Are people really making $35,000 a month?

[kf4qhk]

First of all, let me say that I am NOT interested in any of these MLM business opportunities. They are not my passion, so, for me to pursue them, for the sake of something as worthless (compared to other areas of my life) as money, would be against my nature.

That being said, I see links for people's blogs, websites, and the like, saying that they're making $35,000 or so a week/month/day, and while I know that the majority of this is typical MLM propaganda, I want to know if anyone here has been successful in doing it. I know the top of these "pyramids" typically do very well, but, after one of two steps down, the results traditionally dimish.

Thanks.

Jeremy

[ConquerSelf]

I think you answered your own question. I know alot of people who pursue MLM businesses and I have found there are two types of people, just like in any business. The first, are the people who devote everything and passionately pursue this sort of thing. The second, is the person who is usually too lazy and more or less got duped into starting by the solicited fantasy of a million dollars made in the next three hours, with no expended effort of course. So you have the flakers, and the hard workers. I have known both. Out of the hard workers, barely any of them make more than a average income. NONE of the people I know are making more than $10k a month.

I believe there are big earners out there in MLM, but they are certainly far and few. I personally don't think it's an ideal way to accumulate wealth. The whole business model is to get everyone on Earth to buy their products. It is brilliant marketing, but it only REALLY benefits the corporate execs/owners. For the MLM individual 'business owners', it is useless. You are providing no real value to anyone.

To me, just making money doing virtually nothing is useless. Someone very wise once told me that money is no motivation for anything. I'm addicted to business because of the relationships, the volatility, the negotiation, and the pure fun. That is why I also consider myself a lightworker because ultimately, I want to produce something great that will have a positive impact on others. That is what I think.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by ConquerSelf

The whole business model is to get everyone on Earth to buy their products. It is brilliant marketing, but it only REALLY benefits the corporate execs/owners. For the MLM individual 'business owners', it is useless. You are providing no real value to anyone.

To me, just making money doing virtually nothing is useless. Someone very wise once told me that money is no motivation for anything. I'm addicted to business because of the relationships, the volatility, the negotiation, and the pure fun. That is why I also consider myself a lightworker because ultimately, I want to produce something great that will have a positive impact on others. That is what I think.

I do pretty well with network marketing, especially comparatively to the hours I work. In general I make the equivalent of $240 dollars per hour, but the problem is its consistency. Which makes it a gread personal development business, I need to cultivate the habits that can turn that into a consistent income.

While I appreciate your view, I think you have mistaken the business model. The business model is one based on distribution, not getting everyone to buy your product. You are looking for a few key people that will bring in a big amount of distributors. As for providing no value, I am not sure where you get that. I provide a tremendous amount of value and positive energy to the people I network with, and network marketing is all about people, and I can guarantee you 100% that the people who are making $35,000 a month, are the ones thinking the least about what they are going to get out of it, and more about what they can do to help other people.

I m actually surprised at how many people in the PD community here have a sour taste of MLM without having looked at it a little closer than the hearsay/mlm stories told by people who were never in the industry.

I would wager everything I own that 90% of people who trash network marketing fall into one of a few categories.

1. People who have never been in network marketing

2. People who have been in it, and quit before 5 years time (the average time it take to get a business going)

3. People who refused to take responsibility for what was happening in their business ("this isnt working FOR me")

Theres plenty of ways to positively affect peoples lives with NM. In fact, check out Chicken SOup for the Network Marketers Soul, which has some very positive and uplifting stories.

I think its the perfect business model honestly, especially for a lightworker.

[Interpreneur]

Originally Posted by Lucas

1. People who have never been in network marketing

2. People who have been in it, and quit before 5 years time (the average time it take to get a business going)

3. People who refused to take responsibility for what was happening in their business ("this isnt working FOR me")

3 bullets right out of the Amway/Quixtar bible (not that there's anything wrong with that)

[Brutha]

I believe there are big earners out there in MLM, but they are certainly far and few. I personally don't think it's an ideal way to accumulate wealth. The whole business model is to get everyone on Earth to buy their products. It is brilliant marketing, but it only REALLY benefits the corporate execs/owner

You could say the same about any marketing or sales job.
Whether you really produce value in a marketing or sales job depends on whether the product you promote provides value to people.

If you create something great and have nobody to market your product, you probably won't make much money.

I personally know in real life one person who makes their money with MLM and another who makes his money with a non MLM website.
I don't think that either of them makes $35k per month (I don't know exact figures) but they both life with a lot of free time.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by Interpreneur

3 bullets right out of the Amway/Quixtar bible (not that there's anything wrong with that)

I never considered Amway or Quixtar, but these seem to be the common links in all the negatively charged people I have come across in my time in the MLM industry.

Personally the greatest part of MLM is that it reflects who you become. You don't start making money until you truly desire to help other people. If you just want t help yourself, then you will attract the wrong types of people into your organization.

Again, I am always surprised at the negativity, in this of all forums, over a business model that promotes such personal growth, responsibility, business savvy, learning and helping other people.

"You can get everything you want in life, if you just help enough other people get what they want." - Zig Ziglar

[borntosucceed]

I have been involved with 3 MLMs and totally agree with Lucas. I am still learning the business, but I see the longer I do it, the better I get - the more I earn. Simple equation.

The first MLM business I got sucked in, the product looked great but the market wasn't ready. It was tough going and the worst thing was you first look for people that you know to join and then they have problems with the product, which leaves a sour taste.

Second one I thought I try the product first as there was a lot of hype about the company. Ordered product and realised it doesn't hold what it promised so I stopped the business before I even begun.

Third time lucky, now I found a product which holds up what it promises, which makes it very easy for me to recommend it, because I know of the benefits to everyone. The business grows nicely and no I am not making 35k a month (yet). I know over the next years they income will get more and more and I see as one of many income streams that I have.

One thing I learned it is best not to put all eggs into one basket. And yes I personally know someone who makes consistently 30k + a month.

[borntosucceed]

Originally Posted by kf4qhk

I know the top of these "pyramids" typically

Sorry for the second post, just wanted to comment on the pyramids as well. Most corporations have a strict pyramid system. The person on the top earns a lot of money, there more people in the next level still earning plenty of money. When it comes to the actual workers in the company, they earn much less and have only small opportunities to increase in rank.

A good MLM company offers a compensation plan where everyone is equal and has the same opportunity to earn more money than the people that joined long before him/her.

[ConquerSelf]

Originally Posted by Lucas

While I appreciate your view, I think you have mistaken the business model. The business model is one based on distribution, not getting everyone to buy your product. You are looking for a few key people that will bring in a big amount of distributors. As for providing no value, I am not sure where you get that. I provide a tremendous amount of value and positive energy to the people I network with, and network marketing is all about people, and I can guarantee you 100% that the people who are making $35,000 a month, are the ones thinking the least about what they are going to get out of it, and more about what they can do to help other people.

I have not been involved in MLM myself, nor will I ever. That should tell you just about how much I know about it.

But really, how do you honestly see yourself providing any value to people? These independent business owners, as they call themsleves, 'network' with others and get them to hop on the MLM train. Which of course, then becomes income.

I don't know, it seems like something for a not-so-savvy entrepreneur who doesn't have the balls to create something unique on their own. No thanks, I can survive and thrive on my own.

[borntosucceed]

What would you do if you have two identical products, doing exactly the same, one being sold through a big corporation, the other one through a friend of yours at the same price?

I assume many people still prefer to buy the product from the larger company with the big advertisement budget increasing their profit rather than their friend because she/he is involved with an "unethical pyramid scheme".

Here is an interesting story for this: http://www.thegoyinblog.com/2008/07/mike-and-petrol-station.html

[cardano]

I've never personally committed to MLM, but I've been introduced to some of the company, where I researched a couple of them. Take it as it is:

It seems the best way to profit from MLM is to start when the company is still young. Let's use an example:

Someone earns $35,000/month. MLM has different payment plans (usually ~7) where I'd say the biggest earner is building the network. One MLM I've been introduced to divide each level per 3 people. Each person commits about $250 per month to reorder supplies for self consumption or advertising to prospective clients.

For simplicity's sake, say each person under you can earn you $5. To earn $35,000/month requires about 8 levels deep: $5x3^8. Assume by that time the product has saturated. Imagine if you came mid-late and was only able to get 3 levels deep, that would only earn you $135 ($5x3^3). Thus if you paid $250 per month per product and only net $135, you lose $115 monthly.

My friend once started an MLM only 2 years after the product was launched but had a hard time selling it. I'd believe he profited but it wasn't much.

-Steve Z.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by ConquerSelf

I have not been involved in MLM myself, nor will I ever. That should tell you just about how much I know about it.

But really, how do you honestly see yourself providing any value to people? These independent business owners, as they call themsleves, 'network' with others and get them to hop on the MLM train. Which of course, then becomes income.

I don't know, it seems like something for a not-so-savvy entrepreneur who doesn't have the balls to create something unique on their own. No thanks, I can survive and thrive on my own.

Understandable, so you know then, absolutely nothing about the MLM industry?

How does anyone provide value to other people? You find people with which the product or service you have, gets them the results they are looking for. It works on anything you create or sell, yours or otherwise. And value is a relative thing.

A diet/weight loss program - for people who want the results of lost weight/increased muscle

Life Coach - People who want the result of more direction in their lives.

Car manufacturers - People who want the result of getting to and from the places they want to be.


There are two different facets to mlm, a product or service, and a business opportunity. You have to sort who wants to leverage your product and who is interested in building a business. You don't network someone "into" your business. Trying to convince someone to be in MLM just makes more work then you ever need. Having to convince someone to start up means you'll have to convince them to keep at it, convince them to network, convince convince, convince. Not a productive use of time.

As for the "not-so-savvy entrepreneur", well, that sounds to me like a low brow pot shot. Most savvy entrepreneurs I know, realize that you really don't do everything in a business alone. In fact, the bigger your team, the bigger your income. Sure, that team can come from your rolodex, people you hire or partners, but rarely does anyone achieve their dreams alone.


Now that I gave you my views, and of course thats all they are, can you tell me how it is you provide exponentially more value to your network than us second rate business owners?

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by cardano

Let's use an example:

Someone earns $35,000/month. MLM has different payment plans (usually ~7) where I'd say the biggest earner is building the network. One MLM I've been introduced to divide each level per 3 people. Each person commits about $250 per month to reorder supplies for self consumption or advertising to prospective clients.

For simplicity's sake, say each person under you can earn you $5. To earn $35,000/month requires about 8 levels deep: $5x3^8. Assume by that time the product has saturated. Imagine if you came mid-late and was only able to get 3 levels deep, that would only earn you $135 ($5x3^3). Thus if you paid $250 per month per product and only net $135, you lose $115 monthly.

My friend once started an MLM only 2 years after the product was launched but had a hard time selling it. I'd believe he profited but it wasn't much.

Is this compensation plan from a specific company, or are you you just doing random math that works for your example?

Of course building a team is going to net you better results because of the leveraging of time and effort.

Your friend having a hard time selling a product is not indicative of the business model, nor the company he was working for.

[ConquerSelf]

Originally Posted by Lucas

Understandable, so you know then, absolutely nothing about the MLM industry?

How does anyone provide value to other people? You find people with which the product or service you have, gets them the results they are looking for. It works on anything you create or sell, yours or otherwise. And value is a relative thing.

A diet/weight loss program - for people who want the results of lost weight/increased muscle

Life Coach - People who want the result of more direction in their lives.

Car manufacturers - People who want the result of getting to and from the places they want to be.


There are two different facets to mlm, a product or service, and a business opportunity. You have to sort who wants to leverage your product and who is interested in building a business. You don't network someone "into" your business. Trying to convince someone to be in MLM just makes more work then you ever need. Having to convince someone to start up means you'll have to convince them to keep at it, convince them to network, convince convince, convince. Not a productive use of time.

As for the "not-so-savvy entrepreneur", well, that sounds to me like a low brow pot shot. Most savvy entrepreneurs I know, realize that you really don't do everything in a business alone. In fact, the bigger your team, the bigger your income. Sure, that team can come from your rolodex, people you hire or partners, but rarely does anyone achieve their dreams alone.


Now that I gave you my views, and of course thats all they are, can you tell me how it is you provide exponentially more value to your network than us second rate business owners?

I know almost nothing about it. But I also don't care to learn, either. And thus, my opinion is neutral on it. Then again, I'm the type of person who seeks to create things on my own, or I won't do something at all. I understand MLM requires some people skills, but my opinion is that people who get into MLM lack the capability do something on their own.

[ConquerSelf]

And listen, don't take it personally. I'm not hating either, it's what I think about it. All that matters is if you believe in what you're doing.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by ConquerSelf

And listen, don't take it personally. I'm not hating either, it's what I think about it. All that matters is if you believe in what you're doing.

No thats fine, I hope I didn't come off as evangelizing either. I think its a great business model, but isnt for everyone.

Heres my final thought. For a ridiculously small startup cost, usually 500 dollars or less, you can have your own business. Everything is sussed out for you except distribution. Legal, payroll, finance, product development, compensation plan, even marketing tools and strategies. You show people your business op, and then show them how to do what you are doing.

It takes work, on your business and yourself, but is a phenomenal way to learn all kinds of business skills and running a business, without opening a brick and mortar store, and without having to wait 5 years or more to profit (took me less than 5 months on the first business I ever started), and to boot it is a residual income.

The only downside that I have ever found is that there is no guarantee of success, but where is there one?

[cardano]

Originally Posted by Lucas

Is this compensation plan from a specific company, or are you you just doing random math that works for your example?

This is from a specific company. The numbers have been modified slightly for simplicity and matching the 35k example.

Originally Posted by Lucas

Your friend having a hard time selling a product is not indicative of the business model, nor the company he was working for.

He's not, I'm just listing how a product can start becoming saturated within a couple years, as I heard about it before when he introduced it to me.

As I said, I haven't committed to an MLM company but only been introduced to them where I researched the payment structures. Take it as it is.

Personally, the reason I haven't gotten into MLM is because I am already running a self sustaining business.

[Brutha]

It seems the best way to profit from MLM is to start when the company is still young.

You assume that most companies are still around much latter after the company started. That a huge fault in your reasoning.

For simplicity's sake, say each person under you can earn you $5. To earn $35,000/month requires about 8 levels deep: $5x3^8. Assume by that time the product has saturated.

Is that actually a joke?
The weigh loss market is very far from being saturated by herbalife or another MLM. That doesn't mean necessarly that they will continue to grow, but I would think that there are people who want to lose weight who never even heard of it.
Depeding on how good the people are at selling the herbalife products, it both possible that there will be more people who buy herbalife products or less as a share of the big weight loss market.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by cardano

He's not, I'm just listing how a product can start becoming saturated within a couple years, as I heard about it before when he introduced it to me.

As I said, I haven't committed to an MLM company but only been introduced to them where I researched the payment structures. Take it as it is.

Personally, the reason I haven't gotten into MLM is because I am already running a self sustaining business.

I appreciate where you are coming from, but I just don't believe that market saturation is as big of a factor as you are making it out to be. The advantage that Network Marketing has is that people generally WANT to do business with friends and people they trust. Say your brother is in PrePaid Legal and you have some legal issues, who are you more likely to go to first? Just because there are other products out there, doesn't mean there is no room for the others.

Market Saturation is a myth, why are there still different bestselling diet books each year, or new models of cars being produced, or anything new in "saturated" markets?

[lilbit]

Originally Posted by Interpreneur

3 bullets right out of the Amway/Quixtar bible (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Ha ha! No doubt!