Reasons not to go to college

[Lupe]

Will Blog for Food: 10 Reasons Not to Go to College

Number 3 and 10 of the 10 arguments were compelling.

What is very true is that you can teach yourself what is being taught in University by yourself via the Internet, and you can skip the unnecessary details that University forces you to study, etc.

Steve Pavlina didn't stay in calculus class to listen to the inefficient, slow lectures. (but I guess he still paid for the class--unfortunately, a sacrifice to the world's inefficient system)

So I was wondering, wouldn't it be better to not go to college if you don't really care much about money and just learn from the Internet what you want to learn?

What is Steve's view on going to college or not?

[ganbare112]

I would agree that in the 21st Century, going to college is definitely not necessary. But at the same time that is not to say there is no value to getting a college degree. It really depends on the goals, the personality and the amount of money the individual has to spend on their education.

Personally I worked really hard in high school so that I could get into one of America's top universities. Fortunately the school I attended was generously endowed enabling me to finish four years of college, despite financial paucity, with only 15k in federal loans.

As everything in life is an investment, the question of whether or not it is worth it to go to school depends on one's investment objectives and outlook. For example, if I had to pay full price to attend my university, something like $200,000 over four years, I would have declined to matriculate. For $200,000 I could go to a much cheaper school and invest the rest of the money and, with luck and sound investing principles, could probably make a nice return off it.

But that's just looking at a college education as a monetary investment. It is more over, an investment in one's social, spiritual, and mental well being. As most of my peers would agree, college is all about the people. There are few times in one's life where you get to sit and debate ethics or study medieval literature; when else in your life would you have the opportunity to speak with thousands of people your age who are, like yourself, exploring ideas and ways of living. For me college was rewarding in that it helped me develop into a more well rounded individual with four years of diverse life experiences from which I can draw.

Now that is not to say one couldn't have those experiences outside of college, but I believe the chances of having such a diverse and enriching experience with your peers is much higher as a college student.

If you have the dedication, ambition and intelligence on par with Steve, then you probably don't need college to be financially successful. But there is much more to life than monetary success. College can also be a lot of fun and why shouldn't you allow yourself four years of a potentially engaging, fun and rewarding experience that may also benefit you financially.

Plus, if the only factor in deciding whether or not to go to college is money and you think you have the discipline and hard work to get a good education without going to college, you might as well apply for a scholarship and go.

If you hate it or think it is a waste of your time, you can always drop out! But in my honest opinion I think there are so many things that you can't learn through the library or the internet. With college you are putting yourself in an environment where you can build up a number of skills all at the same time.

Hope this was helpful!

[missing]

As Ganbare notes, the college experience can be very valuable from a personal growth perspective. HOWEVER the loans many have to take out go a long way towards dispelling the myth that it's a good financial investment. Inflation has ruined the value of a degree, yet we have a system that looks down on those who don't get one. It's a way of "paying into the system", and most pay dearly. My feeling is that in the somewhat near future many students are going to default on their debts. We're headed towards the same kind of thing we've seen with the housing market. There just aren't enough high paying jobs around to make the debt for a college degree worth it.

Bottom line, college is great if you can afford it. But is it worth selling your future freedom in the form of massive debt?

[Brutha]

It really depends on your goals.
If you want to archieve a breaktrough in astrophysics you should definitly go to college, otherwise nobody will listen to you.
What do you want out of life?

[Faron]

To tell you the truth, I think college is overrated. I went to college for 4 years did very well and was supposed to be above the norm when looking for my first job. But guess what? there are 1000's of other people with economic degrees looking for the same type of work. Some courses will help you such as engineering and business but if you are in social sciences, arts or sciences, good luck findind a job in your field or that pays well. My rant is over, back to my great jpaying ob that has nothing to do with my degree.

[Faron]

I also forgot to mention that class schedules are posted online for all to see and classes are so big that you can attend without a problem. A person really willing to learn can go to college for free, but they won't get that little piece of paper.

[Love]

This guy seems really angry and jaded to me. He does not sound like someone I would want to take advice from. If he seemed half-way intellectual about it, I might listen. But he lost me on number one, when he mentioned "poor black kids" and how their dreams would be burst, college or no college. Dork.

As for #3 and #10-you can definitely teach yourself some subject matters. You can teach yourself either in or outside of college. Will you learn everything the same as if you were in a class? Me, I prefer seeing someone, moving around, interacting with other people, but that isn't necessary; it depends on what is most important to you.
I know that I found that getting to know professors was one of the perks of college. You got to meet them, and sit down, and have them help you with your goals. I think that's wonderful. I also think part of the college experience is learning from other people your own age and hearing what they have to say about the world.

I also think that college can be very affordable. If you go to a local college (within your city), you may only have to pay $4,000 a year, or if at a state college, perhaps twice as much. Even if you go to an expensive school (I did) they can be really generous with financial aid packages. I came out with 8,000 in debt. If you're in the middle income bracket, plan ahead, search for some scholarships, get a job, and don't go to a really expensive school.

If you're debating the issue, I would go spec at a school for two days--or at least overnight (they'll have a student put you up) and see what it's all about. If it's for you, okay, and if not, that's okay too.

[schola]

Well! As a college student myself...I have to say I totally agree.

I like #3 the most. #4 proved to be a dud, but 9/10 ain't bad.

[Tasaio]

I also forgot to mention that class schedules are posted online for all to see and classes are so big that you can attend without a problem. A person really willing to learn can go to college for free, but they won't get that little piece of paper.

Yes, I very much agree. I wish I had audited classes for free, instead of spending $5000 to try them out.

In the past, I have recommended that prospective students audit courses before spending money on them. Ask yourself honestly, "Could I learn in this environment?" The answer for me was...no.

But I only came up with this answer after sinking two years and a lot of money into an expensive degree, at a prestigious univerisity.

Fortunately, I saw sense early enough to pull out and acknowledge the truth: I didn't want to be there. In fact, I *HATED* being there!

I've been doing independent learning for the past few years, and love it. I've made some money, too. My student debt is small enough that it should be paid off, soon.

Here's a great post:

Honestly, college may be too structured and limited scope for some people. If you know your passion, and you're 100% committed to converting your vision into your reality, then go for it.

School is a "safety net" you don't need. What will that degree get you? A job which you don't want and credibility which you don't need (in your case).

Ultimately what you'll find is that listening to everyone's perspectives will not change the way you truly feel about the situation. Listen to your own inner voice and make the decision that is best for you and never look back. If it was a mistake, you will find out someday. But you couldn't have figured it out without deciding to drop out in the first place.

(from To Drop out of college and pursue my dream??)

[sheffy4]

I agree that for many people, college is a waste of time and money. I could definitely tell that most people in my college classes couldn't give a damn about the content we were learning, but then there were always a couple people in class who started interesting debates and discussions on the topic, as well as teachers who encourage this kind of thing.
For me, I think college was the way to go. I enjoy meeting lots of diverse people in an environment where it's not necessarily nerdy to talk about literature, science, and politics.
I disagree with #9 on the list:
9. College trains you to be a docile and compliant employee.
This is only true if you act like a docile and compliant employee, which is usually the behavior of students who don't care about what they are learning, they just want to get the grade and get out, so they don't absorb anything valuable from the class. Personally, many college classes have taught me to think creatively, be daring with my ideas, and don't be afraid to challenge the ideas of others. Professors (good ones anyway), want their students to have original, interesting arguments about things. They get bored hearing the same old text book stuff parroted back by their students. (Ok, I guess this is only true of classes that are not math, science, and that sort of thing)
Plus, I think college students generally have better social skills, or are at least more comfortable in a social environment, than those who don't go to college. Of course there are probably lots of really social un-college educated people, but I just find that many of them associate with the same people for years on end, and never seem to advance and meet more interesting friends.
All of this said, I do think that paying all that money for a social experience is ridiculous, but I don't regret going to college, so for me I guess the classes and the friends and professors I met were worth the money.

[Ak47]

Unfortunately, that piece of paper does make it more likely that you will get a job, and does make it more likely you will succeed. No, not all college graduates will get a good job and succeed, but bit their odds are much, much higher given they choose to study in a feild that has a high demand for workers.

What else can i say? We live in a credential society.

[hkalchemy]

There are certainly some compelling reasons not to go to college. I work in education but as the years go by I am more and more inclined to think that what we are doing in our schools and colleges is really outdated and irrelevant. We need a change of paradigm - we need to teach what really matters and what students actually need to thrive in the real world instead of the same old stuff we were teaching a hundred years ago. Maybe it was relevant then, but not any more.

Having said this, it's hard to play the game of getting a 'good' middle class job without a degree. But then again, maybe that's not what you want...

[sunj]

He's got some good points and some bad. I think he's ranting because he went to college and it didn't amount to anything for him. It's understandable. I didn't learn anything in college either. I knew what I wanted to do and I had learned how to do it before going to college for it. So I pretty much winged college. I'm glad I did .

I'm more concerned about kids going into college and they don't know what they want to do. So they waste time and money taking some classes for 2 years not knowing what they want to major in or what they like doing. After that they just decide to do whatever their friends are doing or just major in Business Administration. I would ask people in college what they are majoring in and they would say "I don't know." My response would be "Then what the **** are you doing here?". Of course I would say that in my head, not out loud.

Those kids are going to college because their parents want them to or because society says it's important. It's not wrong to do that, but they need to know what they want to do in life.

I really think we need to do away with 2 years of high school. And cut college down to 2 years also. There shouldn't be that many lecture classes. There should be 50% lecture and 50% hands on. By hands on I mean you do stuff that you would do if you where hired by someone in that field.

I was at SuperCuts a few weeks ago and I was chatting with hair stylist as she was cutting my hair. She told me that her friend loved being a hair stylist so much that she didn't even go to college and just started her own shop. She's making 6 figures.

[sheffy4]

Originally Posted by hkalchemy

There are certainly some compelling reasons not to go to college. I work in education but as the years go by I am more and more inclined to think that what we are doing in our schools and colleges is really outdated and irrelevant. We need a change of paradigm - we need to teach what really matters and what students actually need to thrive in the real world instead of the same old stuff we were teaching a hundred years ago. Maybe it was relevant then, but not any more.

This is one of the reasons I stopped training to become a secondary ed teacher. The schools teach you that the purpose of education is to create effective citizens of a democracy, but that is such a joke. Middle and high school classes are not relevant, and they don't even give the kids a good understanding of the content, even if it's not relevant. I really wish there would be more classes on government, politics, and how to actually be an effective citizen of a democracy, as well as classes on money management, which even kids in college are in dire need of learning.
I almost wish it was like the olden days when you learned something by apprenticeship. You would learn the trade extremely thoroughly, become an expert, and then you could offer value to the world and make a living. This Renaissance style of learning we have in school is out of date, and I think kids should be able to pick specific tracks of interest so they can focus and actually become experts on something, instead of a "well-rounded" jack-of-no-trades.

[Plato]

I disagree. Higher education is a fantastic thing. Being able to talk to some of the best people in their respective fields is a privilege. If lectures seem slow, what will be even slower is managing to get a balanced perspective on the field you go into on your own, since you will be going in as a relative beginner. Being obliged to study stuff that at times *seems* irrelevant can turn out very useful in the end. Besides, to suppose that something is irrelevant requires you to have a better understanding of what is important than your lecturer. As a beginner you don't! Afterwards you can branch off, until then perhaps it's wise to be the good student.

Also the college experience is something you'll never get again. And it's awesome.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by sheffy4

I think kids should be able to pick specific tracks of interest so they can focus and actually become experts on something, instead of a "well-rounded" jack-of-no-trades.

I don't know much about the system in America but in the UK most people pick a subject at 18 which they study exclusively for 3 years. I think that is specific enough at this early stage.

[Lupe]

Originally Posted by Faron

To tell you the truth, I think college is overrated. I went to college for 4 years did very well and was supposed to be above the norm when looking for my first job. But guess what? there are 1000's of other people with economic degrees looking for the same type of work. Some courses will help you such as engineering and business but if you are in social sciences, arts or sciences, good luck findind a job in your field or that pays well. My rant is over, back to my great jpaying ob that has nothing to do with my degree.

Could you tell what your job that has nothing to do with your degree is and how you got it despite it is not related to your degree?

[Lupe]

Originally Posted by hkalchemy

Having said this, it's hard to play the game of getting a 'good' middle class job without a degree. But then again, maybe that's not what you want...

Yes I don't want a 'good' middle class job. I would be satisfied with having a less than blue-collar job.

[schola]

There are a lot of good reasons to go or not go, but ultimately it is a personal matter. You have to ask yourself, "Am I going to college for a good reason? Is getting a college education aligned with my intentions and goals?" If you are just there because you think you should be there or because the 'rents want you to be there, it is not really a good reason.

In my experience, there are a lot of kids at my college who are wasting their time. They're not interested and just going through the motions. Ultimately it becomes a $80,000 excuse to party way too much.

College should not be for everyone. Some people don't need it and some people just aren't cut out for it.

[schola]

Originally Posted by Plato

Being able to talk to some of the best people in their respective fields is a privilege.

Shoot. What school do you go to? I'm not sure most colleges can have the best since that would mean they aren't the best anymore, right? Statistically, most colleges would have mediocre professors then.

For me it has been a mixed bag. I've had some brilliant profs, but I have also had professors that were the most closed minded individuals I have ever known.

Some of the best teachers I have had in college weren't at my university but at the community colleges I attended.

[pianoperformer]

I'm on the fence about it. For me college isn't only about the academics, though, because they provide many opportunities to grow socially and become interested in other things you may not have otherwise considered.

It is rather expensive, though, and I see way too many students who don't care enough. IMO, if you attend college, you shouldn't be getting below a 3.0.

[Ponce]

10th grade education, 123 IQ as tested by Mensa (116 & 118 US army), machinest with a job all the time, garage inventor that made money........retired and happy.

To me college is only the frame or skeleton that later on you fill with the meat of knowledge......even if my English still sucks I am able to talk to you just about anything..........and like I like to say " is not what you know but what you do with what you know ".

Why have a great education if you are always broke and with no time to do what you really would like to do?........ I just adapted a 10.5 HP engine to the back of my small pick up with a torque converter going to the drive shaft that I activate at 55 MPH and with this conbination I am getting 86 MPG.

Next thing is to replace the torque converter to one that engages faster and that way the engine RPM will be lower hence saving more gas... will see.

Sounds simple but is not, it took me two days to design the whole thing in my mind before building it.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by ganbare112

But that's just looking at a college education as a monetary investment. It is more over, an investment in one's social, spiritual, and mental well being. As most of my peers would agree, college is all about the people. There are few times in one's life where you get to sit and debate ethics or study medieval literature; when else in your life would you have the opportunity to speak with thousands of people your age who are, like yourself, exploring ideas and ways of living. For me college was rewarding in that it helped me develop into a more well rounded individual with four years of diverse life experiences from which I can draw.

Now that is not to say one couldn't have those experiences outside of college, but I believe the chances of having such a diverse and enriching experience with your peers is much higher as a college student.

I don't agree with these points. Both college life and working life are what you make of them. Your social life is what you make of it, and not a passive product of your environment like being in college (enrolling in college courses does not guarantee you a social life). You can have an incredible and enriching social life without actually enrolling in college courses. The people with the most active social lives I know are not in college--they are young bartenders or waitresses.

By the way, as a philosophy major I have to say that discussing ethics with a bunch of unkempt hippies in my college classes is getting boring. The real discussions occur online or at events such as Philosopher's Cafe, which is open to any age.

Go to college to get a qualification because the government forces you to have the said qualification to work in the field (doctor, nurse, lawyer, teacher). Otherwise, your merit and skills alone are enough. You can also have a better social life (by putting in some effort) and an even more philosophically broadening experience by being an autodidact.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Ponce

10th grade education, 123 IQ as tested by Mensa (116 & 118 US army), machinest with a job all the time, garage inventor that made money........retired and happy.

Just to add some even greater examples:

My grandmother came from India alone with 4 years of education (grade 1-4) in her teens. Her school didn't even have chalkboards--they wrote in the sand. She speaks 5 languages, is financially successful, and raised 6 children.

Her second cousin (by law) came from India with about the same level of education. He sold his lumber milling business for over 200 million dollars about 15 years ago, after starting it here in Canada and building it over the decades. I don't know how much had to be paid in loans, but he's still mega-loaded.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by Plato

I disagree. Higher education is a fantastic thing. Being able to talk to some of the best people in their respective fields is a privilege.

Most people never actually speak to those professors--they get a lecture from them. A series of lectures that are probably less in depth than the man's book(s) that you could pick up at the library. And you'll be lucky if the leading researchers are actually teaching more than one class per semester--usually the college hires them for the money they get in research grants, and has them publishing all the time.

If you are not enrolled in the college, and you wish to speak to one of these individuals, it is still completely possible. It's not like having a college transcript is a VIP backstage pass.

Here's an exercise: Write down a list of the 5 people you would most like to meet in the next year and seek out meeting them. You'll probably find it won't matter whether or not you are enrolled in college.

[Dave Kaminski]

Originally Posted by schola

Some of the best teachers I have had in college weren't at my university but at the community colleges I attended.

Community college professors seem to be business owners or people who are in their fields more often than the professors I ran into when I was in university as well...

[Ponce]

Lol Scipio.........love it......... while I am not THAT rich I do have all that I need therefore in a way I am as rich as he is.

What makes a person "rich" is having no debts so that you can enjoy your money as you wish and not by given it to others so that they can do it.

Is not what you have but what you do with what you do have.

[Captain Cloudchaser]

To be honest, I think going to college/university is a great experience that will help sharpen and develop your mind, but only if you want to put the effort into it and know what you want to study.

How many kids at 18 know what they want out of life? Know what career they want? I know I didn't have a clue. In the UK, Mature Students are becoming more popular and welcomed because they have lived, they have experienced different things and they go to college/uni because they know what they want and will work hard to get it. I'm not saying that there aren't any teenagers like that, but I think it would actually be better to get some job and life experience before going to college and leaving it til a bit later. I've seen people in their 80's going back to college, so it's not something that is dependent on age!

I do think college would be a great experience in knowledge fulfillment, although obviously it depends on what exactly you want to learn.