslist. Post a services offered ad that you want to be a professional athlete and are in training. Tell the truth: say in the ad that you need work so that you can train. The truth is very powerful. List everything that you can do and are willing to do, whether that be to help someone move, to clean out their garage, to haul brush off their lawn, to mow, to shovel, whatever you are willing to do.

You can't train effectively if you are tired. So sleep, so you aren't tired, so you can train. You can't sleep if you don't have a place to sleep, so do something, anything, it doesn't matter what, to make money to pay rent so you have a place to sleep, so you can train.

You can't train at full effectiveness if you never have fun, if you never take a break and relax. So take a break, have some fun, so that you are refreshed, so that you can train at full effectiveness.

Is something not working right now to help you train? Is affiliate marketing, for example, not making you money now, today, to help you train? Then drop it. Do something else. Don't believe anyone who says, "you have to do this or that or some other thing to make good money". So what? You don't need "good money" now, today, to train. You just need enough money. Tomorrow your fitness business will be making you good money. (And if you need someone with a college degree to help you run that business, you can hire them). But for today, you don't need to worry about that. You fitness business success is coming, traveling towards you, and will arrive if you don't block its arrival by not training. Today all you need to do is train, to do whatever is necessary and sufficient so that you can train, and you need not do anything more today.

I hope this was helpful,

Cat

[Zero]

Passionate people are guided by their passions. Michael Dell, the founder of Dell Computers, started a computer business in his dorm at college. The business became so successful that it consumed his time, and he had no choice but to drop out of college to pursue it.

If you read stories and autobiographies about successful entrepreneurs, they all found their passion through hard work and dedication. The hard work is where the passionate decisions come from. The passion is organic.

In your case, you are trying to pass off your decisions of quitting a job after one day or dropping out of school as passionate. The thinking is backwards. Many of the people who gave a reply and your friend that you mention are seeing right through this charade. The passion is artificial, masking your laziness.

If I am right, you took one look at an obstacle - job and school - and gave up. The same thing will happen with mixed martial arts, affiliate marketing, relationships and everything else in your life. When you find out that X is too much work, you will quit and follow your 'passion' Y.

Go back to school and get a job. When you have free time, find your passion.

[Lychee]

I suggest that you resume studying so that you can get a degree. The work involved may be tedious and boring to you, but sometimes you have to do what you don't really want to do to get something that you want. Nothing can take the place of formal education and this day and age is one of the best times ever to take advantage of this opportunity.

Instead of looking at college as a struggle, see it as a challenge. Just get it done and be proud of it. You learn things at college that you could never learn in a library and vice versa.

Every decision you make not only affects you, but the people around you. You want to be a professional athelete so that maybe you can someday open up a business or continue with marketing. Go to business school or take some economics classes. Maybe you'd be better at helping your clients or customers if you got a degree, which might led to some unique opportunity had you not decided to go to back to school.

Anyone can claim to be anything. They can say that they are great at "X" and their work may reflect that, but not everyone can simply take you for your word. A standardized test, a college degree, all provide a general level which generally reflects your knowledge and expertise. College should be a learning experience for you.

You should seriously think about what exactly you want to do with your life. What careers do you want to look into? How long do you want to stay in the business? How large do you want your business to be? What if that plan doesn't work and you stick with affiliate marketing - what will you do? How will you go about doing it? How will you be able to build a good database of clients for you to flourish and become successful?

As they say, keep your feet on the ground but reach for the sky. Don't listen to your friend who says you have no direction in life - we've all felt unsure about things one time or another. Seriously spend some time to contemplate your life goals, your values, and the way on how to reach these goals.

[placebo]

I was in your situtaton 4 years ago. I was very good basketball player but i was also doing well in highschool. But i was never into all that education stuff, simply doing enough so i can play basketball without restrictions from coach or parents.
And one day i finished highschool. Everyone was talking how importand degree is and that is too hard to be a good player if you don't have someone to guide you . (Mob guy or something, i don't know). In all that noise of so many voices I've started to believe that i'm not good enough and that degree will give me security in the future.

After whole life spent dreaming just one dream i simply quit and started doing something i didn't care about. I got sick, depression was killing me for about year and a half. Not knowing what to do and where you're going is so difficult. Years passed by but still not a single day pass by without me thinking about basketball. It is not so hard like in the begining because i was doing a lot of personal development and therapy. And that is a battle i wouldn't recomend to anyone.

Simply and clearly : Follow your dream if that is the only thing you can do 24/7 without being bored.

[Antiventurecapital]

Originally Posted by MattUK

This is almost a follow-on post from my previous post on how i quit my job on the first day because i feel i cannot work for anyone else but myself.

But here is my current situation, im 20 years old and a college drop out. I dropped out of college because i wanted to make money and do things i wanted to do rather than struggle in a classroom which i didnt enjoy... which i can see now is probably why i feel i cannot work in a place where i am subserviant to someone else.

Recently my friend told me i have no path or no direction in life, although im qualified as a personal trainer, he says i should go back into education so i can get a degree so i can get a "skilled job" and earn a decent income and fulfill my life instead of sitting at home and failing over and over with affiliate marketting etc.

Any input from you guys would be very much appreciated as i feel quite down about this.

Thanks

I have a degree in business from a top university in Canada. All the really valuable things about money making that I learned, I learned on my own long after completing my degree. For some fields a college degree is vital: physics, medicine, accounting, etc. For business it's not really that important.

Having a degree in many instances simply makes it easier for other people with degrees to accept you. This is particularly true when seeking a job.

Bottom line: if you are young, get a degree, otherwise a lot of doors in life will be shut to you.

[MattUK]

Originally Posted by Antiventurecapital

I have a degree in business from a top university in Canada. All the really valuable things about money making that I learned, I learned on my own long after completing my degree. For some fields a college degree is vital: physics, medicine, accounting, etc. For business it's not really that important.

Having a degree in many instances simply makes it easier for other people with degrees to accept you. This is particularly true when seeking a job.

Bottom line: if you are young, get a degree, otherwise a lot of doors in life will be shut to you.

I'm goin to have to disagree with you... since i created this thread ive made $1120 online, something i didnt previously think was possible.

It feels great to be unemployed knowing i have uncapped potential

[Erki]

Interesting thing is that since so many people have degrees these days, employers have a hard time seeking out who's the real deal and who's not. And in some cases, people without degrees have been chosen for work instead of those who have a degree, because they went to university/college and got a degree, just to have a degree.