What are the benefits of not having a job?

[Aleksander Krstic]

See the title.

Why is Steve so against jobs? Obviously having more income streams is not a worthy excuse for risking going broke and being homeless.

I've read in his post about jobs, that it is also about better experience, etc...
But I haven't completely understood it.

Could you give me your point of view of why not having a job is worth the risk of going broke?

[Raymond Edeh]

Hi All,

If you don't work, things will get worse for you.

There's nothing wrong with having a job but there's certainly something wrong with having a job that doesn't keep keep you excited, happy and makes you fulfilled.


Cheers,
Raymond Edeh

[jthomson71]

It is not so much about having a job per say as it is not doing what you are passionate about and living a life that actually contributes to the betterment of you and society. I don't think Steve or anyone who suggests investing in You Inc, is saying don't have a job. I think the broader picture is find ways to generate income for yourself that can ultimately provide your greater freedom to expierence life and grow as a person and in turn help others do the same. I am a believer that a 9-5 office job is not the way to go and I have made decisions in my life to facilitate that change. It takes time, personal development and growth and a commitment to your success. No one wants someone who can contribute to society to not have a job and become a drag on the society. What people like Steve are suggesting is merely begining to find alternative income streams that make your typical 9-5 job not the only option.

[Eric Roosevelt]

Getting a regular job is probably the best option for most of us. We can't all run our own business.

The important thing is to understand what a job is. By getting a job, you're basically subordinating yourself to higher authorities within a system. Make sure you evaluate how these hierarchical structures could affect your personal freedom, and subsequently your perception of yourself.

[ginkgo]

Are you nuts? You can be fired from a job for any reason or for no reason at all. The governor of Illinois was fired. Rich Dad's father had a prestigious govenment job. He ran for governor of HI and lost. His opponent, the governor, fired him. There are people that do not like Steve Pavlina or Bill Gates but no one can fire them.

Of course a mentally challenged person would not want to be his own boss and others but many would like to be their own boss. One woman told me that if she did not have a job she would be lost with nothing to do so some need a job even if they are rich.

The employer buys your effort at wholesale and resells them at retail. The boss pays you just enough to keep you from quitting and the worker does the minimum work to keep from being fired. If I had a mentally challenged child who had a job, I would brag about him having a job. Your employer can say that if any employee does not say "Hail Hitler" when they see him, they will be fired. Actuallly I am going to fire Bill Gates tomorrow since he never graduated college.

[RT Wolf]

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

Why is Steve so against jobs? Obviously having more income streams is not a worthy excuse for risking going broke and being homeless.

I've read in his post about jobs, that it is also about better experience, etc...
But I haven't completely understood it.

Could you give me your point of view of why not having a job is worth the risk of going broke?

What makes you think that a) there is necessarily a risk of going broke and going homeless, moreso than with a job than in entrepreneurship, and b) that being broke and homeless is less preferable than having a job, or a bad thing at all?

Make sure you're not just living in fear. Sure, things can be unpleasant, but that doesn't mean you should fear them. Have a read here about how I beat that fear:

“I’m Broke and Homeless. Now what?” | Mind-Manual

Deal wtih your fear. Fear blinds so you can't get a good grasp on everything until you do that.

Also, read Your Money or Your Life. Should be able to find it in any library.

Steve's reasons? Most of them seem to be centered around loss of freedom, loss of real expression and definitely lowering of consciousness.

Basically, most places you work, they have to spend as much on you as they pay you (office, rent, equipment, coffee, benefits, insurance, etc). Now, presumably, you make them or save them double your salary or more for you to be a good idea to have around. If you work for yourself, you have a better shot at getting more of the value you actually create instead of half of it. Or not. Who knows. If you accept the above, then it seems kinda like an unfair deal.

[magi13]

the only benefits i understand is that you're free.

the downsides that i understand are, you're broke.

the thing you need to consider is food.

if you can deal with the food issue, the rest will come to place.

i am a skeptic when it comes not to having a job/business/etc. because if you're not responsible with yourself how can you be responsible with respect to society in general?

[stayfly]

working for 50 hours a week (or more) for 50 weeks a year (or more) for 50 years (or more) doesn't really appeal to me

does it appeal to you?

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

See the title.

Why is Steve so against jobs? Obviously having more income streams is not a worthy excuse for risking going broke and being homeless.

I've read in his post about jobs, that it is also about better experience, etc...
But I haven't completely understood it.

Could you give me your point of view of why not having a job is worth the risk of going broke?

So you can try to polyhasic sleep!

Seriously, I listened to something Steve said once in an interview that was awesome. He said in his early 20's he realized he would grow so much more if he did what he feared instead of shying away from the risks. He figured he'd keep on learning from it and grow. Well, now in his late 30's, look at the lifestyle he has, and look at who he has become as a man. Seems that it was worth it, to take all of the risk of going broke (and he did actually go broke and was broke for a while) to learn all the lessons from it.

To me, it's worth going broke if it means becoming a free man who does what he absolutely love to do in life. In fact, it's worth being broke if you're a free man doing what you love doing.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by stayfly

working for 50 hours a week (or more) for 50 weeks a year (or more) for 50 years (or more) doesn't really appeal to me

How many hours you work is quite a separate question from whether you work for a boss or run your own business.

You could jolly well work very long hours doing your own thing.

Or you could work very short hours, as an employee.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

Why is Steve so against jobs?

Possibly because he doesn't know that much about jobs. Don't forget, he hasn't actually had a job for many years (if ever).

Actually, this reminds me about his comments about polyamoury. He says that people who haven't tried it are really not in a position to say much about it.

I agree.

But I think the same applies to jobs. People who haven't tried having a job are really not in a position to say much about having a job.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ginkgo

The employer buys your effort at wholesale and resells them at retail. The boss pays you just enough to keep you from quitting and the worker does the minimum work to keep from being fired.

And I get paid as much by my employers as I succeed in squeezing out of them.

Let me tell you about my last 4 jobs.

I worked at Company A.

Company B offered me a higher salary. I moved to Company B.

Later Company A approached me. I rejoined Company A for a higher salary.

After six months, Company B approached me to rejoin. I rejoined Company B for a higher salary.

In other words, I moved from A to B back to A and then back to B, and my salary just went higher and higher and higher each time. All in the space of 4.5 years (from the time I first joined A), my monthly salary increased by slightly more than 300%.

Why? One reason is that I make a constant effort to keep my skills up-to-date and relevant to the market and all the latest challenges & developments in the industry. Then the market will desire me. I work for the highest bidder.

(Of course, I also have some other considerations, like health benefits, corporate culture etc).

Having a job doesn't mean chaining yourself to a single employer for the rest of your life. In fact, I don't see it having a job as very different from running your own business, and serving one client at a time (the current employer, being your client at that time).

[stayfly]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

How many hours you work is quite a separate question from whether you work for a boss or run your own business.

You could jolly well work very long hours doing your own thing.

Or you could work very short hours, as an employee.

working 50 hours a week, 50 weeks a year for 50 years either as an employee OR running own business isn't appealing to me.

it's true that working that much for someone else is usually worse than working that much for yourself/your own business but in many cases they are equally bad

[stayfly]

Originally Posted by Acting Like Godot

Possibly because he doesn't know that much about jobs. Don't forget, he hasn't actually had a job for many years (if ever).

Actually, this reminds me about his comments about polyamoury. He says that people who haven't tried it are really not in a position to say much about it.

I agree.

But I think the same applies to jobs. People who haven't tried having a job are really not in a position to say much about having a job.

nah I think it's more about the MASSIVE amount of time and effort required to participate in traditional employment. this time could be much better spent doing other, more meaningful things.

and also that traditional employment rarely provides substantial residual income.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by stayfly

nah I think it's more about the MASSIVE amount of time and effort required to participate in traditional employment.

As I mentioned, you could spend very little time & effort, or you could spend a lot of time & effort, regardless of whether you are employed or self-employed.

Eg Steve may spend 5 hours a week thinking of what to write next for his blog, or 40 hours or 100 hours. It's up to him.

If he spends too little time and thereby produces fewer articles or less-useful or less-insightful articles, then in time his readership will also shrink and his income also shrivels.

When looking for a job, it is also up to you to go search for a job that allows you to work the kind of hours you want. Eg my wife works only three days a week, and 1.5 of those 3 days, she works from home.

and also that traditional employment rarely provides substantial residual income.

How much you earn is again quite a different question from whether you are employed or self-employed.

It is possible to earn a lot if you are self-employed.
It is possible to earn very little if you are self-employed.
It is possible to earn a lot if you are employed.
It is possible to earn very little if you are employed.

There are so many examples of each of the above permutations that it's hardly possible to draw any generalisations at all.

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by stayfly

nah I think it's more about the MASSIVE amount of time and effort required to participate in traditional employment. this time could be much better spent doing other, more meaningful things.

There's an implicit assumption in your comment that traditional employment can't be meaningful.

Again it is entirely up to the individual to find a job (or be self-employed) in an area that he finds meaningful.

You may for instance find it meaningful to help sick people; or teach young children; or protect the environment; or find the cure for cancer; or whatever.

Well, doctors, teachers, wildlife park rangers; scientists etc etc are also employees.

[magi13]

there is one thing that these view does not coincide with the rest of society that i find detrimental. (do not seek a job)

it should be common knowledge that people in general rely on each other and support each other in a society, every job is important because the results of each job done affects society as a whole.

we need scientists, producers, economists, lawyers, police officers, politicians and etc.

these people provide the backbone of our society. they provide food, clothing and shelter. and if everyone of these choose to no longer work with respect to their jobs, our society will dwindle and in effect, we'll have chaos.

i do hope that people considered these little things before deciding to drop everything, and i am sure if you do decide to drop out. your alternative or option should be for the benefit of society in general.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by magi13

we need scientists, producers, economists, lawyers, police officers, politicians and etc.

I posted a topic about how would we survive without those jobs a while ago, but noone replied to it.

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Aleksander Krstic

I posted a topic about how would we survive without those jobs a while ago, but noone replied to it.

can you tell us the gist of it?

i'd like to understand how? because i don't want the world to return back to the dark ages. at least if i could understand your view then thing will be clearer.

with the present day scenario, the number of population and the cultural difference we all have.

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by magi13

can you tell us the gist of it?

i'd like to understand how? because i don't want the world to return back to the dark ages. at least if i could understand your view then thing will be clearer.

with the present day scenario, the number of population and the cultural difference we all have.

I didn't write a solution to it, but a question.

[magi13]

i guess they don't have an answer to our question.

[alexplatups]

Hello,

there are no real formulas in life, there are only general guidelines

and there are fundamentals and basics

when it comes to working for someone, or working for yourself, in reality
this depends on what you want and what kind of person you are

I have been self-employed for about 15 years, since I was 23, and it has
been more or less okay

but I would change it all in a heartbeat for a job in an Amsterdam coffeeshop

in fact, this is something I am considering doing, since it has been my dream
since I was 18...lol

and of course, I will work on my online businesses every day, and my offline
businesses will be left running, but I have decided that I will pursue this life
long dream of mine within a few months

since I have realized if I keep doing what I am doing now, my dream will not
be brought into reality

and lying on my deathbed...I will think that I should have went for it, and
tried it at least

...this is a simple desire...but it has been with me all my life, and I decided
now is the time to make it a reality

later

Alex Platups

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by magi13

i guess they don't have an answer to our question.

Have a little more patience, they'll post.

[magi13]

there is also a possibility that they themselves don't know the answer.

imagine if everyone was no longer working, we won't have the net/cars/fuel/malls/electricity/ and other things.

a lot of people will die.

[ndpistonfan]

I wrestle with this have-a-job vs. have-no-job-and-work-for-myself thing all the time. Maybe it's fear, maybe it's I'm getting married in May and my fiance really wants me to have one. Anyhow, I think the answer is personal for each and everyone of us. Some of us are simply better off working for others, whether we know it or not. Some of us are quietly desperate entreprenuers who need a little experience and alot of support. Like any absolute, I think it's wrong to say one way or the other for sure. You really need to do what's right for you.

[magi13]

Originally Posted by ndpistonfan

I wrestle with this have-a-job vs. have-no-job-and-work-for-myself thing all the time. Maybe it's fear, maybe it's I'm getting married in May and my fiance really wants me to have one. Anyhow, I think the answer is personal for each and everyone of us. Some of us are simply better off working for others, whether we know it or not. Some of us are quietly desperate entreprenuers who need a little experience and alot of support. Like any absolute, I think it's wrong to say one way or the other for sure. You really need to do what's right for you.

good post.

I myself believe that, there should be a balance between the work force and the others.

One person is just a part of the whole after all. If that one disappears the rest will live on.

[funchy]

I don't have a job right now. I was laid off through no fault of my own. After a month of it, I can conclude that not having a job SUCKS. I have time to do all these things I wanted to do, but not a cent of the needed money to do them.

I have so much free time on my hands that I sleep in. I make excuses not to get things done. Nobody cares what I do all day, so I'm not really driven to do much of anything.

I miss the social interaction of a workplace. I feel isolated, like the world is all happening around me and I'm stuck at home trying to get caught up on doing laundry & chores. I had personal projects I always wanted to do, but with an infinite amount of time on my hands now, I feel like I'll get around to them whenever (which means procrastination).

When I am out with friends, I miss not being able to indulge and get what I really want when we dine out or go shopping. They don't understand when I have to decline their invite to a fancy restaurant. The friends who do know my situation keep trying to pay the tab at the restaurant, and it hurts me. I argue with them. It takes away my dignity.

In the meantime I am trying to do odd jobs. Being self employed *is* a job, and I can earn some money doing several smaller jobs for others that would be nice.

[magi13]

@funchy, that's reality.

[stayfly]

people in this thread seem to be assuming that the only options to receive income is to be an employee or to be self employed.

there's a third option called "financial freedom", whereby your income from investments and assets exceeds your expenses. I will have achieved this level of wealth within 5 years and once achieved, I will never have to work another day of my life. Any one interested in this option, please read "Your Money Or Your Life", "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and/or "The Four Hour Workweek".

[magi13]

Originally Posted by stayfly

people in this thread seem to be assuming that the only options to receive income is to be an employee or to be self employed.

there's a third option called "financial freedom", whereby your income from investments and assets exceeds your expenses. I will have achieved this level of wealth within 5 years and once achieved, I will never have to work another day of my life. Any one interested in this option, please read "Your Money Or Your Life", "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and/or "The Four Hour Workweek".

Sweet. This is a good answer to my previous question.