To Sell or Not To Sell

[TheAndySan]

I was hired a week ago to sell Rainbow air purifiers. No, I'm not trying to sell you guys one . I took the job not only to pay back the $30,000 worth of debt that I've accumulated (mostly from college, some credit cards, lawyer fees, etc), but to improve my public speaking skills.

I want to improve my public speaking skills so that I can start my web 2.0 consultation business. Just as businesses have helped other businesses go online back in the 90's, I would be helping set up businesses to get into web 2.0. By web 2.0, I mean blogs and social media like Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, etc.

Although I dislike salespeople because they can be manipulative, when I went through some of the training it seemed like they were a good company to work for. However, something came up that clashes with my personal values.

The big thing is the process of selling. My company gave me an outline of what I'm supposed to say to the customer in their house and over the phone. Although the outline can help me in figuaring out what to say to the customer, I find what I have to say and do around the customer to be very manipulative and pressuring to the customer.

I can't decide whether or not to quit this job only a week into it or continue to see if it gets better.

Although I want to quit because of the tactics I'm supposed to use in selling, I fear that I might be acting out of my fear of speaking in front of people.

What should I do?

P.S: There is a Toastmasters International just a town away from where I live. I'm going to go there to get help with speaking around people (my mom wants to go as well so we could carpool together).

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

If the job conflicts with your values I would quit. As you've stated, you can get the public speaking experience through Toastmasters. The cold calling skills and dealing with rejection that you could learn from a sales job could potentially be helpful but again, I think there must be ways to learn those skills as well without sacrificing your values. As for the financial aspect, there are other jobs that you could do to help you pay off your debt as well as strategies that you can implement that will help you reduce it much more quickly.

Firstly, I would take time to distinguish if your reason for wanting to quit is in fact the tactics or your fear. It could also be a bit of both. If it's mainly fear, then I'd say stick the job out at least for a while. If you find that you truly do feel badly about the way you must operate to be in the business, then look for something else more aligned with your values. I bet you could even find such a job that will also help with your speaking skills.

[Rebecca800]

I think if you do a job that seriously conflicts with your values you may end up unconsciously sabotaging it. At the very least, you will find it hard to manipulate people the way your employer expects you to and so make less sales than your colleagues (worse if you are working on commission).

So whether you are a week in or a year in, if you have an issue with the job, it's probably best to start looking elsewhere.

And congrats on facing your fear and doing the Toastmaster thing. You show real courage.

[Savage]

In an absolute sense, if a job conflicts with truth and encourages you to do anything deceptive or manipulative, you're turning your back on growth. The job will hurt you more than help you. Quitting is the best option. It doesn't matter what your values are. Truth is an absolute. You can never hope to grow and improve by succumbing to falsehood and denial, regardless of the slick packaging.

Toastmasters is a much better environment to learn good communication skills. They have a manual on persuasive speaking with 5 projects you can do. But the material is honest and non-manipulative.

I get the sense that you took this job as a delay tactic. You may say it's an indirect way to work on your primary goal. But it's really just procrastination. I think that deep down, you know that.

Go after your primary goal directly, regardless of your current skill level. You'll learn what you need to learn along the way much faster than by taking a side job. You'll also build more courage that way.

[ginkgo]

I started to sell them but asked a salesman for advice on doing it or a job. He said get a job and I did. Big mistake. I should have sold them. They first (for training) try to sell to friends. People I called said that there is no way in hell that they would buy one. But I told them that I got paid just to show it to them.

One couple bought it and loved it. The wife got her sister to buy it. A year later they told me they loved it. Then I showed it to an ashram. They were not going to buy it but would let me do the presentation so they could help me make money. They bought the Rainbow. Another couple I showed the husband sat in the other room and the wife wanted it but he did not since he did not see the presentation.

On the other hand last week 600,000 people filed for unemployment for the first time last week-- the most ever. Google is firing hundreds. This makes it harder to sell but are you sure you can get a job with so many being fired??? One guy who did well selling them was a minister. Now they do not care what you say, just that you sell them. You are an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR.

Also our whole society of sales is based on tricking stupid people. They do not sell an item for $300. They sell it for a penny less or a nickel less. Do you pick up a penny or nickel lying on the street? I don't. But $299.95 is two hundred dollars and change. It is not $300 if you are stupid. When I said this on a forum, it was removed. Even the sitesell.com that Pavlina promotes is not $300. It is a whole dollar less.

The couple and ashram that bought are vegetarians and very ethical. It is a very ethical product. It is a vacuum cleaner that happens to clean the air instead of making it dirtier. Also you do not need to cut down millions of trees to make the vaccuum bags. No vaccuum bags. If you get unethical prospects, they will not buy them. The people in the ashram are celibate and took a vow of poverty just like monks.

I have been a distributor for a company selling herbs from the Amazon raiforest for 10 years. We work with the tribes there and are helping to save the rainforest. One guy in my upline is the top money earner making over $40,000 monthly. My best distributor and I think that he is a big jerk. Why? He is the salesman type. He basically hates everyone and wants to con them. It is like debating. Sometimes you have to argue for something that you are against (not for). The good debater can do that. Obama was on the debate team. The good salemen can sell ice cream to Eskimos. But you do not have to be part of their religion. You can be in the world but not of it.

[TheAndySan]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

In an absolute sense, if a job conflicts with truth and encourages you to do anything deceptive or manipulative, you're turning your back on growth. The job will hurt you more than help you. Quitting is the best option. It doesn't matter what your values are. Truth is an absolute. You can never hope to grow and improve by succumbing to falsehood and denial, regardless of the slick packaging.

Toastmasters is a much better environment to learn good communication skills. They have a manual on persuasive speaking with 5 projects you can do. But the material is honest and non-manipulative.

I get the sense that you took this job as a delay tactic. You may say it's an indirect way to work on your primary goal. But it's really just procrastination. I think that deep down, you know that.

Go after your primary goal directly, regardless of your current skill level. You'll learn what you need to learn along the way much faster than by taking a side job. You'll also build more courage that way.

Now that I think about it, the reason I've gone through several jobs in the past 6 years is because they conflict with truth, love, and power.

I'm manipulating people (either directly or indirectly) to buy products (whether it's Rainbows, cheeseburgers, or groceries). As a result, I feel guilty about it and disconnect myself while I'm working. Finally, because I'm disconnected from truth and love (note to self: don't make a Team Rocket reference ), I have become easy to manipulate and therefore relinquish my power. It's a dirty, dirty cycle. Meowth, that's right (dammit!).

I don't like salespeople because they are horribly misaligned with truth. I thought that selling Rainbows would be different because I like the product. The product works and I would be selling it to people who need it like people with allergies, asthma, or people who want clean air in their house. I'm not selling bubble gum to Ethiopians here . I felt like I would be making a difference in people's lives and delivering value. However, the means that I would deliver that value are not aligned with both truth and my own personal values. Therefore, I am not delivering real value.

The reason I was looking for a new job is because I want to pay off my debts (I can't attend college without paying them off) and go back to college. Most people go to college so that they can get a good-paying job. I want to go back because I want to learn and make connections with like-minded people. Because of this, I don't want to do online courses, live off-campus, or take one class per semester/quarter. I can't establish good connections with people if I remove myself from them.

After college, I want to live in Japan for at least a year. Now, I know what you're thinking: "Why don't you just hop on a plane and go there?" Simply going to Japan isn't enough for me. I want to fully immerse myself by learning the language, culture, and making connections with people. As far as spoken Japanese goes, I'm slightly better than someone who learns by watching anime without having a basic understanding of Japanese sentence structure. I understand several words, but usually I can't interpret a complete sentence. When it comes to written Japanese, I'm completely lost.

Also, the vast majority of English-speaking expatriates start making an income by teaching English to Japanese people. By law, you are required to have a 4-year degree in order to teach English in Japan. I wouldn't mind teaching English, but I wouldn't want to do it for a long period of time. I would much rather be on Japanese television, either as part of the cast or as a special guest.

I was deeply inspired to do this by my favorite guitar player Marty Friedman. He left the band Megadeth when it was at its commercial peak to persue a completely different musical career in Japan. Now, he's insanely famous from all of his television and musical appearances in Japan.

Essentially, I would like to learn Japanese, live in Japan, and get involved with Japanese television & music. I would also like to make more connections with people.

I was going to say that it was too early for me to quit my job and continue working for at least a month, but now I see that I should quit now because I'm wasting my time with it.

Wow, this reply was a lot longer than I thought it was gonna be .

[Savage]

My younger brother moved to Japan several years ago. He got paid to do so. He started by teaching English classes to Japanese students, which covered his expenses. He had to take a big pay cut to do that because he used to work as a network admin in L.A., and teaching English didn't pay as well. But he was happy with the decision.

He studied Japanese while he was there, and his co-workers helped him with the cultural adaptation.

After a couple years, he knew Japanese well enough to get a job in Tokyo as a network engineer. I think he also bought a condo in Tokyo.

He also sings in clubs and plays guitar. He's been on TV in Japan a couple times for his music. His website is �題� �笑�音楽 if you want to check it out. There are some videos of him on his site singing in Japanese.

In March he's getting married to a Japanese girl. Erin and the kids and I will be at the wedding.

It sounds like my brother has already done much of what you'd like to do.

[danas]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

He's been on TV in Japan a couple times for his music. His website is �題� �笑�音楽 if you want to check it out. There are some videos of him on his site singing in Japanese.

haha youre brother's a funny guy great!

[TheAndySan]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

My younger brother moved to Japan several years ago. He got paid to do so. He started by teaching English classes to Japanese students, which covered his expenses. He had to take a big pay cut to do that because he used to work as a network admin in L.A., and teaching English didn't pay as well. But he was happy with the decision.

He studied Japanese while he was there, and his co-workers helped him with the cultural adaptation.

After a couple years, he knew Japanese well enough to get a job in Tokyo as a network engineer. I think he also bought a condo in Tokyo.

He also sings in clubs and plays guitar. He's been on TV in Japan a couple times for his music. His website is �題� �笑�音楽 if you want to check it out. There are some videos of him on his site singing in Japanese.

In March he's getting married to a Japanese girl. Erin and the kids and I will be at the wedding.

It sounds like my brother has already done much of what you'd like to do.

I watched a couple of his videos, and he's a pretty funny guy! You're right, he has done much of what I want to do.

The big thing that I'm struggling with is trying to find a way to make money in Japan without having a 4-year degree. Do you guys have any suggestions?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by TheAndySan

The big thing that I'm struggling with is trying to find a way to make money in Japan without having a 4-year degree. Do you guys have any suggestions?

If a Japanese teenager can do it, surely you can find a way. I doubt you lack the creativity to figure it out.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Steve, I just checked out your brother's website and I looked at the Youtube video. It was pretty funny. He seems to have a good sense of self-depreciating humor. But he's not going to take it from anyone else.

Sorry to get off topic, but when it comes to looking for a truthful, powerful, and loving job, it will take time. And you still need to cover expenses while you look for a job that fits all those requirements. I would work part time and spend the rest of your time either looking for or creating a job that works for you on all levels.

[SimonaRich]

If you like the company, is it possible for you to still work there but be kind to people without using their techniques, or will they have some way to find this out?

[TheAndySan]

Originally Posted by SimonaRich

If you like the company, is it possible for you to still work there but be kind to people without using their techniques, or will they have some way to find this out?

When it comes to the presentation of the Rainbow, I can pretty much do my own thing. One of the things that bothers me is the method of getting new leads.

Basically, I offer a free gift (a small air purifier) if the presentees call at least 2 financially comfortable homeowning couples and set up a presentation. I feel that I'm asking too much of them to bother their friends and family for a free gift.

It is my belief that if someone wants what I'm selling, then they will contact me. I'd prefer to put my contact information out there and if people are interested in what I'm selling, then they'll come to me.

For example, I used to promote my blog by commenting like crazy and going to forums and shamelessly self-promoting (i.e. check out my new blog at TheAndySan.com). Now, I know that if I'm presenting something of value and if people are interested, then I will generate more traffic to my site. All I do now as far as promoting goes is leaving a link to my site in my forum & comment signature.

It's the difference between presenting something of value and just plain badgering people.

[manifest40]

AndySan,

It sounds like Japan is calling you, and you'll figure out how to make it work one way or another.

In the meantime, it seems like you've got a number of beliefs operating in your relationship to the act of selling and this specific Rainbow selling job. I've found selling to be actually quite profound in helping me process and release all kinds of unhelpful beliefs that I didn't even realize I held. The key is to believe in what you're selling. If you don't think these purifiers are actually useful, then the conclusions you've expressed make sense and I'd echo others' comments to get out of this selling job as fast as possible.

However, if you think these purifiers are helpful and genuinely contribute value to others, then this selling opportunity might be a great way for you to work through a whole set of beliefs you have about people, yourself, selling, value, etc.

Here's one of the beliefs you have around selling that you just stated outright:

"It is my belief that if someone wants what I'm selling, then they will contact me. I'd prefer to put my contact information out there and if people are interested in what I'm selling, then they'll come to me."

One of Steve's posts that I really loved discussed the two ways a business generates income: 1. Creating Value and 2. Delivering that Value.

Like it or not, delivering value is part of the deal of getting the word out about the great things you do that others would love to welcome into their lives. Someone might contact you if they want what you're selling and know you're selling it, but most of the time, people just don't know that you're actually selling something they want.

So, obviously, do what you think will best serve your highest aims, but take a look at this selling thing and get all the learning you can out of it while it's happening for you. You might be able to take a ton of new lessons with you to college or Japan or wherever you head next.

[ginkgo]

As mentioned in my above post, people do not know that they want the Rainbow until they see the presentation. If someone wants me to buy Microsoft (the whole company) for $120 billion, I need to see a presentation on it. They need the whole story. The way we did it 30 years ago is the company would call people and offer people a free case of beer if they would watch the presentation. Then they gave us the leads.

Most people make money since they need it but are not doing what they want to do. If someone does not want or need a rainbow then do not sell it to them. You are getting paid to present the information. That was my attitude. The couple that I sold it to had a son with allergies and needed it. The job of the rainbow company (regardless of salesmen hype) is to let everyone see the presentation so they can determine if they want to vacuum and clean out the dirt before it goes into the air. Or if they want to vacuum up dirt and put that dirt into the air that they breath which also increases pollution in the world.

When I sold it there was no effort to go green-- 30 years ago. Now there is an effort to be more envirenmentally friendly. If you are wealthy then do whatever you want. Pay a prostitute (in Nevada where it is legal) $80,000 to have sex with you. But if you need to make money now, selling Rainbows is a great way to do it. I guess you know those guys work several hours a day only and make lots of money. Also they have no boss. They are their own boss. They work or take off when they want.

If you are looking for peace, happpiness or enlightenment, you will not find it in a job, business or anything in the world. Peace is inside of you.

[borisg]

need a website...clearly the talent runs in the blood

[Eric Roosevelt]

I worked for a while as a salesperson, and I had a similar dilemma. It wasn't that the team leaders were forcing us to say anything in particular, but they let it pass unnoticed when people manipulated the customers in various ways, so that became a normal thing to do. It's really hard to be the only guy who uses the ethical/truthful approach when you're surrounded by people who are just focusing laser-like on the money. It's not impossible, but it's hard. Well, I did my best but decided to quit after just a few months. I quit not only because of the ethical aspect, but also because selling can be a hell of a frustrating job. And the frustration is only multiplied when you don't believe in the product you're selling.

My advice, despite all this, is that you try the job. Continue for a little while, and try to remain as truthful as possible. It's very hard to make an evaluation when you're still new to the job (as you mentioned, it may be that you have other conflicting feelings, such as fear of talking in front of people).

[TheAndySan]

Originally Posted by manifest40

AndySan,

It sounds like Japan is calling you, and you'll figure out how to make it work one way or another.

In the meantime, it seems like you've got a number of beliefs operating in your relationship to the act of selling and this specific Rainbow selling job. I've found selling to be actually quite profound in helping me process and release all kinds of unhelpful beliefs that I didn't even realize I held. The key is to believe in what you're selling. If you don't think these purifiers are actually useful, then the conclusions you've expressed make sense and I'd echo others' comments to get out of this selling job as fast as possible.

However, if you think these purifiers are helpful and genuinely contribute value to others, then this selling opportunity might be a great way for you to work through a whole set of beliefs you have about people, yourself, selling, value, etc.

Here's one of the beliefs you have around selling that you just stated outright:

"It is my belief that if someone wants what I'm selling, then they will contact me. I'd prefer to put my contact information out there and if people are interested in what I'm selling, then they'll come to me."

One of Steve's posts that I really loved discussed the two ways a business generates income: 1. Creating Value and 2. Delivering that Value.

Like it or not, delivering value is part of the deal of getting the word out about the great things you do that others would love to welcome into their lives. Someone might contact you if they want what you're selling and know you're selling it, but most of the time, people just don't know that you're actually selling something they want.

So, obviously, do what you think will best serve your highest aims, but take a look at this selling thing and get all the learning you can out of it while it's happening for you. You might be able to take a ton of new lessons with you to college or Japan or wherever you head next.

I do believe that the air purifiers I'm selling are useful, however I do not agree with the hefty price tag and the procedure of selling.

I think that another reason that I'm conflicted with this job is that although the product does present value, the product itself is not something that I'm very passionate about. If I were selling anime products or guitars, then I believe I would be more into it. Also, having an extensive knowledge of the product instead of looking up every little thing whenever someone asks a question saves time and makes the customer feel confident in buying.

Originally Posted by ginkgo

As mentioned in my above post, people do not know that they want the Rainbow until they see the presentation. If someone wants me to buy Microsoft (the whole company) for $120 billion, I need to see a presentation on it. They need the whole story. The way we did it 30 years ago is the company would call people and offer people a free case of beer if they would watch the presentation. Then they gave us the leads.

Most people make money since they need it but are not doing what they want to do. If someone does not want or need a rainbow then do not sell it to them. You are getting paid to present the information. That was my attitude. The couple that I sold it to had a son with allergies and needed it. The job of the rainbow company (regardless of salesmen hype) is to let everyone see the presentation so they can determine if they want to vacuum and clean out the dirt before it goes into the air. Or if they want to vacuum up dirt and put that dirt into the air that they breath which also increases pollution in the world.

When I sold it there was no effort to go green-- 30 years ago. Now there is an effort to be more envirenmentally friendly. If you are wealthy then do whatever you want. Pay a prostitute (in Nevada where it is legal) $80,000 to have sex with you. But if you need to make money now, selling Rainbows is a great way to do it. I guess you know those guys work several hours a day only and make lots of money. Also they have no boss. They are their own boss. They work or take off when they want.

If you are looking for peace, happpiness or enlightenment, you will not find it in a job, business or anything in the world. Peace is inside of you.

Although the Rainmate (a tabletop air purifier) is a good product in its own right, I feel like I'm being deceptive in presenting it. You see, when I go to do a presentation, the presentee can get the Rainmate as a free gift if they set me up with at least 2 confirmed appointments. Yes it's nice to offer a free gift, but it seems so insincere.

Actually, one of the things that I love about the Rainbow is that it's environmentally friendly. Just think of all of the bags, both vacuum and trash bags (especially if you own pets), that you'll save.

I do agree with you on putting the presentation above the sale. However, it can be a looong time before the end of the month rolls around (I get paid $2,200 for doing 40 qualified shows in a month). If I make a sale, then I get paid my commission for that week.

Originally Posted by Eric Roosevelt

I worked for a while as a salesperson, and I had a similar dilemma. It wasn't that the team leaders were forcing us to say anything in particular, but they let it pass unnoticed when people manipulated the customers in various ways, so that became a normal thing to do. It's really hard to be the only guy who uses the ethical/truthful approach when you're surrounded by people who are just focusing laser-like on the money. It's not impossible, but it's hard. Well, I did my best but decided to quit after just a few months. I quit not only because of the ethical aspect, but also because selling can be a hell of a frustrating job. And the frustration is only multiplied when you don't believe in the product you're selling.

My advice, despite all this, is that you try the job. Continue for a little while, and try to remain as truthful as possible. It's very hard to make an evaluation when you're still new to the job (as you mentioned, it may be that you have other conflicting feelings, such as fear of talking in front of people).

This is very true.

Although I do get paid for presenting the Rainbow as I mentioned before, getting leads for sales is pretty tough for me.

I tried calling one of my neighbors today to see if he wanted to set up an appointment, and he hung up on me. He didn't know who I really was; all I told him about myself is that my name is Andy and I'm from Aero Dynamics in Decatur (which is true).

Since I owe a lot of money to Sallie Mae, I've been hounded daily by their calls. It was an interesting experience to be on the other side of the phone, but I felt wrong doing it. I felt like I was invading his house.

Even though I posted on my blog Thursday that I'm quitting my job, I had time over the weekend to think about what would happen when I turn in my demo Rainbow and officially quit. I would have virtually no money, a car that's on the verge of dying, and resuming my passive lifestyle.

For the moment, I've decided to continue this job. However, I'm gonna do things the right way. I'm going to be honest with the presentees instead of giving them the business and trying to hustle them for leads and sales.

I don't want to do this for more than a year, but it'll at least allow me to buy a newer car or get the one I have fixed. I will also have the budget to live on my own.

I want to move somewhere out west. I'm thinking Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, Las Vegas, San Francisco, or their surrounding areas. Yes, I still want to move to Japan, but Japan's not the only place in the world that I want to live in.

[TheAndySan]

Just when I thought it would be fine continuing to sell the Rainbow units, I want to stop doing it again. Why can't I make up my own mind already?!

Here are my pros and cons of selling Rainbows.

Pros:
- Will help me improve my social skills.

- Has the potential for me to make more money than I ever have before.

- The product presents genuine value to those who need it.

- The Rainbow saves customers a considerable amount of money over time.

- Rainbows are pro-green (environmentally friendly).

Cons:
- The Rainbows are insanely expensive, thus decreasing my chances of making a sale.

- When information is mearly a click away, why would anyone bother to have someone come to their house to give a 2-hour presentation on the Rainbow? I wouldn't, unless I really wanted to buy.

- With my car close to death, I'm concerned about how long I can drive around selling Rainbows and if I can make the money to fix my car before it goes kaput. This is a very important concern of mine.

- My network is very small and the people in it are either financially unable or unwilling to spend $2,000 for the Rainbow or they don't need the Rainbow.

- I'm just not that passionate about selling Rainbows. They have many good qualities, but I don't have the drive to go out there and sell them like I would selling something I'm into, such as anime products or guitars.

[TheAndySan]

Just a quick update.

I turned in my Rainbow kit so that I wouldn't be tempted to try to sell them again. I'm done with them!

Earlier today, I wanted to give it one more shot just to be sure. I called up two people; one of them wasn't home and the other said that they weren't interested.

I'm sure that if I knew more local people, then I would be able to have more presentations and potentially more sales, but I don't.

[medinaphoto1]

I am horrible at selling too. I own my own business doing Wedding Photography. My hope is that my passion for what I do and my personality will come out and 'sell' my work instead of a bunch of sales techniques. Couples come in, I share my work and my passion and then they leave...without booking. Some call back a week later and book me, some email me and say they went with another Photographer. I know I can be all things to all people, but I did listen to a sales webinar from one of bridal sites 'THEKNOT.COM' where they said things like "Only ask questions that you know the answer to and the answer would be in the affirmative, because if you ask questions that the answer is NO, you are getting the couple or person to think negatively and subconsciously she is being prepped not to hire you or your services' well that messed me all up- I tried to be more "salesy" and I cam across as nervous (so my Wife said) The couple happened to be with a wedding planner that I have worked with before. I called her up and apologize and told her about the webinar and how I must of come across as a jerk or dork or something- she said the couple loved me and was booking-
It was not because of the sales techniques that is for sure- anyway. I used to 'sell' real estate- I completely sucked at that- so I guess my point is- if you find your passion and it happens to include selling, you will be able to sell yourself/ services in a way that works for you and still get results.