Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums

mbk1382 · 03-10-2009, 10:52 AM

I am reposting this as a new thread in teh business section.

This post is in reply to the invitation for a first post.

Hi to all of you, I am in my forties and have been in mid level management most of my career. Hope I can find some help in this forum to move past the mid management level.

I think the problem is that I can not see my self as a senior manager for some reason and I have been past over for senior positions several times without me putting up any kind of a "fight".

I am confident and sure that I have the skills and knowledge for it, my performance evaluations and reputation confirms that - at least to my self. So I am ready but it is like I am waiting for something to "push me" up the management levels rather than going after it.

I have red the article "The Courage To Live Consciously" and it is great but I still do no know who to start tackling this issue - I feel like I am running out of time.

SchoolisHard · 03-10-2009, 12:44 PM

It sounds to me like you are comfortable in middle-management at your current company. You probably have many years of experience in your position, and something inside of you wants you to stay where you feel both safe and competent.

Have you considered interviewing at another company in your industry?

RT Wolf · 03-10-2009, 03:15 PM

The person to read would probably be Brian Tracy. He's written a lot of books and a lot of them are about doing better in jobs.

Have you tried talking to the people who made the decision why you keep getting passed over? if you make it clear that you're not looking to pick a fight or prove something, just for feedback so you can improve, they might be willing to give you good feedback.

SimonaRich · 03-10-2009, 06:49 PM

Untill you see yourself as in the position you would like to have, you will not be able to get it. Try using affirmations that you are worth the position or some other encouraging ones. They will change some limiting beliefs that you have about you being able to cope with the position you want to get.

SomeRandomGuy · 03-11-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbk1382

I think the problem is that I can not see my self as a senior manager for some reason

Do you want to be a senior manager? Is it possible that you can't see yourself as a senior manager because you really have no desire to be one? If that is the case, what is wrong with staying where you are?

mbk1382 · 03-14-2009, 10:39 AM

folks,

Thanks for your replies, I know I want to move higher, and that i am qualified. I know the issues is one of "courage" - or lack of and not sure how to build it up.

Does any one have any pointers to were I can get tips on affirmations or other ways to move my self closer to my goal?

Thanks in advance.

alexplatups · 03-14-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbk1382

folks,

Does any one have any pointers to were I can get tips on affirmations or other ways to move my self closer to my goal?

mbk1382,

I have not started my self-development site yet, but I have some info you
might want to read, at my weight loss site, the technique is universal, and
it can be used for creating any result

Weight Loss Motivation

and then read the part about goal-setting, at the end of this page there will
be a link to it

...this is an effective way to go from where you are now to where you want
to be in the future

hope it is of some help to you

later

Alex Platups

justfiverules · 03-16-2009, 10:20 AM

OP,
In some companies what separates mid from senior management is a combination of political savvy and relationship networking.

All other things being equal (as measured by performance evals, 360s etc), there is a certain amount of "board room street smarts" required to gain admission.

How do your mentors / experienced managers rate you on these factors?

Also, does your company have a career development process? If so, perhaps one approach is to scope out what skills/aptitudes you need to visibly demonstrate that you're ready... and in addition to having these on your 2009 CDP, make a business case for hiring a business/career coach to help you polish whatever rough edges are holding you back.

If this company believes in your senior management abilities then they should look at the coaching expense as an investment. You'll have to convince them of that, of course - especially in this tough business climate!

Just my 10 yen.

CubicleBailout · 03-21-2009, 03:06 AM

I am not in middle management, not even in management. From what I have seen at the large fortune 500 company I work for, you really have to be in the in crowd with the senior management. Or you have to be 'the' top performer and really work your tail off. Or get lucky (not in the violating HR rules way

) but in the true sense of Lucky.

I interact with 'senior' managers frequently in my job and some of them really are senior, but a lot of them just enjoy the politics, infighting and childlike games - mostly power struggle games.

Like Steve has mentioned in his blog and book several times: create and deliver value. I don't think senior managers or even middle managers are on the 'create' side of that equation but on the delivery side. They can enable people to deliver by leading, coaching, etc.

It doesn't sound like senior management is what you want though. What are you looking to get out of it? What is driving you in that direction?

Is it because that is the only way you see growth right now is to move up the corporate ladder? Could you grow in other ways that would fulfill you?

You really don't need to answer these questions here and don't take them personally, just things to think about

mbk1382 · 03-23-2009, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubicleBailout

It doesn't sound like senior management is what you want though. What are you looking to get out of it? What is driving you in that direction?

Is it because that is the only way you see growth right now is to move up the corporate ladder? Could you grow in other ways that would fulfill you?

CB,

I read your questions and did not know how to answer them!!! I guess I have been in the shadows of others (Sr managers?) too long doing an excellent job for them. Now I am trying to go on my own and do not know how to do that.

RT Wolf · 03-23-2009, 01:42 PM

Have you tried asking for advice from senior staff of how they got there? Or maybe for mentoring or feedback time? Not to knock the advice here, but I haven't seen anyone who's done what you're trying to do. The advice you'll get from people who've done what you're trying to do may well be very different from what "makes sense".

JackTP · 03-24-2009, 10:30 PM

I think you answered your own question in your post.

You did not put up a fight for promotion, you do not see yourself as senior management.

I don't want to sound cliche here, but there is some truth that if you dont believe in yourself no one else will, or in my experience, some people may anyway and they become mentors and your greatest inspiration.

But they are few around and when you meet people like this, remember to keep contact.

I see senior management (without having experience) as not so much based on "expert skill" which it seems you have, but on "people skills". Yes, another one out of the text book! In senior management you will never be hands on as much, so you must learn how to find smart people to trust.

Anyway, I suggest spending more time with people in senior management positions, in social settings if you can. See what they have in common.

Thats my 2 cents..

03-10-2009, 10:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
mbk1382 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6	can not move past mid level management I am reposting this as a new thread in teh business section. This post is in reply to the invitation for a first post. Hi to all of you, I am in my forties and have been in mid level management most of my career. Hope I can find some help in this forum to move past the mid management level. I think the problem is that I can not see my self as a senior manager for some reason and I have been past over for senior positions several times without me putting up any kind of a "fight". I am confident and sure that I have the skills and knowledge for it, my performance evaluations and reputation confirms that - at least to my self. So I am ready but it is like I am waiting for something to "push me" up the management levels rather than going after it. I have red the article "The Courage To Live Consciously" and it is great but I still do no know who to start tackling this issue - I feel like I am running out of time.

03-21-2009, 03:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
CubicleBailout Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 13	Luck, who you know I am not in middle management, not even in management. From what I have seen at the large fortune 500 company I work for, you really have to be in the in crowd with the senior management. Or you have to be 'the' top performer and really work your tail off. Or get lucky (not in the violating HR rules way ) but in the true sense of Lucky. I interact with 'senior' managers frequently in my job and some of them really are senior, but a lot of them just enjoy the politics, infighting and childlike games - mostly power struggle games. Like Steve has mentioned in his blog and book several times: create and deliver value. I don't think senior managers or even middle managers are on the 'create' side of that equation but on the delivery side. They can enable people to deliver by leading, coaching, etc. It doesn't sound like senior management is what you want though. What are you looking to get out of it? What is driving you in that direction? Is it because that is the only way you see growth right now is to move up the corporate ladder? Could you grow in other ways that would fulfill you? You really don't need to answer these questions here and don't take them personally, just things to think about

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03-10-2009, 12:44 PM	#2 (permalink)
SchoolisHard Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 57	It sounds to me like you are comfortable in middle-management at your current company. You probably have many years of experience in your position, and something inside of you wants you to stay where you feel both safe and competent. Have you considered interviewing at another company in your industry?

03-10-2009, 03:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
RT Wolf Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto, Canuckland Posts: 1,737	The person to read would probably be Brian Tracy. He's written a lot of books and a lot of them are about doing better in jobs. Have you tried talking to the people who made the decision why you keep getting passed over? if you make it clear that you're not looking to pick a fight or prove something, just for feedback so you can improve, they might be willing to give you good feedback.

03-10-2009, 06:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
SimonaRich Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: London, United Kingdom Posts: 912	Untill you see yourself as in the position you would like to have, you will not be able to get it. Try using affirmations that you are worth the position or some other encouraging ones. They will change some limiting beliefs that you have about you being able to cope with the position you want to get.

03-14-2009, 10:39 AM	#6 (permalink)
mbk1382 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6	folks, Thanks for your replies, I know I want to move higher, and that i am qualified. I know the issues is one of "courage" - or lack of and not sure how to build it up. Does any one have any pointers to were I can get tips on affirmations or other ways to move my self closer to my goal? Thanks in advance.

03-16-2009, 10:20 AM	#8 (permalink)
justfiverules Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Japan Posts: 75	OP, In some companies what separates mid from senior management is a combination of political savvy and relationship networking. All other things being equal (as measured by performance evals, 360s etc), there is a certain amount of "board room street smarts" required to gain admission. How do your mentors / experienced managers rate you on these factors? Also, does your company have a career development process? If so, perhaps one approach is to scope out what skills/aptitudes you need to visibly demonstrate that you're ready... and in addition to having these on your 2009 CDP, make a business case for hiring a business/career coach to help you polish whatever rough edges are holding you back. If this company believes in your senior management abilities then they should look at the coaching expense as an investment. You'll have to convince them of that, of course - especially in this tough business climate! Just my 10 yen.

03-23-2009, 01:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
RT Wolf Family Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto, Canuckland Posts: 1,737	Have you tried asking for advice from senior staff of how they got there? Or maybe for mentoring or feedback time? Not to knock the advice here, but I haven't seen anyone who's done what you're trying to do. The advice you'll get from people who've done what you're trying to do may well be very different from what "makes sense".

03-24-2009, 10:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
JackTP Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 30	I think you answered your own question in your post. You did not put up a fight for promotion, you do not see yourself as senior management. I don't want to sound cliche here, but there is some truth that if you dont believe in yourself no one else will, or in my experience, some people may anyway and they become mentors and your greatest inspiration. But they are few around and when you meet people like this, remember to keep contact. I see senior management (without having experience) as not so much based on "expert skill" which it seems you have, but on "people skills". Yes, another one out of the text book! In senior management you will never be hands on as much, so you must learn how to find smart people to trust. Anyway, I suggest spending more time with people in senior management positions, in social settings if you can. See what they have in common. Thats my 2 cents..

Personal Development for Smart PeopleTM Forums

Personal Development for Smart People^TM Forums