Academic Success to Career Success

[cardinalduke]

For those of you who consider yourself highly successful academically, how were you able to transition that academic success into career success?

What obstacles did you face? What were a couple of the key areas of personal development that occurred to make the transition?

My undergraduate university was filled with highly successful individuals academically. They often possessed the level of intelligence and personal traits needed to show superior academic performance. (Example, self-disciplined, strong work ethic, strong problem solving skills). Yet these same individuals sometimes had astonishing troubles establishing meaningful and successful careers subsequently.

If any of you have had this sort of problem, do you care to share your experiences?

[estudiant9]

Originally Posted by cardinalduke

My undergraduate university was filled with highly successful individuals academically. They often possessed the level of intelligence and personal traits needed to show superior academic performance. (Example, self-disciplined, strong work ethic, strong problem solving skills). Yet these same individuals sometimes had astonishing troubles establishing meaningful and successful careers subsequently.

This is a very interesting question. I can't do justice to this question since I'm still in college, but my take on this issue is that excellence in college academics involves development of a very narrow skill set, often at the exclusion of other crucial skills. The classmates I admire and seek to emulate the most are "good" (not exceptional) students who actively cultivate non-scholarly interests, and know how to be flexible with their priorities. They are willing to let their hair down, come and do something crazy with you even if it means skipping a class once in a while, and are a delight to be around. They aren't perfectionists. They are simply excellent human beings.

A fellow who lives across my room is president of the debate club, an expert juggler, and a math tutor. He's respectful, down-to-earth, and a great friend. There's no end to the range of things he and I (or anybody else) can talk about. He's sharp enough, although not a 4.0 student, that he'll give any academic genius a run for his money, and is likable and motivational for all who are around him, which can't be said for most "perfect students." I doubt he worries too much about finding a good place for him in the "real world."

[CubicleBailout]

I know someone personally that suffers from this. Was very successful in school, got into a good Grad School and funded it themselves. Then entered the workforce and discovered they weren't any good at what they went to school for the hard way - by getting let go from several jobs in that field.

I think this comes down to personality and social skills mostly. You need to have some level of street smarts or common sense that guides you when you don't know something.

The above commenter has a good start - be well rounded. This will put you into a variety of social situations and meet a diverse group of people that will increase your street smarts. If all you know is book smarts, then you can excel well in the bubble-like school atmosphere, but then enter the working world and end up in situations or with coworkers or bosses that you don't know how to deal with.

Don't wait to start work until after college. Do different types of work on college breaks or do internships. I had a fair share of manual labor jobs before finishing college - these are real eye openers. This will also help you build a work ethic outside of school assignments. In the real world there is a lot of ambiguity and your ability to deal with it will help.

[ginkgo]

You can be the smartest guy in college but not be able to get along with people. The better that you can get along with people, the better your chance of being president of the United States. Being in business yourself takes a lot of guts and it is a gamble. Then there is the luck factor. At first Donald Trump was a failure when he bought Trump Towers.

He was going bankrupt and went to his investors and told them that since everything is going down the drain, he needs more money to save it and they gave him more money. In college they do not grade you on passion, but Trump had passion for what he was doing. Bill Gates likes computers more than money. The owners of Google love the internet with a passion.

[ucqwerty]

I am surprised to see that nobody is really arguing that there is a correlation.

I will agree that there are a lot of people who do well in school but have a hard time adjusting after school. I agree that usually it's those that have less developed social skills. They may do really well at school because it's just their personality to love the material they're studying, and no other particular strengths of character.

But, I think the skills that most successful people use to do well in school are the same skills required to do well in life. School isn't just about crazy amounts of studying, it's also about being resourceful, networking to make life easier for yourself, being original, and creating an image for yourself. The skills required to get a good research position are the same skills required to get a good job. The skills required to lead a good research project are the same skills required to lead a good company. Unless you are the type of student that lives for memorizing things and completing tests, the skills you learn in university are the same skills needed in life. I strongly believe that success in university is a stepping stone towards success in life. Of course, some people that do well in school don't do well after school, and some people that do well in life didn't go to school, but I think those are exceptions rather than the rule.

Also, if you take a look at the world's billionaires, you will find that the majority are highly educated. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffett, Donald Trump, Sergey Brin and Larry Page all had what it took to do very well in school (and they did do well). World Leaders are for the most part also well educated. Academics are obviously well education. I'm not too sure about humanitarians since I have not studied them extensively. But those categories take care of a lot of different types of success. Most importantly, if you're not planning to be a world authority on something, I don't have a statistic, but I bet you're more likely to have more "common" success (e.g. not world fame) if you're educated.

I realize that I am arguing something slightly different then what you are asking for. I just don't want this thread turning into an education put-down. Education is a stepping stone in life, and every step matters.

[ucqwerty]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

In college they do not grade you on passion

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to point something out.

Passion and grades in university need not be mutually exclusive. Those people you mentioned were all passionate in university. Sure, some of them found what they were looking for in university (Donald Trump completed his studies at Wharton, as did Larry Page, Sergey Brin and Warren Buffett from their respective schools, from my list) whereas some didn't (Bill Gates felt Harvard wasn't cutting edge enough in computers at the time, and Steve Jobs dropped out), but they all did well at their respective schools probably BECAUSE they were passionate.

I find that passion is strongly correlated with success in school. Why else would the top students be getting the top grades if not for passion?

Again, there are exceptions.

[ucqwerty]

Sorry for spamming this thread; just one more thing.

There are also plenty of people who did not go to school or dropped out because it wasn't right for them or they did not get the chance, but they are still wildly successful. The first person that comes to mind for me is Richard Branson.

All I'm saying is that many people tell themselves that "school isn't important", I'll flourish after university. If you are that person, kindly do not fool yourself. If school isn't right for you, take action. Saying that school isn't important for you because it does not build real world skills and being mediocre is the very antithesis of what this website stands for. University is a miniature "real life" and it can build whatever skills you want it to. If it can't, then go outside of school to get them. But please, do not give yourself the "Silent Approval" (as Steve says) of not taking initiative because it's "not important". Every moment in life is important.

Again, sorry for hijacking the thread.

[Merr]

This is a really fascinating thread. I think that I am an example of this 'in progress' so to speak. Definitely an academic success - I got the highest grades at school, for my first degree and my master's degree. I am also doing well in my career, but not as well as I could be. The reason is that I lack confidence in dealing with people sometimes. However, I wouldn't say that my social skills are outright poor. When I work one-to-one with people, I think that I really try to understand where they are coming from and I have some good feedback on this. I think that being well-rounded is definitely important as it means that you have a lot to talk about and have more than just your education. However, the flip side of that is that too many outside activities can really hamper your education. I've seen this many times.

I've seen the key word come up a few times in this thread and it's important: passion. You can be technically accurate, do a good job at things, but unless your passion comes across (or you have exceptional networking skills), you won't be as successful as you could be.

In truth, I don't think it's even about intelligence. I'd credit myself with having some but I know there are many people who were smarter than me who didn't do as well as I did and still aren't. I truly believe it's because of the lack of passion on their part. Also, it isn't just about having passion it's about expressing it... people need to feel it.

[Clint Cora]

We have found that in many cases, academic success is only a part of the reason why people end up being very successful in careers. The other element are people skills. In fact, people skills are even more important than grades in terms of promotions. With an extreme case of somebody with very high grades and lousy people skills, this person will not do as well as somebody with average grades and awesome people skills. The top leaders in industry all have excellent people skills as a main character trait.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by ucqwerty

I am surprised to see that nobody is really arguing that there is a correlation.

It'd be a pretty silly argument - there is ample evidence that those who complete more school, do better in school, and go to more prestigious schools earn more money. Assuming that's your metric of career success the case is closed from a data collection perspective. That said, the effect appears only on the average. The outliers in both directions are both dramatic and numerous.

I myself am an outlier on the high side - I was only passably successful in school (MS from a state university with acceptable grades) but I've been very successful in my career - I'm probably top-5% of earners out of those of similar degree and age.

I can tell you what differences I see: school success is about four things

1) acceptable intelligence
2) a willingness to follow requirements/directions exactly
3) a willingness to put in sufficient time to do a good job of following the directions
4) the ability to infer implied but not explicitly stated requirements on assignments and follow those requirements (for example, a sociology paper may have the implicit requirement that you support the prof's political bias)

I had no shortage of 1) but only a limited interest in 2)-4) depending on the class, so I got only acceptable grades.

The real world is different. Intelligence still matters. Showing up still matters. But the tasks you need to be doing are no longer externally assigned. You now have wide latitude to choose what you do, and suddenly the choices matter. For example in school if you're doing a music degree it makes no real difference whether you do your performance classes on English horn or French horn. You can get an A just as easily either way. But in the real world it matters - there are 4 French horn chairs for every 1 English horn chair in a symphony and there are many more competent English horn players. So playing French horn is a way better choice.

Similarly, drive matters in the real world. There's no one telling you that you have to do much of anything. Just sitting on the couch is an option. There's no list of task your have to accomplish with due dates and surprisingly little punishment if you do nothing at all when compared to school.

Other people have commented on people skills, and I agree in general that they increase in importance.

[falcan]

Agree with SnerpGoodWord, btw. ucqwerty, apart from Branson also Bill Gates and Steve Jobs from your list are college dropouts Maybe someone else too, I didn't check, I just know about those two.

I would say that in general, for most of the population, college increases chances for success.

For those few "weirdos" though, who have who knows why problems with authority, or who knows why have a strong need to start "projects" (like I had) and feel like school is in their way/doesn't correspond to what they need, I think they will be better off taking an alternative route.

People are just not bricks, and there is a minority of people who like to go a more unique way, and it's also better for them to do so. I think it's very important to self-identify to which group you belong and then decide based on that. I'd say, that many(if not most) people from this forum are in that minority, that's why you sometimes see lots of people agreeing with leaving college is cool etc.

I think that it should be communicated to young people that there is a choice and it doesn't have to lead to being homeless(and for that matter, I know a very succesfull lady who was homeless for a while when she was 16). Maybe more people than we think (including me when I was teenager) are in the "minority" but simply are unaware that there is such an option, that it might be for them, and that it might actually be better for them than "go to college, get a job->success".

If instead of high school->college->job everyone would know that there is another, alternative, and also fine road of school->your own thing(business or whatever) they would save themselves year or two of frustration before realizing it's not for them and not feeling like crazy when leaving college( the "only" way to success ). And as a result later coming to these forums and asking other people if they are crazy or not by thinking like that

[greatmind]

One short answer to this post is academic success and career/life success are not correlated in any way.
I personally know tons of people who were super failures in college life and today are earning 3-5 times more than our class and college toppers. Many of these super failures failed in college and took one to three years more than the stipulated time for college completion. Many of them have settled abroad or are thinking of settling abroad.
When I was in college I also used to think that only academically bright students become success in life but now my perception is completely changed.
In fact my very good friend was a below average student in college and he has cracked one of the toughest exam in my country. So I don't think academic success counts for anything except your ego.

[SnerpGoodWord]

Originally Posted by greatmind

One short answer to this post is academic success and career/life success are not correlated in any way.

The data says otherwise.

Education pays ...

That's not to say it's a perfect correlation, but it's clearly very strong.

[lemonmeringue]

Yup... This is the situation I'm currently in at 23 (I'm employed but actively seeking a new job and hopefullya more fulfilling career).

My main struggle is with the fact that while schoolwork was stimulating, varied, and high-pressure, "real world" work is dull and repetitive. My coworkers aren't that bright, and the general office atmosphere is "do as little as possible and leave early". When there's not much to do in the first place, it's hard to fight that mentality.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong business.

[bobby2007]

Originally Posted by lemonmeringue

Yup... This is the situation I'm currently in at 23 (I'm employed but actively seeking a new job and hopefullya more fulfilling career).

My main struggle is with the fact that while schoolwork was stimulating, varied, and high-pressure, "real world" work is dull and repetitive. My coworkers aren't that bright, and the general office atmosphere is "do as little as possible and leave early". When there's not much to do in the first place, it's hard to fight that mentality.

Maybe I'm just in the wrong business.

Sounds about right. Academic Success should lead to to the workplace ... because for the most part, people go to school to get into the workplace. Your career success is not guarenteed however, because it's just a different game.

Risk taking matters. Also, there are no right answers, just a bunch of questions unlike school.

It's like Olympic (top amateur boxing) vs Professionals. It's a completely different scoring system, headgear vs no head gear. I think 4 rounds vs 15 rounds.

[Clint Cora]

The missing link for these high performing academics is people skills. The career world at large don't really care about your grades at school but they do care about how well you interact with others at work and what you can do for their organizations.

This is an area that I talk about at length during my talks at colleges and universities. I give a heads up for students who are near graduation to encourage them to prep up their people skills.

[dkhoe]

Originally Posted by Clint Cora

The missing link for these high performing academics is people skills. The career world at large don't really care about your grades at school but they do care about how well you interact with others at work and what you can do for their organizations.

Having been there, done that, I would agree. I'd also add that your political skills within an organization will also affect your success. By political skills, I include leadership abilities, formation of coalitions/alliances, getting stuff done through others even if they don't report to you, self-promotion and recognition of your achievements (as well as the opposite, minimization of your failures!), etc. It's unfortunate that academic institutions, even business schools, generally do not provide training in these areas.

[persephonevii]

It's a question that's been bothering me too lately. I'm a first year at college and pride myself on my consistently high grades, however, I've heard a number of statements about the ease vs difficulty of getting employed after college. These statements basically were about that having a job during Uni might be necessary for some, but also very helpful in getting work once you graduate. As the old adage goes: It's easier to get employed, if you are employed; employers do not like the unemployed/empty spaces on the resume.

I've also heard that having a job during shows a potential employer that you have people skills, can do a good balancing act and are a well-rounded individual. So now I'm worried, my high grades might be my personal gold standard to me but they could mean diddly-squat out in the real world (which of course, also beggars the questions: why bother with high grades anyway?) if I wasn't employed during uni to prove that I'm not some anti-social nerd with no people skills.

I currently am not employed and spend most of my time doing degree work and degree-related work (I study graphic design and enjoy it, so both my "work" and play time involve graphic design/illustration). I also previously didn't bother chasing employment because my money situation is fine, I was worried having a job at uni would do my grades in (and then obviously, what would of been the point in going anyway?) and finally my track record of employment prior to Uni is pretty dismal anyway.

So how has it been for people who had jobs in uni and then transitioned to the real world? Easier? Harder? Do grades count anymore?

[aelle]

I did not have a job during my studies (excpet for a few hours of tutoring the times my grants and scholarships didn't meet my needs), but I did plenty of internships and professional projects. Almost one of each per year, actually. I also took a year off school to take part in a highly selective intership program that sent me to Japan.

This means that when graduation time came, I had plenty of work experience to pick and choose from, I could tailor my resume for the job and still fill a solid A4 page. Even though I graduated at the height of the financial crisi I got an interesting job.

My boyfriend, on the other hand, had a student job all along and only one internship, and he's struggling to find a first job even though his education was more selective and reputed than mine (similar field though).

I don't know how things work in graphic design. How about you start by finding that out? Call up a few design firms and ask them how they select their employees. Meet with some successful freelancers and ask them how they land their clients. This should make the plan you need to implement for success a lot clearer.

[persephonevii]

Aelle, thanks for that piece of advice. What sort of professional projects did you do? I know my university does summer projects and a program for exchange students.